UT LE Archery Elk

[stacknitup]

Ok... there has been a lot of debate on here about the best elk units for Utah, but not much talk for archery. What do we all think? What about the units in the southern half of the state: Southwest desert, Pauns, Beaver, Dutton, Boulders, ect... I figure that I might have a good chance at drawing a tag this year, and I am thinking a lot about the Southwest desert, Beaver and Pauns. units. Help me out. I have spent time on all three.

 

[ktc]

I know what I would NOT do. I would not archery hunt Dutton. That is my honest opinion.

 

[nochawk]

PM Sent

 

[logslinger]

Ktc whats wrong with Dutton? From other people's posts that drew that unit last year they sounded like they had good hunts with good bulls just no monsters.

 

[huntinfanatic]

dont even think about doing tha Pauns. unless u have alot of time to go scouting. very tuff hunt let alone with a bow.

 

[SHEDSTALKER]

You've got to go with the area you know best and where you have the elk patterned the best. All those units have the potential to produce big bulls, but it comes down to what you know and a bit of luck at times. A little pre-season scouting never hurts either.

 

[ktc]

log,

I spent 3 straight years down there and worked with some bow hunters exchanging info. It just seems on Dutton those elk are very finicky about bugling? Most of the guys I know came home empty. They also came home physically beat up. I would not recommend it and that is as honest as I can be. Not sure what it is, but that place does not seem very bow friendly. Toss in the dates and terrain and I would not do it. Rifle yes, bow no.

That is just my opinion. Some here wont agree and that is fine. It can be done but I dont think things are in your favor. To me it is long range gunning and horse country. If I had to have Dutton and hunt with a bow I would get the premium tag.

 

[logslinger]

Thanks KTC that seems to shed a little more light on the unit for me.If you talk to the one guy in 50 that had a good hunt sometimes it gives you the impression that everyone should have.

 

[jims]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-27-09 AT 08:17AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-27-09 AT 08:15?AM (MST)

I would 2nd the things KTC says above plus add a few extra comments. You better have a gob of vacation days saved up and be willing to hike your buttocks off if you are going to archery hunt Dutton or any LE unit! Just like any other archery elk hunt all the pieces have to come together to be successful w/bow. Obviously this may take a lot of days in the field. Guys that spend the entire season hunting, hunt more remote locations, and are in the field from dawn to dusk are likely the guys that are more successful. You have to be mighty lucky for everything to fall into place to get a 330+ bull w/bow in any LE Utah unit! If you remember back to the guy that posted about his Monroe archery hunt, his hunt is common in any LE archery hunt.

Dutton happens to have a lot of isolated steep, nasty stuff so it makes it that much tougher. The less steep and accessible country obviously gets hammered a lot harder than the more isolated and verticle stuff.

One thing not mentioned is all the traffic that occurs on LE units during the archery hunt. With the increase in LE tags these hunts aren't nearly as good "quality" as they were 4 to 6 years ago. Generally speaking there are gobs of non-hunting guys scouting for rifle and muzzy season as well as the gobs of "helpers" that come along to assist archery hunters. Add to the hunting pressure will be all the spike hunters this coming year. Giant bulls often sense this and often hang low during the early rut and archery season..often it may be the younger bulls that expose themselves a little more during the archery season.

It can be super warm during the archery season and believe me this affects how active the bulls are. They will likely still come to wallows but may not be active very many hours during daylight and may not bugle as much except during rainy or cooler days (which may or may not happen). These things would be true in any LE archery unit but the nice thing about archery is the draw odds are a little easier to draw.

 

[Utah400Elk]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-27-09 AT 11:47AM (MST)[p] I agree with KTC about the Dutton. I hunted it last year on archery. A few things that have not been mentioned are very important.

