Can bugle determine size?

B

BloodBought

Guest
My question comes from my experience this last weekend. I was scouting, and as in many of our experiences I was surrounded by bugles not sure which one to go after...I began to chase the one which sounded like the "most dominant" (bugling, grunting, and chuckling) only to later find out he was a rag horn chasing around a few cows, so...

How much can the sound of a bugle be relied on to judge the size of a bull???

prefer experience over opinion...
 
after huntin this archery season with my buddy in meadowville we chased a bull we called growler. when he bugled her growled it turned out once we seen him was about a 370 bull the biggest we've seen in the area we were hunting.

we also went after a different bull and it almost sounded sick or gut shot but it was a rag horn 4 point.

my experience is the deeper the bigger
 
As a "rule of thumb yes",but NEVER bank on it.
Towards the end of the rut a lot of bulls get "squeally or horse" and their voices can change.






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there is no rule of thumb when it comes to elk bugles - sshrill squealers can be monsters and rough growlers can be rag horns - don't for get all the yo-yo's out there tootin thier horns trying to sound like elk-

the only thing I can say is ID the bull- you can usually know which bull is which by the way he bugles ( for a limited amount of time during the rut ) - the worset soundn bugle coming thru the woods turned out to be a huge 350 class 6x6 - we were sure it was some yo-yo - MM
 
i have seen some really big bulls that had a nice high pitched bugle and i have seen some really big bulls that had the low growly type so i would personally say no , but if i was chasing them and had a handful bugling around me i would probably go after the growly types first.....cbryant
 
I've had more experiences with deep mean sounding bulls being small rather than big. I've also had the worst sounding, highest pitched bugles be very big bulls. There really is no way to tell without seeing the bull yourself.
 
No way can ya determine a bulls size, or dominance by his bugle. My dad drew the wasatch in 2002, and on opening day we heard a bugle from the road that sounded like one of the worst bugling immitations that I had ever heard. It had no growl at the front or end of the bugle, and sounded very tinny. During the evening hunt we positioned my dad at the bottom of the draw with on of his guides. while I walked up the ridge. to where this weak call was comming from. Me thinking that it was just another hunters half a$% attempt to bugle, I kept creeping closer. I came around a tree only to come face to face with a large bull that had about fourteen cows. I was directly down wind from him and his stench almost made me hurl, But I quickly forgot about that when I started counting his points.
At first he looked like a large 340 class bull, then I noticed that he had matching sword tines on both sides. A 7x7 I thought. He the turned towards me and I noticed an extra brow point on his left side, as well as a split G-5 point. well all in all he was an 8x9 huge. I tried for a weeki to get my dad a good shot at him but never could quite close that deal. He did end up killin a very nie 6x6 late in the hunt. and to my knowledge no one ever killed that bull. I will never again judge a bull by the way that he sounds
Lambo
 
Some of the biggest bulls I've ever seen had wimpy, tinny bugles, and a few raghorns I've seen 'had to be 400" bulls' right up until they came into view!

The sound of the call can generally give you an idea, but it is far from a reliable indicator.
 
One thing I have learned over the years is that a "BIG" sounding bugle usually indicates a more mature bull but in no way can you judge size by it. If I hear a big sounding bugle it's worth a look and I look for 2 things. How often he's bugling (dominance) and how many cows he's got (if you can't see him). Then again, that doesn't always pan out either. I have been duped several times by bugle. I used to love chasing bugles. I'm a little more cautious now. I usually want to see him before I try and go after him.

It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
I say NO! I saw a bull just last night. He had a very high pitched bugle, no deep voice, no growl, just a whimpy whistle. I came over the ridge expecting to see a raghorn, and there stood a huge 360-370 class bull.
 
I have to follow up on my initial question. It happened again this past weekend as I watched a decent 5x5 bugle from a about 500 yards. I was anxious to see the bull bugling just up the mountain from me that sounded like he was more dominant and ready to fight (deep grunting, horse-sounding bugle). When I finally got within 400 hundred yards of this bull, he turned out to be a dink 4x4. A caveat to this scouting trip is that I came across one of those dominant sounding bulls on Sunday, and it turned out to be a dominant bull (6x6 340-360)!

I don't believe you can judge a bull by its bugle, but the bugles are distinct in that day to day the bugles sound pretty much the same coming from any particular bull.
 
The biggest bulls I've come across seem to hold back from all out bugling. I don't know if it's hunting pressure, being half tired from hard rutting and fending off lesser bulls, or what?

I have noticed that they "slosh" a lot though...you know that rythmal guttural sound you can hear from about 100 yards out or so.

