The Economy and Elk Hunting

R

Roadtrip

Guest
LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-09 AT 08:28PM (MST)[p]I know a lot of people have been talking about how the economy is changing their plans this year regarding hunting and putting in for tags. Well, my wife and I had this talk tonight and I thought I would share it with some others. I have 3 small kids, all under the age of 9 and we are in the process of building a house that has taken years to plan and get going. To say that money is tight is an understatement akin to saying the titanic had a small water problem. However, I am still putting in for every one of the hunts I have always wanted to draw. It would be easy to blame the economy and not put in...but I realized...that is for me a lie. You see...I'm a flat lander in the truest sense of the word, I live at 12 foot elevation at low tide but I am the most die hard elk hunter in these parts I have ever met. I have taken no less than a dozen men on their first hunts and have never been more satisfied than when I have seen the looks on their faces after they have taken their first elk. I have never hunted with a guide...spent all of my seasons but one on public lands and have had to spend money that most would not because I am always nonresident. HOWEVER...what I have learned...is this. That no matter what the state of the economy....I am first an elk hunter. Nothing can replace the smell of mountain air when I wake up, nothing sounds like a bugle early in the morning, nothing is more satisfying than a careful stalk and to me...if it is my last dollar I will consider it a dollar well spent. Not preaching mind you....just telling you how I feel. There is no promise of another season...so I consider each hunt as the one that might be my last. I hunt the last day as hard as the first if the tag is not filled......and I KNOW that one day my body will wear out and I will only have memories left. So, for anyone that is wanting to cut back because of the economy...I suggest you not do it. For some of us, Some things are more important than money. If this is the year I draw that Utah tag I have been after...I hope someone would be happy to join me on this hunt because if you love Elk Hunting like I do, we would get along well. Life is too short...and Elk Hunts are even shorter. Good luck to all in their draws this year.

Cheers
Roadtrip



"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son" Dean Wormer, Animal House
 
Didn't you mention 3 kids? New House?
Did you vote for Obama?
I don't want to pay for your stuff dude. Get a grip. Take care of the real business (Life) First! Then the Dream Dude.
Later. All good things come after you did your Duty!
 
Roadtrip
If you get that Utard tag look me up I'll chase stikys with ya
Good Luck and Great Memories
 
Roadtrip, you are absolutely right. No man knows how long he has on this world so live each day as if it was your last. Good Luck!
 
You're an Ass Badger, or Badgers Ass, take your pick.

Where did he say he wanted anybody to pay for anything?
 
+1 to loving to elk hunt!

+1 to taking care of your family!

Just plan wisely :)

nnl.gif

GO HEELS!
 
A more subtle way of saying what Badger said would be : While I understand as well as anyone the lure of the mountains in fall those 3 little kids and the unfinshed house would take priority over any desires that I had. One day the kids will be grown, the house will be done ( and hopefully paid for ). Then it'll be time to get even with those big stinky Elk. If not, then you can lie in your grave satisfied, knowing you sacrificed and did your best to make life as good as possible for your family. Best wishes. Chip
 
It sounds like you have a good idea on how to balance the meaningful things in your life, Material things are no more important than your time and freedom, Small kids need nature more than things, grown ups need to be happy, and if your happy and well rounded you will be a better father, good luck, and don't kid yourself no one lies in their grave satisfied.
 
Roadtrip, I'm with you 1000%.

LIFE IS SHORT AND YOU ONLY GET TO DO IT ONCE!!!!!!!!

Let me share my story with you. My daughter was born 9/20/86. I had to fight my ex every rut, sometimes I didn't even fight, I just didn't apply so i could be there for her birthday.

4 years ago we seperated, divorced 2 years ago. My house was 2 years from being paid off, I was going to retire @ 50 (12/09)with 84% of my pay and $250,000 in 401/457s. Now i'm gonna work til I'm 55 with a lesser % for retirement and i have a new 30 year mortage BUT I apply in every state I can unless i have a sure thing.

Both my son and daughter remember our hunts as some of our best times together.

So I recommend 2 things for you: Get your kids involved when they are old enough and stay in shape so you can do it forever.

I don't work out every night for vanity, I do it primarily so I can still hunt effectively. Hopefully live a lil longer and better too.

Like Piper said, "Plan for the future but enjoy the present."
 
