Enough Compalining, Lets See Solutions!

H

huntsonora

Guest
I have seen lots of bitching and moaning about Gov. Tags and landowner vouchers but have not seen many people post a possible solution. Bitching is easy and we can all be pretty good at it. Let's see some solutions.

Contrary to popular belief I honestly agree with a lot of the folks on this board about Gov. Tags. I don't think that they are difficult hunts and don't like the fact that they can be hunted any time with any weapon until the end of Jan. I also don't like the fact that these tags go to auction for the highest bidder when I feel the MDF and other organizations could generate as much if not more money dong it other ways. The system is flawed. I will not bash on the people that purchase or win the tags though because what they are doing is perfectly legal. The problem lies with the people making the laws, not the guys donating hundreds of thousands of dollars that benefit mule deer.

One solution that would even the playing field would be to have the states ?tack on? an extra fee for the species the hunter is applying for and donate that fee, on behalf of the hunter, to the MDF or RMEF. The hunter would then be put into a draw automatically for the ?Governors Tag?. This way we would all have equal chance at the tag of a lifetime and the money would be put to use by the foundations for the benefit of that particular species. I would rather have the MDF and RMEF spend the money than the state. I would also like to see changes made to when and how you can hunt; I think that the best solution would be to allow the lucky tag holder to be able to hunt in any open unit in the state using the weapon appropriated for that particular hunt. You would still be able to hunt from late Aug to mid Dec. I think that's perfectly fair. This is the fairest solution that I can think of. It levels the playing field and nobody could ##### and moan about it being just a rich mans sport. I know some of you will complain about the extra $50 but look at the good it could do and $50 is less than a tank of gas in a lot of vehicles. If hunting is a priority I can't imagine somebody not being able to come up with the little extra cash.

As for landowner vouchers, I see both sides. I can understand why the landowners want to be compensated for crop loss and damage and I can understand why people that have saved points are pissed because a guy is hunting a hard to draw unit because he has the cash. I think that if a landowner gets permits and sells them then the hunts should either be contained to his property or he should open his property up to all hunters that have a tag. I know a lot of landowners would not want to do this and they would not get the tags. Again, it would just level the playing field for all hunters.

These are just some ideas I had, I hope to read more.

Drummond
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-05 AT 05:27PM (MST)[p]I don't have a problem with Governors tags as long as there aren't too many of them.

Vouchers: Vouchers in Colorado should only be good on the property of the landowner. Period.

BeanMan
 
I've got no problem with the tags. Raffle them or auction them, I don't care. THAT money does go to a good cause.

The problem as I see it is the massive group of bounty hunters and groupies that flock to the area rousting every buck, doe and fawn trying to smoke out the big guy for a "fee" or just "recognition". You keep deflecting the debate to defend your crew.

I'm with Beanman on the vouchers, land owner tags must be used on the landowners property.

JB

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
--Benjamin Franklin 1759
 
Drum,

I'm pretty confused now, I hadn't read the other Voucher topic until after I posted here. It seems to me that most of the posts were well written and pointed out the laws etc and offered choices.

Beanman
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-05 AT 05:45PM (MST)[p]Drum,
Good post, nice to see some of your thoughts on how things could be changed.

I do feel though that your comment about bitching being easy and not seeing solutions is a slap in the face to the people who posted dozens of their ideas for solutions in nearly 100 posts on the other two threads. Didn't you read all of them? There are some excellent ideas in there from some obviously very intelligent people who obviously care about whats best for the animals.

I wont add any other solutions because I dont feel I could state any that are any better than BUCKSPY's. Well said.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-05 AT 05:52PM (MST)[p]Nevada has a program like you were describing called Partnership in Wildlife (PIW). I think that you forfeit your tag refund and its voluntary, the winner can hunt any unit, any open season with the legal weapon. I really like your idea about landowners who draw/sell tags have to open their gates to all hunters. Realistically it will never happen. Maybe a better approach would be that landowners have to let the hunters that they sold the tags to hunt their property, and not be able to "landlock" public land. 15% is already too many, by trying for more and more, landowners are going to piss enough people off that they'll end up with less. If they were smart they'd keep quiet. I also think the criteria for a landowner to apply for tags needs to be revamped. As I understand it right now, anyone who owns just 160 acres can apply, regardless if game uses their property or not.
 
The landowner voucher thread has some great ideas and really good conversation on it.



Drum
 
I would like to share an idea that is being considered in Washington that I think could be applied to other species in other states. Personally, I am not opposed to one auction and one raffle tag per species. What scares me are the state agencies that think, "well if we can get $15,000 out of one elk tag we should be able to get $30,000 for two..." And before you know it, us regular Joes are priced out of the game.

In addressing poor draw odds for Once-In-a-Lifetime species in Washington (moose, goat, sheep), the Washington FNAWS Chapter put forth this plan:

"With a limited resource such as the OIL tags there are only two ways to increase draw odds: increase the number of permits or decrease the number of applicants. Given the limited number of these species, increasing permit levels is a slow, slow process so the only way to increase draw odds is to decrease applicants. The challenge then becomes to find a process that does not discriminate against us "regular" working folks by pricing us out of the game.

It is very similar to the Nevada's PIW program in that it establishes a species specific endowment. Unlike Nevada, it is not an additional tag similar to an auction permit. All those applicants who are applying for bighorn, goat, & moose permits would be charged an additional $15 per species (so $45 if you apply for all 3). The $15 would be put in an endowment fund that allows WDFW to only spend the interest to use to fund projects for that species. Conservation groups such as WAFNAWS, etc will make sure WDFW is held accountable for how the funds are spent. Draw odds would only increase if some hunters are not willing to pay the increase. Hopefully, $15 will not price out those who are really interested in OIL species. The good news is all who do apply are supporting the future of that species--not just those that draw and buy the tag.

