Colorado nonresident cow goes to $350

txhunter58

Long Time Member
Messages
8,489
Economy hurting us all, so here is another dagger. The Colorado DOW decided one way they can try and make if up is upping the cow tag prices $100. I am surprised they kept it down so long, but it IS a kick in the pants! Will have to think about it before just putting that down as a second choice next year. Here is the link:

http://wildlife.state.co.us/NR/rdonlyres/60416172-71A9-4973-A854-5D4AF4B6D7FC/0/Ch2CPI.pdf

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-09 AT 06:01AM (MST)[p]I plan on a cow elk/mule deer hunt next year.Another 100 dollars won't stop me ,but it does make me think if the total cost of the trip is all worth it when I have great deer hunting right here in michigan.Might be hunting closer to home in the future.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-09 AT 11:31AM (MST)[p]Bull S_it!!!


www.albinovest.com http://huntfishwa.com/

4af319e340394e59.jpg
 
Bet the resident tags didn't go up! Idaho has a noted drop in income this year and did not sell out on elk tags for NR this year because of fee increases this year.
 
The rise in fee tells me that they want less nonreidents huntng in Colorado.Look out residents,when they don't sell as many nonresident license,then up goes the resident tags.Revenue is money and when they do not get it one way,they will go after it another.
 
I would be more OK with going to a limit on nonresident hunter numbers instead of pricing guys out of hunting your great state. I can pretty much afford to pay what they ask (at least so far), but not all can. So I would be behind your lobbying for making all norsident tags draw only and limited if you will also lobby not to keep raising our prices.

The DOW wants their cake and wants to eat it too. Raise prices on us, which will lower our ranks a little and make you guys happy, but still get the same $ from us. It is a win win for them until the day we decide we have had enough. Chances are this will not be the staw that breaks the camels back, but it is coming.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I can agree with that. It is hard enough to find a decent bull in Colorado but it makes it even tougher when there are a thousand fourwheelers flying up every trail. Took my wife out this weekend for a hunt and it looked like an RV park everywhere we went. One camp had probably 10 campers and close to 15 trucks with California plates.
 
Glad i don't hunt wherever you do.

>I can agree with that. It
>is hard enough to find
>a decent bull in Colorado
>but it makes it even
>tougher when there are a
>thousand fourwheelers flying up every
>trail. Took my wife
>out this weekend for a
>hunt and it looked like
>an RV park everywhere we
>went. One camp had probably
>10 campers and close to
>15 trucks with California plates.
>


dutch
http://coloradohuntandfish.blogspot.com
 
Colo raised the prices some years back to 500.00 for a Elk tag nobody was buying them so they dropped the cow tags back to 250.00 if'in I remember right? anyway the first hunt is ether sex it is one way to sell cow tags for 500.00 or just a way to keep hunters coming back? I could have killed a cow but ate my tag this year in Colo.

CANNON
 
I am glad they increased the price but I do expect the resident price to go up to off set the loss of revenue. I just hope this does lower the number of nonresidents floating around. Kind of gets your goat when you have 4 people put in for a limited draw cow hunt and not 1 draws a tag but yet numberous nonresidents are successful at drawing when zero preferance points are required to draw...We live in a remote part of the country and use these hunts as a way of subsistance and when we don't draw it creates a significant impact upon us and numerous other locals as well who were also unsuccessful to drawing. I know of several old timers in town here and they have noticed this trend drift more towards the nonresidents and away from the tax paying residents. We do not expect to draw the best bull and buck tags every years but when we can't even get a decent chance at drawing a cow tag to meat on the table then there are some issues needing addressed.
 
I wish they would raise the price of a cow to equal that of a bull tag for non residents. I see out of staters in muzzleloading season, one with a muzzleloader and one with a bow and off they go. Then in rifle season a camp of ten or twelve people hunting cows with one guy with a bull tag. Colorado needs to eliminate these type of hunters and I use the term hunters loosely when they seem to be party hunting. As far as raising the residents tag I am all for it, maybe our hunts will get better with less rifraf in the field. Non residents if you don't like it you can always find another state to hunt or maybe boycott Colorado.
 
