Greys River FG Stats

W

wyomingdave

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Here's a photo of the chalk board at the Greys River (Alpine) Check Station. At the time, Deer Season was closed, but Elk season was open. Photo date was 19 October 05.

Soooo, the stats tell me a trophy quest in Areas G and H is over, kaput, nada. I asked the census taker about the quality of the "30 inch and over bucks" and he said, they were all typical and spindly horned. When I asked for a probable cause of the poor results, his answer was I don't really know (or I'm not allowed to speculate).

I hunted the opener of Area G off of Smiths Fork road as well (no checkstation there) and my assessment of what I saw and the results of others coincedes with Area H results.

If the hunting pressure in Area H consists of 1200 non-resident hunters (allowed by FG) and approx three times that for residents (3600), you have 5000 hunters in the field for 60 bucks taken.
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Wyoming Dave
 
Great info. Thanks for sharing. I hunted the Greys from 83 to 98 and will not go back until managemnt changes are made. Great country with tremendous potential. Poor management. Too bad because those of us that live in Wyoming could have "bragging rights" if quality was emphasized in the management, even in a portion of the region.
 
It sounds just like our Vail Tree Farm. 3500-4500 hunters per weekend and less than 100 deer taken out. Almost all bucks were under 2 pt and a big chunk were does. Pretty sad.
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Eric
 
A buddy and I hunted H this year and we saw some great bucks. We saw some in the 28 inch class and possibly better. Two had cheaters and we were very excited about the hunt. We saw 23 bucks in a 2 mile area. We thought this would be the best hunt of our lives thus far. Then we rolled in for the hunt a few days early and we noticed all the bucks had pulled out of the area. We looked and looked and we could not find them. They vanished. We think the archery deer and elk hunters pushed them around the week before the hunt. We saw two well know outfitters in the area and they had their clients taking two points on the last days of their hunts. It was a tough year. The thing is, the bucks were there. What do you think happened?
 
Interesting stats, I've hunted greys twice, in 95 and 01. 95 was a great hunt, 01 left something to be desired. I couldn't believe the number of people that were there. It was crazy, I think the hunting there has really changed especially since now more people are hunting the high country and there are resources out there that tell you how to do it successfully. It is a different game out there now. Too bad they don't manage it for a more trophy area, it would be AWESOME.
 
SOUNDS LIKE THE GOOD OLE COVETED N.E. REGION HERE!!!

I HATE TO HEAR ABOUT ANOTHER GREAT AREA GETTING DESTROYED DUE TO PISS POOR MANAGEMENT!!!

YOU SURE THEY HAVEN'T CONTACTED UTAH TO FIND OUT HOW TO DESTROY AN AREA???

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING SEVERAL STATES BETTER PULL THEIR HEADS OUT BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!!!
 
Here is the same board from the middle of the 2001 season. This was the last year I hunted region G. I also hunted during 93, 94, and 95. As you can see from the board those years sucked pretty bad . Had a fun time though.

Mark

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-03-05 AT 06:20AM (MST)[p]it does show that more people are laying off the 2 points though. for most of wyoming, that board would be very different. the less than 20 inch group would be the vast majority, instead of the middle range. doesn't seem like the overall success is all that great-but in my mind if the deer most likely taken is a 20-26" buck, it could be alot worse. big deer are something special. if every hunter on this board took a book deer every year, that wouldn't be true. for the most part, wyoming doesn't manage any areas for big deer. some landowners do, but game and fish do not. theres generally good opportunity for meat on the table, and 75% of the state is an easy draw for nonresidents. i hear people complain that theres no big deer in the area i hunt, but it just isn't true. i watch them all winter long. there just not hanging out by the road during hunting season. some states have areas that are managed to the point where even dumb deer live long enough to grow big racks. to me, half the value of a trophy is its rareness, and the difficulty and willpower to let lesser deer walk year after year while in the search of your trophy.
 
Interesting numbers. I'm not sure what the point is of this post. I'm positive that the numbers tell us harvest but they tell us very little about the actual dear numbers and hunting pressure, and nothing about FW management. Without having information about weather and hunter numbers there is almost no reason to think that the numbers mean anything more than a snapshot in time.

If you disagree, than you must also be able to explain why, statistically 1997 and 2005 are the same, except for the > 26" category, and just the year before there was actually one more "wide-buck" recorded. Without more data, the numbers are just that, numbers.

Just looking at the numbers tells me that the big buck trend in '97 was up in the following years until '03 then it went down and then back up in '04 to nearly the same number as in '97. So how can you tell if FW management is good or bad, especially when you don't know the management goals. . .

