481 Bull New news

T

TomSissomSr

Guest
Founder

My name is Tom Sissom Sr, I am a partner of Double D Outfitters and got a call from a friend about your web page and what's going on. I would like to tell you our side of the story if possible. First I saw a reader (stealth archer) who said they knew me and that I lived in Kingman, well I have lived in Bullhead City for the past 35 years and maybe he is thinking of my son who lives in Kingman and is 34 years old. Who knows, I don't know who he is, but he talks a good talk. Second Tony needs to get over what happen 11 years ago when Darin was just starting out in the guide business, Tony called Darin and wanted the story and pictures from that hunt, not Darin calling him. Not sure who was trying to boost their business more Tony or Darin but they both were younger then. I do however believe you should keep his entire posting on the web, it does show who he is. I know a lot of women who can't let go either.

I am 53 years old and I believe we should all be putting our efforts to fight those who want to take away our hunting instead of battling those who love to hunt, even if its on private land. Someone would do it if we didn't. .

Now back to the real bull -- We will release the pictures as soon as the Hualapai Indian tribe will let us, and I will be glad to send you the field photos we have at the same time. Out of respect for the tribe we were asked to hold them until they can put their seal on them so someone else don't try to use them. It is a business for the tribe. They must ok every picture with the council and all promotions. Hope you can understand this. Neither Darin nor myself has made claim that we would not release the pictures.

Darin is a very close friend of John the hunter, he even was in his wedding, so its not like this is a big paying customer like some have said. In fact Darin was not with John when the bull was killed he was hunting himself on the deform hunt. I was with John filming the hunt for him. I will say this is the biggest bull killed on film. We had a great Indian guide Loren Bravo who was very helpful for John he couldn't have gotten the bull without him.

I guess with some people talking it hasn't hurt us, our web page got hit 4365 times in the past week, I do have to thank you for that. Even booked on hunter.

Bull Facts. The bull is a 7 x 11 and has a main frame of 418 with out the cheaters, 428 with all the cheaters but the big one and its 53". The Gross SCI is 481 The largest bull ever kill in Velvet but only the 4th largest kill because you have to take off 2% for velvet which will make him in the SCI book 471 gross. We named the bull YO 7 11 because he came into the water hole at 11 to 7 and we shot him and 7:11 and when we walked up to him we found out he had 7 x 11 points. This bull also has 71? of mass with the first measure of 11 ??.

We are looking forward to sharing this great bull our friend kill with all of you, and thanks to the Hualapai Tribe for this opportunity to hunt their Great Land.

Thanks
Tom Sissom Sr.
 
here, here. I am all for Tom coming on here to give story about the bull and the hunt. That doesn't seem like a puffed up story. In fact, he didn't even try and justify prior the prior dealings of Darin and Tony. Thank you. Having said that, we all have customers in business who had bad experiences and they will always be there. You hope your actions change enough that happy customers outnumber the bad. I don't think Tony is wrong for not "letting go". I don't see him as a scorned woman, but someone upholding principle and I for one applaud that just as I applaud Sissiom for this thread.
 
So 481 is a gross SCI score. I am not very familiar with how that scoring system works. Did you pull a B&C score gross/net?

Mark
muledeer.jpg


My hunting spot is so secret, not even the elk have found it yet.
 
SCI works with gross only what God gave them you get to score. I will post a score sheet when Scott from the Hualapai wildlife office lets me. Some of us believe NETS are for fish. Each to his own.

Thanks for you question
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-09 AT 01:28PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-09 AT 01:27?PM (MST)

Tom,

Thanks for posting what you posted. I know you from BHC from many years ago, when you owned the archery shop and I was just starting out in the archery field. There were some stories told then that seemed to be a bit exaggerated, but that is neither here nor there at this point. I have seen several of the bulls you have guided hunters on and they are definitely respectable. If I remember correctly, you had a booth at the last Bowhunter Happening in Williams, that had some toads in it and a video that I wanted to pick up, but forgot to.

Looking forward to the pics, thanks again for posting...

And yes I know Tom Jr. as well....
 
