Rifle Hunt During Rut Survey

Inmysights

New Member
Messages
4
This is a quick little survey.
I want to take a little census on whether people are in favor of Rifle hunting during the rut or not for Elk.

Thanks,

Inmysights

Just post a quick Yes or No.
 
No. I think that it is already too easy to get one with a rifle compared to the primitive weapons. So give the guys who actually have to get elk close the chance to hunt the rut. Archers like myself would love that.

Is the Muzzle Loader any different than a rifle, really? I mean I have shot deer past 200 yards several times with mine. I have never shot a deer that far with a rifle.

Dillon

Effective Range: How far I am accurate

Rifle- 400+ yards
Muzz- 200
Archery- 70
 
I have to say NO, but what if we all switch off every year I mean one year the archers get the rut then the muzzys and then the rifles, sounds fair to me. Only problem is you would have to start the first LE hunt right when they start to rut.
 
No, move the most successful weapon out of the rut. Equals more opportunity for the rest of us non-rifle hunters.
 
Rotate so that each weapon type gets the rut every third. If it stays as is then my answer is no for rifle. Central Region RAC member.
 
NO - the only surefire way to get more hunters through the bonus point logjam is to get the rifle hunt out of the rut to reduce harvest #'s somewhat and to allow for more tags to be given.

Get the most successful weapon out of the easiest date range to hunt elk!!! Move it to October at the earliest, which by the way will still provide a pretty great experience with some bugling and rutting activity still going on.
 
No hunting period in the heart of the rut. Dumb; skews the number of largest bulls killed too far to the right and messes up the bell curve.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-01-09 AT 01:56PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-01-09 AT 01:53?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Oct-01-09 AT 01:51?PM (MST)

Lowcountryelk you make me laugh. I just came out of my wildlife genetics class here at Utah State where I am studying wildlife science. I got 87.5 on my test (a really hard one). But I did get the bell (lets call it the bull curve) curve down. Talk about variance and distribution. The rifle in the rut is an example of a disruptive bull curve.

..................X.............................................
..................X........................../..
..................X..........................X................ X.................X..........................X................ ------------------------------------------------
Archery.........Rifle...................... Muzz
(Pre-Rut).......(RUT).................(rut/ post rut)


Why do the people who can shoot 400+ yards need a bull at 10 yards?



The X's represent success rate on the hunt.

Dillon
 
Some folks must forget that the DWR wants success #'s on these units. The reason they put a spike hunt in place is to lower the bull/cow ratio. So lowering the number of elk to be harvested will not work with their plan. More opportunity for muzzy/bow hunters and less rifle tags is one way, but the harvest can't be lowered or heck their next idea will be to open the unit for open bull....I know we don't want that to happen....I live on one of them units now :)
 
Hell no.

Easiest way to give more opportunity to more hunters and keep numbers about the same? increase primitive weapon tags and move the seasons around. The guys that don't like it are the ones with double digit rifle points.
 
I say NO. sorry to not keep it short but i will share with you a proposal that is going to need some support by us archers,

New season dates as i have heard are going to be proposed soon.

New archery Season** September 1-21
New Muzz Season ** September 22-October 5
New Rifle 1st Season ** September 29-October 5
New Rifle 2nd Season ** October 21-28

Alot of guys will be worried how the Muzz and Rifle hunt over laps but thats the best way they could propose so that everyone hunts around prime rut dates.

I appologize if any of these dates arent exactly what will be proposed but i have spoken with a few members of the board and this is what i have heard.

2 Rifle seasons on all units could possibly uncrowd some limited entry units.

Utah is the only state that doesnt allow their archers to hunt peak rut dates. With the exception of a few Units here and there in which the sportsman pays the price for $$.

If you move the rifle hunt out of the rut maybe you will kill less bulls making it so we can release more tags bringing more opportunity to our sportsman.
 
NO!!! It's way too easy, make it a hunt and move it out of the rut. I like the proposed dates above!
 
