Colorado Trespassing

T

tooele

Active Member
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What do you guys think of this. My friend a colorado resident apparently crossed through what they claim was unposted private property dragging a deer back to the truck. The game warden busted them. They went to court on trespassing, the game warden would not budge and it cost them 20 points on their license. SO now due to the point system they cannot hunt for a year in any of the states that have a pact. Just or Unjust??

T
 
Well,
I hate to be a harda$$ but I'd say one should know where he/she is relative to pvt/public boundaries. I'd say its just.
-Raptor
 
Did they represent them selves or hire a lawyer. It's usually worth it to hire one, if you show up without one your almost always screwed no matter what. Its a raw deal, but they did trespass.
 
It is up to you as the hunter to know where you are and what is private and public ground. Landowners do not have to post no tresspassing signs to let people know they are on private ground.
Your friends were in the wrong.

If I am hunting an area where I know there is private ground next to public I will talk to the landowner and dig out my map and ask them on the map just where their ground is so there is no confusion. Believe me the landowners like it when I do this so they don't have to watch you. It never hurts to double check.
 
it's also up to the landowner to post his property. a no hunting sign on the gate don't cut it either. don't recall what the exact rules are, but to legally post land, it's pretty expensive. have to have a sign of a certain sign and verbage every so many feet, etc. if it isn't posted properly, it's pretty hard to charge anyone. like they said, get a lawyer.
 
I personally think that there should be a lot lesser charge when the land is unposted or unmarked. And to be completely honest, I think that the law should change so that landowners would have to post their land.
 
Here in Idaho the law states that if it is cultivated land (including CRP) it does not need to be posted. It is assumed to be posted.

However, open range or non-cultivated pastures must be clearly marked at all points of entry and, I believe, with at least 600 square inches of orange every 600 feet or something like that. If it isn't posted, the landowner can still tell you to get out but can't press charges.

Don't know the CO rules (but I would certainly find out before I ever hunted there)but in my opinion if the land is not cultivated and looks just like the surrounding forest or BLM than I think the landowner should have to post before being able to press charges that cost someone their license.
 
The laws in Colorado don't require the landowner to do anything. It is completely up to the hunter to know where the property lines are.
 
Sorry guys, you gotta know where you are at. I don't know for sure what the rules are, but they were found guilty.....There is tons on non cultivated private land in Colorado that looks like the surroundings. Forest and blm maps are much cheaper than a lawyer. I have never hunted private land by just stumbling onto it, yet. Where I hunt is often on the fence line of public/private and have had to show maps to others to proove the point, mostly to outfitters, when you show them the maps they back right off. This year I hunted an area of BLM that someone posted as private( I think an outfitter), the second day of the season the warden was asking me who put up the signs. I expalined that I was hunting BLM land and had nothing to do with posting the signs. I also broke out with my maps and showed him I had knowledge of the area, he took down the signs and laughed it off. The funny thing was that nobody else hunted that area the whole season. Had anyone around there had the maps I would have not been alone for 5 days. Still did'nt kill a MONSTER.

What I have done in the past is take the usgs quad 7.5 min maps and transfer the information, boundrys ect. from the blm maps to the topo maps then you have a topo map to hunt with. It sure helps me out. There is a National Forest Sign in Colorado, a fence, a cattle guard, and a gravel road begins all at the same spot, everone assumes that is the forest line. The actual forest marker is one mile below the sign. Killed a bear in that spot last year.

JJ
 
No they did not go with a lawyer, unfortunately they are simple guys and don't have the extra money laying around. I guess they just expected the DWR and Judges to give them a fair shake for an honest mistake. I'm very surpirised that they gave them an automatic 20 points on their licenses, no previous infractions recorded and the ambiguity of the citation. Missing a whole year of hunting would really suck, especially when trespassing wasn't even intended. That seems pretty harsh and I think Colorado should probably take a look at this policy.

T
 
Oh I forgot to mention that only 2 of the 4 were even carrying rifles. They all received the exact same punishment.

T
 
Looks like the judge sided with the property owners. Trespassing must be a real problem in Colorado and with so many hunters (non-res included) I can see how certain counties can be fed up. Maybe they are trying to send a message.

I agree. It should be mandatory to post signs.

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
 
Its very specific in the hunting regs about trespassing on private property. Its absolutely the hunters responsibility to know where he/she is at. The punishment is stiff but in turn, most who trespass know damn well where they are at. I think the punishments will remain stiff to deter those who don't respect the property of others. I have heard what a huge problem trespassing is in Utah and if they hammered people harder on it, maybe they wouldn't have such a problem.