Somewhere there is a balance and road, you seem to be overweighted toward yourself and hunting. Your kids need you now and you can elk hunt later. If you die without another elk hunt, so be it but if you die without being there for your kids and wife, shame on you.

Find that balance between Dad, husband, and hunter...that's my opinion. Good luck.
 
Priority!!!
God, Family, me.......Nobody loves hunting more then me but It's not always just about me!!! I totally get your point I just don't agree with your logic...My 2 cents.
 
This discussion shows one of the problems we have seen in hunting. You can still have an experience outdoors without putting out thousands for tags and guides. We have lost touch! Go by a general season tag, load up the kids and go. Sorry boys but telling the wife I am gonna go drop 5k+ on myself is beyond selfish. Go look at the old pics in here, lever actions, 2 wheel drive trucks, big smiles! Notice at your work who is getting laid off, the guys who didn't take care of buisness are the first gone. Think you kids will remember a hunt when they are living in the homeless shelter. If you are that close to the edge, why would you push it? Go ask the guys who came through the Great Depression how much they spent on hunting, and what makes you so arogant as to think it can't happen to us? My mortgage is paid on time every month just like 90% of the rest of us, WE DON'T WANT TO PAY YOURS!!!! SO take care of buisness!
 
And not to beat this horse but if your in your 50's and have a new 30 year mortgage, what are you thinking? Think your gonna live and be productive into your mid 80's? Vanity! In Utah you can buy a bonus point, do it and let things settle out. Of course their are guys not in trouble, but if your on the edge why are you pushing it? Read a paper, Obama thinks unemployment will be over 10%, and he is trying to be positive. Sorry to be the buzzkill, but even the NFL is laying off people. Those of us with kids and family's, its time to grow up. Take that out of state hunt money and stick it in the bank, if things settle out, elk won't be extinct next year. Remember, the number one cause of divorce is money issues. Their is a world of hurt coming, do what you can to prepare. As a side note a nice doe or cow in the freezer eats a lot better than an old bull. For my self, my best times outdoors with my dad were spent hunting jackrabbits(no tag, .22's are cheap). Your kids want to be included, remember your first(deer, elk, etc.) did you care that it wasn't a book animal? I cared only that the older guys made me feel accepted and proud. Their ain't nothing wrong with getting back to that and away from scores, books, and all the crap that goes with it.
 
Yea, almost 50 with a 30 year mortage!!!! So what??? The house appraised for $439,000, I borrowed $270,000. With my math thats over $160,000 in equity AFTER giving the ex $150,000 2 years ago. Plus house prices around here are down 25-30%. No guarentee they'll ever go back up but consolidating a few debts incurred during a divorce will leave me $2,000.00+ a month after bills. Enough to put more away for the future, persue my hobbies and help my children when they need it.

I did the 15 year mortage thing when I was 35. Because of that we took fewer vacations, Kids sacraficed as well as us so the house would be paid off @ 50. What did it get me?? Not much.

I knew putting my personal opinion on MM was opening myself up for critisim. Least I wasn't disappointed.

Oh yea, the only way I'm gonna get laid off is if Kali decides to let 176,000 convicted felons outta prison. When i took this job (26 years ago) unemployment was almost 12%. I declined higher pay to ensure job security.

Buy a general tag and just go??? Well, what happens when the kid looses interest cause they don't see game, or you are worried about their safety cause of all the hunters??? I applied both my kids for every youth hunt availible here, mostly birds. They both took big game outta state after earning PPs. They had quality hunts including a pack-in, wilderness elk hunt, youth only!!! How many apply their kids for youth only out-of-state, take 12 days off, haul horses to Utah and pack in to a wilderness so their kids can have a memorial experence. My son grew up on that hunt and didn't want to leave after 7 days of huntin.

Now I've got my girlfriend and her son started. Both took antelope in Wy last year and are looking forward to Wy deer this year. I splitting my 3 (max) points so we can draw an average region instead of me seeking the ultimate hunt.

SELFISH?????????? You picked the wrong guy bud!!!!!!!!
 
Roadtrip: Allow me to have some fun at your expense. I'm sure this is not the way you meant your post . . . but I'm going to take you at your word.

