How Many of You are MDF members?

S

sheepeater

Guest
We are trying to start a Mule deer foundation chapter here in Bozeman Montana and I am wondering what those of you who are members, thoughts and experiences are?
hunterrunningfrombearlgclr5ju.gif
 
Been a member for 3 years.

The magazine has greatly improved in the last year and over-all they do good things for mule deer, IMO.

I dont agree with the organization on everything, but I expect that. I'll continue to support them.
 
I have been a member for over 10 years. There has been some ups and downs but Tony et al have done a great job in turning MDF around and I believe they are heading in the right direction. Ryan et al has done wonders for the magazine and I believe they are back on track with most all of their operations.

Shawn
 
I'm a lifer and have been for over a decade. I don't agree with everything they do, but it's a solid organization and they try hard to do things for the critters I care about the most. My time schedule does not allow me to go to many meetings, but I try to do what I can, and I enjoy the magazine.
 
I've been a member for about one year, I live back east in whitetail country, but from what i can tell it is a first class organization. I would like to personally thank Tony Abbot for a hell of a good job.
 
I was a member for several years until just recently we had a baby and went from two incomes to one, and I let the membership expire, along with the RMEF as well. I'll join back up as soon as I am able, because I really think all hunters should support these types of organizations, even if there are certain things about them you may not agree with. Overall they do a good job and the things the MDF may accomplish is much better than the alternative, which would be nothing at all. For those with the cash another good organization is the Nature Conservancy.
 
Sheepeater-

Good luck with that new chapter. We did the same thing 5 years ago, northern Front Range, and it's now a big chapter with its own projects and excellent meetings/banquets. Now I'm a lifer living west of Denver (which now has a great Chapter too), and though I don't have near as much time for the MDF, I don't regret any of the hard work a few years back. It's the best organization for conservation out there. You'll not only be helping deer, but you'll make friends with many folks who have the same strong interests in wildlife that you do.

Doug
 
I've been a member for several years. I live in NC so no chapters here. The magazine has improved 10 fold and it's a way to keep up with what's going on.
 
I agree with DougW, it's a good organization to belong to. Rocky Mountain Elk foundation has done great things for elk, and I'm glad to see a solid mule deer organization doing the same things. I've been in for two years and see no end in sight for me.
Join! they'll put your money toward mule deer and you'll get a good magazine to boot.


The Christian
 
Not a member but have gone a few rounds with the MDF and its board over the years. You should make sure you know what you want from the MDF, they will make sure you know what they want from you ? green dean! I think if you're into having another banquette, or a reason to get people together who like deer, than it might work for you. The Bozeman area has enough people and by far enough money to support a chapter.

If you're into local wildlife projects that help mule deer, you could likely do better on your own. The MDF just makes it easy to organize, have a banquette, and then send them your money.

I never will be a member as long as conservation is second to raising money. There are so many more things that can be done without throwing our hunting heritage out the window. That may sounds strange to some. You might even say, how can you conserve without money? Let's just say money spent in the manner marks the beginning of the end of our traditional hunting heritage. I believe the MDF is out in front way out in front on this matter. To the point that they now are trying to sell you more Utah tags, and I would argue just for the money.

Do your homework, talk to a few board members, see what kind of people you're getting involved with and make sure you know what you want from a club. If it all fits, then jump in.

Take care,
 
Thanks to all you that are members and to you who have helped out and will continue to help out.

The MDF is not a perfect group, and I have yet to find one. What MDF is is a group that is putting money on the ground and is making a diffrence for Mule Deer, Blacktail deer and their habitat.

Conservation is something that very few understand fully. It is a balance between biology, politics and perception. Biology is what MDF puts 1st but remember politicians make rules and perception is reality. You can not run this buisness with out understanding all 3 of these things.

MDF has made great strides the last year or two and we will continue to do so. Your dollars and time will not be wasted or forgotten, that much I can promise.

As MDF roles forward I hope all of you will look into supporting the group that works for wildlife.

Thanks again for your intrest and I hope someday to meet you all.