It also amazes me how many people don't abide by Colorado's flourescent orange requirements. Its very specific and you constantly see guys in vidoes, TV programs and magazines without it on. I recently saw an episode of Christenson Arms TV show on a mule deer hunt in Gunnison Basin and the host of the show is shown stalking and shooting a buck with just an orange sweatshirt (not flourescent orange) and a black baseball cap. Come on man.
 
This is why so much private land is off limits. Hunters who don't take the time to know or who just plane don't care
 
Its right there in black and white in the regs and the punishment is also convieniantly spelled out right next to it. They take the infraction of tresspassing so seriously that the punishment is more harsh than an unlawful take of a deer. As far as the land being posted, it only makes a convienant excuse for dumbasses who take down signs or post public land as private. I much prefer the "you had better know where you're at" rule as it puts the responsibility on the hunter to be informed, responsible and know where in the hell he or she is at and what they are doing. It should be the same for OHV use also. Just because you see the 2-track of some moron who went there before you doesn't mean its a trail and that you should ride on it too.
 
Before I come to a judgement, I would like to know how far on private ground they were. Was it 10 feet or 200 yards? Also did they have to cross a fence to go from public to private?

If it was very close without fences, it would probably be a different story than crossing a fence and well on private ground.

Best of luck to them. Nino.
 
Since the Game warden cannot bring charges agaisnt trespassers I find it a little hard to believe the owners were so stiff about it, if the buck was not shot on their property no biggie. Sounds like a small landowner who feels to big for his britches and was pissed because someone was on his 100 acre.

Another end of it though....

did they have to go through the property to get to where they killed the buck? If so then they deserved what they got. Trespassing with a firearm in ORegon is a Trespass 1, I forgot the jist of it but its alot worse than what those guys got.

If I were the landowner I would just make him proove they didnt shoot it on my property then make him proove he didnt use my land to get to where he shot it. If he checks out then a warning would be all I would give him. I am usually a hard Butt about our ranch because we prosecute whenever possbile, but there is also the other end of it called Public Relations.
 
I talked them again, and the private land is a strip along the road. They shot the animal on public land and unbenownst crossed the unposted pp. There is a fence. They lost their hunting rights 2 days after the third season, so they hunted the same area this year and shot 2 bull elk in the same place, this time they just drug them a few hundred yards around the property and there was no problem. Even though the law appears to be clear, unfortunately I'm on there side on this one, they got screwed.

T
 
I hate to hear stories like this but unfortunately in Colorado, private land DOES NOT have to be posted. It is the hunters responsibility to know what is public/private.
Ignorance is not bliss.
dutch
" Man who excels at putting worm on hook is Master Baiter"
 
There is no excuse for tresspassing, plain and simple. Get a GPS people.
I went through an ordeal in Colorado about 15 years ago with a warden. I showed him right on the map that it was BLM. He said nice buck and went on his way.
It's the hunters responsibility no matter what State you are in.
However, I do feel that wardens in Colorado do try to get at hunters who aren't sure where the bounderies are. IMHO
 
I had some freinds that got fined for tresspass while hunting cows in Moffat county. They had no idea they crossed a strip of un marked private land to get onto public ground. While on public ground they glassed about 60 head bedded not far off. However they were uncertian about the status of the land and decided to go back to camp to get more info. On their way out they were stopped by guides that were leasing the land and harrased and threatened with every profanity in the book. Finally the game warden showed up and listened to the story. He sided with my budies and tried to negotiate with MR Smith but got nowhere. The result!..$137.00 and 20 points each!! My friends are Honest Ethical and responsible hunters who commited no crime aginst the state of colorado or the game in colorado. They never even fired a shot. Yes they are guilty of one honest mistake (not knowing where they were) Terible crime! There is NO WAY they deserve to loose the thing they love most, Their RIGHT TO HUNT! I wonder why they payed the state of CO instead ot the land owner? The whole thing makes me sick.
 
The law is specific: the landowner is not obligated to post his property.

It's a terrible law, and should be changed, but it won't be. The Colorado trespass laws are written to favor the landowner, as are the access laws to public land. We have countless blocks of public land completely encircled by private property with no way for the public to get in. Guess what....it still gets hunted by either those paying to access their own land or by those paying an outfitter that is paying the landowner.

