does ATV's cause damage..?...

M

manny15

Guest
Anybody have photo evidence that ATV's cause damage to the environment, cause I ain't seen any yet, just a bunch of hot air...?...

do you suppose we had the same argument way back when people started using 4x4 trucks to get into the woods instead of horse's..?..
 
Good ? Manny,
I think 4 wheeler defiantly damage good hunting by allowing people to have access to places, they otherwise would not be in, thus making less safe zones or animals.
 
>Or the occasional a$$hole that drives
>out through a meadow or
>off any trail for that
>matter.

Im not arguing that this may not happen quickdraw, but I think what Manny is after here is........... What is the damage caused by this. Does anybody have photos or physical proof? I know this has been argued passionately here by some very vocal members. Im neither for nor against it but this (if argued objectively) may turn into a good conversation. Then again if egos get involved this thread will deteriorate rapidly to the point that it will contain no useful information at all.


Mike
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LAST EDITED ON Nov-16-05 AT 09:50AM (MST)[p]for every good & ethical hunter there are 10 dumb-ass's, I know that, I'm talking about people who use them to get into an area and hunt ethicaly, what damage does an ATV actually do and can you proove it...

I seem to remeber an ATV in the pic with Cowboys (Dwane) big buck two years ago, I never heard any bitchen then...

I had an ATV years (1980's) ago & don't remember it creating any damage that wasn't gone by next season....my knee's are about shot but still crave getting into the woods, and horse's have to much up-keep, so am I to take a negative point of veiw without evidence...?..I'm looking 4 adult answers...Thanks....
 
Did you know that you can still see the wagon tracks left by the settlers over a hundred years ago? It is my personal opinion that ATV's dont belong anywhere you couldnt legally drive a pickup. Yes, ATV's do cause damage to off road areas(meadows, wetlands ect.) If anybody wants physical proof it shouldnt be too difficult to see it for yourself. Just go for a little trip out into the woods and look around. ATV's just make it way too easy for unresponsible idiots to break the rules.
 
Chef, those are wilderness area's, illegal extended use trails...but good example any how...there has to be a middle ground here some where..?..
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-16-05 AT 10:24AM (MST)[p]ATV's do cause damage. There are numerous examples of the damage done by off road vehicles and ATV's. A big difference between a 4x4 and an ATV is the terrain over which they can travel.

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I am not a rabid anti ATV person. We use them on the ranch all the time, We have three of them and they are a great tool to use around the ranch for fencing, moving cows, moving machinery from field to field, etc.

The challenge is that people are in the back country away from prying eyes and know there is limited enforcement personel and they decide to ride on fragile land. One track leads to hundreds. There is real and permanent damage being done by ATV's to our public lands. That is why more and more areas are being designated No Off road travel.

The threat of ATV damage is just one more issue that has to be dealt with if we wish to have health public lands. Development, population increases, grazing, etc are some others. ATV abuse may be the easiest to correct.

If you use them simply to get to a trail head, park and walk then they are no different then a 4x4.

Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-16-05 AT 10:29AM (MST)[p]Does bears ##### in the woods?

As if the noise and smell wasn?t enough, you need photos of land damage? Good grief. . .

Look at the quote at the end of my post. It's from the a current BOONE and CROCKET CLUB professor and former head of the USFS.

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One reason you don't see a bunch of pictures is because you can't photograph the destruction of ones experience because of ground pounding, obnoxious sounds created by atv's. Moreover, one does not need photos to know that ATV's damage the environment, especially in sensitive environments. I guess one could go as far as asking another to prove its damage. That could be a bit subjective, as some would not believe two tracks on sensitive soils is damage.


"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
Have you ever seen horse trails that have been used for decades?? I hunt in Idaho and the horse trails left by years of ranchers running sheep on National forest lands look like highways. Horses teathered around trees just destroy the roots of the trees being used. I'm not saying ATV'S don't cause damage but horses in many cases are no better. Atv's used correctly would only leave tracks like any other vehicle if kept on designated roads and trails. Remember it's not the gun fault!!!
 
Nemont,

Good post, but I am willing to bet that everybody here will agree that an ATV alone cant cause damage to the land. It takes an irresponsible rider to pilot it. No different that guns dont poach 200" bucks, people do. The problem is how do you teach ethics? Some say a 600gr slug to the piston, some say confiscation of said ATV, some say stiff fines....... And just like 200" bucks getting poached or harrassed on winter range every year, no matter what we do or legislate into action there WILL be those of us that go in closed areas with ATV's.

However, kept on marked trails and used responsibly I think they can be a very useful tool.

Mike
at235.gif
 
TFinalshoot, your 1st photo looks like it's by the Cainsville wash, interestingly in that same area you can still see the ruts made by covered wagons from early Mormon pioneers. I wonder if they were aware they were damaging the area :)
 
Manny, Nothing is wrong with using an ATV in an area where they are permitted. So I bet most people can see that and take it as a given. The problems occur when a guy is riding his ATV on a Designated trail and then takes his ATV off the trail. For example, Jim Bob rides his ATV up a designated trail, then shoots an animal across the ravine. Then he drives the ATV off the trail to retrieve the animal. Then along comes Joe, he sees the trackks, and then follows them to take a look. Wa-la, you have a "new" trail.

I was in the Wyoming high country a couple years ago. There is a trail open for ATV use. We rode horses in and then camped 3 miles from the open trail. The afternoon before the hunt there were 4 ATVs 1/2 mile from our camp. There were 2 ATVs that had driven up a long, 2 mile meadow. There were 2 more ATVs that had scratched their way out a long ridge. Opening morning, 2 of these guys just rode their ATVs around, off trail, out through the trees and down every ridge they could get on. So, I can't provide you with pictures, but I KNOW the damage they caused and the new trails that are used today by those who don't know better.

You seem just be stirring the pot, not wanting to recognize the obvious. ATVs are causing damage to the habitat, the animals, and the experience of those who don't want one in the same canyon. I say this as my Polaris ATV sits in the garage.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-16-05 AT 11:31AM (MST)[p]Your original question was --
Anybody have photo evidence that ATV's cause damage to the environment, cause I ain't seen any yet, just a bunch of hot air...?...
I think that question has been answered fairly and in an adult manner.

Now if you are changing the question and asking about people that use them ethically and with regard to the environment, then I guess there is not problem.

Manny, from the attached photos would you agree that indeed, AVT's cause damage to the environment? Would you also agree some of the damage shown in the pictures will definitely not be gone by next season?

I see lots of other problems with ATV off-road use other than the environmental damage, including habitat fragmentation, big game security issues and disregard for other peoples hunting experiences.

I tried to answer this as an "adult answer", so I would ask the same from you on the questions I brought forward.