Tony Abbott
General Manager
Mule Deer Foundation
[email protected]
 
I support The Mule Deer Foundation.The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.The Wenatchee Sportsman's Club and The Washington State Bowhunter's!!!We ALL need to do our part!!!Good Luck
 
I have to agree with Tfinalshot. I was a member for a few years. I felt that it was all about the banquet and the all mighty dollar. Very little was done by the MDF in my area and the local club is a good 'ol boy group as far as actually gettin out and doing some hands on work. The only time you hear from them is banquet time and maybe through the news letter that they held a work project 2 months before the letter came out.

-Lowedog
 
"Conservation is something that very few understand fully. It is a balance between biology, politics and perception. Biology is what MDF puts 1st but remember politicians make rules and perception is reality. You can not run this business with out understanding all 3 of these things." -

Tony, you're a master of the obvious! Thanks of enlightening us.

How come you never discuss the impacts that your organization is having on our traditional hunting heritage? You seem to overlook that "small" issue. You never discuss that fact that you are leading the drive to price us out of hunting mature deer. The MDF is driving the erosion of mule deer opportunities to the middle class, not mule deer habitat and conservation or them.

Sure, you can say the MDF is improving mule deer habitat but at what cost and for who? I'd like the MDF to put a price on the elimination of public access to public resources. How much is that dear really worth?

I like to know there are mule deer growing old, and I believe that if you protect mule deer habitat than you create positive externalities. However, if only the rich can utilize the resources you are helping to create a fascist state.

Please tell us how the MDF can justify itself knowing full well that it's leading to the destruction of open access to public resources.

Thanks,
 
TFinal

You might be the worst cancer that Mule Deer has seen. You have never said anything positive that I have ever seen. All you do is #####. Why don't you enlighten us and tell us what you have done or what you are doing for Mule Deer?

You are a negative person and every post shows that. Before you start talking bad about people like Tony Abbott why don't you try to get to know them. You might actually learn something.

You are a discrace to wildlife and all those that are trying to make it better. Go away.

Todd
 
All right you naysayers lets here some facts and figures. And then I would like to know what you personally and financely have done to better mule deer other than buying your tags.
 
Cutthroat-Dont be brokebacking me!!! LOL. Just in case your curious, the sheepeaters were the Native Tribes that lived in and around Yellowstone National Park, thought to be early ancestors to the shosone, primarily ate CUTTHROATS, bighorn sheep and muledeer. Lots of Archeology in the area, and land marks named after them, they made some sick bows out of the horn of sheep.
I hear some positives and Negatives to the MDF. I think it is like anything. It is what the members make of it, I know alot of guys that are negative probably had a chance to make it a better organization rather than sit on a soapbox and complain. I am personally viewing it as a platform to make things a little better, seems to me it cant hurt, I feel that most of us here on this sight are a little elite and do fall out of the general hunting heritage way of thinking, after all it is a trophy hunting sight called Monster Muleys, I have never and will never make any appologies for being a "trophy" hunter. And that is not a cheap way to go about hunting.


hunterrunningfrombearlgclr5ju.gif
 
Yea, that's it Runner, you are one sharp guy. By your reply you'd think I poked you in the eye with an ice pick. Sounds to me like maybe you missed your therapy appointment; relax, take a deep breath, and don't drink the coolaid.

I'm not talking bad about Mr. Abbot. To this day, I can't get answers; all I get is speculative defensive propaganda and defamation from fascists like you. As per my conservation efforts, what do you want me to do post my resume every time I ask a question or make a remark? This is an open forum, so long as you follow the rules, it's about posting your thoughts and ideas, not about telling other people how to think or, in your case, to stay away ? I'm sure they have moderators for that.

Why don't you do your homework before you make more of a fool of yourself than you just did? My record speaks for itself. I'm sure you have heard of Google ? give it a try! You sound just like Mr. Abbot. Very confrontational, and extremely defensive, try not to miss your next session, breath.

I don't need to know Tony Abbot personally, or spend a weekend at the beach or in the hills with him, or even meet him to understand and make critical observations of the MDF. I'm sure you, and other's think he's a great guy, and for all I know I'd buy him a beer in a local tav before I'd say a bad thing about him... But just because he's a good guy does not mean I have to like the MDF, its programs, or its style. I don't know GW, and I don't need to in order to have an opinion of his policies, his words, like Mr. Abbots, speak volumes.