>I am glad they increased the
>price but I do expect
>the resident price to go
>up to off set the
>loss of revenue. I just
>hope this does lower the
>number of nonresidents floating around.
>Kind of gets your goat
>when you have 4 people
>put in for a limited
>draw cow hunt and not
>1 draws a tag but
>yet numberous nonresidents are successful
>at drawing when zero preferance
>points are required to draw...We
>live in a remote part
>of the country and use
>these hunts as a way
>of subsistance and when we
>don't draw it creates a
>significant impact upon us and
>numerous other locals as well
>who were also unsuccessful to
>drawing. I know of several
>old timers in town here
>and they have noticed this
>trend drift more towards the
>nonresidents and away from the
>tax paying residents. We do
>not expect to draw the
>best bull and buck tags
>every years but when we
>can't even get a decent
>chance at drawing a cow
>tag to meat on the
>table then there are some
>issues needing addressed.

What you are implying is not possible under the present preference point system. You are guranteed 65% of the tags while we have a "cap" of 35%. That means that there are 2 resident tags given for each 1 nonresident tag drawn.

Lets say that 100 residents with 0 points put in and 100 nonresidents with 5 points put in. 65 residents would still draw even with 0 points.

So if you have a problem drawing every year it is not because there are more nonresidents drawing, it is because more RESIDENTS are puttin in.


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-06-09 AT 09:40PM (MST)[p]>I wish they would raise the
>price of a cow to
>equal that of a bull
>tag for non residents. I
>see out of staters in
>muzzleloading season, one with a
>muzzleloader and one with a
>bow and off they go.
>Then in rifle season a
>camp of ten or twelve
>people hunting cows with one
>guy with a bull tag.
> Colorado needs to eliminate
>these type of hunters and
>I use the term hunters
>loosely when they seem to
>be party hunting. As
>far as raising the residents
>tag I am all for
>it, maybe our hunts will
>get better with less rifraf
>in the field. Non
>residents if you don't like
>it you can always find
>another state to hunt or
>maybe boycott Colorado.

Thanks for the enlightenment that only nonresidents are "rifraf". Sure glad to know that all resident hunters are great, ethical sportsmen. If you don't like the rules in YOUR state, get orgainzed and change them. Don't blame us and call us unsubstantiated names. I will put my groups ethics up against yours any day.

And if there are 9 nonresident cow hunters in a camp in your area, it is because not enough residents put in for those tags. After all, you get 65% (or more) of all tags regardless of how many points you have.

If you don't like the rules as they are and can't stand the rifraf, them maybe you should boycott.


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
35% is too much. Some states like Utah only allow 10 to 15% on non-resident tags. It is alright to have a 35% on general units but limited entry units should have a cap of only 10 to 15% for non-residents. Txhunter58 you are probably an ethical hunter but you are not an accurate representation of out-of-state hunters. I would have to agree that there are some hunters in the woods that should not be allowed to carry a gun or bow. Not to say that residents are perfect but many of us have grown up hunting deer and elk from day one.
 
I try to get to Colorado every other year fora muzzleloader hunt and the last couple times it hasbeen for cow elk.I guess I never realized how me and my money was thought of by resident hunters.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-09 AT 06:41AM (MST)[p]"droptine47 you are probably an ethical hunter but you are not an accurate representation of resident hunters. Not to say that nonresidents are perfect but many of us have grown up hunting deer and elk from day one...."

I have many friends from Colorado (hunting friends and nonhunting friends) and there are not a better group of people anywhere. But I have seen some slob hunters with CO liceses plates too. People are people wherever you go.......

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-09 AT 06:38AM (MST)[p]>TXhunter; names what names. You
>seem to be angry.

Anger, what anger?




txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-09 AT 06:50AM (MST)[p] Hunting Colorado for more than 30 years ,I have met some very good people and enjoyed talking to,but have met a couple that I would not care to run into again .But that is the same everywhere.
 