One more thing, and don't take this personally. You mentioned your legs are shot, but you still crave to get into the woods. Does this mean that all hunters that may not be physically able (due to age or lack of physical fittness) to access some areas due to distance or terrain, should be allowed to utilize motorized equipment so they can get to the same place another person spent 2 days hiking to get to?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-16-05 AT 11:38AM (MST)[p]The ATV doesn't do squat to the enviroment. It's the 'tard driving it that does the damage.

Same argument that we have been having over guns for decades now. Does the gun kill or does the person holding it?

BTW, in a lot of those pictures, the tire tracks look too wide to ALL be ATV's. I'll bet there are a lot of Jeep tracks in those pictures too.
 
This is a very loaded question.

Do ATVs cause damage? Arguably yes. Do they cause MORE Damage than other vehicles? Singly I would say no, in groups I would say yes... but a group of 10 atvs vs a group of 10 4x4 trucks? No.

Alot of the pictures shown above are also misleading, they are taken in the fall where alot of the strawlike grasses are easily flattened leaving distinct trails... but the ground itself is fine. In cases like that a person walking or even a game trail is just as easily left behind.

Vehicle vs Vehicle, I think ATV's do less damage. Its the bulk of use that causes the extreme damage seen... ATVs seem to be the vehicle of choice right now )until hover cars become the norm LOL) but if ATVs were suddenly replaced with Jeeps and other vehicles alot of the percieved damage would still exist.

And about the horse trail comment, yes horses tear the hell out of things where they are used frequently.
 
Earlier in the summer, we were ridding ATV's up Farmington Canyon, on the approved trails. After riding several hours back behind the towers, we started venturing towards the lakes on the back side of the peaks up there. We came to a road that had a big road closed sign on it. We all parked there and started walking down the trail and within a few minutes we could hear engines coming up from the canyon below us (on the closed trail). Within a few minutes, we were shocked to see 9 Jeeps coming up the road. We stopped them and asked them what in the world they were doing on this trail and they told us that the road closed sign only pertained to ATV's, not Jeeps.
What a joke! I happen to agree with what several of you have stated that it isn't the ATV or the Jeep that is the problem, rather the driver!
 
An ATV is a great tool when used properly to achieve access to areas that may not be safe for travel by vehicle due to snow, ice, spring thaw, etc. That is what I did on my permit hunt, just used it on the road (which by the way is not restricted on state lands) to access areas that had narrow slick outsloping snow covered roads that made me pucker in my full size pickup. Once I got to my destination, I parked it and beat the ground. I personally feel offended by those that use them irresponsibly. Just like many of you, I've hiked for an hour into an area by flashight before first light to be setup overlooking an open hillside at shooting hour. And as it begins to be light enough to see antlers on the deer across the canyon, you hear some a-hole riding an ATV into your favorite spot. I also get pissed when I hear those loud 2 stroke racing quads in the woods. The woods are a place for quiet and that's what I love about being out there. The 4 stroke muffled quads are really quite mild for noise and they're okay. I agree with everyone that there is a place for them and places they should never be. For example, those desert areas around Ellensburg and Yakima that are on green dot systems. The places that those idiots road illegally out thru the sagebrush will take decades to recover "IF" nobody else perpetuates their trail. I use one at work everyday as a surveyor in NE WA to pack equipment in the mountainous forests that I work in. ATV"s are incredible workhorses. They save time and effort to achieve whatever destination desired. But if used irresposibly, they may be outlawed for everyone including those of us that follow the rules and use good judgement about disturbing the land. That said, I better quit cause I could probably go on all day about it. To sum it up, ATV's are a great tool when used properly.
 
I enjoy riding my ATV as much as anyone. I can tell you that there are many scars in our beautiful wilderness made by the misuse of ATVs. One trip down to retrieve downed game will not destroy anything, but repeated trips in non-approved areas will.

This is a touchy subject. If we can't police ourselves no one else is going to do it. We need to do a better job of teaching our kids to respect the outdoors and not tear up a hillside just because its there. I have seen this during the summer. Kids driving in places they shouldn't be and the parents watching, drinking a cold one in camp.
 
Stirring what pot! Damb man can't we all just get along....LOL...

just like any other debate, there are pro's and con's, but it's up to the individual to make up his or her minds as to what they ride in the woods...no pun intended..LOL..

and it's up to us to report idiots that are screwing things up for law biding citizens, jeepster's & ATV's alike but I personally would not want to be harassed if I did decide to get another one (ATV)...

Well then again I could always hire a horse, with all the rental service they have now-a-ays..

I made this post because some here made snive remarks in the post with the guy buck tied to his ATV..

As I said earlier when I had an ATV I never made a mess nor a trail other then knocking down the wheat grass
 
On public land in the U.S., ATV's should be allowd to use the same roads full size rigs are allowed. They should have too drive next too, behind, or in front of other rigs. They should have to follow the same standards and rules as a full size rig.

They never should be allowed off main roads, especially when the roads are wet or have snow. There still are far too many places where ATV's are legal. Thanks to the efforts of a few good leaders and people who understand the importance of protecting wildlife, we are well on our way to fixing that huge problem.

In any event, there still are far too many atv's and far too many people who ride them outside the current laws. The results are that we are slowly shutting down trails and roads to atv's all because way too may people just cant follow the rules.



"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
ATV misuse must be stopped. If ATV's are allowed on existing truck passable routes, MANY of them will leave those routes. This has been proven time and time and time and time and time and time again but the FS keeps allowing ATV's on truck roads because "you can't let the irresponsible people ruin it for responsible riders". How about the "responsible" people quit using their ATV's anywhere on public lands and then the forest service could simply ban the machines and then that ban would only effect the "irresponsible" riders and there would be no more damage. Seems to me that would be a pretty responsible thing to do. The time has come, people are realizing the disaster that the increased amount of motor vehicle access has brought upon the big game animals in the Western United States.

Why do you think the Forest Service made the Timpanogos Face main road off-limits to ATV's and dirtbikes? Cuz they wouldnt stay on the road! That type of closer is going to become a very common thing over the next five years and i couldnt be any more happier.

-pinenut
 
pinenut:

Just being devils advocate here.

With that line of thinking, maybe all the "responsible" and lawful HUNTERS should just quit hunting so the poachers out there would be the only ones in the woods, thus making less of an impact on the deer herd AND making them easier to catch for law enforcement???? Would that be the "responsible" thing to do as well????? :)

BOHNTR )))---------->
 
>Just being devils advocate here.
>
>With that line of thinking, maybe
>all the "responsible" and lawful
>HUNTERS should just quit hunting
>so the poachers out there
>would be the only ones
>in the woods, thus making
>less of an impact on
>the deer herd AND making
>them easier to catch for
>law enforcement???? Would that
>be the "responsible" thing to
>do as well????? :)

LOL I was just thinking that as well...!
 
