H
hunter1
Guest
Ok lets hear your predictions for antler growth for AZ this year with the record snow fall in our state. compared to past seasons.it should be a good one.
M
maddglasser
Guest
Seeings how many, very early on, said last year would be great, and, well, we saw what happened, I am going to say the bulls will be at least 25% larger than a normal year, and 35% larger than a drought year.LOL.
I believe some hunters will take big bulls and some will take small bulls. The big bulls will be big, the small will be small. Lets just hope we have a rut to hunt during the early season this year. The cows will be in very good shape for the next season if the wet stuff keeps coming. This will certainly help for the early hunts.
I believe some hunters will take big bulls and some will take small bulls. The big bulls will be big, the small will be small. Lets just hope we have a rut to hunt during the early season this year. The cows will be in very good shape for the next season if the wet stuff keeps coming. This will certainly help for the early hunts.
theox
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,278
LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-10 AT 12:07PM (MST)[p]My prediction is az will produce the new world record. move over spider bull! spiderbull 2 is coming to town.Bigger faster dumber and much stinkier he will easily break into the mid 550's. start celebrating now fellas its inevitable it will happen!
And guess who will kill him! stinkys wife, qt i believe she has an az tag! right?
And guess who will kill him! stinkys wife, qt i believe she has an az tag! right?
It has started off well. Bulls could do really good (with antler growth) with a couple good rains in april and may. Some units didnt get the record rainfall that others did, but for the most part, I would expect antler growth to be average at a minimum.
Last year was a great year for antler growth, and pretty sorry for the rut, due to the 2nd worst monsoon on record. The cows were unhealthy and didnt cycle like they typically do, and therefore the rut was weak in spots, fair in others.
Last year was a great year for antler growth, and pretty sorry for the rut, due to the 2nd worst monsoon on record. The cows were unhealthy and didnt cycle like they typically do, and therefore the rut was weak in spots, fair in others.
M
maddglasser
Guest
Minimum 25%, maybe more!:7
billythekid
Active Member
- Messages
- 435
one thing is for sure. for those that neglect the fact moisture in timing and amount directly effects antler growth are misinformed.
how much can be debated and studied. however, this yr. is on pace to be an excellent yr. for horn growth in most parts of the state. there are some areas that have had record type moisture and others that have had average at best. time will tell.
for those who drew az. elk tags, pray for april and may showers and your bull will be even bigger. good luck hunting.
how much can be debated and studied. however, this yr. is on pace to be an excellent yr. for horn growth in most parts of the state. there are some areas that have had record type moisture and others that have had average at best. time will tell.
for those who drew az. elk tags, pray for april and may showers and your bull will be even bigger. good luck hunting.
C
CDN
Guest
IMO- the #'s stated are too high. While I know moisture will definately help, GENETICS and AGE are way more important. A 300 hundred bull just does'nt magically become a 400 bull because of moisture alone. Not all bulls are born be to 400 bulls even in Arizona. I believe 20 to 30 inches of growth would be more like it. Anything more than that is the exception not the rule. Just my opinion. But for you tag holders, I hope they grow as big as they can. Good Luck, CDN
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maddglasser
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Apr-06-10 AT 09:32AM (MST)[p]I can't believe the people that are taking our 25%-35% jokes serious! Come on!
Willy- I can't believe how smart you are!}> }> }>
Gator is spot on. Without good moisture throughout the year, the antler growth will not change. They need moisture in the late summer to provide feed throughout the fall. Even though they are hard horned, the bulls and bucks need to stay healthy. The forage the moisture produces in winter and early spring brings calories back to the animal's body first. This rain coming for 2-3 months is not a magic potion that takes animals antlers and swells them up. If the animal is not of the right age, of the right genetic make-up and HEALTHY throughout the year not much will change! This year looks great, lots of healthy animals I'd say 3%-5% better than normal on the right animals. Keep in mind on a 300" bull, that is still 10-15".
How much more will they weigh? That would show the biggest difference.
Willy- I can't believe how smart you are!}> }> }>
Gator is spot on. Without good moisture throughout the year, the antler growth will not change. They need moisture in the late summer to provide feed throughout the fall. Even though they are hard horned, the bulls and bucks need to stay healthy. The forage the moisture produces in winter and early spring brings calories back to the animal's body first. This rain coming for 2-3 months is not a magic potion that takes animals antlers and swells them up. If the animal is not of the right age, of the right genetic make-up and HEALTHY throughout the year not much will change! This year looks great, lots of healthy animals I'd say 3%-5% better than normal on the right animals. Keep in mind on a 300" bull, that is still 10-15".