TX - Ditto on the res vs non-res hunter ethics as I've seen it on both sides. Last month we were talking to a group of locals that just walked out of the woods and not one had legal orange on, beer sticking out of their pockets, etc. Hunters ethics in my opinion are more closely tied to how you were brought up which is not dependant on where you live. Overall we've had lots more problems with non-ethical non-residents where I hunt but they also tend to outnumber the resident liscence plates by a significant margin. Anyway, after putting in for elk in several other states, I'd say Colorado is by far more generous to non-residents than any other States for opportunities and price. As a resident, I don't really like it when I compare it to how other States quotas work but as several have said, that is the DOW's responsibility to set policies, quotas, etc. From general discussions I've had with them their standard response is if you got any better ideas, lets hear them....oh as long as you don't effect our revenues! At any rate, I'd welcome any ethical, law abiding hunters regardless of where they live. I think it's the unethical/violators that all of us can't stand as it give hunters in general a bad image even amongst fellow hunters.
 
>
>What you are implying is not
>possible under the present preference
>point system. You are
>guranteed 65% of the tags
>while we have a "cap"
>of 35%. That means
>that there are 2 resident
>tags given for each 1
>nonresident tag drawn.
>
>Lets say that 100 residents with
>0 points put in and
>100 nonresidents with 5 points
>put in. 65 residents
>would still draw even with
>0 points.
>
>So if you have a problem
>drawing every year it is
>not because there are more
>nonresidents drawing, it is because
>more RESIDENTS are puttin in.
>
>
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)


If you look closer into your response you will see the answer. 35% is the number alloted to nonresidents. If this value was lower it would increase the residents opportunity to draw. Hence I agree with your earlier statement with putting a cap on the number of nonresidents allowed and not a percentage of the tags.

BTW how much does it cost a nonresident to hunt deer, muley's antelope or other big game in Texas?
 
>I try to get to Colorado
>every other year fora muzzleloader
>hunt and the last couple
>times it hasbeen for cow
>elk.I guess I never realized
>how me and my money
>was thought of by resident
>hunters.

Our town gets over run with hunters every year (thousands)and for the most part most are very decent people even out in the field. I personally know the gamewarden and he states the residents can be pretty naughty too when it comes to breaking the game laws.. Most laws broken by nonresidents are due to the lack of not knowing the rules of state, neglagance. My wife works at a local retailer and sells game licenses and she has an entire different outlook on the nonresidents. As put by her the majority act as if something is owed to them since they are a nonresident spending there dollars here. Many are extremely rude when informed about the cost for the tag they drew and knew the cost well before hand and then also whine and complain about how the state requires payment(cash). Then when it comes to getting service at the store they expect everyone to wait on them instead of having to wait there turn and to be truthful we have our largest issues with residents from 3 states in particular... So if some are sour about nonresidents its due to the over whelming number seen and encounted each year that are less than pleasant to aquant with. Its gets difficult to keep a positive head, we try but boy they test our patients...
 
I have never hunted elk in CO, but was planning on it if I don't draw here in NM (which I probrably won't). I would gladly pay double or triple to see huge cuts in the numbers of hunters. I believe that if you pay good $$$ for a hunt it should be somewhat special. From a lot of posts on here it sounds like OTC hunts are a free for all.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-09 AT 08:27AM (MST)[p]Texas nonresident license runs $315 for a general hunting license plus $7 each for an archery and turkey stamp. Here is what a nonresdent could take with this license:

5 whitetail (no more than two bucks)
1 mule deer.
4 turkeys.
unlimited hogs and exotics

You would be able to hunt the entire month of October, and starting with the first Saturday in November, for two months after with a rifle (or any other legal method).

Or you could come in the spring (April) and hunt turkeys and exotics (unlimited hogs and exotics) for 5 days for $174.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Tailchasers said:
"My wife works at a local retailer and sells game licenses and she has an entire different outlook on the nonresidents. As put by her the majority act as if something is owed to them since they are a nonresident spending there dollars here. Many are extremely rude when informed about the cost for the tag they drew and knew the cost well before hand and then also whine and complain about how the state requires payment(cash). Then when it comes to getting service at the store they expect everyone to wait on them instead of having to wait there turn"

You make very good points and I don't doubt that the majority of "problem children" are nonresidents. After all, the residents have to live with you. I suspect that Coloradans (sp?) when they hunt out of state would be the same way (demanding/rude) in the same proportions as people are people wherever you go. There are definately rude obnoxious people here in Texas!