I'd say that hunter experience is as important or more so than deer numbers. If there are lots of deer but hunters are unhappy then something needs to change, just like if there are no deer and unhappy hunters things need to change. It's unlikely that there would be a situation, in a general area, where you would have few deer and happy hunters, even if they are big deer.
 
Good Post by Sam.

I wonder how many hunters were checked to get those harvest numbers. It is interesting to see the numbers before and after a hard winter. 1992 to 1993 for example, and then there is a big increase by year 3 or 4 after the winter.

Do doubt that Wyoming is down in trophy quality, big time down. I think that the Western units get hit harder every year by residents. 10 years ago there didn't seem to be many hard-core trophy residents, but now it seems more residents are hitting the trophy areas, thus creating a more pressure on the high end bucks.
 
The stats are a little misleading as the F&G didn't man the check station except for the first week. I was six miles back in H and couldn't belive the number of camps. We saw a number of bucks the largest being 32" which the camp below us took. We saw a few bucks in the 25"-27" category but were holding out for something bigger. How about the Grizzly Sow and two cubs in H this year did anyone else run into them?
 
I agree with the stats being very misleading...the check station is manned at on seemingly random days and only during certain times of the day. In 2000 i killed a large buck and drove out the Grey's at maybe 6:00 pm on the 2nd Saturday of the hunt and there was nobody at the station. I would bet far more deer head out that road than get checked.

But like other people have said, the herd is WAY down from past years (1998-2001). Yes the country is big enough that there are a couple of nice bucks in each canyon, but there used to be 10-20 nice bucks in each canyon. If you spent a day on the winter range in the late 90's and then a day last winter the difference is depressingly obvious.

Lastly, where exactly were the grizzlies at?

-pinenut
 
We all know that the region H guys, especially the wyoming range and pinedale areas, are really happy with all the new gas drilling on winter range. I think with the new pressure for winter drilling the muley populations is only going to go down, regardles of what FW managers do! The big boys will get poached.
 
I spent ALL last winter on the winter range these deer use and its a shame. There is not as many huge deer as most people think. Now anybody can blame it on drilling rigs and whatever you want, BUT your not going to get big deer if you dont manage for big deer period. Why do you think you see so many bucks way the hell back in the ruffest country you can find? Because of less pressure. And why? Because most deer are getting wapped as soon as they are 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 , but not back there. WHo wants to pack out a dink? AGE makes ANTLERS end of story. With the terrible winters in that area and number of small bucks being taken its a uphill battle for throphy management. I really would like to see it go to a limited draw area myself residents and nonresidents. Just think of the deer that would come out of that area. wow. For now the wilderness is the last stronghold of throphy mule deer if you can even call it that.

sn
 
Gas drilling? The deer have so much winter range in that area that I think they will be just fine with a few oil rigs on the landscape.

Could the problem be that they are buying up all of the sheep grazing rights in the area? Think of all the coyotes killed each year by these ranchers as they tend to their sheep. The sheep graze the area and make it an awesome area for deer. They have little problem in the area with overgrown pine stands because of the long history of grazing in the area. Could it be that there are too many resident hunters in the area? Look up the definition of a "predator pit". That is what the area is experiencing. The predators and hunters are taking too many deer for the given population. Could it be that, despite the obvious decline in the deer population, they have just as many guides as in the good old days. Those canyons were crawling with guides this year. Could it be that the bear are no longer watched and killed as they were in the years past when there was sheep grazing? Could it be that they have removed 3 grizz from the area but they will no longer do that because the area is not grazing sheep any more and is considered to be part of the grizzly management area? Could it be that they have documented wwolves coming into the Northern areas of the unit?

Noooooo, couldn't be nay of these things.....must be oil rigs in the sage brush.

By the way, a few years ago when I was out there on the winter range checking out bucks, the two largest bucks I saw were feeding along the edges of roads where the snow had melted. Thank goodness they had those roads in the area.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-06-05 AT 11:17AM (MST)[p]Looks like AspenA. . . has it all figured out. LOL. . . That country's in more danger than I ever imagined. . .Good grief.
 
You obvious don't know what you are talking about AspenAdventures or know anything about that country because if you did you would know that there is other parts of the winter range that havn't had oil rigs on them for the last 40 years. It's these areas that the oil rigs are affecting the Muledeers habits by breaking there migratory routs distroying there valubale food sourses and making more accsess for more people to harass the deer inadvertently
and intentionally. Other areas of the winter range that have had oil rigs on them for years a lot more really aren't going to effect there habits what it is going to do is distroy more of there feed and take up more of there winter range so before long the have nothing to eat and no where to go.It's called human encroachment
 