I hear your words, and I feel pain for your wife and your children. While you acknowledge the economy is tight and your personal finances are further stressed by raising 3 children and building a house, you are planning to continue to divert significant family resources (I assume you view your income as a common asset of your family, not your private revenue, and further that the financial resources involved are 'significant', otherwise it would not merit mentioning in this forum) pursuing your personal satisfactions. Others may sacrifice their own hobbies and avocations for the good of their families, particularly during hard times, but not Roadtrip! Full speed ahead with self-gratification!

As I said, probably not what you meant to say, but at least one way of reading what your wrote. I grant you the assumption that you are a good family man and place your family's welfare first on your priority list . . . but your post kind of suggests otherwise. I hope you take my post according to my intention, to poke some good natured fun, that's all.
 
I agree with Roadtrip. A little more perspective. Uncle just died of massive heart attack at 64, my 25 year old cousin passed away from cancer last week. I don't care of how long somebody's mortgage is or at what age if they can make the payment. I don't want to tell others how to spend their money and I don't expect them to tell me how to spend my money. We all have different priorities, period! I look at my dad, he is at a point in life that he can afford what he wants in the hunting world but physically cannot do it. I don't want to be that way and so I go on and apply for hunts that I probably should not but I will find a way to make it happen if the tag is drawn. I will apply my boy for every hunt I can with the intention of building points for him later in life. Without them he will not hunt quality areas later on.
 
Dang Bob,,,,, An Ass? Guess I'll pick badgers ass!
Chill dude, Obamee's gonna make it all better for ya.
 
Your house can appraise for 10 million, its only worth what you can sell it for. Second, 270k for on a thirty year note, you will have paid what 700k for that house when done paying. Second, its called tradition. Their are a ton of guys in here who take quality animals and have quality experiences every year on public ground because they spent the time and effort develping a traditional hunting area. If my kids don't kill something every year they won't want to hunt? Plenty of high fence ranches, why not just take them here. IT IS CALLED HUNTING, NOT KILLING!!! I live in Utah, the tourism board appreciates the money, I know the dwr does. Last I heard Cali was bankrupt, can't imagine any public sector job is "secure". Do your thing man, we run on to each other we will have a beer and swap lies, but I can't help but think that we have crushed our sport with this attitude of money isn't an option, and it isn't hunting unless we put out for outfitters and guides. If you have the cash great!! Guides for the most part are just hard working guys. But if your financing your kids future(that house payment cuts into their inheritance, college, ability for us to help them down the road) to chase scores, priorities are out of wack.
 
Who gives a rats if he re-financed his house. I know a-lot of people who retire, sell and move. So if a person is retired then moves should they be expected to take out short loans depending on thier health and life projection???

People do get divorced, things do happen.

I don't think that what people here are saying is,,,

1- stop taking care of your financial obligations and go hunt.

2- Screw the family and kids.

If you work you ass off and can still afford to keep your family happy, safe and comfy then ya go hunting. Take your kids. I think Roadtrip's point is plan ahead, and take advantage of the seasons because it may not come around again.

Not long ago Feb 20 Manny15 made a post "Follow your dreams" He lost a family member at a young age from a heart attack.

I don't think his message was to neglect your financial obligations but live life and follow your dreams and desires.

Most people I know myself included involve the family one way or another when it comes to hunting. My son is 10 and we are already looking ahead to youthhunts, he cant wait. For now its targets, rabbits and potguts. I also have friends that all they live for is hunting, they are single. Smart choice for them.

Just my 50 cents on this. Jason
 
Who'd of thought???
MM has two Fairy's in the Forum. Never would a guessed that.
 
Nice subject Roadtrip, got everybodys attention! Sorry Hossblur but some of your comments are big time buzzkill! But I do agree with you on to much money being spent in one area of a mans life,like hunting.Hey Elk slayer I agree with you that controlled hunts are a much better option for the young'ins.Not all but alot of general hunts are tuff for the kids. Spare no expence on taking your kids hunting,I know Ihave five of them,and consider quality hunting education equal to any college ed.One more thing I might add,keep God in the equation,put him first and all these other things will be added!Matt 6:33.
 
This is an interesting thread.

Roadtrip and Califelkslayer...good for you! I didn't read anywhere that these guys were neglecting their families.

....As for some of you others......your underwear is way to tight.

Spending your kids inheritance? WTF...? Are you serious? Anyone who would give up living some dream, so he can leave money to his kids is a complete idiot......unless you never taught your kids to do anything beside peel paint chips off the wall and eat them. Or play soccer.

