DEERKING Update

H

huntsonora

Guest
There have been a few posts here recently talking about DK and what he has gotten himself into. I thought I would post an update here and I hope that this can remain as clean as possible.

As everybody knows, Jeff has not posted much here on MM for quite a while. I have talked with Jeff a number of times over the past couple of months and he has let me know that he made some mistakes and is paying for them right now. He has not gotten into specifics with me because the case is not closed. For that reason I highly doubt that DOW would talk about it either. I talked with Jeff today and he said that once the case is closed he will come on here and let everybody know the story. I know that he wants you all to hear it from him but as he told me today, he simply cannot talk about it until everything is finalized. I hope that we can all understand that.

Previous posts have been deleted, it is not because there is a buddy system or that anybody is trying to protect Jeff. It is because we need to allow the judicial system to do its job first. Until then all we have is speculation. PLEASE RESPECT THIS. I am sure that everybody will know the whole story soon enough.

Drummond
 
Bastardly fish cops? Come on, let's give both sides the benefit of the doubt before drawing any conclusions. Fish cops have a job to do like anyone else. Deerking deserves the courtesy of being left alone on this. Whatever happened and whatever the outcome is none of our damn buisiness. Making any comment directed towards Deerking of the Fish Cops without knowing all of the facts in the situation, is asinine. I, for one am glad that the previous post on this subject was deleted. If D-K wants us to know what is or has happened, it should be his call and no one elses!
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Eric
 
Well I hope it's nothing too serious. Jeff is a great guy,he went out of his way to help me out with questions and sent me maps of an area in CO for a muzzy hunt.

When it's resolved I would like to know what the heck went on. I must have missed some post's today.




beavis.gif
 
I saw 100 post threads about charges filed against darner.

If charges have been filed, they are a matter of public record. To state the charges and that they are still pending isn't unreasonable.. unless of course, you think it is reasonable for Darner but not for, um, a friend?

Anyhow consistency should be relevant. Either allow charges to be posted/discussed or insisist that only convictions are to hit the MB. Anyone should be able to call the court clerks office and get any filed charges, if they know the county of the aleged incident.
 
I've been following this forumn for abot 4-5 years, and this was the last guy I thought this would happen too. Kind of depressing, if the allegations are true. In another way, kind of redeeming if your like me and have been pounding general or low point units and only 160-170" bucks. I'll wait for the final results. As for DEERKING, I've enjoyed your posts and information and if you made a mistake, pay your price, admit to it, and I'd be the first to welcome you back to the forumn because you have contibuted more than 99% of others.
 
Jeff is a good guy. I don't know what happened or haven't heard anyway, I know he has done some wierd things in the past but he is a good guy none the less. We all make mistakes, hope whatever it is it isn't too serious.
 
Let me start this post by saying that I have nothing bad to say about Jeff (DeerKing). I have enjoyed his posts, his pictures, advice, and other posts. I hope the best for him in whatever is going on.

However, I do think it is a little bunk to censor what has happened or is being alleged. There have been NUMEROUS times that other peoples dirty laundry have been aired on these forums, without the "judicial system" taking their course. There have also been many posts made that were pure "speculation". So I have a problem believing there isnt a little "favortism" going on in this situation....as far as posts being deleted or not allowed. OBVIOUSLY something has happened and many of us are curious, so why keep us all in the dark...if someone knows something, let them share what they know!

TUFF
 
RE: DK Update

The posts that have been deleted are without merit. They were accusations and stabs. I agree with you Scott, and I talked to founder about this. He said this topic wont be sensored as long as someone isnt posting a BS post. I really would rather hear it from the horses mouth instead of 2nd/3rd hand info. I havent asked though. Just keep it clean.
buck1.gif


Later, Brandon
 
RE: DK Update

Ditto Brandon.

But, this place should be consistent. If someone wants to post filed charges in state or coutny X that's either fair or it isn't regardless of who's named.

How many "poacher x" threads have you read that were still PRE adjudication?? LOTS. So the point is, if you are going to allow charges to stand as reasonable public discourse that should always be fair. I didn't see the removed posts so I can't comment on them. But baseless accusations should be removed against freind and foe as well as those accurate charges LEFT UP against friend and foe.