If you do a fly over of the area I am sure you will see that the area has plenty of feed. I have spent my time on the winter range in the area. There are places in Salt Lake City just above the homes in the foothills where we are seeing many many many B&C bucks and many of them get posted on here. These bucks come from areas where there is virtually no winter range and there are ski resorts on the summer range. Compared to other areas there are very few cougars on the Front. There are few bears and there are no wolves. The hunting is only allowed to be done by bow hunters. This is why there are good bucks in the area. You see what I am saying? No winter range but we still have awesome bucks.....hmmmmmmmmmm. If the winter range was the problem you would see scores of starving and dead animals on the winter range. I have been there and unless you have a tough witner youo dont see that. But, a tough winter will kill animals with the best winter range. The oil rig guys are awesome and it is against the law to harass wildlife in Wyoming on the winter range. We talked to or searched 3 times in 2 days of looking at wildlife in Wyoming. Theye do an awesome job up there when compared with Utah.

Your arguement is that it is only the winter range. Well the winter range is HUGE in Wyoming cocmpared with other places. It is purely the items I mentioned previously that are causing the problem.

Case in point. Look at the Book Cliff area in Utah. They have roads all over in that area for oil rigs. Around 10 years ago they shut the area down to hunting because of dwindling populations. Then 3 or 4 years later they opened it up and it is now an amazing place to hunt. The Book Cliffs have a lot of bear and cougar and oil rigs but it was the hunters that had hunted it out. When the hunters were taken away the area rebounded.

Look at Colorado, they limited tags drastically in the late 90's and the state has reclaimed its rightful place as the meca for mule deer hunting. It is the hunters not the dirt roads in the middle of a sage brush oasis that are causing the decline.

Is it still obvious that I don't know what I am talking about? If so I do appologize for my inability to formulate a decent argument based on deductive reasoning.
 
Pinenut has a valid point above. The check station is closed when a lot of bucks come out.

For statistical sampling to be fairly accurate they need to sample at least 30 animals. They have done that. They can not count all of the animals leaving the area so they sample it. It is a large population that should be represented on a bell curve fairly well. That being the case, sampling 30 or more hunters will give you an accurate presentation of the activity in the area.
 
AspenAdventers listen here because this is my last post. You may think you have spent alot of time on this winter range but driving up from Utah a couple times a year doesn't count. This place is my backyard .I am a Wyoming native and have been raised on this winter range and so has my dad and my grandpa and I spend every day on it. You don't know anythig about it so don't you presume you do. Futhermore I am not saying that the winter range is the whole problem it is just part of the problem it just the only thing you said I don't agree with.Also I didn't say the feed is the problem now but if the drilling keeps up for another 40 years it will be, but you would have known that if you knew this country. And as for your Wasatch Front what are guys going to do when there are homes built all the way up the mountain and the deer have absolutely no where to go. Its things like this that's part of the problem why the Muledeer are on the decline and its people like you that's not offering them any help with their loss of habitat because you don't think there is a problem.As for harassment being illegal in Wyoming its not illegal to harass them on foot unfortunately .The Game and fish are still trying to get harsher wildlife statutes, its only ilegall to chase them with motorized vehicles witch seems to be the reasoning why so many people from Utah chase them down on foot to get them to shed ,I spend every day on this winter range in the winter and take it from me just bacause its illegal to chase them doesn't mean they don't do it.But you would have known all this if you knew what you were talking about.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-08-05 AT 10:42AM (MST)[p]Muleyfinder, I agree that the winter range is crucial but I think we are not sure exactly how important it is. How much do they really need per animal. I dont claim to be a biologist. I am glad that someone like you lives up ther and cares so much for the issue. That will give these bucks a fighting chance.

Saying that I don't know "anything" about the issue may be a bit harsh. I try to "never" speak in absolutes.

You are right, they are building up the mountain here in Salt Lake and it is tough on the deer. My point was thtat we have 1/100th the winter range and we seem to have a decent deer population with B&C bucks. I don't claim to know why this is, exactly, but it seems that the winter range must be sufficient in the area.

I dont know if it is against the law to chase animals on foot or not in the winter range. What I do know is that it is not only the Utahns. David Long chases bucks until their antlers fall off on the same winter range. He lives in Big Piney and you can buy the video of him chasing bucks on the winter range at any Sportsmans Wharehouse or on Eastmans web site. It is great, a native chasing big bucks on the winter range until the animal is in deaths grip. The same winter range I was stopped on by a conservation officer for walking around in the sage brush looking at bucks. I guess it's different if you are a native or you dont make videos for big "bucks".

Good luck with getting your herd back and thanks for the debate. It breaks up the routine here at the office.

AA

"One nation uder God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 
Interestingly I hunted a muzz hunt on Boulder Mt in Southern Utah 2000 & 2002. Those two years I saw a lot of 20-26" bucks, not many since. That conincides with the best years on the Greys board.
 

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