I have compiled some data to show potential fund growth over 1, 5, 10 and 20 years. If anyone is interested get me your email and I can send it out.

Let me give you some figures that show where the funds would be today if the endowment plan was started nine years ago in 1997:

Moose
--total apps over last 9 years = 77652
--current fund total would be $1,164,780
--5% annual return in 2005 = $58,239 available this year for moose projects

Goat --total apps over last 9 years = 40666
--current fund total would be $609,990
--5% annual return in 2005 = $30,499 available this year for goat projects

Bighorn Sheep --total apps over last 9 years = 51798
--current fund total would be $776,970
--5% annual return in 2005 = $38,848 available this year for sheep projects

With all of us paying a little more, I think we can show WDFW we are committed to the future of these OIL species. I know most hate the trend of more and more auction/raffle tags so WDFW can raise money. By comparison, using the above figures the annual return on moose would generate almost 5 times what the last auction tag brought; almost 5 times what the last auction goat tag brought; and not quite the same as what one additional Cali bighorn tag would bring."

Yours in Conservation,

Glen A. Landrus
WAFNAWS
 
Amen Sonora, MM is such a good resource for hunters to get involved with shaping the future of hunting in their States. We all need to take advantage of that. When a problem is identified, let's address it, not be complacent and forget about it after venting a couple minutes. Nothing will ever change that way. Complacency is the death of hunting.
 
How about this. Do away with fundraising tags period. Let the business people making a profit off of the state wildlife contribute back to thier product, be it muledeer, elk, ducks turtles or whatever. When a commercial outfitter, guide ,broker or whoever removes an animal from the states inventory, require a fee to compensate the state for habitat and or what ever is needed to maintain that inventory. There is some big money being made off of state wildlife. Every business has to pay for its inventory . Why not the public land guiding/ outfitting industry. Say about 10% of the gross when an animal is taken. It would add up to alot more than the fundraising tags generate with alot less bad publicity.
 
Limited Governor's tags are fine, as long as the money is spend on the species it was issued for and not put into other programs.

Landowner tags in Colorado, Only transfered once from the landowner and require hunting on their property even if they are good unit wide. If your solution involves getting rid of them you are foolish to believe that the ranchers/cattleman associations are not strong in the political arena of your state.

Hunt Sonora, keep up the positive talk, hunters should be allies against greenies, not against each other
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-05
>AT 05:27?PM (MST)

>
>I don't have a problem with
>Governors tags as long as
>there aren't too many of
>them.
>
>Vouchers: Vouchers in Colorado should
>only be good on the
>property of the landowner.
>Period.
>
>BeanMan

My thoughts exactly.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Lost in Oregon hit the nail on the head. Politics rule. Nearly every state compensates the private land owner in one fashion or another for their contribution to wildlife. That compensation buys cooperation and in some cases creates a few hunting opportunitys for the masses. Wealth buys political influence in our country and political influence generates dividends (MONEY). It is everywhere - the oil industry, farm programs, etc etc. Anyone who believes they are going to take landowner tags away from a very influential group is naive.You can whine all you want BUT untill you reach in your pocket and play politcs, you may as well talk to a tree - you aren't going to be heard.
Personally, I think landowner tags are a very cost efficient way to compensate a group that does bear much of the responsibility for feeding and providing habitat for the wildlife. If CO used the same process as Kansas and made the vouchers only transferrable once it would generate just as much for the landowner and create a better price for the hunter.
 
I'd like to see Governor's tags be treated as reguar draw tags in that if you buy one, you are done in that state (for once in a lifetime game). No more draws, no raffles, no more governors tags.

As for vouchers, make them available to landowner or immediate family. Or, make them transferrable once. At the very least, make them specific to landowner's property.
 
While I would agree that landowners who receive tags should ALLOW hunting (at least for the people w/landowner tags) on their property I totally disagree with the tag being good ONLY on the property.

What if I have a large ranch that is mostly winter range? There are hundreds of deer and elk using the place from January thru April with very little use during the fall hunting seasons. What good would the tag be if it was good only for the ranch?

I don't really have a problem with raffle or auction tags, as long as there is a 1:1 ratio, i.e you auction 1 tag then you must raffle an identical tag so basically anyone w/ $5 can have a shot.

I think that the raffle or auction winners should have a waiting period so they can't buy the tags every year.
 
I would like to see fewer landowner vouchers but I agree you can't limit them to that landowners land. Especially the winter range ranches deserve some compensation. I do like the idea of 1 transfer to keep the brokers from uping the price of vouchers. Two governors tags per species with one going to raffle is ok with me. Some states have governors tag seasons that are to long but I don't like limiting how many tags one guy can buy because the whole idea is to maximize the dollars. We don't want high rollers eliminated from the auction. I also like the idea of adding additional fees to tag purchases for a chance at a governors type tag. I don't know if it would work to require that money going to MDF or REMF though. Thanks for starting this thread Drum.
 
I agree with you guys entirely that you cant get rid of landowner vouchers, and never once have I suggested that.

I encourage you to read my first post on the landowner debate thread. The soloution that I have proposed has been derived from many meetings with folks from all sides of this issue, and seems to be fairly well recieved by all parties envolved with the exception of the voucher brokers, but I've given up on pleasing them.

Good posts.
Peashooter
 

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