Yes, but only in moderation.
Good example, Arizona.
This Questain must be about Utah.
having drawn my tag, go ahead and get the rifle hunt out of the rut. Why don't they put the Muzzleloader hunt before the rifle hunt? Just flop these 2 hunts around giving more tags to the smoke pole and fewer rifle tags.
Just a thought.
DBB's
 
NO,,,, The way the rut activity has changed the last 4 years if utah keeps the dates the same, none of the hunts will be in the rut except the muzzy and late hunts
 
Yes.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
It is ok in some states, but i think that it should be left to bow hunters. InNevada the rut hunt for elk with a bow has been taken away the archery elk hunt ends on the 14th of september right at the start of the rut. There are some rifle hunts that that are the last two weeks of september.
 
Absolutely, archery hunters get 3 weeks to hunt. Sit in a tree stand at a water hole/wallow. 3 weeks should be enough time lol...
 
I know you asked for a quick yes and no, and I already answered, but this is one question that deserves some discussion.

Let's break it down to simple math. Say you want to please the most number of hunters every year, and maintain the size and quality of the herd. How do you do that? Easy. You move the tougher hunts (lower success ratios)to the time of the year when the elk are the most vulnerable, and the easier hunts (rifle) to the times when the elk are tougher to hunt. Simplifying of course, but you get the idea. Twice as many people get to hunt, the same number of elk get killed, more people are happy, more revenue for the state, more people get tags. Seems like a win for everyone, except those who are about to draw elk rifle tags. I don't understand why Utah doesn't grasp this concept.

Putting the rifle hunt during the rut is a slaughter. Anyone who has a tag can kill a bull, period. It's just a matter of how big a bull you want. If you didn't kill one it's your own fault in most cases. Obviously there are exceptions but this has been the case in every hunt I've witnessed. It's just a matter of finding one that would look the best on the wall.
 
Hey woodruffhunter, when was the last time you met a guy that could take 3 weeks off of work to go sit water?
 
NO!!!! The Rifle hunt should start on the first saturday of october like the genral hunts do.

Alot of people say that its archery hunters greed that we want to move the hunt, but in my eyes its the right thing to do for elk, and the system.

I would even suport moveing the rifle hunt to Oct. and putting the muzzy hunt at the same time as the muzzy deer hunt and leaveing the archer hunt the way it is. This would leave a gap in the prime time of the rut and give the elk a break.



Jake H. MM Member since 1999.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-02-09 AT 07:03AM (MST)[p]I hate to change the subject, but this is on topic. Does anyone have information on how many B&C Bulls vs P&Y/Longhunter Bulls have come out of Utah in the last say 10 yrs? I would like to see how they add up realizing there are alot more rifle hunters than muzzy/bow hunters...also realizing not everyone puts theirs in the book
 
YES!!!!!!!!!!! Why don't you ask how many people that are saying NO have drawn a tag already???? Look at all the people that want it moved it is "Feather Lover or Bow Stroker".... why fix something that isn't broke????? Utah kills huge bulls year after year for a reason!!!!!!! Everyone that has drawn a tag for the last 10 years has had to wait....wait for the hunt of a lifetime!! Now you feather flippers want to take that away from everyone else???? You have how many weeks to sit by a tree and wait for a elk to walk by????? Draw a ANY WEAPON tag and hunt with ANY WEAPON!! Stop playing oh poor me and play the game!!!!
 
Tay "isnt broke????" Look at the odds if you were 16 years old and wanted to start hunting LE elk.
 
Hell no.... Archery hunt needs to be in september! Every other state has the archery hunt in september. What is wrong with Utah? Archery hunting elk in August sucks pretty bad.
 
Your right the odds aren't very good, but no one is forcing you to put in. Utah kills the biggest bulls year after year so how can it be so broken? If we give everyone that wants to hunt elk got a tag we might as well be hunting in CO. It's not a RIFLE hunt it is a ANY WEAPON hunt. So hunt with your bow, hunt with your muzzleloader, or hunt with your rifle. That is what makes it so hard to draw, hunt with ANY WEAPON in the middle of the rut.
 