Bob, your brain is a mass of cranial nerve tissue, most of it is in mint condition.



"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
B_F_E,

What is this ridiculous comment about pioneers damaging the environment? You are kidding right?

Opportunitst,

Isn't a jeep an ALL TERRAIN VEHICLE?



People that poach, ride ATV's illegally and claim other people's animals are all SLOBS. There should be a season on SLOBS. No limit.
ATV misuse really gets my attention.
 
Horses cause a lot of damage? Now come on guys. There is no comparison of an abuse ATV area and horses walking through the same place. A horse trail is generally a maintained trail used by horse riders and hikers. The trails are specifically cleared for this traffic. You ride a wheeler through the bushes and the marks are there for a while. Ride a horse through and the tracks are erased after the first good rain storm.

I guess if horses cause too much damage then so does an elk, deer, and moose. Tie the horse up and some damage occurs, but not much.

ATV's are easily acquired, have the ability to travel most places, and are convienent. Combine all this together and it is a recipe for trouble. They are a useful tool, but can be a detriment also. I own an ATV and a horse. Both have advantages. I can go where ATV's can't on a horse but only carry a 12 pack. My ATV can go faster, but a 24 pack can easily be taken with.;-)
 
I guess what I am beginning to gather from this thread is that ALL poaching takes place off of an ATV and prior to ATV's there was no poaching problems?

Mike
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hey manny ? :) my best answer to your question would be this ,,, are YOU going to abide by the OHV route markers rules ect ect ? and stay on the places where the atv quads are legal ? by reading your posts in the past it seems to me like you follow the rules,,, so i say get you a quad and save your knees and enjoy yourself ,,,, and yes we have quads for our grove :) and no we have never taken them hunting , but as long as you follow the rules have at it :)
 
JUDAS FRICKEN PRIEST MANNYt!!!

GET REAL MANNY!!!

TRY OPENING YOUR EYES!!!

EVIDENTALLY YOU NEVER GET OFF MAIN STREET RIGHT???

YOU WANT TO SEE DAMAGE,STOP BY I'LL TAKE YOU UP & SHOW YOU DAMAGE DONE BY LOWLIFES!!!

YOU WANT TO SEE A PISTON THAT NOW LOOKS LIKE A JIG-SAW PUZZLE,I'LL SHOW YOU ONE OF THEM ALSO!!!

PLEASE SHAKE YOURSELF & WAKE UP TO THE NEW MELLENIUM!!!

LAW BREAKING ATV'ERS SUCK,THANK YOU!!!

bubba WON'T LIKE THIS ONE:I HOPE THEY BAN THESE BASTARDS OFF THE FOREST & MAKE IT OPEN SEASON ON PLUG WIRES & PISTONS!!!

THE ONLY bobcat SUGGESTING TO OBEY THE RULES & YOU'LL NEVER ONCE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT A HIGH ELEVATION TUNE-UP!!!
 
RE: do ATV's cause damage..?

I'm don't understand why this issue is so heated ALL THE TIME. There will ALWAYS be folks that break the laws - won't change! Public land is all about MULTIPLE USE! You can't say one machine is too loud and allow another. Different people like to do different things on THEIR public land. Why is it o.k. to ride a snowmobile on snow, but not an ATV? Our family owns active cattle and horse ranches in the lower 48 and they do an incredible amount of damage to ground, especially around water sources. I live on Kodiak Island (Alaska) and brown bears have deep trails all over the island. The U.S. F & W Service says mountain goats are damaging the Kodiak National Refuge. Don't tell me animals don't damage the land. The only difference to me between a horse and an ATV is the horse is more quiet. Being a disabled Vet I happen to believe disabled folks should have an opportunity to hunt public land too, and I appreciate those states which provide that! The bottom line for me is create a law, pay for enforcement - as much as you can stand, and most of the people will behave. You can only hope to catch the ones that don't. Everybody is a special interest and noone can accept anything other than their view. Quit being so selfish!
 
RE: do ATV's cause damage..?

1Bigdeer.. interesting you live on Kodiak,, I have been there a few times. your a lucky man.

I guess the difference between quads in Alaska and quads in the lower 48 is that there are so many more people crowded in a relatively small area.

1big its not about being selfish I think, its about being respectful.

atleast here in AZ they are taking steps in the national forest.

they are a problem in some forest they have to be licensed. soon in all forest they will HAVE to stay on rds. other areas will be completely closed to them.. I am glad they really are a huge problem. but it will be corrected soon.. once again a few bad apples ruin it for everyone.. not that I really care I wouldnt get on one if you paid me thats how much I hate them because of my run in with them.
 
RE: do ATV's cause damage..?

there is nothing wrong with atv's; I have no problem with them being allowed to go where other vehicles are allowed. The problem with them (at least were mule deer are concerned) is not in the environmental damage they do, a few ruts off road are not going to bother a mule deer, it is the fact that they are so easily taken off of the road and driven cross country. What is played out over and over in the West with ATV's is that, there will be a jeep trail that leads up a mountain in a BLM area, The area is mostly big open canyons. The ATV's are taken off road and are used to "run the canyons" down one side, up the other, than systematically move onto the next series of canyons. In a period of a couple of hours, an ATV can literally run up and down canyons that would have taken a person walking several days to hunt.

Now, the terrain is just rough enough that a PU can't do it, and most people are to lazy to get out of the PU and actually walk the canyons, so the deer have something of a safe haven. The ATV's are deadly in the open areas of the West were mule deer thrive.

Why do you hear very little about ATV's in elk hunting??? It is because most elk hunting is done in rugged, steep, heavily forested areas, areas where the ATV's can only drive on the roads with the rest of the vehicles.

The solutution is not to ban the ATV's, but rather make the violation for driving off of the road so bad that people won't do it. This solution still allows for the lawful use of ATV's, but should discourage their off road use.
 
RE: do ATV's cause damage..?

However, some people may just want to go camping with their kids and not have constant Quads zooming up and down the rds.

I agree with most of what you say.. they should have to stay on rds. and penaltys should be so stiff they will..

but other areas should be quad free for people who want some peace and quite in the forest. its their forest too now they have nowhere to go.
 
RE: do ATV's cause damage..?

Manny ,
I'll try to keep this as 'adult' as possible .