It's just good policy. I have never conversed with Deerking, Jeff, and I have no preconceived notion that he's done a darn thing wrong.

This very much reminds me of the liberal view of tolerance. Tolerance in their view is when you say things they agree with, intolerance is everything else.
 
RE: DK Update

Its obvious that a lot of you guys did not see the previous thread(s) posted by a "new" member of MM. He did not post names or anything factual pertaining to the case. His posts were designed to stir the pot and there was NOTHING to gain from that. For that reason they were deleted and I posted this thread. I find it ironic that I delete a post that has no names or facts and post an accurate description of whats happening and I am accused to trying to protect a friend. I guess sometimes people will only be happy if they are able to stir the pot. Regardless, Jeff will come on and comment about everything he has done once the case is closed and that should be towards the end of May. Jeff has a lot of friends that frequent this site and has helped quite a few people here, I do not think that it is too much to ask that we let this thing play out and I am 100% positive that everything that he is guilty of will become public knowledge. Nothing pertaining to what he has done and been found guilty of will be deleted.

For what its worth, I have talked to Jeff and he has been completely honest with me, he has done things that he is not proud of. We have not gotten into specifics but it has to do with the illegal harvest of animals here in Colorado. He expressed his sincere apologies and was extremely remorseful during the course of our conversation. Never, at any point in our conversation, did he try to put the blame for what he has done anywhere but on his shoulders. He takes full responsibility for what he has done.

Guys, I dont know what else to do, you all ask us to be consistant but in reality this message board is moderated by all of us. If there is a post that needs to be deleted then hit the alert button and it will be deleted. Never has there been an alert on any of the Darner threads. To be quite honest, none of us have the time to read every post, thats why we rely on everybody here to help keep it clean.

Drum
 
RE: DK Update

Sounds like you did right then drum. Long as when someone posts the actual charges filed, whether they first get shaded or addressed by Jeff, you let them stand if posted acurately.

This is the shltter.... MB's are "public" yet annonymous. I don't have a clue who he is and it's of no concern to me what the charges are or aren't in and of themeselves. There's always a sub set of folks in any forum that becomes only barely private and that changes the whole flavor. I'm not pro or con on the matter, but I've seen some aweful drubbings that folks who were "charged" have taken in here without much defense from site moderation, that was the only point about consistency.

I'd hate to see a half aszed POS version of reality get passed on my friend/acquaintance here too. It passes all the time though, till it's someone who's only semi annonymous.

PS: the "we don't read every thread" thing is pretty self indulging. Eery SFW or MDF thread that trashes, legitimately, those orgs gets tossed. So, threads are read, the fact simply is that the moderation isn't approached from a non biased perstpective. You guys have your interests and you protect them. You've not asked someone with no stake to moderate. So, moderation happens with a slant. And that's ok too!... this isnt a democracy it's your house... just don't forward a pretense of even-handedness or maybe decide to get someone who's unbeholden with all sides to do the moderation. Just a thought, dismiss it out of hand if you like.
 
RE: DK Update

LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-06 AT 08:02AM (MST)[p]>Its obvious that a lot of
>you guys did not see
>the previous thread(s) posted by
>a "new" member of MM.
> He did not post
>names or anything factual pertaining
>to the case. His
>posts were designed to stir
>the pot and there was
>NOTHING to gain from that.

Whahuh???

What he did is give the phone number and contact info for the CO F&G so EACH INDIVIDUAL could get DIRECT facts. He omitted the name of the individual because prior to that, any post with Deerkings name it was promptly deleted.

Having read and taken part in that thread, I fail to see how "He did not post names or anything factual pertaining to the case" can possibly apply when it gave info get get the absolute factual information from the source, the CO F&G.

I just dont understand the "spin" going on here anymore.
 
RE: DK Update

I am going to toss my hat in the ring here. This is an interesting thread.

I do not know DK or have never spoke to him. I felt like maybe I would use his services to cut out some serious scouting time. It appears his services are no longer rendered?

Drummond, you state some animals were taken illegally? The first word that pops into my mind is "poached." You were livid last year after someone shot a deer you were after on private ground? I cannot say as I blame you, but why were these accusations let to run wild on MM without a quick and fair trial?