I would also suspect that the attitude she sees in nonresidents is not just from hunters. Tourists of any kind are probably the same way.

And of course, there is always the issue of whether your wife would have a job without all of the nonresidents.

Bottom line for me is I consider it an honor and a privaledge to hunt your great state. Ok, I am addicted to it as well! Will keep doing it as long as I am able.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Pretty much off topic and a first post so this should make a good first impression! You mountain guys sure like to complain about non res big game hunters. Try living in the northeastern part of the state. RESIDENT pheasant, dove, waterfowl, and big game hunters trespass and break laws at a much higher frequency than anything I have ever seen in the mountains. Good possibility that one of these resident hunters I speak of is one of the guys complaining in this thread.

My point, there are bad examples of both res and non-res hunters.
 
I would gladly pay a little more as resident if it makes less hunters out there. They need to give out more resident tags anyway. I see way too many out of staters every year. I know they didnt make it 60/40 in residents favor a couple years ago that was a bunch of bs. And maybe we can actually start drawing some tags every year like it used to be instead of every 2 or 3 years. This makes me so happy, Im all for it. Not tryin to be a ##### just my 2 cents.
 
Ok if its too much then put in for your own State, I mean how many elk can you eat in a year anyways? 1 Cow will feed a family for most of the year, if you are needing to draw an additional tag just to kill something then quit complaining and give them the money.

As far as residents complaining about out of staters hunting their area you need to grow up and maybe thank those people for putting money into your local economy. I imagine if you owned a business in one of these towns you would know how much revenue it brings in, some communities actually live off of hunters coming that once a year.

I don't agree with raising non resident tags to 350 but if they do its because of the demand not because nobodys buying them haven't you bought gas for your vehicle lately its the same theory! I don't hunt Colorado anyway because of all the Private Property issues and outfitters taking advantage of it, that is nothing I want to experience I am more of a Public Land hunter and will pay for that what ever it takes but Outfitters leaching off of other people is not hunting to me!
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-09 AT 01:36PM (MST)[p]I guess in all my trips to Colorado,I never run into a resident hunter that felt I was intruding on his hunting area.As far as I can remember,they were all very friendly and we all got along great.I just don't think that the majority of Colorado resident hunters are against the nonresident hunters as much as the numbers of hunters in general in some areas.The number of nonresedent hunters is just a product of a game rich state that has a good amount of public land.I think the rules are set and we all have to live with it.
I for one am still making plans on being there next September for a cow elk and a muley buck,and if I do not go it will be my choice to hunt another state.May go to Wyoming.I hunt alone and when I leave my hunting area,I make sure that I leave nothing behind.I beleave in the saying Leave it better than you found it, when I camp.
 
REM308 I wish others would live by the words you just wrote and leave the area better. I took a drive in the hills and checked out a number of camp sites and couldn't belive the amount of trash left behind. I'd say 50% of the camp sites had trash left behind..Shameful. Wasn't hard to find them either, just look for the ravens and magpies. Then not to forget to mention the beer bottle/can that got toosed outta the vehicles too. The BLM has numerous signs posted too say "PACK IT OUT" but apparently some hunters can't read. Bunch of slobs. Seen 2 sights where there was a camp set up for 3 weeks and had a penske rental truck parked there with another 12 pick ups. You can only image the carnage they did to the area. I did take notice of what states they are from and just shock my head. I tell ya neck time I see a camp like that I will have a heard time keeping a tight lip about it. I don't come into you neighborhood and trash it so please be respectful of ours......
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-09 AT 06:46PM (MST)[p]I have to laugh at this post. If you can't get enough tags in Colorado as a resident to make you happy, you might want to give up hunting! Colorado is the most elk rich state in the country. My resident friends in Colorado have no difficulty killing a bull, cow and buck every single year, plus a trophy buck every fourth year and a bear tag about every other year on public land. These type of Colorado residents won't be on this complaining because they put the work in and found more than enough hunting opportunities.