Tay-

Have you tried hunting elk in August with a bow? Tell me...why do we have to give the best time to hunt to the hunters that have the longest range weapon? I guess the gun hunters need every advantage they can get? Every other state lets the archery hunters hunt them in the rut because the success rates are lower because it's a lot harder to kill an elk with a bow. Move the rifle hunt out of the rut and it won't take 25 years to draw a tag because they will be able to offer more tags. Primitive weapon hunts are the only hunts that should be in the rut because of the success rates. The system is definately broke with how long it will take you to draw a tag. No offense but you're probably piping up now beacuse you only a few more years before you draw a rifle tag. After you draw you might change your mind as you will probably never draw a tag again with the current "not broke" system.
 
>Tay-
>
>Have you tried hunting elk in
>August with a bow?

Lucaar-

I hunted elk with a friend this August, and what I found was the elk will bugle and come to a bugle if you get away from the roads. I hunted on Fishlake and the elk where just as easy to get on in August as they where last week when I was down hunting them again. You can use your bow on the ANY WEAPON hunt if you choose to. Sure it takes forever to draw, but look at the quality of the hunt you get instead of think you deserve to hunt 10 times in your life. You are right I am 1-2 years from drawing my ANY WEAPON tag, and I might just use my bow when I do!!! Maybe even try using a spear!!
 
The truth comes out!!!! Two years away from drawing your once in a lifetime any weapon elk tag! Sorry Tay....I hunted the Book Cliffs Roadless area this year (a very long way from the roads) and with the heat in august is was extremely tough hunting. With the heat in early september it was extremely tough hunting! There was a huge difference in how the elk responded in September VS. August. You either haven't bow hunted elk or you are smoking something if you think it is just as easy to call an elk in in August as it is September during the rut. Please tell me why rifle hunters need the advantage of the rut and the archery hunter's don't? The only reason you don't want it changed is because you are about to draw. What about everyone else that wants an opurtunity to draw a good bull tag? Move the hunt out of the rut and more people will be able to hunt big bulls in Utah. Try taking your "spear,or a bow for that matter" out in August and try to kill an elk and let us know how that goes. Good Luck to you on your OIL any weapon hunt. It is the only one you will go on in this state unless something changes.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-02-09 AT 12:36PM (MST)[p]Because their offspring from years past don't have the same genes?????? Hmmmm.


NO.

If you want to gun hunt them in the middle of the rut, why not in February on winter range? Then you can just take your pick without all of that pesky hiking and it can be 100% statewide, After all, it's once in a life time..........
 
Your never going to be able to make everyone happy, so the DWR is appealing to the biggest percentage of people. I would hunt them on the winter range if those where the dates, I don't hunt with a bow so I won't complain either way.... do what you want, but if the archers are still unsuccesful in the prime time what are you going to have to complain about?
 
Tay I'm with ya 100%, I am a Utah resident with 17 bonus points for elk. I think max point guys deserve their day under the sun.
 
Bingo!!! That's the point Tay. More people will be unsuccessful during the rut/archery hunt which is why the archery hunt should be in the rut. Why do we 90% success rifle hunts in the rut? That is why it's taking your buddy 17 years to draw. Higher success = fewer tags = 17 years to draw. What's wrong with an October rifle hunt? Are people worried about not being able to kill a bull with a gun in October?
 
Yes. Keep it right in the middle of the rut. They screwed up this year. Too early. Give the rifle guys Aug 1st to Oct 31st.

This subject makes my ass ache.
 
The DWR uses the rifle hunt as a management tool!!! They are NOT giving the rifle guys a better advantage!!! The rifle hunt is utilized as a management tool and if this were not the case the elk populations in UTAH would explode and be just like colorado, lots of elk, very few trophies!!!
Everyone thinks it has something to do with advantage, this is horribly wrong. If the DWR was relying on the archers and ML guys to manage (based off kill percentage) we would be up Sh__creek without a paddle!!

I am 100% with the LE rifle being where it is at, based off of what I saw this year the ML guys had the better chance at big bulls than the rifle guys did!!! My bull was bigger than any of the rifle bulls in the area I was hunting!!

The archers get almost a full month, is this not enough!!! Regardless of heat, the leaves being on, the animals not cooperating, whatever the complaint. I have personally witnessed how successful an archery hunt can be, maybe the people complaining are just plain and simply not putting out the effort they should be!!! STRAIGHT UP !!!!

Just my two cents!!!!! We are managing "SOME" of the biggest bulls in the world, Why screw up something that is not broken!!

