260 bull vs spike bull

C

coyoteslayer

Active Member
Messages
347
Here is a question for everyone. Would you rather be able to hunt spikes every year, and then have one or two shots at a 340+ bull in your life, or would you rather hunt 260-300 bulls every 4-5 years? Or even ever 2-3 years.

For me, there is really no difference between hunting/shooting a spike than a 260 bull. I am not going to mount either one, and they both taste pretty much the same. Personally, I would rather have the chance at a big bull once or twice in my lifetime.
 
I would rather hunt the 260-300 inch bulls more because there will always be a few bigger bulls out there to be killed. It is like deer several people seem to kill a 200" on the general hunt and they get to hunt that area every year and not wait 20 years to hunt the henry's once.

alpinebowman

>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->
 
>I would rather hunt the 260-300
>inch bulls more because there
>will always be a few
>bigger bulls out there to
>be killed. It is like
>deer several people seem to
>kill a 200" on the
>general hunt and they get
>to hunt that area every
>year and not wait 20
>years to hunt the henry's
>once.
>
>alpinebowman
>

+1 I would rather hunt a a three year old bull then a spike. If i hunted hard enough I might see something better.

90% of Utah hunters cant tell the difference in a 300 bull and a 350 bull unless they were standing side by side! I cant tell you how many guys I hear im going to kill a 400"er I just drew a " " tag and then they get home with a nice looking bull but it is a 100" lower in score. they are happy as can be and ask me what do you think it would score. I say if you are happy with it don't put a tape on it!!

4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg

Nets are for fish!!
 
I guess you may have the potential to run on to a bigger bull, and it may happen, but in a lot of colorado units, 90% of the hunters cannot find a 300 class bull. I can understand how the hope of finding a bigger bull would be nice, but realistically it usually doesn't happen. I guess I am spoiled, because I have 13 bonus points for Colorado, and I have little desire to go hunt a 300-320 class bull at best. Those types of bulls don't give me any more thrill than a spike does at the moment. I have killed 3-4 spikes and 3-4 280 class bulls. I had one of the best tags in Az a few years ago. I could have shot those types of bulls everyday, but the thought of bringing home that 360+ bull is what I wanted. I passed a 280 bull the last day. For me the thrill of the hunt is what I enjoy the most not the shot.

I know Utah catches a lot of crap for having a lot of guys out on these limited entry hunts, but the year I watched my mom shoot a 387 bull was as good as it gets. Usually I can tag along on a big bull hunt once every 4-5 years, and that is as good as me being able to hunt. There is no right or wrong answer to this question, just what a hunter's needs and desires are.
 
I am with you coyoteslayer, I get no more thrill in shooting a raghorn bull then I do in shooting a spike or a cow. I am also not a big fan of everyone who draws needs to kill a 350 bull mentality. I think Utah is on the right track and headed in the right direction, more opourtunity through archery tags is the way to go, lower the number of people with points and give the hunters who want to wait 15-20 years the chance to kill a great bull.

If you want to shoot raghorns every year Idaho and Colorado have tons of opourtunity ecspecially for archers.
 
I'd rather hunt the 260 to 300 bull evey few years than a spike every year. There's always that hope of finding something bigger and on the spike hunts you might find something bigger and not be able to shoot it.
 
Coyote,

I feel much like you. Hunting big bulls is a lot of fun. Not too interested in a 280-300 bull.
However, There is a large number of hunters as Alpine and Sw note who would be thrilled with a 280-300 class bull. Lots of hunters haven't shot a 6 point bull.

Why should a kid or others who would be thrilled to shoot a 280-300 class bull wait 20-30 years to do it?

Why not provide 6-8 units 3-4 yr old bulls to accomplish this goal. Maybe they could draw it 3-4 times in their lives. The north Cache unit has been a 3-4 yr old unit for years. They still kill a few 350-380+ plus bulls and a fair opportunity at 300 class bulls.

Now the current changes are to have them 4-5 yr old units, as the worst unit as far as age class.

Again, if their are many who would be happy with a 300 class bull why not manage some units for them? Why make people wait for 10-20 years depending on the unit?
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-25-10 AT 03:11PM (MST)[p]A question for those that know, do they kill many or any 320 plus bulls on the open bull units now?? I only live around the Zions unit, and I know they kill a few off there, but that is because it is all or mostly private. It seems like everyone for it thinks they have a chance at a bigger bull, and granted they do, but the odds are slim very slim I think. Not sure let me know please.

