berger vs barnes
- Thread starter hkm
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M
muleyslayer02
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Berger all the way!!! Killed 6 elk over 650 yards one shot.
L
LeosRedFox
Guest
What caliber?
I've shot a lot of elk with my 270 WSM using 140g Barnes TSX and I've shot a few elk with my 30-06 and 300 WSM using 168g Barnes TSX.
I have no concerns using the 240 g in a 270 but I want some with more sectional density in a 30 caliber rifle.
I've shot a lot of elk with my 270 WSM using 140g Barnes TSX and I've shot a few elk with my 30-06 and 300 WSM using 168g Barnes TSX.
I have no concerns using the 240 g in a 270 but I want some with more sectional density in a 30 caliber rifle.
2
264X300
Guest
Pretty tall tale there Muleyslayer02!! Six elk with one shot??? That must be one heck of a good bullet.
:>))
264X300
:>))
264X300
I've been a Barnes guy forever. However, I just made the switch. Nosler Accu Bond. The ballistic coefficient is better than TSX. I couldn't believe the difference in my .338 ballistics. The .270 was better with a 140AB than a 130 TSX and the .300 Win Mag with a 180 or 200 grain (.550 BC) was very impressive in the Accu Bond.
I have a buddy that shoots Berger in his .257 STW. He was having issues with it blowing up until this year. Not sure if he cranked it down a bit or not. He just used them on a Barbary and he just shot an antelope at 625. Pounded them both.
I have a buddy that shoots Berger in his .257 STW. He was having issues with it blowing up until this year. Not sure if he cranked it down a bit or not. He just used them on a Barbary and he just shot an antelope at 625. Pounded them both.
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need2hunt
Guest
I'm thinking that the berger bullet may give you problems on closer distance shots (blowing up). Hunting has a lot of opportunity/circumstance involved and you may not always be shooting long distance...for that reason i'd go with the barnes bullet.
M
MonteMontana
Guest
My brother-in-law just shot an elk with his 300RUM at around 200 yards. The rounds were made special for his gun/scope. The bullets were Bergers. The bullet exploded on entry. The elk did die because the shrapnel tore up the lungs but nothing even touched the opposite rib cage. If he had hit the shoulder (my preferred shot), that bullet may not have even penetrated. A 300RUM that doesn't pass through the lungs at 200 yards? I won't be usuing Berger's any time soon. Hornady, Barns, or Sciroccos for me.
BIGJOHNT
Long Time Member
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I have been using Barnes for years with out a problem. I have used the .338 x bullet and there blue coated bullet ,they no longer carry. They found that the three rings cut into the the bullet did the same thing as the coating .
I have been shooting the MRX 's now in my 338 and my 300 tejas with out a problem.
I guess when it comes down to it , you need to shoot what your rifle likes. Practise with your loads before you go into the field. Know what you bullet is going to do when you pull the trigger.
As far as killing goes I have never recovered a bullet after kill. I killed a deer at 625 yards bullet entered behind the left shoulder and exited threw the right shoulder. I thought i may have a bullet to recover after that one but no ! Another deer at 534 yards threw both lungs broadside . Hit a couple of ribs. No bullet.
My brother in law shot a elk at 75 yards with a 7mm lead core bullet. The bullet came apart as it entered the rib cage never came out. Luck the fragraments from the bullet hit the heart and where scaredaround the body cavity and stuck in the hide of the oppsite side. I have them in a sandwhich bag . ( a 7mm shotgun )
I have shot elk as well one 6 x 6 bull shot at the base of his neck came out his hind end . Two more broad side threw the ribs still no bullet to recover . I want to show you a bullet but I can't maybe someday. Don't give me that conetic energy crap ether . It didn't deliver all of it's engery if it was a pass threw . Its what vital organ you hit in the wound channel or vanes you cut as the bullet travels threw that kills the animal ! Not the energy it has ,but that another topic isn'it.
Then you get into the if you hunt down south ,please dont use lead core ammo . With barnes you dont have to worry about that one .
As far as Berger bullets go I have heard they are pretty good . But I have not hunted with them. If I have a gun that has a problem shooting barnes bullets I would go to berger and give them a try . I haven't had a problem and have been happy with barnes. Maybe it 's a utah thing ?