I realize private property rights are important, but many of those same landowners are grazing their cattle on the very public land that they block and charge for entry to. IMHO, if they graze it, they should be obligated to provide an easement for the public, or lose the grazing lease. Obviously this would take federal action, and that's not going to happen until the public uproar reaches a level that gets the attention of the legislators. So far that's not happening.
 
Sometimes it's not so simple. I can point to one place in Unit 66 where there's a county road with private on one side and a steep hill on the other that's public; the catch? there's a strip of about 50 feet that's private along that side of the road. A GPS isn't going to do any good if the resolution on the BLM or county map is not sharp enough to show the difference. Fortunately, the landowner (we went and found him for clarification after finding a note on the windshield) agreed that he thought it looked public on the map, too. Since the slope was about 50 degrees and went up 800 feet, we didn't want to go back anyway. He laughed and agreed.

In some ways this is to advantage, since you can find places that touch public land that are equally hidden. The problem is being sure.
 
Here in Utah depending on the city or state the fine could cost you from $50.00 in Lehi, or if a game warden cited you under state law it could cost you up to $250.00. You have to post private ground in Utah. It sounds like some heavy hitters have gotten some laws passed in Colorado that may be a little one-sided. Even the best with all there gps gadgets and maps may end up in the wrong spot at some time. It would take very little effert on the part of land-owners to post private land. I patrol about 3000 acres of private land that is winter ground for deer and a few elk. We have studied state law on posting and posted accordingly we still get peaple who sneek in and they do deserve a fine. BasinBoy
 
>He sided with my
>budies and tried to negotiate
>with MR Smith but got
>nowhere.

Brad Smith does not negotiate tresspassing charges. Locals know that well, but every once in a while someone unfamiliar gets hooked.

I think it's ridiculous that some would suggest (after admitting wrongdoing) that those charged with tresspassing got screwed. Read the friggin' regulations and know where you're at. Just another example of how lazy hunters are getting these days.
 
>>>the private land is a strip along the road.
county road ? public road ? on either side of a public road is a county state or fed easement ....
 
I have found that the best thing you can do is go talk to landowners and find out where the property lines are. Plus you can get some good info also. I just went through this last month in unit 23 in NM. We were hunting outside of Alma and got to talking to one of the landowners in the area. He ended up pointing us in a good direction and we also knew exactly where we could hunt and not. As long as you make the first move by approaching them I doubt they are going cause you any problems.

As far as GPS units go, I like them for finding my truck after dark and knowing where camp is but unless you are some kind of Lewis and Clark I am not going to rely on them too much for knowing exactly where I am on some map that is 1 mile for every inch.
 
It's a county road, and yes there is an easement I'm sure, but it only goes a few feet...THEN there's a strip of private....unmarked, not showing on the BLM map.
 
Where I hunt in Colorado this is what I put up with, A large tract of land that is public on 2 sides and private on one side, but,Forest service refuses to mark their boundries in any way plus the one FS sign was planted facing the wrong direction ( this was brought to my attention by a game cop ). The forest service map of the area shows that forest service property goes all the way to each road, FS says their maps are NOT to be used except as general guidelines,public area posted by locals, game cop says "yeah, I'm aware of it " . County planning says if I want to hire a local realtor they will let them try to look up the property bounderies but offered no help at all even for a fee. ranchers only have grazing rights but fence and cross fence and threaten you if you are within the fenceline. To the local gamecops credit he took it upon himself to post the private area to cut down on problems, but now theres talk about closing down the area to the public, won't that just delight both ranchers and Forest Service. FYI, the only reason I still hunt there is because I have killed 5 bulls and a few deer there and I have every right to be there ! Same thing happened up near Steamboat Springs when I reported to FS that someone had posted FS property she said "why don't you just use the trail's that everyone else use's , NEXT "
 
Sounds like colorado has an issue to deal with, unfortunately it appears that those with the money and power would prefer to keep this poor treatment of the little guy alive and well. From what I understand in response to all the you have to know where you are responses, if you hunt very much you know that sometimes this is much more easily said than done. No I'm not encouraging blatant trespassing, but come on Colorado.