This spike we killed this year is awesome eating. As good a meat as I have ever had.
 
I don't mind having a few units where they give more tags, especially on real big units with lots of elk. However, in my mind they can't make to many of them or the odds for these other units are going to get worse and worse. I love going out in the summer and seeing 350+ bulls. Its an awesome sight just to see and video. You can enjoy seeing the bulls without actually shooting one. Yes I hope to be shooting one this year, but when I don't have a tag, calling them in, videoing them and watching them is a lot of fun, and better than killing a 260 raghorn bull. I would rather video a 380 bull than shoot a 280 bull.
 
Nope not to many, I have never hunted it but know people who have and have read posts on here from people who have hunted it, if you shoot a 250+ bull on an anybull you are in the top couple %.

Heres an idea why not change those units to a draw only unit elliminate spike hunting, but give a generous number of permits for each weapon and see if you can manage a unit for 2-3 year old bulls. Then those who would want the opourtunity every few years to chase those class bulls could.
 
"I don't mind having a few units where they give more tags, especially on real big units with lots of elk. However, in my mind they can't make to many of them or the odds for these other units are going to get worse and worse."

Actually, IMHO, the odds would IMPROVE for the other limited entry units. Right now everyone is forced to play the waiting game, and if you're going to play the game you just as well go for the better permits.

2+ years ago I and several others pushed a plan called I400, we wanted (still do) to take 5 units and manage them as Hunt100 mentioned. We even met with the SFW Board of Directors and got positive feedback from them on it. Yet, when the new EMP was drafted SFW was as silent as a mouse on any part of it, instead they pushed for harvest age INCREASES on 90+% of the units of 1 1/2 years.

Giving the hunters that would LOVE the chance to harvest a 300" bull would improve the odds for those wanting to wait 1-2 times in their lifetime. We can/should manage several units with different weapon permit allotments, lower or NO age objectives, and different season dates. I am NOT suggesting doing that to all the units, let the 'trophy' hunters have their 'big bull' playgrounds. But, forcing ALL elk hunters to either hunt extremely low percentage hunts such as spike only and any-bull, or waiting up to 30 years to draw a limited entry permit is nonsensical and not warranted.
 
I have shot my share of branch antlered bulls and I would love to shoot a bunch more. I will take a 260 bull any day over a spike.
 
>never met anyone who wants to
>shoot a spike.!!!!

you have probably seen one you just didn't know it. ill give you a hint they used to ride the short buss in school.


4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg

Nets are for fish!!
 
I agree with Hoytme on this one. Hopefully some day we can try a few units to provide more opportunity, manage for younger bulls, get more people a chance to kill a six point bull, even if it's small.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-26-10 AT 02:50PM (MST)[p]The real question here is Opportunity (hunt every year) or Quality (hunt biggin's every 5-10 years). I guess I kind of like the best of both worlds as long as I can afford it. I apply in AZ as a resident hoping to get a great tag every 5 -7 years. I apply for an under subscribed hunt in Colorado every year so I get to be in the mountains "and" try to fill the freezer. A raghorn is the best to be expected there.

By the way, passing on a 280 bull elk the last day of the season on a hard to draw AZ tag is either silly or to be admired. I for one admire your conviction and the guy that eventually ended up with that bull as a 300+ probably thanks you.

My take on the question.
264
 
I personally won't shot a spike or a 'rag horn', but I won't demand everyone have the same standard(s) as I do. I have helped but over 200 bull elk on the ground over the years, and the excitement from the hunter was just as high, some times higher, in the 'eastern' hunters who put a 250" bull on the ground in southern Colorado as the 'trophy' hunter who put a 400" bull on the ground. The first time I was on the Outdoor Channel many years ago the hunter was from Georgia, and he killed a 230" bull with a muzzle loader at 15 yards. They had to blip his words after the bull hit the ground 70 yards out because he was so excited. He had the bull mounted, and he has killed animals all over the world and he says that is his favorite because of the hunt itself. The day before he killed his 'trophy' he had a cow walk up and nuzzle him on the ear, and the bull he killed almost stepped on him as it came from 800 yards away on a dead trot. He had to let the bull step OVER him and then rise and turn and pull the trigger after I stopped the bull with a chirp. I would have never shot that bull, but I'll be damned if I will say he shouldn't have.