I sat back and laughed last month at the "Two Days Early Shed Hunt On The Island Fiasco." Tony was called every name in the book and he did that legally. What he did not do was do it fair to everyone else who wanted to shed hunt. Those threads went uncensored for a month.

The word SFW cannot be stated on MM without a 100 posts of the dirty rotten scoundrels catering to the rich. We know everything about them. Where they eat, sleep, travel and how much money they make. We even know what kind of house they have and where it is, but these threads run on and on without any intervention or any wrong doing.

I could go on and on. I won't though. We all know what I am talking about. Is it ok to be illegal around here if you are in the "Circle of Trust?" The word illegal brings out the best/worst in all of us because we feel cheated and rightfully so. Many are not illegal, but they are doing things not the way we want them done, and they get trashed without any intervention.

It appears to me the "Good ol' Boy System" is alive and well on MM. Anyone else who shoots a minute after hours, drops a Budweiser can, smashes a sagebrush with a wheeler tire, sells their wife's points on eBay, shoots 412 yards, wounds an animal, uses a 2 way radio, picks up island bone, runs a conservation group, and so on and so forth is a rotten SOB and is left to get drug through the mud on MM. Anyone else in this case had better hold on tight for the MM ride they are about to endure.
 
RE: DK Update

I, for one, do not mind a little blantant favoritisim on this borad for someone who has contributed so much to this board. If anyone has earned it, I think it is DK.

Just my two-cents.

Mark
 
Wow! DK has had alot of good posts here. We all have enjoyed them. He gave alot of good tips. It reminds me of a guy in the 80's. We all loved him, but the quest for money and fame hurt that guy. I hope the same does not happen to DK.
Drummond if he took animals illegally isn't that poaching? Doesn't that make him a poacher? What if someone else was watching that animal all summer only to be outdone by a poacher. I bet that person is pi**ed!
ProHunter
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
 
prohunter,

You are exactly right. This reminds me of the 80's without knowing what has happened or alleged. I make that assumption based on what I have read here. A very successful deer hunter in trouble with the law.

FamilyMan,

I have to disagree with you. Every year we have looked forward to his photos and his harvest photos. He has been idolized here. Where are the pictures? He is the King. You are the man. Just like always great photos. These are the things we have said. Is this giving so much to the board? I would say yes, but if they are "taken illegally," then I would say we have all be duped into believing something that is not true. I would have to believe that DK has instilled a little jelousy in all of us due to his annual success. Many times I have wondered how does he do it?

For his sake I hope it (whatever it is) is not true. He has never treated me wrong or had any cross words that is for sure.
 
I've been visiting this site for several years now. I am one of the idiots whose first post started something like ?I have 9 preference points for mule deer where should I apply for a tag in Colorado.? And I was duly lit up like so many others that I've seen make the similar mistake since then.
I don't make a habit of posting a lot but I do feel like I know some of the folks around here reasonably well and through offline discussions I am pleased to know some very well and include them as friends of mine. There?s some that I've never corresponded with at all but I look forward to their posts because of their point of view, sense of humor or because we've been able to follow some of their work in publications regarding western big game hunting.
There?s always been a real sense of community around the MM board and although there have been a lot of new faces lately I think that sense of community is still pretty strong.
I don't know the moderators for the board but they probably all have full time jobs trying to make a living to support their families and this hobby/obsession that so many of us share. They may not have the time to think politically 24 posts down the thread as to what may or may not upset readers from the forums.
When I read the post from safarikid74 the other day, a first time poster flaming somebody who has contributed a good deal of constructive content to this board over the years, I was a little hacked off. I mean, if you're going to flame somebody, have the backbone to put your real mm ID up there when you do it and then if it's worth discussing lets discuss it. You don't have to sign it with your legal name and email to the post but I think you get my drift here.
I'm sure that whatever is at the heart of this thread will come out one way or the other. And as sick as that may make us, the conflict in our own ranks about the moderators deleting a previous post or playing favorites just adds to the division among the hunting public that we need to be guarding against. The post was deleted because it was asked to be deleted by a nobody (me) in the MM community.
I'm sorry that Drum has to go on the defensive for me thinking a post was inappropriate.
Dslaughter
 
Guys,

May is not that far off. I will hold off until whatever has happened comes to light. You should too.