ATV's are the worst thing that has ever happened to hunting . The Slobs will ride their machines anywhere that they can get them to . I've seen them chase antelope and shoot from their seats while riding .I've seen slobs on ATVs ride behind their dogs waiting for a point so they can get off and shoot without breaking a sweat . This lazy attitude is being passed onto kids as well , there are future slob hunters being taught that all you need is a full tank of gas and a total lack of ambition .
My favorite winter range here in Nevada now looks like an off-road park from slob hunters too lazy to walk . There are trails in every canyon and ridge , there are no winter sanctuaries left and the deer have altered their migration habits forever .
Not only do they cause damage , but the damage is irreversible . Every fall the slobs exercise their right to be lazy and watch their asses grow while hunting , why walk up the mountain when you can ride your machine !
When you have your own hunting area ruined as I have you'll know how I feel .
Anyone caught off-road on an ATV should have their balls cut off so their lazy/slob hunter gene cannot contaminate the rest of the population .
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-16-05 AT 10:40PM (MST)[p]DAMB, some uptight fellas around here, some of you are not thinking rationally man, Bobcat' your a nut! ?You would vandalize a Quad if you saw it in the woods?...that's like the animal activist PETA dude I saw on 20-20 the other night, he said and I quote "the scientist's who use animal's for experiments should be murdered"!...

How are you any different then that wacko..?...
 
RE: do ATV's cause damage..?

HHHHHMMMMMMM Well since everybody breaks the law then take away cars because everybody speeds, that will solve it, along with motor vehicle deaths and roadkill, and the construction of new highways and freeways and smog, and carbon dioxide emissions.

I guess since everybody hates atvs, now is my chance to try out my new chute plane.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-16-05 AT 11:01PM (MST)[p]Ill bite.

the quad is parked somewhere it shouldnt be, after driving places it shouldnt. and is parked illegally after causing harm to the environment. I would put a round in the gas tank too, or walk up and cut something.


the peta dude is saying he will murder someone who is doing something legal, moral and ethical.

3 things many quad "hunters" have no idea about
 
Did you really just mention "legal" "moral" and "ethical" right after stating you are willing to commit a felony, and loose your rights to own a gun forever by shooting up someones atv?

Geeze MM has become a sad sad place lately.
 
NOW I'VE BEEN CALLED A NUT!!!

WAKE THE HELL UP MANNY!!!

YOU'RE TELLING ME YOU'VE NEVER SEEN DAMAGE BY LAWBREAKING ATV'ERS,AGAIN OPEN YOUR EYES & WAKE THE HELL UP!!!

WHAT I'M TELLING YOU Manny,IS THERE ARE SEVERAL AGGITATED ETHICAL HUNTERS IN THE AREA THAT ARE FED UP WITH LOWLIFES DESTROYING PRIME HUNTING AREA'S WITH ATV'S,GET THE PICTURE!!!

A FEW OF THEM DONE THE SO CALLED RIGHT THING BY TURNING THEM INTO THE FOREST SERVICE,NOTHING EVER HAPPENED,GET THE PICTURE???

EVERY YEAR THERE ARE MORE ILLEAGAL TRAILS BUSTED THROUGH THE WOODS,EVERY NOOK & CRANNY HAS LOWLIFE ATV TRAILS BLAZED UP THROUGH THE TIMBER IN FLAT ASS CLOSED AREA'S,GET THE PICTURE???

IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMON SENSE AT ALL ABOUT THE FUTURE OF HUNTING OR THE FUTURE OF HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS(YOU KNOW WHAT KIDS ARE,RIGHT???)YOU MIGHT WANT TO WAKE UP NOW & SEE THE LIGHT,GET THE PICTURE???

ONE OF THESE DAYS YOU'LL WAKE UP,GO HUNTING BUT THERE IS NOTHING LEFT TO HUNT,BUT OH BOY YOU'LL BE ABLE TO DRIVE EVERY PATCH OF TREE'S ON THAT WHEELER,FOR WHAT LITTLE BIT OF GOOD IT WILL DO YOU,GET THE PICTURE???

YOU CAN CALL ME A NUT IF YOU'D LIKE,IF I'M A NUT,THERE ARE SEVERAL NUTS IN THE AREA & POSTERS ABOVE ME HERE,GET THE PICTURE???

DO YOU THINK JUST BECAUSE YOU OWN A WHEELER IT'S YOUR RIGHT TO RIP PUBLIC GROUND TO HELL,GET A LIFE!!!

THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL WHEELERS TUNED IN CLOSED AREA'S,NOT AS MANY AS THERE SHOULD OF BEEN,BUT GOOD HUNTERS ARE GETTING MORE TIRED OF THE BULL$HIT BY THE YEAR & THERE ARE SOME THOUGHTS OF TAKING THE LAW INTO THEIR OWN HANDS SINCE THE LAW OFFICIALS WON'T ENFORCE THE LAWS THEY MAKE,GET THE PICTURE???

I'M TELLING YOU RIGHT TO YOUR FACE THERE ARE HUNTERS THAT WILL TUNE YOUR MACHINE FREE OF CHARGE IN CLOSED & PRIMITIVE AREA'S,REMEMBER YOU BREAKING THE LAW TO TAKE THE WHEELER INTO CLOSED AREA'S DOESN'T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO BEACH ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES YOU'LL RECEIVE,GET THE PICTURE???

NOW IT SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE THIS WAY,BUT SINCE A BUNCH OF PEOPLE DON'T USE THAT ROUND THING ATOP THERE SHOULDERS I SUPPOSE THE FREE TUNE-UPS ARE HERE TO STAY,THAT OR LAW BREAKERS WILL START OBEYING THE RULES,WHICH DO YOU THINKS GOING TO HAPPEN???

DON'T TELL ME YOU'VE NEVER SEEN ANY DAMAGE!!!

THE ONLY bobcat CAN'T EVEN BELIEVE A QUESTION LIKE THAT,I THINK YOU'D BETTER STOP WATCHING THE PETA GUY'S,GET AWAY FROM THE TV ONCE IN A WHILE & TAKE A LOOK OF WHATS REALLY GOING ON IN THE WILD,MAYBE YOU HAVEN'T NOTICED ANY CHANGES IN THE MOUNTAINS BUT ME & SEVERAL OTHERS HAVE!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-05 AT 07:18AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-05 AT 06:49?AM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-05 AT 06:48?AM (MST)

Here is a challenge for you atv guys. If you're so intent on protecting your "rights" to ride, why dont you invite more atv's to your favorite hunting spot? For those that ride into areas that have good gene pools of deer and elk, why dont you just announce your hunting spots to the ATV guys that way all of you can get together in the same area and wheel around. I think if you atv guys were inundated with other atv's in your "remote" hunting areas you would find that it's much better to just park the atv and have a good hunt than it is to allow atv's to destroy it for everyone, including you.