I do not have a dog in this fight...but.

Sometime instead of explaining why, we need to just say..Man I was stupid for lying....SORRY

I would think that if the person who lied would say SORRY! just maybe the water would run a little faster under the bridge.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-09 AT 05:48PM (MST)[p]
Tom,

I wasn't going to get involved again since I said I would have no further comment in the other thread. But...since you decided to include me with a feeble attempt to impugn my character and somehow blame what happened on me, I'll make one more post on this and I'm done with it on this site.

First, I would have no reason to lie about the contact call since it wouldn't change anything else about the grand ruse that was concocted; Darin LIED and convinced his clients to LIE.

Or am I supposed to assume Darin would have told the truth if the who called who was reversed? Sure he would have.

That said, I'm quite sure my memory of who called who is correct. I have all my tax records back to 1990, which also contain my phone bills with any LD phone calls made. So I can easily look up the dates of any call(s) I made to Darin, either to his home (520-763-8529) or his mobile phone of 602-321-8458 as shown in one of his notes to me. And if necessary, I could even have several witnesses verify any of my calls were made after I received the photos.

And yes, I still have the original envelopes, notes from Darin and the photos. I kept them all these years in case something like this cropped up.

BTW, the postmark on one envelope is Feb. 23, 2000 from a Las Vegas post office, several months after the hunt in Unit 10 supposedly took place, and the article appeared in the July, 2000 issue. My grandaughter, who is in the 8th grade, would come up with 9 years, not 11.

Of course, the number of years is unimportant. What is important was the damage done to my credibility and reputation with the publisher, my editor and the readers of the magazine. Absent any sort of apology from your partner, that damage will be something I will NEVER forget. Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if Darin had forgotten it years ago. If I had been him, I would have wanted to forget it all, too.

I might have been 'younger' 9 years ago, but at 59 then, I had been a responsible adult for a long time. Maybe now that Darin is no longer "younger" and has become a big boy, he's changed his ways. I wouldn't bet on it, however.

Lastly, I think most of the members on this site who have read the other thread are intelligent enough to discern where the truth lies. But hey, if you insist on digging a deeper hole, be my guest.

In the meantime, here's an adage no one can't dispute: if one tells the truth, it will never come back to bite one in the butt.

Have a great weekend and good luck on your hunts.



TONY MANDILE
48e63dfa482a34a9.jpg

How To Hunt Coues Deer
 
WOW!!

THIS IS PATHETIC LET IT GO!!!! HUNTING HAS BECOME AN UNGRATEFUL POUNDING OF THE CHEST, TO GET THE MOST EXPOSURE WORLD. GET ON WITH LIFE AND FORGET IT!!!!!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-09 AT 04:35PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-09 AT 04:35?PM (MST)

How feaking sad this whole '481 bull' harvest has become.

True--false---in the middle for reality......it has gotten to the point of total embarrasement.

Tony, I have total respect for you and for your word.

Sad, but true---our hunting has turned into 'inches' more than hunting.

Let it go fella's......

Be safe,

Robb
 
Tony,

At 59 years old and probable an outdoor writer for sometime when this story happened. You were fine with writing an article with bulls bugling non stop in November? - You didnt know better? Everyone knows elk are not bugling non stop in November.
 
I think it great that They are willing to post the pictures.
Time to bury the hachet.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
If someone made a fool out of me by lieing and scamming with others I wonuld'nt forget it either. I'm with Tony on that 100%. I bet if someone ripped Double D Outfitters off on a elk hunt they wouldn't forget it. Tom sounds like a politician.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-09 AT 08:40PM (MST)[p]>I think it great that They
>are willing to post the
>pictures.
>Time to bury the hachet.
>
>
>"I have found if you go
>the extra mile it's Never
>crowded"

wonder why that is? maybe because traffic has doubled on their site and he is getting business from MM?

Founder ought to charge him advertising space!
 
azhuntin 7 yrs ago I guided a hunter on a 6a muzzy elk hunt. we hunted south of stoneman lake and the bulls were screaming their heads off in november! it only lasted a couple days but it was the most amazing thing I've seen in a long time! so it happens!
 