We obviously have differing opinions but feel free to stay on this site, I don't think I need to try to run you off, you'll do a good job of that on your own, just keep posting.
 
Mr. Bynum

Glad to meet you. Some nice pictures. I guess that qualifies you to be an expert. Just because you have an opinion of MDF or Mr. Abbott does not mean you are right about either.

I see what they are doing for wildlife. And now I know what you do for widlife, you take pictures and complain about other people that are trying to do something for wildlife if it does not meet your standards.

Have you ever spoken with Tony? This is a simple question I would like a staright answer to. And if you have, how did it go? This is another simple question I would like an answer to.

You mention how defensive some get well take a look at every post you make, they are all either offensive or defensive, and most of the time you are just offensive. I do not recall Mr. Abbott refering to you yet you use his name freely like you know if personally. I guess that is the right most democrats feel they have. You are a democrate right? Cause if you are a republican do us all a favor and switch.

Your opinions are about as worthless as a fly on a turd. They stink and nobody wants them.

Todd
 
Runner,

You couldnt be more wrong. THere are many people who agree with the opinions of Tfinalshot. FInalshot is a good guy and I for one respect his opinions and appreciate hearing other points of views on topics such as this. I personally am sick of all the sheep that follow these "conservation groups", just because of the name attached to it. Its good to do your homework and learn everything possible about a group before you decide to give your hard earned greenbacks to them.

I have yet to hear Mr. Bynum say anything negative towards Mr. Abbott. He obviously is not a fan of some of the current policies and procedured that MDF is using to obtain monies for "conservation". I too am not a fan of all the tags they are taking away from Joe Hunter for their Banquets ,etc. I too think that many of these groups are going to be detremental to the hunting opportunities to those who cant "pay to play".....myself included. I work hard, but unforutnately I will never be able to pay the high prices that these groups are placing on quality trophy hunts.

I currently do not contribute financially to any of the groups. My reasons are simple....my priorities are my family first, then hunting...and my paycheck is spread thin enough as it is. However, I am more than happy to help with any projects that need my help. I try to attend RAC's when I can, and I kill a few coyotes a year. It may not seem much to you, but I feel Im contributing, so I guess that means Ive earned the right to share my opinon on this topic as well. :)

So before you start ripping on someone and telling them that there opinons are worthless and no one wants to hear them....remember that you speak for yourself and not for everyone on this board.

If you and the rest of the "sheep" dont understand the points we are trying to bring up, let me put it in simpler terms.......... BAAAAAAA! BAAAAAA! BAAAAAA! Did you get that!??! :)

TUFF
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-06 AT 08:20AM (MST)[p]

This thread's in the ditch, it's not even on topic any more and I'll take some of the credit for that, sorry. Mr. Runner, you did not look hard enough on you search or you would have found a lot more, like my appointment by interior secretary Gale Norton (a republican conservative). How come if my views are so terrible, the current Bush administration decided to appoint me to a natural recourse council? Hum, by your logic this must mean either they don't know what they are doing, or I'm the idiot you think I am in either case your wrong.

I never have spoken directly to Mr. Abbot, but I feel like I know him from all the back and forth we've had on this site. This is very interesting, because by your logic you and I would need to talk before you could come to a conclusion about me. Obviously, you have not followed your own advice in this regard. Either you disagree with my logic, or you think I'm an idiot, in either case you're wrong again.

By the way, you're a Bush supporter, that's okay, I support some of his policies, but have you ever spoke to him directly? Did you ever speak directly to President Clinton? How about God, are you a religious man? I've never have spoken directly to God (not saying you have not) but I pay attention to his words.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-06 AT 10:13AM (MST)[p]I agree the post is not what it started out to be. Mr. Bynum and myself exchanged a few post. I do not know him personally as he does not I. He may or may not be a quality individual. I will not form that opinion until I have enough facts and since I dout we will ever meet then any opinion I form would be based on half truths and not enough information. I guess he already has formend his opinion of me based on a couple posts which is his right no matter how wrong he may be.