I've found the sattelite bulls surrounding a big herd bull's harem to be a lot more vocal when it comes to bugling than the herd bull himself.
 
I say 100% yes if you know the area. If you are in NM leftturn is right on. The big ones rarely bugle. So, if you hear a bunch of squealy raggys you can be almost assured they are surrounding a large monster bull that aint sayin a word. As for the other bulls. Yes, yes, and yes. If you hear enough of them you will start to decypher that deeper throat sound at the very beginning of a bugle. We never saw a bull in Utah where they weren't distinguishable. You can definitely tell their age. Yes some large bulls sound very squealish but the very first split second of their bugle tells me a lot about their age. However, if bulls are bugling everywhere then the younger bulls will be horse and sound huge. All bets are out the window when the bulls have been bugling hard for more than a week. Just my two.


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silly liberals, paychecks are for workers!
 
NO! However I still chase deep raspy growling bugles with more feeling of them being a mature bull. More often than not its a dink. I will agree with stinky on one thing. Old old bulls dont spend alot of time making noise. They end up shot.
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"I needed a cheesy signature saying like everyone else"
 
Early in the season they all sound pretty high pitched. Later on it seems they get more hoarse and raspy.. My bull was pretty high pitched when I stuck him (8-27).
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-03-10 AT 09:24PM (MST)[p]After chasing big bulls for the last twenty years in North Idaho's jungles I can say in the areas that I have hunted the mature bull's bugles will be more times than not, very "raspy" at the beginning, with a very high pitched scream at the end. Their grunts are a little more deliberate and confident, where as younger "rag horn" bull's will have a faster tempo to their chucks, with an excited yet wimpy tone. The true giants will have the wheeze of a 90 year old man, and some times no high pitched scream at all. I have had a mature bull bugle differently from the first contact through the end of the encounter. They will escalate their bugle as their emotions rise. But over all I haven't been disappointed with my "ear" for bugles. A 10 year old bulls larynx will be worn, if not damaged from bugling a few thousand times each September. His voice may start out fairly high pitched with the lower notes being raspy, but by the end of the rut his voice will be much more hoarse.

www.elk101.com

"Winners make commitment, Losers make excuses.
 
The guy who will walk away from a squeaky pissant sounding bugle is an inexpereinced elk hunter.
 
Here is my two cents from hunting... mostly calling, only got one tag in 10 years, bulls in AZ, I have also been lucky enough to hunt in Utah and Colorado.

Big bulls sound all different kinds of ways, from high pitched tinny bugles to almost just grunts and growls, I do find that they sound meaner or angrier, when they are more dominant, but this isn't always 100% true just like humans I think they have different personalities, and some bulls just think they are bad asses. But I always seem to chase or want to chase the angrier bulls first as many times they are dominant, but not always the biggest racks just big mature big body bulls...most of the time.

What I mean by angry is that almost more pissed off sound like, like come on I will kick your ass, or I will breed you right now!! It is almost the most "confident" sounding bugle for lack of a better word, but they can be high or low, just like humans have different sounding voices, but you can tell when someone thinks they are the biggest and baddest. I also like to think of it as almost swearing in elk language, they know that if they talk like that there may be a fight but they don't care.

This is more right before they start gathering cows in Harems. It seems like after the big bulls get a harem they are'nt as pissed anymore and sound all kinds of ways.

I have been fooled more than a couple of times with my "theories" though

Tom C.
 
I also agree with the sloshing sound...we call it glunking... that big bulls seem to make. It is almost like a "tending" noise that big bulls make when they are chasing around cows.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-10 AT 08:05PM (MST)[p]longshooter338,

LOOK PAL, WE ARE ALL HERE TO SHARE OUR EXPERIANCES WITHOUT A BUNCH OF NEGATIVITY! If you don't agree with me that's fine, everyone has had many different scenarios play out. That's why we are sharing, not tooting our horns. But it seems from both your comments to this post, you have an attitude problem....

"Winners make commitment, Losers make excuses.
 
http://www.elknut.com
Vortex Optics Dealer

The thread starter asked if a bulls size-- (not score) --mature bull or not can be distinguished by his sound, absolutely! There is no question about telling bulls apart at to whether they have dominant features, we do it here & there everyear.

So many times guys hear what sounds like big bulls & maybe even get into a screaming match with one in real life or see encounters on TV & then walks out this raghorn, immediately you think that, that bull doesn't match the sound heard previously but are quick to say that there's a perfect example where you cannot tell a bulls size by its sound! Hogwash, in most cases it is not the same bull they heard it's another bull that came in out of curiosity! Of course none of us are perfect but with enough experience with real life encounters you start to get a respectable handle on a quality bull by its sounds!

ElkNut1
 

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