I think any more the guiding biz has become so cutthroat that alot of guiding operation will take any road low or high if it gives them a chance to sell more permits I know alot of guiding outfits do a great job and they have alot of return hunters that they dont need to that and they dont advertise alot I dont know double d and Im not saying there bad but it makes you wonder if you're in the guiding biz, If you had the chance to have a outdoor writer write an article about you're operation would'nt you tell the truth or would you tell you're hunters to lie why?Its about selling permits making big money , no matter if it hurts you're reputaion as outfitter? This thread needs to be done. This is not a bash on outfitters . good hunting to all
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-09 AT 11:15PM (MST)[p]The root of all evil ...

In my mind, a liar is still a liar until he makes restitution to those he hurt. By this admission, "Tony needs to get over what happen 11 years ago when Darin was just starting out in the guide business", I have to assume that Tony's story is true and no apology has been made.

With what I know, I would not be able to trust Darin or his outfit nor would I put my reputation into their hands.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Good God- would somebody please kill a 482" bull PLEASE? Preferably someone who hasn't been wronged or cheated or libeled, lied to or lied to anyone themselves or doesnt have a book to sell or a guide service to promote!! And stick a camera in your pack for Petes sake!
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-28-09 AT 02:02AM (MST)[p]I'm with OutdoorWriter on this one. Get over someone practically destroying your credibility when your business is predicated on credibility--give me a freakin' break! This Darin guy nearly stole OutdoorWriter's livelihood for his own gain. To compare OutdoorWriter to a scorned woman is ridiculous! Even if it has been 9 or 11 years later, OutdoorWriter doesn't have to get over it and any grief he gives DD seems to be well deserved especially when the guy can't even apologize.

How would DD feel if OutdoorWriter published an article with this 481 bull in a magazine and gave another guide credit for it? I bet DD would file a lawsuit against OutdoorWriter tomorrow and run his name through the mud on every website DD could access. However, DD thinks OutdoorWriter should get over it when essentially this is what DD did to him. Please. This post is laughable!
 
So.. youll get on here and try to set things straight on the story of the bull, and on the lying to one guy.

But what about the illegal sign posting that goes on to this day? What about cutting elk off from folks trying to call them to their side of the fence. Wiring gates closed?

I live close to, and hunt this unit every year. You guys are the only ones hunters, and the landowners around the ranch have problems with.

You can default back to its just you guys doing what you love, thats why it costs $14,500 to access the ranch, right?

I do hold a grudge with people that mess with me.

Is that ethical?
 
I think somebody should get ahold of Darin and get him logged on. If he did lie about the bulls and coersed the hunters into doing the same, then he needs to grow a set of balls and apologize to Tony. I don't blame Tony for holding on to this. I always remember who screwed me over. Sometimes all a guy needs is an apology and he can take a big breath and move on.


"My sickle has a boattail"
"hidden soles leave .308 holes"
 
>I think somebody should get ahold
>of Darin and get him
>logged on. If he did
>lie about the bulls and
>coersed the hunters into doing
>the same, then he needs
>to grow a set of
>balls and apologize to Tony.
>I don't blame Tony for
>holding on to this. I
>always remember who screwed me
>over. Sometimes all a guy
>needs is an apology and
>he can take a big
>breath and move on.
>
>
>"My sickle has a boattail"
>"hidden soles leave .308 holes"



I agree 100%, man up for hell sakes.....
 
I remember back to when I got screwed a few different times, it's something I think about often. Now if I could only remember Thier names ..Sally, Julie, Sarah, Rachel... oh hell I never was any good at remembering names.. Racks yes names not a chance.
 
you guys are absolutely correct here! for one I made a non private recommendation to a guy looking for a good outfitter, and after that some guy got on here bad mouthing him to death. I was shocked, I didn't know what to say. but with one call he got on here and the next day the bad mouther was apologizing like crazy! if you have nothing to hide its not hard to squash rumors! but you can't dig deep enough to hide the truth! id like to hear an excuse for their actions around 18a myself.
 