The Sheep SUCK. A local sheep herder, who happens to be very friendly, moved a couple thousand sheep (I have been told it was over 5000) through the top of Deer Creek, North and South Deep Creek, Pine Creek and Forest Creek. This was during the archery hunt. Just moving that many sheep does affect the elk but add to that the sheep herders ridding horses around the sheep all day and shooting off guns to keep the bears away from the sheep. By the way there are a LOT of bears on the Dutton. This also greatly affected the elk. Then the Coup de gr?ce was the government trapper who was called into the area to kill the bears who had been killing the sheep. The guy ran hounds through Deer Creek, North and South Deep Creek, Pine Creek and Forest Creek. He ended up Killing two bears.

I don't know if it was a bad year as far as bears but I have been told the Sheep thing happens every year. The people I know who killed elk on the Dutton (years previous to 2008) were very lucky. One guy thought it was an easy hunt because he had a 370 + bull run in front of him. He was ridding his quad and a big bull ran across the road. He killed it and tells everybody what a pig shoot the Dutton is. Another friend killed a great bull on a wallow. As it turns out, he hunted hard, but the bull hitting that wallow was luck. He had not seen the bull all season and he had given up on the wallow and was walking away talking when he looked up and saw a 380 bull walking to the wallow. He killed it, but as I said he was walking away from the wallow talking when the bull showed up.

Between 2007 and 2008 the wallow locations must have been given out on a web page because every wallow I located had a least one trail camera. Most had two or three.

Even as road less and inaccessible as the Dutton is I saw people everywhere. I think the added spike hunters will only hurt the number of people. As it was, I had numerous archery deer hunters walking all over the mountain using the Hocie Mama to see the big bulls. I herd more people calling than elk calling.

The Dutton is a beautiful place and I would hunt it again in a second but I would be going in with my eyes wide open. I hunted an area with GREAT bulls with a chance a great hunt and I now wish I had used my points to hunt an area that had a great hunt with a chance at a big bull. Not sure if that makes sense but that is my thoughts.

 

[browtine]

Save your points and use a rifle or Muzz.. Th archery hunt in Utah is waaaaay to early.

Later, Brandon

 

[AndymanSavage]

I am at the same point. I have 9 elk points and have always put in for ML. I am thinking of doing archery this year and taking the whole hunt off to be in the field. I have heard that the second week is better for bulls starting to get "rutty". I am still on the fence though, because I am just a couple years from a muzzy tag. I guess it is a risk either way, but with the bow tag, at least I can be hunting in the near future.

PS- I usually put in for Dutton, boulder, or the books.


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http://andymansavage.blogspot.com/

 

[jims]

One thing you guys may want to remember is a lot of guys may convert over to applying for a muzzy tag after giving up on trying for a rifle tag? The draw odds may be a lot worse this year with all the publicity that the muzzy seasons seem to be getting! I haven't kept up on how many tags they are issuing but this may change to compensate for more guys applying? One thing for sure the quality of UT bulls is in jeopardy with the number of tags they are issuing! A lot of guys are trying to draw a tag rather than just applying for pts...while the getting is ok!

 

[AndymanSavage]

>One thing you guys may want
>to remember is a lot
>of guys may convert over
>to applying for a muzzy
>tag after giving up on
>trying for a rifle tag?
> The draw odds may
>be a lot worse this
>year with all the publicity
>that the muzzy seasons seem
>to be getting! I
>haven't kept up on how
>many tags they are issuing
>but this may change to
>compensate for more guys applying?
> One thing for sure
>the quality of UT bulls
>is in jeopardy with the
>number of tags they are
>issuing! A lot of
>guys are trying to draw
>a tag rather than just
>applying for pts...while the getting
>is ok!

I have thought the same thing. As good as muzzleloaders are getting these days, anyone can learn to shoot pretty easily. Even if 15% of the rifle guys apply for muzzy tags, I am out 5 more years. That's one of the reasons I am also considering jumping to archery.......I just with the dates were better!