How much more will they weigh? That would show the biggest difference.
K
KaibabHntr
Guest
Don't they say good winter moisture = good fronts (for elk) and good summer rains = good backs/tops as a general rule. Have both and bulls have good odds of reaching full potential. A few years of both would grow the biggest antlers...
Ryan
www.KeyToTheKaibab.com
Ryan
www.KeyToTheKaibab.com
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maddglasser
Guest
Yeah, and you ought to see the golf course bulls in Alpine on a dry year. They are all at least 15% bigger than the "wild" bulls. On a wet year they are still 10% bigger! It has 380" walking in the back nine everyday, bunches of them. That is where all the big unit 27 bulls come from!
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maddglasser
Guest
It's right next to unit 1, you'll be right there!
billythekid
Active Member
- Messages
- 435
LAST EDITED ON Apr-06-10 AT 02:09PM (MST)[p]>Willy- I can't believe how smart you are!}> }> }>
Travis,
you sure like to puff your chest and speak condescendingly to many who are evey bit or more knowledgable as you in regards to elk hunting in az.....
Travis,
you sure like to puff your chest and speak condescendingly to many who are evey bit or more knowledgable as you in regards to elk hunting in az.....
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maddglasser
Guest
OK Willy, sure thing!
Your not a guide
You don't live in AZ
You don't even plan hunting AZ anytime soon
(as said by you MANY times)
So what makes you the expert? I would lay money down to say you have not killed/assisted on 30+ bulls in your life in AZ.
I have guided over 200 Bulls in the past 15 years. 6 of which scored over 375. 2 over 400. All in AZ and westen NM.
You try picking a fight as often as you can with me, now that you get it back, you snivel like a kid. I know what this meant and who it was directed at.
"one thing is for sure. for those that neglect the fact moisture in timing and amount directly effects antler growth are misinformed." BTK
Also this comment shows your lack of hunting and harvesting many elk over the years. If you did hunt/guide thru all settings(drought vs wet) you would see that great bulls are taken every year regardless of moisture conditions.
"for those who drew az. elk tags, pray for april and may showers and your bull will be even bigger" BTK
It is wives tales like these that people believe and let dictate their efforts and their success. Spend a little more time in the hunting field billy!
Your not a guide
You don't live in AZ
You don't even plan hunting AZ anytime soon
(as said by you MANY times)
So what makes you the expert? I would lay money down to say you have not killed/assisted on 30+ bulls in your life in AZ.
I have guided over 200 Bulls in the past 15 years. 6 of which scored over 375. 2 over 400. All in AZ and westen NM.
You try picking a fight as often as you can with me, now that you get it back, you snivel like a kid. I know what this meant and who it was directed at.
"one thing is for sure. for those that neglect the fact moisture in timing and amount directly effects antler growth are misinformed." BTK
Also this comment shows your lack of hunting and harvesting many elk over the years. If you did hunt/guide thru all settings(drought vs wet) you would see that great bulls are taken every year regardless of moisture conditions.
"for those who drew az. elk tags, pray for april and may showers and your bull will be even bigger" BTK
It is wives tales like these that people believe and let dictate their efforts and their success. Spend a little more time in the hunting field billy!
R
rackem406
Guest
You know what Madglasser I haven't been on here for a long time, but with you rattling your nonsense on growth again I can't keep my mouth shut. You go after Billy and think you shut him up with your track record as a guide. You have no clue what you are talking about and who Billy is. In the last few years he's been in on four 400+ bull hunts and one of them was one he killed all in AZ. I won't go back past that or compare against your 6 bulls over 375 so you won't cry.
You have no idea what his credentials are, but I have a really good idea what they are and your bragging has nothing on him. I think that desert heat must get to you and make you a little loony. My guess is that if you ever saw Billy in person you would know exactly who he is and probably walk off with your tail between your legs.
Now I kinda wish I wasn't going into surgery tomorrow morning so I can see what other vomit comes from your mouth and ends up posted on here.
Rackem
You have no idea what his credentials are, but I have a really good idea what they are and your bragging has nothing on him. I think that desert heat must get to you and make you a little loony. My guess is that if you ever saw Billy in person you would know exactly who he is and probably walk off with your tail between your legs.
Now I kinda wish I wasn't going into surgery tomorrow morning so I can see what other vomit comes from your mouth and ends up posted on here.