My 2 cents.....I'm totally with LongBow on this. Darin needs man up and apologize if it is what it appears. Look what happens when you don't fix a wrong, or worse yet, keep breaking the rules......everyone loses. Lifes too short for this pig wrasslin stuff, everyone gets dirty and only the low down dirty dog pigs love it. Sheesh.
Like BullRoarer says....why won't someone perfect please kill a 482"er and show us some pics!!!! Hey, maybe I'll just have to do it next week...and I do have a camera.
 
i remember now why i started going to archery talk and bowsite, the people on here seem to do more ripping on each other than actually talking hunting. if you go to pretty much any thread on here you read more arguing and negativity than any other sites. cant you all just get along somewhat and talk hunting
 
some of you guy's are just pathetic. i agree with ridgefire. i thought this was a hunting forum not "day's of our live's". are you guy's just trying to stir the pot?
(like bowhunter95,nuke his post!!.)let them deal with this on their own time. i am new to this,and just started on the coueswhitetail site, but not sure if any of these site are what i was expecting.this morning after looking around this site and a few others it seem to be a trent to get caught up in all the b.s.... on the coues white tail site now the attack is on the mullin's crew who shot the gov tag! too bad! i remember when sportsman were better sportsman. to both parties.... TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE!!

and nuke bow hunter95.. he was just antagonizing tony for his own sick enjoyment. i am sure of it, because he never came back. he threw a match and walked away while you all blew on the fire.
what a jerkoff!!!

or maybe it's me. and i have the wrong idea about what these forums are for.
 
I am not very good with computers, so I was wondering if somebody could explain how TipMOver, ridgefire and need-more-time-off have the same IP address. Are they the same person?
 
it will never stop will it. oh well have fun guy's. "it is what it is" i guess!

Most internet service providers have more customers than dedicated addresses. When you logon to your service, you are assigned one of their addresses. When you log off, that address becomes available to another user. Some businesses have a central computer which stays connected to the internet and all the computers on the network will have the same IP address

http://blenderartists.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-4617.

here is some reading for you. this is not the first time i have come across this!!
 
Resentment and unforgiveness are cancer to the beholder. Just learn from it, and move on. We are all tempted with compromising our integrety a some point. If any failed that test, pass it next time or more frustration will follow. Hopefully all involved will be better because of this painful learning lesson. God bless, it sure is a beautiful day out there and man I love the mountains in fall. God bless you all.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-29-09 AT 01:21PM (MST)[p]""I am not very good with computers, so I was wondering if somebody could explain how TipMOver, ridgefire and need-more-time-off have the same IP address. Are they the same person?""


You're right. You're not very good with computers, now back to the original topic.

Dave Nicholson
Desert Hot Springs, Ca
 
How do you move on when the next time you head out to this area the same particular guide is out there trying to muscle people around?

Not expecting a explanation, thats not how this crew rolls, unless theres someone they can blame it on.

More personal experiences, we had a client that, years earlier booked a hunt with this outfitter and paid the rather large fee to access the ranch. Come to find out he killed his elk off the ranch in country anyone can hunt, and his elk was smaller than what we killed him 319", but he was told it was over 360". Needless to say he was just a little more than pissed when he found this out. What do you charge to access the ranch? Think someone owes someone a few dollars.

Is that ethical?
 
well Tony - we know the story printed was not the correct information -you've proved that - where they wrong - yes- No doubt your intent was to publish a good story and once you found out it was bogus - you did the right thing and published a retraction - I'd also like to see that - Please - I'm sure it still leaves a bad feeling - this opportunity to clear the air - so to speak - should allow you to move on!!

don't expect a big sorry - MM
 
I doubt if Tony will get an apology, they aren't sorry.

But if they think they can come on an open public forum and dictate the free publicity they are seeking without being challenged every time then that's naive. Tony has every right to state the facts and then answer the detractors everytime Their name is mentioned. This isn't a private party story of an elk hunt, it's a company promotion, two very different angles.

Kent
 

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