Hope this helps you in your choice.
I have been shooting the MRX 's now in my 338 and my 300 tejas with out a problem.
I guess when it comes down to it , you need to shoot what your rifle likes. Practise with your loads before you go into the field. Know what you bullet is going to do when you pull the trigger.
As far as killing goes I have never recovered a bullet after kill. I killed a deer at 625 yards bullet entered behind the left shoulder and exited threw the right shoulder. I thought i may have a bullet to recover after that one but no ! Another deer at 534 yards threw both lungs broadside . Hit a couple of ribs. No bullet.
My brother in law shot a elk at 75 yards with a 7mm lead core bullet. The bullet came apart as it entered the rib cage never came out. Luck the fragraments from the bullet hit the heart and where scaredaround the body cavity and stuck in the hide of the oppsite side. I have them in a sandwhich bag . ( a 7mm shotgun )
I have shot elk as well one 6 x 6 bull shot at the base of his neck came out his hind end . Two more broad side threw the ribs still no bullet to recover . I want to show you a bullet but I can't maybe someday. Don't give me that conetic energy crap ether . It didn't deliver all of it's engery if it was a pass threw . Its what vital organ you hit in the wound channel or vanes you cut as the bullet travels threw that kills the animal ! Not the energy it has ,but that another topic isn'it.
Then you get into the if you hunt down south ,please dont use lead core ammo . With barnes you dont have to worry about that one .
As far as Berger bullets go I have heard they are pretty good . But I have not hunted with them. If I have a gun that has a problem shooting barnes bullets I would go to berger and give them a try . I haven't had a problem and have been happy with barnes. Maybe it 's a utah thing ?
Hope this helps you in your choice.
elkantlers
Long Time Member
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Elk don't care about sub-MOA.
one_dryboot
Long Time Member
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I just shot my first animal with a berger. My bear was a little over 500 yards. One shot and it was lights out. Bergers are not made to have an exit hole but I can tell you it looked like a bomb went off in its chest. And that was after it went through its front shoulder. I'm happy so far.
liecabucks
Very Active Member
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Are you really gonna start that?
Sit tall in the saddle, hold your head up high, keep your eyes fixed to where the trail meets the sky...
Sit tall in the saddle, hold your head up high, keep your eyes fixed to where the trail meets the sky...
I
isayNUNYA
Guest
I see anywhere from 15 to 20 elk and half a dozen deer and sheep killed a year. Most are killed with barnes bullets. The one thng I have found is barnes bullets will make you a better tracker. Your going to get lots of practice.
I shoot Berger and Accubonds. Nothing like a gernade going off inside the chest cavity!
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"I needed a cheesy signature saying like everyone else"
I shoot Berger and Accubonds. Nothing like a gernade going off inside the chest cavity!
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"I needed a cheesy signature saying like everyone else"
Verticalslope
Active Member
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A buddy of mine just took an elk this year with his .300 WSM shooting at an Accubond bullet. He retrieved the bullet and it appeared to perform excellent. It mushroomed great and still maintained decent weight even though he hasn't officially measured the retrieved slug. The shoot great groups too.
K
ktc
Guest
hkm,
Here is my experience. A few years back I wanted to work up the best load I could find for my 300WM. I tried different powders and slugs and also floated and bedded my barrel and action. The best group I got was with a 180 grain Sciroccos. Almost identical to the Accubond I am thinking. Anyway, I wanted a good bonded bullet for my elk hunt. I have used that gun and load for everything since.
I took my elk, my wife killed her elk with one shot. I took the gun antelope hunting and was a little wrried it would be a bit to tough of a bullet on deer and antelope. The Scirocco has killed 2 elk, 2 antelope, Oryx, mountain goat, and 2 deer. They have all died with one hit and perform great. I use Accubonds in my 270. I would highly recommend trying the Scirocco. They have been perfect for me. I cannot see myself ever using anything different in my 300. Totally pleased with them.