Hossblur...easy man! You need to relax!

And....last but not least, for the first time I can recall, I agree with Piper!!!!!Nobody lies in their grave happy!!
 
Rug, Nick, etc... Go back and read the post. What has some of us questioning his priorities is :
1] He says '' to say that money is tight is akin to saying the Titanic has a small water problem ''.
2] He says nothing about taking his kids, wife, etc...
3] His post uses the word ''I'' 30 times.
Think about it.
 
Nick, I couldn't have said it better about the inheritance, WOW guess I'm really twisted cause I'm not planning for my kids INHERITANCE?????????

In 97 my dad and I packed into a remote area of Montana leading 2 horses. He worked his a$$ of in and out. On the way home he said, "Son, you're gonna have to get 2 more horses, I'm too old to do this." I replied, "Dad, if you don't take some of that money of yours and spent it on guides, I'm gonna spend it for you when you die." Since that he's been to NM 2Xs, Wy 1x, Canada 2Xs, and Africa. These were his first guided hunts of his life. This year he has a good chance of drawing Monroe late. I have no problem taking 10-12 days off work to help him but since it's the last time he'll probably draw a good utah tag I suggested he consider a guide, actually looking @ a guy who PMd me on MM. DAMN, I shoulda told him to save his money for me??? WTF???

BossHurl, where'd you get "GUIDE" anyway??? Reason I feed and ride 4 horses all year is so I can DIY!!! Horses, feed, tack, trailer, extra gas=satisfaction!!

And whats Obama got to do with anything?? I already survived Carter and Clinton, he's just got a better tan and same thought processes.

Point of my first 2 posts were to encourage Roadtrip, AND to include his kids when they get older.
 
Thanks, that was the point. I I I I I, ME ME ME. I like everyone in here loves the mtns. and the experiences in them. I notice the post didn't say he was spending money hunting a good cow or spike to get some good meat. He was going to finance antlers. As for the kid thing, my personal peave. I watch the same shows as the rest of you. Where are the kids? My dad didn't one time leave me to go "get his hunt on". Started when I was 3 1/2. April 20 my 3 year old and me are going turkey hunting knowing full well that I will most likely not kill a bird because 3 year old boys don't hold still. Eventually he will and we will get a bird, but I guarantee he will be there down the road because he didn't get left so I could persue MY passion. We have lost a generation because we are too busy trophy hunting to be bothered with the kids. One of the coolest things I have seen in here wasn't the spider bull, or some huge deer, it was a guy from arizona( i think) who killed a big deer with bow with a 3yr old(might have been 4). I see the pics in here, where are the kids? Your spending 5+k to hunt, money you aren't using with your family, and you don't take your son or daughter? We have a new world record elk, i saw the pics, doc, doyle, guides. Where were his sons, grandsons, daughters, granddaughters? He invested 250k+, I doubt doyle won't allow kids to come with for that money. The prison guard I disagreed with did have this part right, he was taking the kids, good for you man! My personal opinion is that the states should not take credit cards to apply for hunts. If you have the money go for it, but I (my opinion) think if you are financing antlers, or are that close to the edge, your irresponsible. And yes, your neighbor losing his home affects you. Get your house appraised when their are 3-4 vacant foreclosed houses around you and see what it does to your house value. But, who cares, obama is president so he will take care of all of us!
 
Cali, I mean no harm to you, just mouthing off. I do think though that you and Road are in way different stages of life, and in way different areas of financial security. You and I are in total agreement about having the kids with though. If road would have said he was taking the kids and "smelling mtn air" i probably wouldn't have responded, it was the I am on the edge but I I I ME ME ME that got me in here.
 
Well this thread sure did take on a life of its own. My comment about the Titanic was a tongue in cheek joke regarding the current economy and anyone that builds a house knows it is tight paying the construction perm along with your current living arrangements. I'm not going to respond to everyone...would take all night. My boy likes hunting because I do it....If I stop so would he. Anyway everyone has their own opinions....and I stand strongly on my own. I don't use the economy or any thing else as an excuse not to try to hunt elk. I have my own gear and ammo is fairly cheap. Cali you are dead right....a wise man told me to always hunt...you will run out of health and time before you run out of money. You don't have to spend a fortune to have a good hunt, and you can't draw if you don't put in. I want my kids to love hunting and the best way I know to do that is to hunt consistently, and take them whenever possible.