I am simply trying to steer the MDF in a positive direction. Along the way people will sling mud and others will follow. It is quit offensive to refer to members of these orginazations as sheep. Just because they believe in a cause does not make them sheep. And I am alot of things but a sheep herder I am not.

As far as MDF goes we are making progress in preserving Mule Deer and their habitat. That is our mission and we will stay that course. Any of you who would like to help the MDF please let me know and I will personally contact you.

Thanks

Tony Abbott
General Manager
Mule Deer Foundation
 
Tony,

Let me clarify.....not ALL members of these organizations are sheep. The ones I would consider "sheep", are those that simply join because the group has Mule Deer or Elk in the title. They are those that dont take the time to research the poicies and procedures for themselves, and blindly follow the words of those who run these organizations. There are those who have done the research, and support what these groups are doing, and to those people....I respect their opinions and their commitment to these groups. They may differ somewhat to mine, but nonetheless, I respect them.

I am very open minded, and am willing to donate where and to whom I think will best help our deer herds. I think that the whole conservation tags debacle, is what has really turned me off to many of the current "conservation groups".

Mr. Abott, I appreciate what you do for our deer herds, from what I hear, you work hard...and I appreciate that. We need more people to fight for our deer and elk....i just wish that the Average Joe didnt have to lose precious hunting opportunities to be able to help the animals we all love to hunt.

SCOTT
 
"I guess he [tfinalshot] already has formend his opinion of me based on a couple posts which is his right no matter how wrong he may be."

The only opinion I have of Mr. Abbot is based on his history with the MDF. I always said he might be a good guy, but I can't be sure of that. I can tell you that he won't openly discuss your issues unless he's sure of your intentions.

Mr. Abbot is the ?worker-bee? for the MDF, the board sets the policies and makes the real decisions, some or most of which might be Mr. Abbots, so he cant be blamed for all the success just has he cant be responsible for all the failures. In any event, I don't know if Mr. Abbot's a good or bad guy. In truth, it really does not matter what I think of him anyway, it's the resource and the future of our hunting rights and privileged that concerns me.

I do not know why he and others continue to ignore my issue and my requests for information. I'll ask again, I'd like to know more about the hunting ethics/heritage issues that I continuously raise but which never get any play by the MDF, or few other's for that matter. In the end I see it like this;

Mr. Abbot and I clearly have a voice, a constituency, and an audience. I can continue to speak my mind and express my beliefs, no matter how wrong some of you may think they are. On the other hand, you can use this form, and my interest in the subject matter as a vehicle for educating me and others about your views. Please explain why you believe the MDF, and others like them, are justified in leading the way toward the destruction of our historical hunting heritage. Why and how are they justified in expanding access to public land and public resources only to the wealthy who can afford to pay, while the rest of us get to sit back and pray for that chance? That's about as American as the baguette. I would not have objections if this was about high fence, private property but it's not, it's about the exploitation of a very valuable public resource who's benefits go to a very few individuals.

Thanks for your time,
 
It is your right to your opinion. And if I may quote you I believe it was this "Please explain why you believe the MDF, and others like them, are justified in leading the way toward the destruction of our historical hunting heritage".

This is where you and I differ. If I am understanding, you believe that only the rich benefit from the sale of these high dollar permits. Am I correct in this way of thinking?

If so let me try to explain it. In Utah there is about 100,000 deer permts availiable every year. Of the 100,000 approximatly 80 go to conservation groups to auction to the highest bidder. Those 80 permits will generate about $400,000 to $500,000 this year. 90% of these funds have to be spent in Utah on projects that are approved by the groups and the DWR. These are habitat projects, water projects, fencing projects, under and over pass projects, predation and education.

In other words these 80 permits turn into nearly $500,000 that will be spent to benefit everyone that hunts, or watches or takes pictures of wildlife.

If these 80 tags were given away in the drawing to "joe hunter" they would generate about $5,000 which all of it would go to the Utah fish and game budget to be spent how they see fit.

How is this leading to the destruction of our historical hunting heritage?

How is taking a few tags and maximizing our dollars for wildlife bad? How can anyone not see that these dollars are crucial to our wildlifes future?

