Strange June Weather = Big Antlers?

338magblaster · Jun 18, 2009

OK, a little slow on the boards.

What will this crazy wet June mean come August and September for bulls...

Racks should be prime this year and this weather will provide enough water and feed to make the whale-tails finish nicely.

Anyone have any opinions or better yet research/experience that will help provide insight into the size of the racks we will see this fall?

I know in 2002 when it was so dry in the summer, the bulls had great fronts and weak backs... at least the ones I saw in Southern Utah. Same in 2005 when I last hunted a Utah LE area.

Let's hear your thoughts.

338

All who wander are not lost.

cowslayer · Jun 18, 2009

I hope that the fires will let you hunt... Water= More Fuel for bigger fires!!!

Antlers will be good, but the fires are bound to be bigger this year.

CS

"Helping turn good tags, into great ones." - www.vipoptics.com

longshooter338 · Jun 18, 2009

338magblaster. I hope your right i have a le tag on the desert and the antler growth looks awesome. ps nice choice of calliber 338 ultra for me

LOVE2BHUNTING · Jun 18, 2009

I'm betting on a banner year in AZ.

bullslayer702 · Jun 18, 2009

last year in nevada was real dry fronts were good but real week on the back end this should be the best year since 2005 in my opinion

carbonnation · Jun 18, 2009

I don't know that the wet weather will effect the antler size on most of utahs LE units. Many of those units have fairly high elevations where there is greenery most years. The Manti, for example will have good feed well into July, even in some of the driest years. If it helps, it will be in the more southern units.
I think the greatest benefit is to the calves and fawns. Tall grass means more places to hide from predators. It also means more feed at lower elevations (wintering grounds).
I think the real benefit will be seen next year with greater survival rates of this years fawn and calf crop.

I would love it to help those antlers on the San Juan, I have a Muzzle loader tag and can not wait.

Califelkslayer · Jun 18, 2009

I hear the Ely elk units are "lush." And I hope so.

Anybody know about N. Central NM?? The unit I'm huntin has 11,000 ground so it's probably the same year to year. Hope for the best, expect the worst.

c3 · Jun 21, 2009

I don't believe exceptional antler growth is simply up to water and feed. I believe tempurature plays an enourmous roll in overall growth. Elk use their antlers as a radiator and the higher the temps the larger the growth.

Higher daytime temps given enough feed and water is the recipe for huge mass and tine length. I'll suggest that the cool temps so far this year are detrimental to front half growth. I think we will find lots of spindly front half bulls this year.

Just my $0.02

Cheers,
Pete

piper · Jun 21, 2009

I knew pronghorns used their horns as radiators, but I didn't know that antlered game did, makes some sense though, many times the animals with the biggest antler size in relation to body size come from arid regions.

nickman · Jun 22, 2009

Excuse me, but are you guys discussing corn here?

Rain does not make antlers grow........or "finish whale tails"!

Antlers as radiators? You need subsurface blood flow, like in a muley's ears, to get the radiator effect.

Antlers are BONE and by the time it gets hot, there is ZERO blood circulation in antlers.

Warm weather makes better antler growth? So much for a big, nasty, Canadian Moose's chances.

Last years weather has more effect on what this year produces, just as this spring will help next years animals.

Genetics is still the main factor in antler growth. Basic animal health is very important, but the weather conditions you see now have very little effect on this years antler growth.

ScottNM · Jun 22, 2009

can you say "game management". That is why for years colorado was known as the raghorn state. It was alot of over the counter tags. Genitics, minerals, food and water all do play a role. However, you can have beautiful 380 class bulls from NM to Canada if your have proper "game management". Get a bull 6-8 years old and a decent summer of food and good portion of those bulls will be trophys.JMO

dgwoody · Jun 22, 2009

I have heard it both ways. A lot of rain equals good vegitation, but some say that to much will delute the quality of the feed. Can we get a biologist's take?

piper · Jun 22, 2009

why are Elk in Northern BC not known for trophy antlers? why do Roosevelt Elk in AK have huge bodies and small antlers, I think there is some truth in most of what has been said here, I do know that the two world record pronghorns were killed in AZ on the same abnormally hot dry year.

zekers · Jun 22, 2009

I'm with nickman. What about Montana's bulls? Many a 380 plus has come from that place.

ScottNM · Jun 22, 2009

AGE is over half the equation. You cannot have Landowners toasting the resources and expect the quality to continue. Just look at the gila in NM. When I came to NM in 94, there were about a dozen 400 class bulls a year coming out plus. There is one I know in 2008. They have started cutting back on tags so it should be improving over the next 5 years. The rest is food and genitics.

swbuckmaster · Jun 22, 2009

you will see an improvment in deer quality down south in places like the Paunsaguant.

That area has been in a drout for quite a few years and the forage was in poor shape. Look at the horn groth last year in the bucks that were killed compaired to the years before. This year should be good down there.

however up here say on the front we always have good forage in the summer so I would say winter would play a more important part. you cant expect a deer to depleate his body mass and expect to have a banner year for horns because he spends all his energy building up his body reserves.

deer that have both good summers and winters with forage will grow big antlers especially if you throw in age and genetics.

Archery is a year round commitment!!

cabinfever · Jun 24, 2009

Genetics, age, good moisture= big antlers.

My wife's uncle shot a 190 class mule deer during a drought year. They found the bucks sheds from the previous year (excellent moisture year) and the sheds scored over 200. I'd imagine elk are no different.

It's funny to hear peoples reactions during a drought year....poor management, lousy hunt, no big bucks, the DWR sucks. Than, mother nature dishes out a wet spring the following year and miraculously all the big bucks and bulls are resurrected from their shallow graves in the freezer and they are on every hillside, canyon, and creek bottom.

Mike

ktc · Jun 24, 2009

I have to go with nickman and c3. I do believe in very arid areas like Arizon and NM, and possible some places in Utah moisture would matter to an extent. However, I get the feeling you guys are growing tomatos? You cannot put water and miracle grow on a antler and expect it to grow?

2004 on Dutton was a seriously dry year and the harvest was one of the best. 2005 was extremely wet with the Sevier River flooding and St George washing away. The harvest that year was very mediocre at best.

338magblaster · Jun 24, 2009

All good insights. There are a couple of points that I expected were a given in this conversation. Given the track record of the LE units in Utah, I expect that no arguement about the genetics being present... Another factor is age, With the age objectives being modified downward in the past couple of years, the age classes present on the units are also in a state of flux but the age class to grow big should be present.

All being said, I agree that water is not the ONLY ingredient for antler growth, however, without sufficient water the quality of the feed would not exist and a lack of water would impact the next year significantly.

So, anyone believe there is another top-of-the-book bull to be taken this year? Guides generally (Doyle specifically) have been very successful taking new record book bulls (Spidey and Ryan's bull) What will we see in '09? What Units will produce the biggest bulls? Pahvant, Monroe, Beaver, Dutton, San Juan (my top 5 in no specific order)?

338

All who wander are not lost.