Also, patience year in and year out has gotten us this way.
"MORE AND MORE OPPORTUNITY"
 
>The DWR uses the rifle hunt
>as a management tool!!! They
>are NOT giving the rifle
>guys a better advantage!!! The
>rifle hunt is utilized as
>a management tool and if
>this were not the case
>the elk populations in UTAH
>would explode and be just
>like colorado, lots of elk,
>very few trophies!!!
>Everyone thinks it has something to
>do with advantage, this is
>horribly wrong. If the DWR
>was relying on the archers
>and ML guys to manage
>(based off kill percentage) we
>would be up Sh__creek without
>a paddle!!


So what your saying is that without killing bulls in the rut with a rifle UTAH would turn into Colorado. With logic like this, I bet you have a star by your name.

NO, most other states have great trophy opportunities with out hunting bulls in the Rut. I would bet 90% of the rest of the nations trophy bull units are not with a rifle in the rut.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-02-09 AT 05:34PM (MST)[p]>The DWR uses the rifle hunt
>as a management tool!!! They
>are NOT giving the rifle
>guys a better advantage!!! The
>rifle hunt is utilized as
>a management tool and if
>this were not the case
>the elk populations in UTAH
>would explode and be just
>like colorado, lots of elk,
>very few trophies!!!
>Everyone thinks it has something to
>do with advantage, this is
>horribly wrong. If the DWR
>was relying on the archers
>and ML guys to manage
>(based off kill percentage) we
>would be up Sh__creek without
>a paddle!!
>
>I am 100% with the LE
>rifle being where it is
>at, based off of what
>I saw this year the
>ML guys had the better
>chance at big bulls than
>the rifle guys did!!! My
>bull was bigger than any
>of the rifle bulls in
>the area I was hunting!!
>
>
>The archers get almost a full
>month, is this not enough!!!
>Regardless of heat, the leaves
>being on, the animals not
>cooperating, whatever the complaint. I
>have personally witnessed how successful
>an archery hunt can be,
>maybe the people complaining are
>just plain and simply not
>putting out the effort they
>should be!!! STRAIGHT UP !!!!
>
>
>Just my two cents!!!!! We are
>managing "SOME" of the biggest
>bulls in the world, Why
>screw up something that is
>not broken!!
>
>Also, patience year in and year
>out has gotten us this
>way.
>
>
> "MORE AND
>MORE OPPORTUNITY"



Ok...so I agree with you that they use the rifle hunt as a management tool...GREAT!!!! It still doesn't need to be during the rut. If the rifle hunters success goes down if the hunt is in Oct. Then that is even better....they will get to issue more tags and more OPPORTUNITY!!!! Bow hunters success will go up slightly but NO WHERE near 98%. Also....I don't know many bowhunters that don't put in the hard work....you have no choice...you either work hard or you see NOTHING!!! I can't tell you how many times I have had an elk at 15 yards but couldn't take the shot because of the position of the elk.

Also....just some food for thought....as the archery hunt became statewide and also had the extended season....wow look at how many people picked up a bow!!!! Change will determine behavior. There would be many IMHO that would change over for the opportunity to hunt a good size bull more than once in a lifetime if they had to switch to a bow or muzzleloader. Personally...I would rather shoot a 320" bull with my bow than a 400" bull with a rifle...just me but I would do that every time if I knew that I would have more than just one shot in my lifetime.
 
>So what your saying is that
>without killing bulls in the
>rut with a rifle UTAH
>would turn into Colorado. With
>logic like this, I bet
>you have a star by
>your name.

Or homework.......... :D
 
NO RIFLE IN THE RUT
only ML and Archery in the rut a 50/50 split.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
NO. Take all the hunts out of the rut. Leave archery where it is and double the tags. Leave muzzy where it is and double the tags. Give more tags out and keep the late hunt where it is. You could double the tags and not kill more bulls.
 
No! In idaho we have such a problem with the drop in numbers that we need to take action ourselves, maybe by shooting more dogs, bears, and etc.. I quit bow hunting years ago because of this problem. I know this may not be the answer to our wolf problem but it is what I chose to do. Maybe it would be nice to see if the archers could poke a few holes in some big bad wolves. This could be a challenge.
 

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