Personally, I would be one happy man to have available to me what Colorado residents currently have. You would really be crying the blues if you drew "a" deer tag, not trophy unit, every 4-5 years and maybe one elk tag in your entire life like in Nevada. I suggest the whiners crack open the proclamation and draw statistics and take advantage of what your great state has to offer to you and stop blaming nonresidents.
 
I think it was a good idea to raise the cost and I would support a resident and NR price increase on all big game licenses by the same % as well. It is still very cheap to hunt in colorado and even with the $100 increase in cow tags colorado is one of the cheapest places for a NR to hunt for elk...

Next colorado needs to go to a breakdown like utah with only 15 - 20% going to NR hunters. It is also time to end the OTC tags and make colorado draw only for elk - all seasons, all units, and all methods of take. We heard all the horror stories about making deer draw only and as a resident I still hunt every year and everyone now agrees that draw only for deer worked. Again colorado needs to go with a 15 - 20% cap on NR hunters as well for deer as most other western states do..

To get rid of the point creep hunters should have to use all their points any time that they choose to hunt or draw a tag (even landowner tags I would keep em but just require hunters to use any points they have just the same as any other license).. So if you hunt a bull or a cow, buck or doe, private or public, - then you use all your points. right now 50% or more of hunters in the field hunting elk and deer every year are "building points" and thus the reason for point creep..

Finally my family has spent a few generations here in the hills of colorado and most of these little mountain towns just do not rely on the hunting traffic like they used to. Just something to think about.
 
Kayak, that is a great plan I like it. 15 to 20% cap on non-residents and if you hunt you use all points. I also like the all draw for elk.
 
It amazes me that when you live in a state that has millions of acres of public land available to hunt that you want more, meaning, that some of you want NR's to stay out so you can have more room to hunt and kill a big elk to sit back and brag about.
I have only bow hunted there 2 times but each time, in an OTC area I have encountered what I, and most of you, would consider big bulls, and numerous cows and have seen a total of 3 other hunters in those 2 hunts. By the way, I always bought a cow tag cause antlers do not interest me anymore but seeing those bulls were a real treat. Granted, I didn't kill an elk but you can bet that if I had been hunting them for years like many of you guys have that I would kill one every year if I hunted them every year. It is really mind boggling to me that each and every resident elk hunter doesn't get an elk every year as they should be able to scout often and know where they are when the season opens. Granted, some years are different but man, the opportunities you guys have are unbelievable to say the least. In my opinion, they are much easier to hunt than are our whitetails here in KY. Also, the only 2 times I have seen ATV's and dirt bike riders, they were residents and were nice enough to stop and see how we were doing and offer advice to us as NR hunters.
As far as NR fees here in KY, a person can get a NR license and deer tag for 190.00 which allows 1 buck and 1 doe, and for 15.00 more, another antlerless tag for 2 more does and in zone 1 areas, you can buy as many antlerless tags as you want and kill as many does as you want for 15.00 for 2. An elk tag chance is 10 dollars and 365 for a NR if drawn. Also, 4 turkeys in the fall for 60.00 NR. That's 265.00 for 4 deer, 4 turkeys, whatever small game is in season which is rabbits,quail,squirrels,coyotes,grouse, and 365 more for an elk if you get drawn. Not to bad if you like to hunt.
Anyway, I had fun and was looking forward to bringing my kids out there to hunt as they are getting old enough to hunt there now but guess we'll stay here and hope to get drawn for elk and hunt our local whitetails. 100 bucks doesn't seem like a lot but that nearly pays for the gas for the trip when split with a couple others and when buying tags for 3 it all adds up fast.
I'm done with my complaining so I hope some of you that don't like NR's have a great year and have as much undisturbed land as you think you need to attempt to get your bull. Also, to those residents that I met that were helpful and friendly, I say thanks to you and good luck in the years to come. I could go on and on but those who wish to push out NR's due to greed and selfishness will never change or understand regardless of what someone types on a forum so have fun guys, the hunts were fun and you have a great and beautiful state. Hope it stays that way.

Rob
 
I agree with the proposition that if you draw any tag, resident or nonresident, you burn your points. That is the only way you will ever fix point creep. However, it will never be implemented because the DOW needs someone to buy the less desirable tags.
 