You know, there just are too many people and too much access to technology; couple that with people who will abuse the laws and the land ethics and you end up with the situation we now are in. The weak laws and the appetite some have to push the limits of our organized society (they are a relatively small group) are essentially destroying experiences for far too many -- soon they will pay. I believe we must control the demand for atv's, and get grass-roots about shutting them down. It now is obvious that a very large segment of the atv world cannot ignore a hill or mountain, even if it's closed. I dont wish ill on people who drive atv's in areas where they dont belong, but they are damaging the entire fabric of our hunting heritage. Oh yea,it is the ATV's for those that want to make the rediculous argument that atv's dont do the damage, the people do - that's just a red-herring and an easy way to NOT take responsiblity for your actions. The atv does not have a life of it's own - it does not care what you think, it's a machine and it takes a rider to make it go. Without the atv there would be far fewer problems.

Here's my suggestion. Keep it up atv guys, soon you all will be hunting together, riding ridges where you won't even see a deer or elk. The growth of atv users and the abuse they have caused to our land cannot be allowed to continue and expand. Soon, you people will be back to driving roads but with your ATV in the back of your truck.



"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
TFinalshot

GLAD YOU & OTHERS CAN SEE WHATS HAPPENING!!!

I CAN PULL THE ETHICAL HUNTERS OUT OF THIS THREAD IN A HEARTBEAT!!!

I SWEAR TO GOD SOME PEOPLE CAN'T SEE PAST THE END OF THEIR NOSE!!!

THE ONLY bobcat GUT SHOOTING LAW-BREAKING ATV'S IN CLOSED AREA'S,DID I SAY THAT,YES I DID!!!
 
ummm i dont even hunt off the darn things , or ride one in the hills ,,, but am i reading these things right ? you guys are talking about vandilizing quads that you see breaking the law ? ummm since when did breaking a law to punish what you think is a lawbreaker become right ? the old 2 wrongs dont make a right thing ,,,, if i ever do ride one i sure hope i dont catch someone screwing with it ,,, geeze manny what a thread u started lol
 
Tyler. . . who are "you guys?"

I hope no one gets the impression that I'm advocating damage or illeagle approaches, I'm not. Everything that I do or work on to reduce atv access, is throught the public process.



"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
Gosh!! Say it isnt so! Another ATV thread. What a novel idea. Can we make a forum for ATV's so those that are tired of this subject dont have to see it?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-05 AT 08:38AM (MST)[p]Hey jizzmoose, did you see the title in the thread? Why did you open it? Just cant resiste the truth, can yah?

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-05 AT 08:32AM (MST)[p]"Can we make a forum for ATV's so those that are tired of this subject dont have to see it?" I second that motion...

Those who are going to thumb their noses at the law and ethical thinking, will always be on the outside of reason. And, trying to have a rational "discussion" is futile.
If a person is going to poach, break the law, ride ANY type of vehicle where the signs clearly say not to, throw beer cans out the window, or any of the same kind of dumb outlaw behavior, then have the huevos to brag and post about it as if it's acceptable behavior is beyond rational "disscussion". Not all those who ride are bad or break the law, but a poacher is a poacher, a law breaker is a law breaker, etc...
If the shoe fits, you know who you are...

Lets get back to hunting!










Stop Global Whining
 
RE: JUDAS FRICKEN PRIEST MANNYt!!!

Bobcat,

I give you permission to tune-up my ATV if you ever find it where it shouldn't be.

BTW, If they outlaw ATVs on forest service land, can I come out to Altamont and drive around your house?
 
Manny, unless the reason for this thread was to only stir the pot, your question was answered during the first 10 posts. Leaves little doubt to your question in my opinion. Would you at least agree that your question was answered?
 
Yes my Q's was answered, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I now know, that there are irrational people everywhere, that'll damage my property or myself, if I do something they deem wrong!...

I'll make up my own mind up weather I'll buy another ATV or not. I don't believe that ATV's have any part of the decline of mule deer & elk Habitat nor the population decline either!...over hunting in a given area, Mt Lions and too many home?s in wintering areas is the major problem with that, but that's another subject...

I heard of a guy who saw an ATV in a designated road-less area walked back to his truck got a chain and a locked the ATV to a huge tree, reported it and went on his merry way, no damage or any illegal actions on his part?

Bobcat? no offence man but, no matter what your words may sound kool or tuff I pray no one with them kind of ideas gets elected to any type of governing board, cause with that kinda mentality, there?d be dead body?s laying out in the wilderness area?s everywhere? end of subject for me?
 
In some states you can use deadly force to protect your property, including the lowly ATV.
 
Manny,

Seems to be a hot topic lately. Something interesting this year that I am not to happy about, and really trying to figure out the difference here is..

Mount Timpanogas here in UT, Forest service outlaws ATV usage around the face of the mountain. However you can take a Motorcycle out there, and a 4x4.. but no ATV. So, a motorcycle that can do 10x as much damage to the wilderness is legal, but an ATV is not?? I don't get it!

I think that do to those that think they have the right to do whatever they want, whenever they want we all have to suffer. Those people shouldn't be allowed to share the same rights others do, however in our society and because of people we all have to suffer now.

I think there's pro's and con's to this. I am personally thinking that it's dumb, but again Im just one person in a sea of millions.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-05 AT 10:30AM (MST)[p]>In some states you can use
>deadly force to protect your
>property, including the lowly ATV.
>


I think protecting one's self would stand up in court alot better, seeings how it would take place on public property, just like when you catch some one treaspassing, all you can do is take a license # down and show them the way out, cause if you try and hold them it's false imprisonment...
 
Last year on the manti lasals I caught three four wheelers a mile past the fence line. They took the fence down, this isnt a small fence either. There signs that say no ATV every 20 feet, I'm sick of these slob hunters!!!! If you cant pack out an animal in a no ATV area DONT hunt there!!!!!!
 
I consider jeeps, 4-wheelers, motorcycles, tracked vehicles, and other similar rides to be ATV's. I do not distinguish between them; they all tear apart the fabric or our hunting heritage and cause animals to seek hiding places.

Finalshot



"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
MuleyMadman79-The motorcycle would have to be street legal...and there are plenty of people working to close that "loophole" so that will not be an issue much longer.

Manny- i dont believe that ATV's have caused much of a reduction in population numbers or the amount of browse for deer and elk to feed on it any given area...but they have UNDENIABLY significantly reduced the amount of areas that male deer and elk can live through several hunting seasons to become mature trophies. That is what we are saying!

Reduce permits or reduce roads...I choose the second option!

-RPinenut
 
>Did you really just mention "legal"
>"moral" and "ethical" right after
>stating you are willing to
>commit a felony, and loose
>your rights to own a
>gun forever by shooting up
>someones atv?
>
>Geeze MM has become a sad
>sad place lately.

hmmm I dont think its a felony , probably something else.. Its not like I am hurting the Quad with a rider on it.

is it a felony if someone vandalises my truck in a parking lot?

I actually kinda hope so , but I am sure its not

A good idea would be to make it a felony for quad to drive off of designated rds..

