(updated) Dutton predictions

muleycraz · Oct 4, 2009

Who was the local guy that lived near or on the unit that said maybe, maybe a couple 350 bulls would get killed on this unit but thats it and that it sucked and was over rated lololol. Jims also said there were only 3 360 bulls on this burned crap mountain wow boys I seen some dandy bulls come off the mountain! I wonder how they got there?????

slamdunk · Oct 4, 2009

They all ran across the streets from neighboring units to commit suicide i guess. Lol

REDDOG · Oct 4, 2009

did it ever cross your mind that they were playing defence? I'm sure they were thrilled with all the publicity.

stinkystomper · Oct 4, 2009

That never crossed my mind. After having talked with a few different locals on the mountain that told me the raghorns were some of the better bulls in the unit and thats all you could hope to find, one thing did occur to me. The locals are some of the dumbest people I've ever met. At least say something like 370 bulls are taken often but 390 and 400 are not even possible in that unit. That would be believable. But to say 300 is a giant???? ROFDL! Only a moron would say something like that! LOL

silly liberals, paychecks are for workers!

shed1 · Oct 5, 2009

Stinky,
No need to be a ##### there is only one local idiot on the mountain and I know you already met him maybe they were talking about Panguitch Lake? But if they keep increasing tags a 340 might be a monster!

jims · Oct 5, 2009

I'll stand by my claim that from what I saw in 2008 I didn't think there would be many..if any 360+ bulls on Dutton this year! I only saw 3 that size in 2008 and the year before easily saw a dozen...with a couple that were over 400. I know at least 1 of those 400+ bulls got shot in 2008. I saw a lot of herd bulls running around in 2008 that were 300 to 320 class in 2008 and several of the guides I spoke to saw the same thing. Most bulls I saw in 2008 had super short back forks with decent fronts. You may want to go back and do a search on the Dutton and just about every limited unit in Utah in 2008 and there were hardly any 380+ bulls seen or shot. Most had decent fronts and poor backs. It was like antler growth shut down towards the end of the antler growing season.

After the 2008 season I wasn't sure if it was a drought issue or younger bulls? With the increase in Utah tags I had a feeling it was a combination of both. Obviously there are some older age class bulls still available in Utah but it wouldn't take many years like 2009 to change things in a hurry! Any monster elk addicts in Utah better be trying to persuade some of the head guys in the department into changing away from 4 to 5 year old age class or the days of 360+ bulls may be short lived! I think anyone that knows much about elk antler growth knows that it takes 6 to 8 years to produce giant bulls!

I didn't make it over to the Dutton this year but it sounds like all the stars lined up for a decent rifle hunt. I wasn't there to get a feel for an "average" bull harvested but have a sneaking suspician there were quite a few 330 or less bulls shot? It will be interesting to see what happens next year! I just hope Utah remains somewhat conservative with their elk tags so others have the chance to hunt super bulls!

mustache · Oct 5, 2009

Jims

A lot of the bulls that I saw also had good fronts and somewhat weak backs like you said its almost like they just stopped growing. The thing that impressed me with the bull that i ended up taking was it had great mass, good 4ths, and better 5ths than i had seen on any other bulls.

Having said that in 2006 i was on the late hunt and the quality of the average bull was lots better than what i saw on my hunt this year.

in my opinion adding the additional tags has hurt the quality, however, more people have the ability to draw, they just need to adjust their expetations or hire someone to scout all season long.

swbuckmaster · Oct 6, 2009

jims
the age class is there, the difference between last year and this year was last year was moisture, durring the time the bulls were growing their horns. This does two things

First it makes for a crappy rut cause you need good feed to fuel a rut. Some of the cows wont go into heat on a dry year. It is natures way of helping them through the winter.

The second thing it does is makes the bulls shorter in length and thin in mass

This year we had good winter snow for early horn growth and good summer rain for health cows and finishing off the top end on bulls. this years rut is also the best I have seen on an open bull unit. I cant even imagine what it would have been like on that mountain.

You wont have a problem with quality on that mountain cause most guys stay in a camper on the top of the hill next to the roads. If guys were hunting like that you are just plain killing their self on that mountain with all that hiking.

Archery is a year round commitment!!

stinkystomper · Oct 6, 2009

Jims,

I believed you 100% on what you saw in 2008. I however believed it was 100% due to drought conditions. I figured that a lot of older bulls walked because of score and would create a good scenario in 2009 if the moisture was there. Boy did I make a good gamble. The older bulls were all over the place. However, I think 75% of the big ones got whacked this year and that the herd had a hurtin put on em from this year. I don't think I will go back next year due to the sheer amount of older bulls that were killed. I may be wrong but thats my two cents.

silly liberals, paychecks are for workers!

koldtrailin · Oct 7, 2009

I am hoping we get some snow for the late hunt. It might be good!?!?

Hooner · Oct 8, 2009

I was one of the people that was on here telling you guys were crazy and that the game is changing on the Dutton. You all told me that I was Crazy. Then I was able to read your post and the game is changing on that mountain.
One thing that was obvious to me was the spike hunt and that it would affect the unit negatively. I read multiple post that said the spike hunt messed a lot of things up. There was additional hunt numbers on the mountian compared to years past. I can't remember seeing one post that said that the spike hunt in no way affected the hunting of others. that was jsut the beginning. There was a ton of cows and spikes that came off that mountian. That will definetly hurt the Dutton in years to come.
I also stated that the quality was down. Stinky and some others were able to take some quality bulls. However I still believe that quality is down compared to years 2001- 2007. I will stand by that statement. You can say what you want I have been on the mountian and seen with my eyes. It's my opinion.
There was one thing that just blew me away. There is a certian area on that mountain that I love to hunt and always has a ton of elk. There was not a single muzzleloader elk hunter in this area on the first 3 days of the hunt. Totally blew me away. Thought with 50 plus tags on the muzzy people would be crawling all over that entire mountain.
You all can say how great the hunting is on the Dutton and I will agree as I did before that there are big elk on that hill. It is just getting harder and harder to come by one. Stinky can go on and on about how many big elk he saw. However look at the amouunt of experianced eyes that he had with him. 3-4 guys helping him at all times. Countless hours over the summer and fall days.
The unit is changing for some of us that is more obvious than for others.

jims · Oct 8, 2009

You may want to take a look at the "Beaver" report post. It sounds a lot like what I saw last year on the Dutton? Beaver butts right up to the Dutton and some of the elk winter in both units. I almost wonder if some of those bulls go back and forth between the units? It will be interesting to see what things look like next year after several top bulls were shot on the Dutton. I'm sure great winter/spring moisture produced great antler growth this year but as I've been saying all along it takes a lot of years to produce 360+ bulls...with increased tags how long can it last?

bullmania · Oct 8, 2009

From what i have heard years where there is a drought the Beaver unit produces bigger bulls as there is more natural water and the bulls migrate to the beaver and stay because of the water .Years when the water is on the Dutton the bulls stay put as they have no reason to leave...

The genetics on the Dutton and Beaver units appear very similar
however if the animals are killed prior to maturity it never comes into play ....

Utah is definitely seeing a decline from 2006 when it peaked out for monster bulls.

Its going to get tougher and with the economy the way it is tag prices are going to tumble even more in the future...

Bullmania