Rackem
M
maddglasser
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Apr-06-10 AT 09:15PM (MST)[p]good for you Rackem, Glad to see you both have friends
Youy must be going into surgery to have your nose removed from Willy's bung. That smell is really gettin to ya! Rack I am sure I won't bowdown to anybody, if I recognized him, I he is probably to ashamed to say who he is like the way he hides. Unless of course he is GOD!!
We will all see each other someday, I will only wish you luck on your hunt, be it dry or wet. But I will never bow down to you or Willy, you guy's can go back to your coffee shops and tell everyone how good you are now.
Youy must be going into surgery to have your nose removed from Willy's bung. That smell is really gettin to ya! Rack I am sure I won't bowdown to anybody, if I recognized him, I he is probably to ashamed to say who he is like the way he hides. Unless of course he is GOD!!
We will all see each other someday, I will only wish you luck on your hunt, be it dry or wet. But I will never bow down to you or Willy, you guy's can go back to your coffee shops and tell everyone how good you are now.
M
maddglasser
Guest
AT LEAST 10%. That is why the 1968 record was not 480, it was killed on a moderate year. Oh but wait, that record still stands, what is going on with that??? With all the "wet" years we have had it should have been broke by now, maybe even in KT, PA.... but the record of 442 5/8 still stands! Must be a conspiracy!!
Lets see,,, the world typical record was broke in 05, if you can name a year with more 400+ bulls killed than 05, be my guest. Moisture and timing of it plays a huge role in the size of antlers... PERIOD This can be debated forever. Some of the most respected and experienced hunters will tell you the same thing. Good luck to all that drew..
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rackem406
Guest
Come on MG you post how good you are and say you'll put money on it and then you won't respond to a record of bigger bulls than you. Maybe you need to really put some money on the table for Billy. How bout a few scores for you 425, 421, 411, 408... No ones telling you to bow, but based on you posting your record as a guide you seem to think that the size of bulls taken makes someone an authority, so Billy must be more of an authority...
Even though you drive me nuts I wish you well on your hunts too. My surgery is actually a lobotomy to help me think more like you in regards to antler growth :7
Rackem
Even though you drive me nuts I wish you well on your hunts too. My surgery is actually a lobotomy to help me think more like you in regards to antler growth :7
Rackem
R
rackem406
Guest
Ok, I'll post without saying anything about MG but talk about the subject. First, genetics are genetics and if the bull doesn't have good genetics then it ain't ever going to be a toad.
My concern is with how the elk went into the winter with hardly any good feed in a lot of the units. We had some great winter storms, but a lot of elk were looking unhealthy with the poor feed going into winter. Hopefully for all those that draw there will be a few storms over the upcoming months and a good monsoon season. But leave me some bulls, I'm hoping next year will be my year to draw...
Rackem
My concern is with how the elk went into the winter with hardly any good feed in a lot of the units. We had some great winter storms, but a lot of elk were looking unhealthy with the poor feed going into winter. Hopefully for all those that draw there will be a few storms over the upcoming months and a good monsoon season. But leave me some bulls, I'm hoping next year will be my year to draw...
Rackem
A
AZDuke2500
Guest
Maddglasser,
Dude
You need to learn how to spell. I looked at your website. Mule deer not muledeer and a few other mistakes. I understand why you talk sh@t on this site. You must have a GED. Please stick to bighorn sheep. Your elk and deer pics are ok at best. Antelope, are you hunting in WY? Dude you need to back up your bs with facts. Have you ever killed a 400+ bull for yourself like billy that doesnt even live in az? It seems true that on a good year of rain and snow antlers would be bigger just as you stated that cows will be in great shape. Maybe with all of the scouting you have done in 30 years you would have kept a jounral on horn growth to backup your data. I can tell by your website that is not the case. Going against the grain is your MO maybe you just need to come out of the closet. Maybe change your website to "southwest i like both sides.
Dude
You need to learn how to spell. I looked at your website. Mule deer not muledeer and a few other mistakes. I understand why you talk sh@t on this site. You must have a GED. Please stick to bighorn sheep. Your elk and deer pics are ok at best. Antelope, are you hunting in WY? Dude you need to back up your bs with facts. Have you ever killed a 400+ bull for yourself like billy that doesnt even live in az? It seems true that on a good year of rain and snow antlers would be bigger just as you stated that cows will be in great shape. Maybe with all of the scouting you have done in 30 years you would have kept a jounral on horn growth to backup your data. I can tell by your website that is not the case. Going against the grain is your MO maybe you just need to come out of the closet. Maybe change your website to "southwest i like both sides.
M
maddglasser
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Apr-07-10 AT 10:54AM (MST)[p]Too funny 2500. Too funny. Try going back to third grade.