I like someones Idea of having some log chain and a stiff lock with you.. I like that a lot.. to bad they are so heavy to carry into roadless areas.. much easier to let the air out of all four tires.
 
If a person is going to poach, break the law, ride ANY type of vehicle where the signs clearly say not to, throw beer cans out the window, or any of the same kind of dumb outlaw behavior, then have the huevos to brag and post about it as if it's acceptable behavior is beyond rational "disscussion". Not all those who ride are bad or break the law, but a poacher is a poacher, a law breaker is a law breaker, etc...
If the shoe fits, you know who you are...

Lets get back to hunting!

i kinda like that one :)
 
Manny, Near where I live there is a 90,000 acre chunk of state forest land. Many of the roads in this forest are gated, especially in the winter and spring. However, ATV's are allowed behind these gates. The gates are only meant to keep out full size vehicles, which are much heavier than ATV's, and have the potential of doing a lot of damage to the roads when they are wet. Also these full size vehicles (pickups) are what people use to dump garbage in the forest. How many people use ATV's to haul garbage into the woods and illegally dump it? Anyway, just wanted to point this out. In this case, ATV's are actually seen as being evnironmentally "friendly." It's all in how they are used. You guys who want to completely ban ATV's from public lands...are you also going to ban jeeps and other similar 4x4's with a short wheel base that are capable of going many of the same places the ATV's are going? Good luck.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-05 AT 02:22PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-05 AT 02:21?PM (MST)

I may be wrong, but I think no one here has a problem with ATV's and their use on designated roads open for motorized travel.

Keep it on the road, where it belongs, and I have zero problems.

It's dipshits like these guys that piss me off. The first time I crossed the bridge they were taking turns tearing through the creek. At least they were smart enough to get out the second time I came around with the camera.

P1090730.JPG
 
This is nothing more than the "jealous factor" that seems to be so rampant here. If you have it or claim to have it (which is more the case) then everyone that dont have is green with jealousy. The forest service and game wardens both use atvs, oh my God, they are depleting our land aswell then. Give their quads tune ups too. Just make it go away.
 
Well, I haven't read the whole post, but wanted to comment on something. What effect do two marks in the grass have on the wildlife? Seriously, it's a lot like the Alaskan Pipeline (oil). It didn't effect the wildlife, they kept on living and doing just what they do. It doesn't kill any deer (directly at least).

Now, I'm not for Offroad ATV use. Especially in hunting areas. The reason I'm against it is because it tends to push the deer (and other wildlife) out of the area that they used to roam freely, without much worry given to hunters or people in general. Now it makes it even harder to find deer, and it makes it harder to harvest that buck of a lifetime.

However, ATV's do have their limits, and there's many areas that are even too rugged for an ATV. Plus they tend to stay close to trails in general (I've never seen an ATV more than 1/4 mile away from a road, you just don't see them making miles and miles of trails).

Just my .02

Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
 
Michael ,
I've seen them ten miles from the nearest road , granted this was in Nevada and mostly flat , but these areas are easy to walk into. It's not some tracks in the grass it's the loss of the animals' sanctuary that destroys the habitat . Animals need roadless places to survive , it's that simple .
 
Point well taken. I understand, and the loss of the "animals' sanctuary" is related to the points that I made.

Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
 
I generally try to steer away from post of this matter but feel I have something to add.

I think that a lot of energy is wasted here preaching to the choir so to speak. I highly doubt that many if any at all MM members are the ones abusing ATV's. You guys are a very small minority of hunters and land users. The fact is that the majority of hunters could give a rip about these matters. A big percentage of hunters (probably higher than we think) just see hunting as something that they do once a year. They use it as a vacation from the job, city, family, whatever. A chance to spend a week partying and hanging out with their buddies. These people are the majority and just want to enjoy themselves shoot a buck if the chance is given and not worry about anything. They don't live in the area or spend countless days scouting. These people aren't on MM on a daily basis. I doubt they have even heard of it. They aren't that interested. They show up, use the land, and could care less about the impact of ATV's, over hunting or anything else. This is the truth and the wildlife agencys know it. This is the biggest part of license and tag sales so not too much is going to be done to make sales decline.

As far as impact on the land, I would say that recreational ORV use is far more damaging than just hunters. These are the people that we need to be preaching to. Let them know when you see them abusing the land that what they are doing is wrong. In the pic above of the guys by the creek, they don't look like they are hunting anything. Most guys when approached and told what they are doing is wrong will realize that in fact it is. Sad to say but most people don't think about the impact they are leaving behind untill it's presented to them. If you think they are well aware of what they are doing then report them.

I'm not for closing any areas that already allow ORV use. I think too much of our freedom as Americans is already in jeapordy. And if you don't know, there are as many ORV organizations that are fighting to keep these areas open as there are trying to shut them down. Just do a search around on the web for ATV or other ORV type forums and you will see that they far outnumber hunting forums.

What has to happen is enforcing laws and people policing each other. Obiously self control is not a strong suit for most people so they just need constant reminding of what not to do. Also education is a key. People need to be informed about the impact of their actions.

I'll get off my soap box now.


-Lowedog
 
May not be exactly on subject, but... Check out the picture in the current issue of Field and Stream. I'll try to scan and post it, but if you get the mag, check out the article about an eastern guide. It shows them crossing a home made log bridge, two guys on one atv, the passenger holding his rifle in his hands. The picture shows another atv behind this one, with the driver using one hand and holding his rifle with the other.
 
Lowedog

YOU SURE ARE NICE!!!

I LIKE THE POLICING EACH OTHER PART!!!

AGAIN,AS I MENTIONED EARLIER,USING THAT ROUND THING ATOP YOUR SHOULDERS USUALLY HELPS!!!

MichaelJ

MAYBE YOU HAVEN'T SEEN MUCH DAMAGE IN YOUR HUNTING AREA,BUT WHAT YOU GONNA DO WHEN IT DOES HAPPEN & IT'S DESTROYED???

BACK TO Lowedog

THE ONLY ENERGY WASTED HERE IS WHEN MY 600 GRAIN SLUG MAKES A COMPLETE PASS THROUGH THE GUTS OF A WHEELER SITTING IN A CLOSED OR PRIMITIVE AREA!!!

KINDA LIKE PREACHING TO THE CHOIR SO TO SPEAK!!!

YOU'RE RIGHT,FOR THE MOST PART IT'S NOT MM MEMBERS RIPPING THE HELL OUT OF PUBLIC LAND!!!

HERES A QUESTION FOR THE LAWBREAKERS THAT THINK IT'S THEIR RIGHT TO DO AS THEY PLEASE!!!

YOU EVER GET THAT BAD-ASS GRIZZLY,SPORTSMAN,RUBICON OR BOMBARDIER OUT & JUST RIP THE HELL OUT OF YOUR OWN FRONT LAWN OR YOU NEIGHBORS FRONT LAWN???