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http://andymansavage.blogspot.com/

 

[ktc]

You bow guys are going to give me hell for this, but I have to respectfully disagree on the dates. Would the same length 2 weeks later be better for you guys? Yes, I think so, but not to the extent one would believe. I was hunting during the "peak" or so it is called and on Dutton they never got going. Not during rifle. Not during Muzz, they just never get going real well. I have said this 100 times, I did not hear one bugle in 07 from the 10th-17th. Also, these bulls seem very call shy. I know some guys here can bugle them in, but I never saw any called in but a few dinks.

Toss in all the bad about Utah archery on top of Dutton being a very tough unit and I just dont care for that combination at all. This is just my opinion. I think people think I am trying to keep them away and I am not cuz I dont care. Some guys like it and some guys have done well down there, but......

I am just trying to give you some stuff to think about. I am no pro, but I did experience some time on the unit.

 

[SHEDSTALKER]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-27-09 AT 03:32PM (MST)[p]ktc, I respect your opinion and that may be the case with the Dutton as each unit and herd may have different characterisitcs or evironmental stiumli imposing upon their attitude or behavior, but where I hunt, it makes a huge differnce! Every year, the elk get going the last 2 days of the season and other than that, you hear the occasional bugle, but nothin too intense. However, if colder conditions arrive earlier, this tends to kickstart the rut, so it is dependant on seasonality in my opinion and having those 2 additional or later season weeks would be very beneficial in my unit since cold spells or cool thunderstorms have not been occuring much in recent years.

 

[jims]

I know I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out a strategy for drawing my LE UT elk tag. Only time will tell what happens to bull quality. I know I was a little spooked hearing rumors of Utah increasing tag numbers and decreasing the average age structure of the bulls harvested. There is a dramatic different between 3 to 4 year old bulls and 7 to 9 year old bulls as far as body size and antler growth!

When I thought about it I tried to figure out whether I wanted to draw a tag and hunt archery with a pretty good chance of going home without a bull or waiting several years and maybe draw a muzzy tag, or waiting a bunch more years to draw a rifle tag. Each had it's good and bad points. I decided I wanted a little better chance of harvesting an elk so steered clear of the archery hunt. If last year was any indication of what is happening to the quality of bulls in UT, I am certainly glad I jumped on an easier draw tag with a chance of getting a whopper!

With that said, I hope Utah gets their act together so everyone has the same chance to hunt world class bulls that I had! Increasing the number bull tags, spike tags, decreasing age status, etc....it isn't looking good! If you want to hunt dink to mediocre bulls come to Colo!

 

[ktc]

SS,

I dont doubt you at all. Dutton was pretty strange as far as rut and bugles go for some reason? I know during the Any Weapon I would not have wanted a bow in my hand. No way.

 

[jims]

Shedstalker, I saw the same thing the last 2 seasons. During cold snaps, rain showers, etc the elk were fairly active. Another factor that many hunters overlook is moon phase. There was night and day diffences in elk activity during full vs no moon phases in the 2 seasons I've been on Dutton. The combination of weather, moon phase, hunting pressure, etc dictates a lot in regard to elk rut and activity. This year was hot, full moon, and lots of human activity during rifle season so what do you think the elk were doing? Poor hunting conditions mean hunters take more days to harvest! Great hunting conditions where hunters shoot bulls and head back to town make it easier for everyone.

If you haven't checked it out yet, next year during the early rifle season is almost 0 moon. If there is cool weather during the early rifle season I can guarantee the elk will be going nuts! There will be close to full moon next year during the muzzy season so if it is hot it may be a super tough muzzy season. 2 muzzy seasons ago it was full moon and downright hot and very tough hunting.