Let those who have to kill 350+" bulls have their piece of the pie, let those who like the challenge of any-bull areas with very few mature bulls but lots of country to hunt have their piece of the pie, and let those happy to hunt 250-330 class bulls have theirs as well. We do NOT need to raise harvest age objectives on 90+% of the units to do this, all we need to do is be willing to let the middle group of hunters have their piece of the pie.
 
I grew tired of hunting spikes over a decade ago,,,,,,,
Killed my first spike elk in 1977, But I will probably never hunt spikes again in my life.
Given the chance to harvest a 280 bull with my bow,,I'd do it.

But there's nothing like hunting big stinky's when there screaming. I've been lucky and seen a lot of it done over the years.

4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-26-10 AT 03:43PM (MST)[p]Not to sound missing the point of your thread-----

But.............

Do we not already have all 3 of the options you are posting about available to Utah elk hunters?

General 'Any Bull' units.....

Spike units.....

LE big bull opportunity units when drawn.....

Am I missing something here?

Have a safe wknd all,

Robb
 
Yes, we do have great LE entry hunting and spike hunting that meets those two needs. But the open bull units in Utah are close as they get to a joke...Don't get me wrong, I support the LE program and I like the spike program as well, but the open bull units need to be expanded or worked on. I have hunted Colorado and killed 280 bulls before, I loved it and will go back. The amount of elk we saw made it almost as good as a Utah LE hunt. Sure, they were smaller bulls, but we see almost as many bulls as on a LE hunt.

That being said, I have killed some 280+ bulls in Utah on general bull public ground hunts, but they are few and far between them. It wouldn't take too many changes and management objectives to make some areas (Unitas) into 260+ open bull units. I like the four point or better rule, but for some reason, Utah doesn't...
 
Providing more archarey tags on helps those that hunt with archarey here is an example
Bookcliffs road
Rifle 15pts to guarntee a tag tottal apps 1377 apps
Muzzy 10pts this year to gurantee a tag 163 apps
Archery 6pt this year 125 apps


San juan
rifle 16pts you have a chance 1577apps
muzzy 15pt you have a chance309apps
archarey 12pts gurantee 230 apps

Guys come on if people really wanted to hunt with a bow they would and they dont. the numbers do not lie you can try to lobby to get more tags for yourself but lobbing for more archrey tags is only for you benifit. the majority of hunters would rather hunt with a gun plain and simple its like this on every hunt every unit every state etc etc . I am not against bow guys but your thinking is not correct. I think they should eleminate all cow hunts charge a little bit more for your tag and increase the herds more elk more bulls more oppurtunity. If any arechey guys disagree with these numbers or can articulete how more archrey tags will increase oppurtunity for everyone than please feel free to do so i just can not see it.
thanks
 
I cant tell you how many archers I know that put in for rifle because its a once in a lifetime opourtunity, I was one! I took a rifle tag because the odds of drawing another tag are so bad, increase archery tags and make it so a guy has a legitimate chance a few times in a lifetime and people will put switch and put in for them.
 
>Guys come on if people really
>wanted to hunt with a
>bow they would and they
>dont. the numbers do not
>lie you can try to
>lobby to get more tags
>for yourself but lobbing for
>more archrey tags is only
>for you benifit.

this statement is absolute Bull crap! It also show you how biased and uneducated you truly are. How come in Arizona they still kill 400" bulls? How come they don't have spike hunts? How come in Arizona they give out just as many elk tags as Utah with half the elk?

> the majority
>of hunters would rather hunt
>with a gun plain and
>simple


when it takes you just as long to draw an archery tag as it does to draw a rifle tag why would you blow your once in a life time tag on a bow with 30% odds? why would you blow your once in a life time chance at a bull wear you restric yourself to a 40 yard shot? If they got rid of the gay spike hunt you could give our dump loads of archery tags at big bulls. I garantee you would see a lot more people putting in for archery then you do now.

>I am not against bow guys
>but your thinking is not
>correct.

you are against bow guy and your statmenst above prove you are.

I think they should
>eleminate all cow hunts charge
>a little bit more for
>your tag and increase the
>herds more elk more bulls
>more oppurtunity.

you cant get rid of the cow tags because the herds are at carring capacity. By law the herds cant get any larger right now. so you are forced by law to kill some of the cows. simple math if you have a grade school education.