Cheers,
Roadtrip.



"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son" Dean Wormer, Animal House
 
Since we all kissed and made up (cept Badger&rugarm77):) I wish you guys the best in the draws and on your hunts this fall.

And Road, as much enjoyment as you expressed in your initial post concerning helping friends get their first elk, wait til it's your son or daughter. Might just be one of the best days of your life.
 
Roadtrip and Kali...........Good on you guys. Roadtrip that first post was one of the better things I've seen on here in quite a while. Good luck to you this season.
 
Hey! Kids stop it or you will all have a time out! Seriously , we need to stop the name calling and smart arse remarks. Although some are funny. Just remember we are all on the same team here. Hunters and outdoorspeople. The antis are just waiting to divide an conquer. It is their only hope to achieve their goal. Let's stick together on the important stuff and let everyone decide on how they are going to justify doing what they live for to themselves. Ok group hug is over , now lets go kill something.
 
well,
i read this topic last night and laid in bed thinking of all kinds of things (up till 3:00am ..thanks..lol) its really funny to me that we say "next year" or when i am retired and the kids are out of the house i will do it" i have news for those of us who think that way.how to you know you are going to make it to sunday?? do we? no we don't. about 10 years ago now my father age 50 went in for his anual physical check up and they found a small "spot" on his lung long story short in my head i thought "oh no biggie they will go in and fix it" 6 weeks to the day he was gone.same year my brother age 30 went into a coma and never came out of it.think these things don't happen they do. our days are numbered just think about that.my son is now out of the house and i am single so things are a little different for me now.but when he was little and i was married i went on hunts i thought man i better wait... am i glad i didn't wait. i never put my family in a bad position doing it. i just looked at the value of the outdoors and what it brings to our lives.my son and wife always went along and we always had a great time.i guide hunts and get to share in lots of peoples memories and love to take kids and women on their hunts the best.when i look at all the pictures of the hunts i have been on and see the faces of the people in the pictures..(my boy with his first rabbit)can you put a price tag on that? answer is?....NO!
after loosing my dad and bro in the same year the "round to it" thought process went out the window as i realized....i really might not be here next year to "get around to it"
just my 2 cents
ajoe
 
joe, lost my dad to lung cancer that went to his brain, I know what you mean. My involvment went to taking the kids, and the you never know argument is great and people should live their lives, BUT, you do never know and if you overextend and credit score your outdoor activities, you never know you might not be here to pay it off either, leaving momma and the kids to eat it. Thats all. I realize that living in utah i am lucky, I can be in the mtns in 20 min, and in 5 minutes I can check out buffalo and some close to 40" mulies(antelope island), but I do think you can really enjoy the outdoor livestyle without the big hit to the wallet. I am not an idiot, I am already planning on doing alaska with my son, and we will hire planes, guides etc., but I think lately we have decided that guides, outfitters, etc. are an every year deal not the special occasion they used to be, my proof of that is the ammount of "ranches" their are now as compared to 10 years ago. I know in my industry, every contractor hunted multiple states and multiple outfitters, now they are all bankrupt. Bet they would like some of the money back now. Guides aren't evil, but they also aren't necessary to enjoy hunting, it is called HUNTING, not killing. If the snow would come off we could all spend more time outdooring and less time mouthing off!
 

Similar threads

tulsaburnside
Elk Down, and Fill the Freezer!
Replies
16
Views
1k
mtmuley
M
txhunter58
Age this Bull
Replies
49
Views
3k
sambo3006
sambo3006
willfrye027
CO 66 vs 67 elk rifle
Replies
4
Views
937
Joe2Kool
Joe2Kool

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

6C93EEF0-24AD-411E-8975-6E26320796B1.jpeg
IMG_3710 (1)J.jpg
95AC0DCD-B911-4ECF-BBD9-B846C8D91BE7.jpeg
6 pt bull 7-21 #2.JPG
7B172D44-6EB8-468B-A9A0-F75007D49A5C.jpeg
20210727_112152.jpg
DSC00255.jpeg
20230825_185519.jpg
20230906_194905.jpg
Big Wyoming Buck 4.JPG
IMG_20200724_131901238.jpg
7601ACA3-F5C4-41E3-B466-E67F8B991964.jpeg
Back
Top Bottom