 

[stacknitup]

I too am wondering what to do with it all. Do I stay on the path for the rifle tag and wait it out for another 10 years for the more premiere units, not knowing what will happen with the elk on these units due to the new DWR rules? I just think that if you are an experienced archer and know the unit and work hard in pre-scouting that archery seems more appealing due to the time to draw. Me one or two more years, Elk herds still somewhat good. I feel two many ifs on waiting for an rifle tag in the near future. But who knows with the draw. I thought that I would draw a turkey tag this year with 2 bonus points and with all of the tags available, but nope shot down again....

 

[sharpstick]

I drew the Wasatch Archery two years ago and if I had it to do over again I'd look for another unit that's further from the Wasatch front. I was constantly running into spike hunters, horseback riders, hikers with their dogs, and just half of the city people. It wasn't a good experience until the last few days of the hunt when the testosterone took over and the bulls actually started bugling. Tough hunt and since my sights were on a bull over 320, I ended up passing on some smaller bulls and eating tag soup at the end.

 

[eyecrazy]

I spend alot of time archery hunting and hunting elk all year. If I had alot of points then I would go for rifle that is when the elk are rutting the hardest. but if I did draw a archery tag then I would spend the last week from day light to dark hunting. I think that you have to be perfect with your calling that time of year to get the big bulls to come in and I don't mean a perfect hoochy mama.

 

[SHEDSTALKER]

Jims, you're most certainly right about the phases of the moon. That is something I realize, but failed to mention. As a matter of fact, there was a couple nights I actually just sat out in couple different areas with water where I knew elk were using for several hours after it got dark just to try and get an idea how much more active they were at night. They still didn't bugle a whole lot more, but they were definately out and grazing in full force, generally about and hour after it was pitch black is when the majority would start to become active, at least in the spots I checked anyway.

Also, I was archery hunting, so it was pretty hot and it was before the rifle season, but the hunting pressure was not too horribly terrible as it was the last 11 days of the hunt. After hunting opening weekend for the first time this year though, I know they get slammed on opening week by way too many hunters.

 

[SHEDSTALKER]

I agree with eyecrazy in everything he just said. That's what I did when I had my LE tag in 07 and spent the last 11 days of the season hunting from dawn til dusk. Only use the hoochy mama that time of year if you want to see those elk's asses running the other way...

 

[koldtrailin]

KTC +1 !!!

 

[bowhunt]

I hunted the Dutton in 07. It was harder than I thought it would be.

However:
-I really never ran into other people. I hunted wallows primarily and never saw a camera or a person on them.
-The elk did NOT bugle or respond to bugles until the last 2 days. We still did not call in big bulls just raghorns.
-I found the terrain difficult but manageable.
-I observed that most bowhunters we talked to in camp were very frustrated.

We did not hunt the typical hot spots that you see posted on the internet.

Hope that helps.

 

[ktc]

bowhunt,

However? However, it about killed bowhunt! Why dont you tell him that part?;-)

 

[bowhunt]

hey KTC that was a fluke! nothing to do with the hiking.
But it did almost kill me. lol

 

[VELVETRUSH]

I drew the Wasatch last year scouted every weekend from the end of May on. I heard about how many people I would run into. The area I was scouting the most was the waters and it was supposed to be the more crowded spots. I hunted for eighteen days before killing a bull that I had passed up three times prior. I hunted a bull that I beleive no one knew about that Berryblasters uncle killed with a rifle opening day of the rifle hunt. I nearly killed this bull multiple times could never get a clear shot. My point is if you are willing to put your time in and you are not worried about killing a bull over 300" then I think archery is your ticket. If you are going to set your goals high and do not have a lot of time to take off (the last 10 days) then dont waste your time. Not to say that there is not a good quantity of good bulls but everything has to come together with a bow and when you are holding a tag it seems to be tougher. You will have more memories with a bow and that is what matters in the end.

 

[backinthegame]

>You will have more memories
>with a bow and that
>is what matters in the
>end.

 

[1highpeak]

Hey bowhunt did you kill a bull on the Dutton?

 

[bowhunt]

1highpeak,
Yes I did shoot a bull.