If any arechey
>guys disagree with these numbers
>or can articulete how more
>archrey tags will increase oppurtunity
>for everyone than please feel
>free to do so i
>just can not see it.
>
>thanks

I do disagree with your statements. I personally think they show how little you know about archery as a way to manage hunters opportunity while still maintain quality. To back up my facts all you have to do is look at the Wasatch front as a model of complete and utter success. long seasons! Rut hunts! No winter range or habitat improvements BS! No expo tags! No auction tags! Henry quality bucks and believe it or not it is starting to get Monster bulls as well! You can kill buck/bull cow/doe O Did I say over the counter $35 dollar tags!

Now I believe some where in the middle of no rifle tags and loads of bow tags is a happy medium. A medium where any guy can choose to pick up a bow and hunt more often or pick up a rifle and actually kill what he is hunting. Notice I did not say archery guy or rifle guy. To me a hunter is a hunter plane and simple the weapon he chooses doesn't matter. Face it if we all could hunt with an over the counter rifle tag during the rue we all would.

4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg

Nets are for fish!!
 
Here is how all weapon types can win: Instead of raising harvest age objectives by ONE AND ONE HALF years, keep the lower two age objective groups at the same objectives they currently are or only raise them by ONE YEAR. At the same time, instead of allotting permits by weapon choice 60/25/15 (rifle/archery/muzzy), make it 50/30/20. With the harvest ages being at more reasonable objectives the rifle hunters would lose ZERO permits even with the lowering of the percentage allotted to them because the increase in archery/muzzy permits would allow the age objectives to still be meet/exceeded and allow for a few hundred permits each year. This will help the rifle hunters in many ways: 1)the biggest is that they wouldn't see a cut of permit numbers and even possibly a slight increase in permit numbers 2)Many of those applying for rifle permits will migrate BACK to primitive weapon pools because of the improved permit numbers making obtaining a permit NOT a once-in-a-lifetime permit any longer. I know dozens of archers and smoke pole hunters who apply for rifle permits because they don't want to burn their points on a OIL permit for an archery hunt that is mostly in August some years and has a 33% success rate instead of hunting the middle of September and enjoying a 80+% success rate.
 
Gotta agree with an above post: archery hunts in Utah are not once-in-a-lifetime. So that argument about archers not putting in for archery tags because of success rates is false. They don't put in for archery tags because they are not archers, they are just hunters who want to kill a big bull. Most archery hunts are 1 in 1 to 1 in 8 odds. That means a guy could archery hunt Utah limited entry elk every 6-12 years. Leave the tag allocations alone.
 
I would take the chance of a 260 bull every few years over a chance at a spike every year.

Here is what a 268 inch bull looks like.

7778field_elk_2.jpg
 
sw buck master

You still did not articulate why giving out more archery tags would increase oppurtunity for the vast majority i agree the wasatch is amazing and it is agreat hunt for those that choose to hunt with a bow. but the facts are facts most hunters still choose to hunt with a rife even though there odds of drawing a tag with a bow are vastley better.and hunting with muzzy is a in between step. people still choose to hunt with a rifle. even if you decrease the rifle tags and give out twice as man bow tags i dont think you would see that many hunters switch their wepon choice. sw you said that their is a happy medium wwll than they system in plcae works you can draw a sj archrey tag every 12 years where as rifle you will get one shot. Bookcliffs every 6yrs thats pretty dang good odds if you ask me.So for it to provide more opputunity for all how are you going to get hunters to switch from bow to rifle. I personly would do this give the muzzy guys the first part of the rut archery the middle and rifle the end imo that would be the best by putting the rifle hunt toward the end you could increase tags by lowering success. say muzzy sept 11th-18th archrey 20-30th rifle oct 7-14th
 
RE: sw buck master

on the previous post i put rifle to bow i need to correct that from bow to rifle.
 