YOU EVER GO DOWN TO THE LOCAL SCHOOL OR PARK AND RIP IT UP WITH YOUR WHEELERS???

WELL THE LAW WOULDN'T TOLLERATE THAT!!!

BOTH PUBLIC GROUND RIGHT???

I WON'T TOLLERATE IT IN CLOSED AREA'S OR PRIMITIVE!!!

TELL ME THE DIFFERENCE,GO AHEAD YOU SMART-ASSES JUST TELL ME THE DIFFERENCE!!!

SOMEBODY'S BOUND TO BE MAD FOR WHAT I'VE SAID & HAVE A REAL GOOD ANSWER!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING WHAT Lowedog SAID IS RIGHT,POLICING JACK-ASSES IS THE ONLY WAY IT WILL EVER WORK,IF THE LAW CAN'T GET THEIR ATTENTION MAYBE THIS WILL!!!
 
Resist the truth? That ATV's do damage? Of course they do. Im not a fan of ATV's. I hate seeing them out there, I dont own one, wont own one, and no one in my family owns one. Im just sick of this topic. Could it be anymore burnt out? I looked at the thread only to see if this was anything out of the norm. Nope.
 
HEY UDDER!!!

udder

HOW THE HELL ARE YA???

AND HOW'D YOU EVER LAY THEM MILKERS DOWN LONG ENOUGH TO MAKE A POST???

DID YOU DO ANY HUNTING THIS YEAR???

THIS HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH JEALOUSY!!!

IT HAS ALOT TO DO WITH SELFISNESS,SO SELFISH THESE LAWBREAKERS CAN'T SEE PAST THE END OF THEIR NOSES!!!

THAT WOULD BE LIKE ME SAYING I'M MAD & JEALOUS OF YOU BECAUSE YOU GET MORE TEAT THAN I DO,HELL WE ALL KNOW YOU DO GET MORE & I'M NOT MAD!!!

I HAVEN'T HEARD FROM YOU IN A WHILE,MORE TEAT THAN EVER OR WHATS THE DEAL???

SO MUCH DEMAND YOU CAN'T TALK TO US ONCE IN A WHILE???

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING THINGS MUST BE GETTING SERIOUS,udder HAS EVEN CAME TO THE RESCUE!!!
 
Udder, would you mind explaining the "jealousy factor,? I have a hard time trying to convince myself that I'm jealous of anyone rippen around on an atv. Please explain to us the "jealously factor."

The point of all this is that we (people) cannot continue to abuse, at ever increasing and more destructive rates, our public lands. The destruction is out of control. It's getting worse as more people move west, or east from the coastal regions, and take up housing in more remote areas, they bring with them a lack a land ethic (most are just ignorant or improperly educated, or both). Add to that, lots of money (toys, including atvs, boats, personal watercraft, etc.), and you have a George Bush mentality or, the no limits mindset. We have to take it upon ourselves to restrain, as much as possible, from impacting our fellow man - even while hunting. The way I see it, that means no atvs, regardless of environmental damage; the atvs in the back county, ruins the outdoor experience for everyone but the guy riding one, and cause wildlife to flee.

Have you noticed that most, not all, but most of the guys that use atv in the mountains, are the ones that live in town, or in a housing develpment and haul their units on the back of a truck or a long trailer to OUR backyard to ride. They don't go to private land, no landowner (outside of an official atv park) would allow that kind of destruction and complete disrespect for the land. They don't ride their atv to the mountains, they haul them. Why don't ATVs just stay in town or go to an atv track made for such abuse, and tear up that place?


"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
Looks like your either in the minority, or the only one that's willing to speak up. In any event, it's good to hear from someone who's asking others to shut up.



"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
Other than the GWBush slur "have a George Bush mentality"(I suppose this issue is GWB fault as well), I tend to aggree with most that you said:
"It's getting worse as more people move west, or east from the coastal regions, and take up housing in more remote areas, they bring with them a lack a land ethic (most are just ignorant or improperly educated, or both). Add to that, lots of money (toys, including atvs, boats, personal watercraft, etc.)," especially the part about the more money, more toys and lack of self control...
Out here in California, all you have to do is take a drive up or down the coast on 101 or the 405 and EVERY single vacant piece of land (public and private)from SF to SD has OHV trails/scars on it. These are not the tracks of people riding from point A-Z, these are the scars of ripping and shredding, just for the sake of tearing up something/anything... And this is not limited to the dirt, try to experience a quiet afternoon at any lake.
I have nothing against anyone riding for pleasure "on the roads or the water" or physically challenged people accessing their hunting areas, but I do have a big problem with the slobs and lack of self control. It is a far cry from riding a horse into the wilderness, and the ripping and shredding for the thrill out it on "any vehicle". There is a BIG DIFFERENCE.
Just my two cents...
Now lets get back to hunting!

Stop Global Whining
 
Don't worry bobtard. This is my last post unless I can help someone here, guess I said that before, whah. I am have contacted an old friend in the DA's office in Denver and he has friends of friends in Utah, etc., etc and they are checking into your terrorist threats in this thread and others against personal property and in the above thread, physical injury. I'm sure Brian will be getting a call or two in the upcoming days. Looks like you've done stuck your foot in your mouth one too many times.......... Time for this cowboy to go eat a cupcake and follow this story close.
 
WELL

I JUST GOT A CALL AT WORK FROM A FRIEND THAT SAID THE FBI WAS SITTING AT MT HOUSE,FIGURED I'D BETTER GET HOME SO I COULD TALK WITH THEM,THEY SAID SOME LITTLE WEASEAL FROM COLORADO HAD TURNED ME IN FOR TERRORIST THREATS,SAID IT WAS A WANNA-BE HUNTER NAMED PAULY FROM COLORADO!!!

THEY SAID PAULY WAS ALSO GOING TO CALL MOMMY & LET HER KNOW I'VE BEEN A BAD BOY!!!

THEY SAID HE (PAULY) WAS ALSO GOING TO CALL MY FRIEND BRIAN (FOUNDER)MAYBE INTERUPT HIS HUNT BECAUSE THE cat WAS BEING CALLED A 'STUPID IDIOT','A NUT' & NOW A 'TERRORIST'!!!

FOR A SO CALLED HUNTER THAT SAID HE'D NEVER POST AGAIN HERE ON M.M. LOOKS LIKE YOUR BACK AGAIN!!!

BY THE WAY,I TALKED TO MRS. FOUNDER VIA E-MAIL & BRIAN SHOUL'D BE HOME SOON,WHY DON'T YOU HURRY & CALL HIM ASAP!!!

THE ONLY bobcat SUGGESTING FOR YOU TO 'COWBOY-UP' OR SHUT UP!!!
 