Here is my experience. A few years back I wanted to work up the best load I could find for my 300WM. I tried different powders and slugs and also floated and bedded my barrel and action. The best group I got was with a 180 grain Sciroccos. Almost identical to the Accubond I am thinking. Anyway, I wanted a good bonded bullet for my elk hunt. I have used that gun and load for everything since.
I took my elk, my wife killed her elk with one shot. I took the gun antelope hunting and was a little wrried it would be a bit to tough of a bullet on deer and antelope. The Scirocco has killed 2 elk, 2 antelope, Oryx, mountain goat, and 2 deer. They have all died with one hit and perform great. I use Accubonds in my 270. I would highly recommend trying the Scirocco. They have been perfect for me. I cannot see myself ever using anything different in my 300. Totally pleased with them.
S
Spencer
Guest
>I will try some 160 accubond.
I think you will be pleasantly surprised at just how good of a bullet this is! I killed my first elk with a 180gr AB from my 30-06 last year and I am shooting the 225gr AB in my .338 Win Mag (.9" at 100 yds and 2860 fps).
Scott
Member: RMEF, SCI, NRA, and TU
I think you will be pleasantly surprised at just how good of a bullet this is! I killed my first elk with a 180gr AB from my 30-06 last year and I am shooting the 225gr AB in my .338 Win Mag (.9" at 100 yds and 2860 fps).
Scott
Member: RMEF, SCI, NRA, and TU
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
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I am not sure how a 168g bullet shoots the same velocity as a 140 unless you drop the load way down, but I shoot the 168g TTSX (tipped tripple shock--new bullet from Barnes). It actually has better BC than the Berger and I really like the way it shoots.
I have shot, or watched shot, approx. 20 critters from antelope to deer to elk with Barnes X type bullets (X, XLC MRX, Triple Shock, and TTSX).
The only time more than one shot was taken was when we weren't sure how good the first shot was so a quick second one was done for insurance.
Calibers were 24, 25, 7MM, and 30.
Most all were classic lung shots. Contrary to others experiences most went less than 20 yards. What initially impressed me with the bullets was that the first 2 deer we shot dropped in their tracks with lung shots. Every other animal I had shot in the lungs had ran 50 to 100 yards and then dropped.
Ranges were from 75 to 500 yards with the average being 250 to 300.
We have recovered only a few bullets mainly on elk when quartering and hitting a shoulder or two.
My only other experience with a premium bullet was when my daughter shot a moose with 180 Accubond in a 338. The moose was laying down at about 75 yards in thick cover. This is not a good shot and normally I would wait for the animal to get up. But given that she was a novice and this was probably her best chance I told her to put it behind the shoulder and squeeze. At the shot the moose quivered and then struggled to stand. I told her it was already done in but to put another one in it for insurance. It took a few steps and tipped over. The autopsy revealed that the first shot had hit its elbow, splattered, and did not even enter the rib cage. If she had not shot it a second time we would have been tracking for a long time.
My thought at the time was that if it had been a Barnes it would have penetrated on the first shot.
I am sure other brands of bullets are great but Barnes have seemed to work for us so far.
The only time more than one shot was taken was when we weren't sure how good the first shot was so a quick second one was done for insurance.
Calibers were 24, 25, 7MM, and 30.
Most all were classic lung shots. Contrary to others experiences most went less than 20 yards. What initially impressed me with the bullets was that the first 2 deer we shot dropped in their tracks with lung shots. Every other animal I had shot in the lungs had ran 50 to 100 yards and then dropped.
Ranges were from 75 to 500 yards with the average being 250 to 300.
We have recovered only a few bullets mainly on elk when quartering and hitting a shoulder or two.
My only other experience with a premium bullet was when my daughter shot a moose with 180 Accubond in a 338. The moose was laying down at about 75 yards in thick cover. This is not a good shot and normally I would wait for the animal to get up. But given that she was a novice and this was probably her best chance I told her to put it behind the shoulder and squeeze. At the shot the moose quivered and then struggled to stand. I told her it was already done in but to put another one in it for insurance. It took a few steps and tipped over. The autopsy revealed that the first shot had hit its elbow, splattered, and did not even enter the rib cage. If she had not shot it a second time we would have been tracking for a long time.