RE: sw buck master

tstewy, when you push most hunters to the rifle hunt, most hunters will apply for rifle tags. What weapon has the best season dates, the highest success rates, and the best odds for killing a big bull? If any/all of these factors were altered a little bit, SOME hunters would migrate to the other weapon choices. Change the season dates around, making muzzy/archery more attractive, and you will see SOME hunters migrate to those weapon hunts leading to fewer hunters in the rifle pool. Lower the success rates of the rifle hunt by moving the hunt out of September on SOME units and MORE hunters will migrate over to the muzzy/archery seasons. Utah is a 'rifle' state because the management policies in place make most hunters be rifle hunters. I know, most hunters will be rifle hunters no matter what, but a smaller percentage of them will be if hunters are given incentive to pick up a smoke pole or a bow. This, and the spike elk hunt, are examples of the horse before the cart. Both funnel hunters to a predictable outcome, and then try and use the outcome as proof that is what type of hunter most are.

For an example that is extreme, but I think clarifies my point: Lets say the town of Vernal passes a city ordinance that allows the car dealers to only sell Kia's and BMW's. After a couple of years it is clear most car buyers purchase Kia's, leading the city council to make the claim that most folks in town 'prefer' Kia's over BMW's. What they did was first limit the choices, second was to make one more appealing (cost) to the majority of citizens, and third ignore the 1st two factors in reaching a conclusion.

The limited entry elk program by design funnels most hunters to the 'any-weapon' season(s) with season dates and success rates. Same goes for the number of hunters who spike hunt, they limit an elk hunters options to hunt elk, then claim hunters 'prefer' spike hunting and cite the number of spike hunters as 'proof'. These are nothing more than walnut shell games getting folks to lose track of which one has the pea hidden under it.
 
RE: sw buck master

very well put and i agree with alot of what you said the state shopuld try to make incentives for guys to switch from rifle to bow or muzzy. Than when they do that there will be a few less that are in the poole. But to just increase archrey tags will not make an impact only on those that choose to hunt with a bow. iv been in the game 13yrs now and i hope i get my chance in the next few. but alon with increasing archrey tags i think that the muzzy guys should get a bump maybe 50%rife 20% muzzy and 30%archrey. but they should not increase archrey tags unless there is bump in applicants it only make it longer on the rifle guys i intend on hunting muzzy myself.
 
RE: sw buck master

tstewy
there are guys in arizona drawing their third choice rifle tag wth??

third choice you will never hear that in utah.

arizona also has half as many elk and moves ten times as many people through the drawing process. They also kill just as may 400" bulls


4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg

Nets are for fish!!
 
RE: sw buck master

Arizona has also gone from nearly 50K elk in the 1990's to 20K current because they are forced to reduce there heard sizes due to habitat and conflicts with domestic animails. I dont think that is the direction any of us want to see Utah's elk populations go even if it means we all get two or three bull tags.
 
RE: sw buck master

The number of mature bulls in a herd has a VERY small impact on the overall population of the herd. Mixing the effects of quality/quantity on the bull:cow ratio issue is a major part of the lack of sensible elk management.
 
RE: sw buck master

There have been some great points made in this discussion. The current seasons pretty much determine what type of hunt an applicat puts in for. If you strictly look at the success(kill) percentages, along with the season dates one would be nuts to choose anything over the 'any weapon' hunt. I believe thatif the state implements the season changes, changes the tag allocations, the success rates will begin to actually give the hunter the reason to change. I also agree the many on here that would rather hunt a 260 bull every 3-5 years over a spike any day! There is a movement called the Utah Wildlife Cooperative(found on facebook) that although relatively new, has a really well thought out agenda to help the state and the 'average joe' hunter. Please take a minute and read up and join in the fight to make Utah a great elk hunting state. This agenda has been presented to the Utah RAC's in the past month, but change takes a LOT of work and time.
kth
kth
 
RE: sw buck master

Being a fella that hunts Colorado and Utah every year, my answer would be both...

I have killed a few branch antlered bulls in Co. One being a 304" 6x6 in a crap unit..

But I have a few points in Utah now and I'm gonna get that big bull any year now....

I get just as much "thrill" killing a cow as I did that 304" bull. I like to hunt elk...

Todd
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-10 AT 10:47PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-10 AT 10:47?PM (MST)

I've done both. I know how passionate some are on these boards about the EMP, specifically in Utah, but I am one of those that answered on my elk survey that the most important thing to me is time in the field with my family. At least during the general hunt.

I like the any bull units because you have a chance, ok a small one, at harvesting a larger bull. If you work and scout hard enough they are out there although I've never been able to seal the deal on a 300+ on an any bull I've seen them. But you have to hunt hard for em.