Mr. Bynum I am having a hard time understanding your point of few, or the point of view of those that think "joe hunter" is getting the wrong end of the stick.

If you would like I can list all the projects that these dollars do that benefit all sportsman and nature watchers and picture takers. I would also be happy to buy you a membership to MDF so you can get our publication every 2 months and see what it is we are doing with our members dollars.

And if you are so inclined I would be happy to visit with you by phone or in person if you really want to understand where the MDF is going and what we are doing.

And last but certainly not least, if there are not groups like MDF fighting for public access and predator control and habitat improvment then all of hunting will eventually be behind a fence and on private property and you will have to make alot more money then I do to hunt there.

Tony Abbott
 
While on the subject of public access...and public lands.

Can you answer what the MDF's stance is on the Bush Administrations latest brain-child of selling off public lands to pay down the national debt and fund schools?

I would assume that a conservation organization like the MDF would be spending my money to lobby against hair-brain schemes like that?

That is the kind of stuff that will do nothing but harm our hunting heritage.

Thanks in advance.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-06 AT 06:43PM (MST)[p]Mr. Abbott, I am no expert on this issue, but have a couple questions.

You mentioned there are 100,000 deer permits available in Utah every year and only 80 are up for auction. Most of the 100,000 are general tags. How many of the 80 tags are general only?

$400-500K is a heck of a lot of money and good things can be done with it. Wouldn't the same amount of money be created by raising tag price by $4-5?
 
I have been a member for 3 or 4 years. I also try to donate a few extra dollars each year. I joined because I wanted to do something to help protect the sport of hunting and to protect the habitat. I am also a RMEF member and a NRA life member. I also donate to the Wyoming Access Yes program. Basically, I try to support programs that work to ensure the future of hunting.

Tim
Searchin' for a 4 X 4
 
mtmiller

Yes of the 100,000 most are general seaseon tags. So to answer your question 40 of the 80 auction tags are general season permits. So that leaves about 40 limited entry permits which in all do respect raise the vast majority of the $500k.

Now since we are breaking it down that way here it goes. 40 general tags, 32 which are resident tags at $40= $1,280. 8 non resident tags at about $250= $2,000 plus the amount that the voucher sales for which is about $100 a piece=$4,000. so those 40 permits generate about $7,280 of which $3,280 goes to salary.

The thing that most do not understand is that increasing the license fee does nothing for wildlife. license money is spent on salaries and trucks and non game species and party's and field trips. That is why license fee's won't work.

The auction tags are earmarked for huntable wildlife and its habitat. There is the big difference between the 2.

I just spent several weeks helping the UDWR get 2.2 million dollars from the general fund for raises so they did not have to raise license fees. This is what sportsman groups do for the everyday guy.

So are you still saying that 80 permits 40 of which are general season are to much for conservation groups to get when we turn those into 500k?

I really do not think most people really understand the role these permits play. Statisticaly the 40 general permits that are auctioned only represents less the 1/10th of 1%. And the 40 limited entry deer tags that are auctioned equals about 5% of the total 932 limited entry deer permits. And none of these numbers include the 241 permits availiable to the public through the cwmu program.

This is why I have a hard time understanding why people are mad that a small handful of guys spend 500k on 40 limited entry deer tags. Can you explain to me why? Statistically these tags do not affect your draw odds by more then 5%, and I would argue that all of our draw odds are better with these tags because that 500k goes back into the resource to grow more deer, and preserve more habitat. The money is not wasted.

I hope this clears some stuff up for you.

tony
 
Thank you for your response.

I think your question to me was -- So are you still saying that 80 permits 40 of which are general season are to much for conservation groups to get when we turn those into 500k?

My answer, maybe yes, maybe no. I know, not a good answer.

In my opinion, pimping hunting tags is not what I would consider being the best avenue to raise $$ for habitat. I am worried that 40 premium tags equals nearly $400K and the attitude of what if we raise it to 100 premium tags? Maybe a million?

At what point have we crossed the threshold where we have lost our traditional hunting heritage? In my opinion, it may be happening now and I do think 5% of all premium tags is too many, but hey, that's just me.