My thought at the time was that if it had been a Barnes it would have penetrated on the first shot.
I am sure other brands of bullets are great but Barnes have seemed to work for us so far.
deerfanatic
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I've been a barnes bullet fan for years also. One thing to consider BIGJOHNT on the bullet completely passing at long range is expansion. While the barnes advertizes near 100% weight retention with controled expansion, there is a trade-off for having that abilily in a bullet. At short ranges (<250 yards) I have always found the bullet. The bullet retains most of the weight, but the expansion comes back nearly half way back the shank.
At longer ranges I have had similar experiences as you have had. The bullet passes through the animal. The reason is it is acting like a full metal jacket as the velocity slows. There just isn't enough energy left to open up the bullet. Personnally, I don't like firing shots out past 300 yards due to bullet performance, but I do at the range. One good test is to take several large boxes that are about 12"x12"x12" or bigger. Fill these boxes with wet newspapers and place them out at the incremental ranges. At 100 yards you will see a beutiful, steeply angled cone shape through the bullet path. As your ranges get farther out, the cone angles will get narrower and narrower. This gives you a good idea to the damage it will cause a critter when they get blasted.
I guess the point I'm tring to make is that if your situation is always a 300+ yard shot, a new bullet selection may be in order. I love the barnes out to 300 and possibly 400 yards. After that the expansion just isn't there to open them up enough IMHO. In my personel case I need to either pick a new bullet or limit my shot distance. I've choosen to stay with barnes and limit my distance. If you like the long range idea, you may want to look into a different bullet. The trade-off could be way to more expansion than your comfortable with if a short range situation applies.
At longer ranges I have had similar experiences as you have had. The bullet passes through the animal. The reason is it is acting like a full metal jacket as the velocity slows. There just isn't enough energy left to open up the bullet. Personnally, I don't like firing shots out past 300 yards due to bullet performance, but I do at the range. One good test is to take several large boxes that are about 12"x12"x12" or bigger. Fill these boxes with wet newspapers and place them out at the incremental ranges. At 100 yards you will see a beutiful, steeply angled cone shape through the bullet path. As your ranges get farther out, the cone angles will get narrower and narrower. This gives you a good idea to the damage it will cause a critter when they get blasted.
I guess the point I'm tring to make is that if your situation is always a 300+ yard shot, a new bullet selection may be in order. I love the barnes out to 300 and possibly 400 yards. After that the expansion just isn't there to open them up enough IMHO. In my personel case I need to either pick a new bullet or limit my shot distance. I've choosen to stay with barnes and limit my distance. If you like the long range idea, you may want to look into a different bullet. The trade-off could be way to more expansion than your comfortable with if a short range situation applies.
wrldhunter
Member
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If both bullets are giving sub MOA grouping, it sounds like either would work well for you. In my opinion, I would go with the Bergers. Berger offers you a better bullet coefficient and I prefer a little heavier bullet for hunting bull elk. Most of the time I hunt with a 168 gr Berger VLD in 7mm. I have shot several bull elk, deer and caribou with this combination and have only good things to say about Berger bullets. These bullets to penetrate a few inchare designed es before expanding, then they begin to expand and break apart. You probably won't end up with a lot of bullet weight retention, but the bullet does leave a massive wound channel. I have taken animals fom 55 to 550 yards and the bullets perform everytime. Nothing against Barnes bullets, they have performed well for me too, I just have more experience with the Bergers. Hit em where you are supposed to and both bullets will kill elk.
Wes
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Here's some interesting reading. Berger makes two different jacket thickness's. Their hunting bullets have a thin jacket and their target bullets have jackets that are .004" to .005" thicker. There has been some debate about the thinner jacketed bullets not performing properly at shorter ranges, ie blowing up at the higher velocities of the short ranges. They are not recommending the target bullets for hunting at this time as they have not had any testing or feed back from hunter using them. I just received a box of the thicker jacketed target bullets and will load up a few today. We have three cow elk tags so I'll be able to test both.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/berger-barnes-bullet-performance-1.php
Wes
http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/berger-barnes-bullet-performance-1.php
Wes
S
Soregonhunter
Guest
Stick with barnes they work great in my 30.06.