I love to hunt elk!! More than can be satisfied in one state.

I hunted out of State for the first time ever this year and hunted Colorado Muzzy Cow tag. I'd have to say that the residents I encountered were waayyyy more polite and helpful to me than most out of state hunters would be treated in my state. We have had similar experiences with slob hunters and it is all too easy too blame it on non-residents. Maybe the reason I had a positive experience with my resident encounters is that a ethical respectable hunter recognizes another ethical respectable hunter? I know i have met out of state hunters that were very nice, respectable and ethical. As someone else said, people are people, some good some bad.

I really have no problem with Residents getting the cream of the tags, they should. I feel the same way about my state. And if CO wants to raise license fees, i still think they are fairly reasonable. The increase will hurt and may make me look at Utah or Idaho instead as they are closer. That is where CO may hurt itself with the fee increase.

One thing residents should keep in mind is that a large part of the funding that makes hunting/fish&game habitat better for residents is funded by nonresident tags. Its one of the tradeoffs. I don't know where the magic # or percentage is but i believe every state has a need for and should allow Nonresident hunting.
 
It's not about revenue and the DOW is perfectly aware of the result of this decision.

As the state's elk herds are reaching population objectives (as in DOWN to objective) the annual harvest must be reduced to keep from going too far under objective and playing catch-up.

The best way to do that without reducing "opportunity" is by making the 2nd tag (i.e. antlerless) option less desirable. Less tags sold (because of higher cost), less harvest, opportunities available remain unchanged, revenue remains relatively constant (less tags sold for more $ = DOW breaks even). Seems pretty well thought out to me.

The price of e/s and antlered tags is going down a few bucks so there's something to smile about. Or save the extra $2 per week and pay the extra $100 with $4 left over for coffee when you get here. Either way it's not a catastrophe.

Wish I could find the article again. It was on the DOW's website a couple of days ago.
 
I saw that article as well. Someone will have to hunt less maybe it should be the residents. I bet that I will only be able to hunt one season next year that is ok, I just hope the elk won't decline like the deer population did.
 
I just returned from my 6th Colorado Non resident mule deer hunt.

I believe that for the most part you are treated the same as you treat others. I noticed that almost everyone waved as I passed them on the dirt roads, regardless of the license plates on my truck or theirs.

I also talked to several locals, as well as non residents, and both were very polite and even suggested areas to try.

I noticed that there was some trash in the hills along the roads, but I notice that in almost every state that I hunt. I think that comes from two things; slobs that were not taught to put trash where it belongs, and trash blowing out of the back of pickups. I would never throw anything out on purpose, but I've had stuff blow out while I've been driving down a road, and I didn't go back and pick it up. I've been in charge of scouting groups and church groups that have picked up trash in different areas, and I'd say hunters are not the worst slobs when it comes to trash on the roadways and hills. We do need to do better though.

I think the tags are under priced in most states, especially for the residents. Since when is an elk only worth $40-$75? I don't care if you're a resident or not, they are worth more than that! I think resident fees should be jacked up in every state to reflect the true worth of the animals we hunt. It makes me sick to hear people complain that deer tags cost $35 and it's just killing them to pay it. What a joke. I've got 6 kids and they are starting to hunt and I'll tell you it's getting expensive to apply at home and out of state for them, but it gives me and them an opportunity to work hard to earn the money together so we can hunt together. I make my 13 year old daughter pay for half the cost of her tags, and I pick up the other half. She's hunted deer in Colorado once, Bull elk in AZ once, bucks in Utah, Antelope does in Utah, Spikes in Utah, and has a cow elk tag here in Utah later this year. My point is that if you want to hunt badly enough, you will find a way to do it. Even if the price is higher than last year.

Quit blaming the non residents for all the problems. There are awesome people from every state, and like I tell people at my job. I'm a taxidermist and I deal with the greatest people on earth on a daily basis.....HUNTERS! Try dealing with people that don't hunt and then tell me hunters aren't the greatest. Besides, we're all Americans, and we all belong the the "United" states.

Deerbedead.
 

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