Once again, thanks for your response. I know you have a job to do and if you do see any short comings of your organization you are not going to put it on a message board.
 
I wanted to get more involved in wildlife, so I joined SFW. I received a confirmation email with a promise to receive issues of the magazine "sportsmans voice". I have received nothing. I haven't been notified of any meetings or banquets. I'm kind of feeling a little ripped off. As for MDF, I have no experience.

Mike
 
Tony,
In my opinion, many people are not that concerned with a few tags. But the numbers you are posting is misleading those who read them. If MDF were only auctioning Mule Deer tags then you can use those numbers, but MDF is auctioning many different species. The correct number to use in these discussions is 384 permits from Utah. MDF received 113 of these permits, the most of any Org. Those numbers make people nervous. NOW, throw in the extra 200 permits next year, coupled with the increases of Elk tags this year and 2007 could see OVER 650 tags going to Conservation Groups. That is over 6,000 tags in the next 10 years.....

Many people feel that there could be corruption in the process, who got paid what to do what? Some people get the 10% of funds which their Orgs receive to cover OH, that could be $50,000-80,000 for 3 months of work. Some people get paid above market value to perform tasks on these conservation projects. It is easy to say "We spent $50,000 of project X." Well, how was that $50,000 spent? $1,000 for seed, $49,000 for a guy to spread it one weekend?

So, How was shed hunting two Thursdays ago?
 
I have been a member for a few years now and I see the benifits, READ THE PUBLICATION it will tell you where each amd every dollar is spent, and as far as the tags go, so what if I dont draw the big tag because out of the 50 available maybe 2-3 were auctioned off. It helps the OVERALL DEER HERDS throughout the states. It is not about the big bucks (yah they draw attention) but are not the motivation for these efforts.
I for one will continue to support the MDF not only financially but will also volunteer my efforts to better habitat.
Justin Foster
 
I USED TO BE!
I just never saw the impact of what was claimed being done!
DINNERS are just a reason to get drunk be the looks of most of them!
I will even say I feel the drawings are rigged! I seen enough of the Atwoods and Smiths cleaning up on many thousands of dollars of stuff and Rifles to never believe the drawing fair!
rackmaster
 
I was a member of the MDF once upon a time. I stopped because of the following.

1. The impactt of the organization was not made known to me. I had not idea of what they were doing with my money. They needed a section in their magazine to let us know what was going on.

2. The magazine sucked. Pattern a magazine after the NRA "American Hunter" and you will get more people to sign up. Make it like Eastmans magazine and you will get many many more to sign up.

Good luck drumming up interest in an organization that no one knows about.

"One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-06 AT 09:17AM (MST)[p]I'd be interested in what Mr Abbott and the MDF's response to BuzzH (post #27).

Lee
 
I personally on behalf of MDF have spoken with Legislators on the very issue of public lands.

And for the record MDF supports the cause to keep open space and public access. In other words, we want no selling off of public lands.

Thanks for the intrest.

tony
 
As I said above I have been a member of the MDF for several years but just recently did not pay my membership dues because of financial reasons (well, mostly for that reason but also I suppose I do have my doubts as to whether I am wasting my money.) If I had more extra money I would pay the $35 a year or whatever it is just to receive the magazine and hope that my small contribution is benefitting mule deer and the habitat they live in. I have to say I have been disappointed with the MDF as I was hoping to volunteer my time to help out with whatever habitat improvement projects they were doing in my state. I am not interested in attending banquets, especially with what I've read lately on here about how they cater only to the very wealthy individuals. The MDF does seem to be all about money. The only volunteers they seem to need are for working the banquets, and as I said I have no interest in that. So does anybody know of any way to get involved in the actual on-the-ground habitat improvement work, in the state of Washington?
 
No kidding, what a surprise; Tony, without the public lands and wild mule deer there would be no need for the MDF! Public lands are your only hope, only the rest of your philosophy runs against the public resource philosophy. You cant have it both ways.
 
Not a problem. I am happy to address people like yourself that want to know the facts about MDF, and the direction it is heading.

tony
 
Tony,

Is it a fact that you pocketed $15k (or close to that) off of the sale of the state wide mule deer tag? Check yes or no.;-)
 

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