T
 
well said tooele , i've had wardens who have no clue if i was or wasnt trespassing , as well as many forest sv people who have no idea where boundries are ,,,, black and white is'nt always as black and white as its made out to be ,,,
 
I have a 1978 Uncompahgre National Forest map and was using it last month in SW Colo. Well roads were not there like back then, so went to local FS office to buy an updated one.
Well it was still the same exact map but with 1999 date on it.
The little gal who does the surveying I guess even said that the maps are not updated and have been complaining for a long time.
I showed here where we had been and she knew right where we had been and said, "Yes, that part of that road has since been became private".
She said even the BLM maps are not currant so I told her thats how people get in trouble with these "private land owners" who won't post signs or paint their fence posts either RED OR PINK.

She agreed but said it was out of her hands.

Brian
 
last dove season we went to some of my dads property and when we got there , my dad brother and myself , we saw a couple of guys already there hunting ,,,, it seemed like they werent bothering anything , no trash , drinking , destroying stuff ect ect , so dad says aw just let em hunt , and we moved further down , well after we were there a few minutes one guy comes down an says ,,, hey the guy that owns this doesnt let anyone hunt it except us and you better leave or he'll call the sherrif ,,,,well dad let him finish his story and then pointed out to him that he owned the property and that he had not given them permission ,,, all you saw was dust as they hightailed it out of there,,, funny thing was we didnt mind them hunting till they pulled that crap ,,,i wonder how many times we get ran off "private prop" by people who dont own it ? :)
 
Not sure what the law is in CO reguarding trespassing, however in Utah if the land is uncultivated the land owner must have a sign or paint every 50 ft. I agree with this law 100%. The LO must take some kind of responsibility. However, the hunter must also make an honest effort to know where he is at.
 
This year in our area, an Outfitter tried to run us off by claiming he owned the BLM land we were looking at.

I contacted the BLM office and they sent me a map with this very land highlighted stating it was it was BLM.

So then I contacted the DOW, the County Sherriff and the County Road and Bridge Dept., but they did nothing to the Outfitter. But if I would have set one foot on the wrong side of the boundry, the DOW would have been all over me.

Its a Fairness issue to me. If their gonna hammer the hunters, then they need to be just as harsh to the landowners that think the public land is theirs too. Make them lose the grazing rights for a year or more, or whatever the penalty
 
tooele, saw on another thread that someone called "the swede" bought up a bunch of land in around unit 44 ,,, is same unit your friends were in ? wondering if they just ran afoul of a huge landowner/outfitter bizz with enough pop to make sure authorities pay attention to his land holdings , sounds like more than one unit has been landlocked by this outfit,,, public land huh ,,, except you cant get to it ,,, maybe you guys should learn to parachute or something ,,,,,
 
You're "rumor" is WAY off base tylercreek2. Its 15,35 and 36 and its far from landlocked and the surrounding areas of public land are some of the most heavily hunted in Colorado.

Trespassing is pretty straightforward and thats why there isn't any latitude within the law. Its black and white and the law is clearly stated in the rules and regs which are printed by the ten of thousands and available everywhere in Colorado. The burden is put upon the hunter to know exactly where he or she is and its a level of responsibility that isn't very difficult to take upon one'self. I've managed to since 1988.

Sure there are lousy situtations with landlocked public land and outdated maps but, BUT, if one is hunting an area where there might be a conflict as far as trespassing is concerned, it might be a good idea to do some research.

We need some cyber cheese to go along with all the wine (whine) on this post.
 
ok let me run back and re read that post , rumor ? naw wasnt a rumor maybe a mistake in what i read but no rumor ,,, as far as whine ? i'll drink mine thanks ,,, opinions are just that , and by the way i've never got into any trouble myself and i go back a wee bit further than 1988 ,,,,
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-05 AT 03:14PM (MST)[p]hey there buckspy i just saw your rather sacastic post on the thread i had read , so i see you saw it also ,,, was'nt the post called unit 44 bought up ? all well i'll just have to be way off base and rumor spreading , least i can still sorta read , you almost started to make me feel bad ,,,, :)
 
HUH? :eek: I read that 4 times and I'm still not sure what you are saying.

The "whining" wasn't you, pal. Don't take it personnal. My sarcasm in the other post had to do with the rumor of someone buying up all the access to a unit that has tens of thousands of acres of public land with forest service roads and trailheads all over the place. Lots of people read the silly stuff put up here daily and sometimes its too much to let it go. It's lunacy, I tell you.
 
okie dokie , sorry bout that :) ah haaaa you mean theres more than ONE way to get in somewhere ? lol Merry Christmas :) sorry bout being "pissy" :)
 

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