I like the spike units because I can always find spikes and it's great to get young hunters and new hunters out seeing elk and they are every bit as excited to harvest a spike as you or I are to harvest a 390+ bull. That's what really excites me. Getting others on elk. I'm usually so excited to call elk and have close encounters that harvesting one usually brings with it some dissapointment.

So my answer is it depends on who is hunting with me that year that determines what gives me a bigger thrill. I typically do all I can to get others in camp an elk first before I harvest an elk so it isn't about me. I'm content to just hunt any bull or spike units, doesn't matter to me, until I draw my LE tag.

Here is my last any bull unit bull. He was a public land bull.

340406_bull.jpg
 
This is the proudest moment of my elk hunting career.

Last year I guided my Dad on his first ever elk hunt and we both took spikes in a spike only unit. He is an old muley hunter that never thought about chasing elk. Finally I talked him into it and I called this little guy in to boot along with many monster bulls. He had recently been laid off and two elk in the freezer really did him a lot of good. We called in many giants, one into 5 yards and for one week the roles were reversed and I was the teacher and he was the excited little kid. It was a once in a lifetime experience.

Dad with his first elk
54dsci0013small.jpg


...and mine. He think we was just as excited when I got mine. What a great hunt. It'll be hard to top till my kids get their first elk.

4372dsci0081small.jpg
 
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU,THE DWR SHOULD LEAVE IT AS IT IS.I REALLY DONT THINK ALL THESE XTRA SPIKE TAGS ARE EVEN GOING TO BE PURCHASED BY HUNTERS,BECAUSE WE ALL WANT A BIG BULL!!!!
 
I don't mind waiting for a 350 class bull. It's not the kill but the experience and the story that matter to me. Been wanting for a 350 bull my whole life. I lived in Utah for 15 years and now that I'm an out of stater I finally draw my tag Manti Muzzy tag. I'm excited but bumbed a bit because my chance for scouting is now limited.

So tie me up one of those 350's you seem to find each year coyoteslayer. And send me some video of it so I can show all my friends. I'm going to need all the help I can get because I just can't make myself shoot a 280 bull after waiting this long.
 
You got it right Elkhunter96. The any bull units need to be changed to 4 point or better so that the herd has a chance to grow. I have spent a lot of time in those units waiting for my LE tag and most of the cows are without calfs because there isn't any bulls around to do the breeding.

I wish Colorado would work up some LE units like Utah and wish Utah would build up some 4 point or better units like Colorado. But I must be dreaming. No one listens to the hunters.
 
>never met anyone who wants to
>shoot a spike.!!!!


i rode the short bus, and i love to hunt spikes. i dont have to worry about shooting a little guy and getting made fun of till next years embarrasment that i will have to live through till the next year's.. then the next.. etc... other than that, i really would love to shoot a monster.
 
Ok for one I want to know how many people honestly believe that every bull has the potential to even break the 300 mark? Probably 50% of the bulls in utah will never grow a 300 inch rack, 75-80% will never break the 350 inch mark! As far as killing spikes that is THE dumbest Thing utah has ever come up with! Let em grow, offer tags for mature bulls in the general units through a draw and eliminate bonus points for every who possesses a elk tag! Get the rifle tags out of the rut! And quit shooting spikes! If you want to fill your freezer shoot a cow! If your older than 20 and you feel proud of a spike, seriously?



I just call em as I see em!
 
LAST EDITED ON May-08-10 AT 10:50PM (MST)[p]i disagree with your 50 percent wont get over 300. well if allowed to get to full potential. obvious a spike wont ever get there if its killed. lol. i dont know the numbers but 50 percent not over 300 sounds pretty high! but most everything else you siad i agree with

and id rather shoot a 260-300 inch bull than a spike anyday! and you never know they can and will be bigger bulls out there if the units were managed for that size anyway
 
I would definetily rather have two or three opportunities in my life at trophy bulls ratherbthan hunt every two or three years for a raghorn. Not Even a close decision.
 
It's nice to hunt a good LE unit but it happens so seldom in ones life, that I would at least like to see Utah do away with killing spikes on general units and make the general units have to have branched antlers to be legal. At least then a guy would have a good chance at a raghorn rather having to take spikes most years if they want to fill their tag.

62591_elk.jpg



Have a good one. BB
 

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