If you could read, you would see we hunt NM and AZ (those are abbreviations for New Mexico and Arizona) Wyoming is WY. When placing words for search engines you will list common spellings along with proper spellings, helps for traffic. I guess you don't understand that. I have guided 2 bulls over 400, not helped out on the hunt, guided. Me and the hunter, period. I have not drawn an AZ tag since 92, I don't even apply anymore. My hunting life is not based on what I have killed, it is based on the satisfaction of my clients. I know some VERY well respected guides in AZ, who also have never personally killed a 400" bull, they are great friends of mine. I would chose to hunt with these guy's over you any day. As far as deer goes, well you just looked silly with what you said. That really does not even deserve a response, but, bring you 2500 azz down here and try it, lets see what you think then. I am sorry you did not like my site, but, I guess I don't really care, I wouldn't be hunting with you anyhow.
Rackem- What you said about the elk going into the winter looking unhealthy is exactly what I was trying to say. As I mentioned on an earlier post I said the elk would improve, but only to a degree concurrent with stabilizing their bodies. The extra will help with the right bulls. I said very clearly year round water is most important on the antler debate. The animals must stay healthy and stress free for the greatest outcome on the antlers. I think we agree on that. We will never agree on what percentage spring rains do to a particular bulls growth. Nobody can give a specific number on wild elk, as their are not enough constants. Anybody who can forecast an exact number on growth is just full of Sh6t.
Oh wasn't there more 400" bulls killed in 2007 than 05. I think there was, or it tied. I am sure Somebody will jump on this bandwagon, try to look cool and look up the stat. But 07 was a "drought" year. Hmmm
this what B&C recognizes
B&C WORLD'S RECORDS ELK WORLD'S RECORDS TYPICAL AMERICAN ELK
SCORE: 442 5/8
LOCATION: White Mts., AZ
HUNTER: Alonzo Winters
OWNER: Alan C. Ellsworth
DATE: 1968
KEY MEASUREMENTS:
Length of main beam: Right 56 2/8 - Left 56 2/8
Inside spread: 47 4/8
Circ. of smallest place between 1st & 2nd points: Right 11 - Left 10 2/8
Number of points: Right 6 - Left 7
If you could read, you would see we hunt NM and AZ (those are abbreviations for New Mexico and Arizona) Wyoming is WY. When placing words for search engines you will list common spellings along with proper spellings, helps for traffic. I guess you don't understand that. I have guided 2 bulls over 400, not helped out on the hunt, guided. Me and the hunter, period. I have not drawn an AZ tag since 92, I don't even apply anymore. My hunting life is not based on what I have killed, it is based on the satisfaction of my clients. I know some VERY well respected guides in AZ, who also have never personally killed a 400" bull, they are great friends of mine. I would chose to hunt with these guy's over you any day. As far as deer goes, well you just looked silly with what you said. That really does not even deserve a response, but, bring you 2500 azz down here and try it, lets see what you think then. I am sorry you did not like my site, but, I guess I don't really care, I wouldn't be hunting with you anyhow.
Rackem- What you said about the elk going into the winter looking unhealthy is exactly what I was trying to say. As I mentioned on an earlier post I said the elk would improve, but only to a degree concurrent with stabilizing their bodies. The extra will help with the right bulls. I said very clearly year round water is most important on the antler debate. The animals must stay healthy and stress free for the greatest outcome on the antlers. I think we agree on that. We will never agree on what percentage spring rains do to a particular bulls growth. Nobody can give a specific number on wild elk, as their are not enough constants. Anybody who can forecast an exact number on growth is just full of Sh6t.
Oh wasn't there more 400" bulls killed in 2007 than 05. I think there was, or it tied. I am sure Somebody will jump on this bandwagon, try to look cool and look up the stat. But 07 was a "drought" year. Hmmm
this what B&C recognizes
B&C WORLD'S RECORDS ELK WORLD'S RECORDS TYPICAL AMERICAN ELK
SCORE: 442 5/8
LOCATION: White Mts., AZ
HUNTER: Alonzo Winters
OWNER: Alan C. Ellsworth
DATE: 1968
KEY MEASUREMENTS:
Length of main beam: Right 56 2/8 - Left 56 2/8
Inside spread: 47 4/8
Circ. of smallest place between 1st & 2nd points: Right 11 - Left 10 2/8
Number of points: Right 6 - Left 7
A
AZDuke2500
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Apr-07-10 AT 01:40PM (MST)[p]Thx, this thread has some funny sh#t in it. Maybe i call you when i get a sheep tag.