Whoa, looks like you got kinda panicky there pussycat. I never said I emailed anyone or called anyone. Ever since 9/11 big brother doesn't take internet threats too lightly. I just made a few people aware of what was going on. I'll go eat another cupcake. Most cowboys I know don't threaten property damage or make references to murder on a public website.
 
I was out fishing one time and heard a low bogging noise....I got out of the creek and walked upstream to watch some S.O.B. driving right down the middle of the creek...I got pissed and started yelling at him to get the H#$# out of the creek...the guy probably would have got out and kicked my @$$ if my dad hadnt been there to back me up...It was during spawning season...so who knows how many fish he ended up killign. Its people like him that give ATV's a bad name.
YB
 
I just got back from a mulie hunt in western Kansas. I crawled on my belly, with my little bow and arrow, through the buffalo grass and the cactus and the soap weeds 'till my elbows and knees bled and my gut looked like a pincushion, so my question is:

Which one of those rotten ATV's do you see the most of? Does any particular model stand out in your mind as the one that can get away the fastest or climb a hill the easiest?? The dogs!!

Not that I'd ever use one off of a state or county road myself but I'd want to be sure and report it correctly ...... if I should happened to see one of those dirty rats hunting on the prairie.

: > )
 
I didn't take the time to read through this whole pile o'##### because I've heard it all before. ATV's are no different than anything else and there will always be those who abuse them. If you ban ATV's, you might as well ban guns because the arguement is no different. My guns have never killed anyone and my ATV has never been ridden where it's illegal.

Here's a little tweak on an old saying; My ATV is as responsible for causing damage as my fork is for Rosey O'Donnel being fat. I hope it's not too hard for some of you f#@%tards to understand the correlation.

This place has really gone to hell in handbasket lately! Usually the biotching and moaning doesn't start until the hunting seasons are over and people have nothing better to do....
 
>I didn't take the time to
>read through this whole pile
>o'##### because I've heard
>it all before. ATV's are
>no different than anything else
>and there will always be
>those who abuse them. If
>you ban ATV's, you might
>as well ban guns because
>the arguement is no different.
>My guns have never killed
>anyone and my ATV has
>never been ridden where it's
>illegal.
>
>Here's a little tweak on an
>old saying; My ATV is
>as responsible for causing damage
>as my fork is for
>Rosey O'Donnel being fat. I
>hope it's not too hard
>for some of you f#@%tards
>to understand the correlation.
>
>This place has really gone to
>hell in handbasket lately! Usually
>the biotching and moaning doesn't
>start until the hunting seasons
>are over and people have
>nothing better to do....



Chill out Dude, Where else can you say what you feel and have some one give you an honest opinion, even if it is biast...we all know it only take one bad apple to screw things up for others in the woods and elswhere...Manny
 
Manny15, don't tell me to chill out. You want an honest opinion, well here it is. You knew when you started this thread what the result would be, so as far as I'm concerned, you can go take a flying F#@%ing leap!
 
I could take you to many, many places that I have hunted for years that have been scarred by ATV's. I too own an ATV, however, I have chosen no use it unless I am on an existing road. It is a sickening sight to me to arrive at one of my long-time chukar "holes" only to find new trails leading up to the top of a ridge or down a draw. The damage is obvious --destroyed sage brush, rutted out roads, loss of animal habitat, destruction of burroughs and nests and contaminated water sources. I feel for you in that your health is preventing you from enjoying the outdoors to the fullest. I would encourage you to take full advantage of the many existing trails that already exist.
 
man this thread has gotten a little out of hand ,,, imho ,,, one thing i have noticed is theres a ton of quads in utah , didnt i see somewhere that utah has the highest per capita quad ownership rate in the country ? i know when we go hunting in southeastern zone around fairview and up on skyline they are everywhere ,,,, seems to be a lot less when we hunt southern zone down around boulder mt ,,,, sure wish it was next season already ,,,, :)
 
>Manny15, don't tell me to chill
>out. You want an honest
>opinion, well here it is.
>You knew when you started
>this thread what the result
>would be, so as far
>as I'm concerned, you can
>go take a flying F#@%ing
>leap!


GROW FLIPPIN UP DUDE.....!!!!...AND KEEP YOUR DIRTY COMMENTS TO YOUR SELF>>>...DON"T ASSUME YOU KNOW WHY I POSTED THIS TOPIC....
 
Pauly

TAKE A REAL CLOSE LOOK AT POST # 90!!!

DO YOU GET THE PICTURE???

YOU GONNA CALL THE DA & TELL HIM I THREATENED YOU WITH POST # 90???

FOUNDERS BACK,YOU'D BETTER HURRY & REPORT ME!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING YOU'D BETTER COWBOY-UP OR SHUT UP!!!
 
Oh my hell! This is hilarious.

Let me see if I got this right. Al-Quaida (or however the hell you spell it) is plotting to destroy major US cities, by using planes as missles, dirty bombs, chemical weapons, and so forth. Now the FBI is anxiously awaiting the next reply on MM. Could it be, at any moment, the FBI is going to spring into action to take some guy down for promising to break someone's vroom-vroom? Ha! Just how damn dumb is that? Hey, I just decided to call an old buddy who is a US Marshal to fix some guy on MM who admits riding his AQTV on the bushes. Fer hell's sake. Do better than that.

It just cracks me up how passionate people can be about their wheeler. I say provide areas for those who want to ride them and ban the bastards so others do not have to look at them. Go out to Vernon and that place looks like a connect the dots puzzle. Some guy I talked to out there was telling me the Utah Trail Riders Group or some damn thing was going to push roads to connect them all so they did not have to ride up one canyon only to have to turn around and ride down to go up the next one. Sounds responsible to me.
 
ktc

ON ONE OF THE OTHER THREADS YOU ASKED ME HOW I LIKED YOUR ATV!!!

I LIKE IT ALOT!!!

A HORSE IS WAY BETTER THAN A LOWLIFE DESTROYING PUBLIC GROUND ON A WHEELER!!!

YA,I GOT TURNED IN TO THE DENVER DA & FBI TODAY!!!

Pauly DON'T LIKE WHAT I'VE SAID,PROMISED TO LEAVE HIS LAST POST SEVERAL POSTS AGO,I GUESS HIS WORD IS GOOD???

THE ONLY bobcat THATS BEEN CALLED A RACIST,A STUPID IDIOT,A NUT CASE & NOW A TERRORIST!!!
 
Dakotakid IS GOING TO BE MAD!!!

IN AN ABOVE POST THEY MENTIONED 'GEORGE BUSH MENTALITY'!!!

YA,I KNOW WE BOTH VOTED FOR HIM!!!

THE ONLY bobcat HOPEING Dakota HAS A 12 PACK HANDY TO KEEP HIM COOL???
 

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