My first post on Monster Muley's years ago was one of those I've got nine points for Deer where should I apply. The King and many others gave me good advice without flaming me. Drummond even offered to drive all the way from Texas to help me out. I've come to regard many of these people as friends even though I've only met a handful in person. I'll wait and watch to see what comes up. I don't believe I'll be casting any stones.

Fred Judson
BeanMan
 
RE: DK Update

First of all, my profound apologies for my weakness of words in this post, as words can't come close to how I feel about this. But I'll give it a shot to give my views and perspective.

To KTC......I would believe that most if not all the hunters here would agree it's not "OK" to be illegal here no matter who you are, what you've done or how much you are liked. I don't think anyone has said or inferred that.

Most of our fellow MM members have come to know Jeff personally or vicariously through his past informative and many times entertaining posts, pictures, poems, and stories. Whatever your relationship with him has been, my perception is that most, if not all of us, have developed a very sincere & profound respect for him. And, with the earning of one's respect comes some entitlement, in this case perhaps a little defense of that person when the chips come down. You might consider the converse of this; a person who is a loudmouth, a slob, a jerk.....when something goes wrong, for some folks it's real easy to condemn and ridicule. This situation is the exact opposite of that.

To Drummond.....I don't know nor care what that "other thread" was all about, but if it was trashing Jeff or his reputation in any way, thank you for getting it deleted. Knowing the class act that you have always been here, I'm sure that you spoke with Jeff before starting this thread, and received his permission to post the info you have in order to help stop the curiousity and questions about his absence over the past few months. And while surprised to see this thread at first, in retrospect I'm thinking that it's a both good thing for the King and MM.

To the rest of you; I'm one of those fortunate people who has had an opportunity to hunt & camp with Jeff. I've met some of his family and we've shared many thoughts about just about every subject I can think of over the past few years via emails. Aside from his sometimes ultra corny humor, he has always, always been one of those wonderful people who would give you the shirt off his back and who always sees the good in others. To me, Jeff is family, so both he and his privacy have certainly earned my respect, and will always have whatever support I can give whenever needed. I believe that's what true friends are all about and I would bet that is why folks here with any knowledge of this issue have kept their mouths shut....out of their pure respect and friendship to the King. I wish him my very, very best and heartfelt support through this particular time in his life, and I hope that everyone of you will do the same.
 
dslaughter and Fred, Very well said!

I hate when someone registers under a new name just to "stir the pot" You MM old timers remember the days of all the unregistered guests bashing people? Cant the moderators find the IP address of the poster? It would be great if the mods could do that then tell us who it is that is stirring the pot under a new name.

As far as favoritism goes say what you want but Jeff contributed alot to MM and helped alot of people with questions ect. and he did so without getting a big head and becomming arrogant. Let him pay the price for what he has done.If he's man enough to come forth to tell us all what happend and appologize that tells you what kind of person he is.




beavis.gif
 
I believe, if he admits to guilt, his hard lesson learnt,
will be a lesson to us all. Temptation hits all of us. It
is discipline, a strong mind, and faith that keeps us from
succumbing to it.

Like I said, a lesson for us all.

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
 
WHAT IS THE CHARGE HE FACES????
IS IT ILLEGAL TAKE?
HUNTER TRESPASS?
TAKE AFTER SHOOT TIME? SPOT LIGHTING?
WILL SOMEONE PM ME?
Because I go by 1st impressions and this whole thing reads like
Deerking is a wonderful, helpful, great!great person who is loved dearly by many and very successful hunter,etc,etc!.........however is being accused of ..poac..illea..wha...I don't know what because MM is censoring or protecting him from any bad PR! All I see is sometime to plea to lessers...
DA's love that! So I would like to see know what current!
Once I was charge with something that almost put me I prison for
1o plus years! DNA TEST saved my a$$ ! and to this day some still will throw that in my face but I am man enough to not let it bother me! Label is an lable!
jack
 
I find it quite interesting that when someone we know takes an animal illegally it's called a mistake and all they have to do to return to our favor is repent and post great pictures, but if it's a stranger that commits the same crime it's called "POACHING". I've shared camp and hunted with guys that I thought were great people but the first time I had evidence that they committed a wildlife crime I turned them in to the proper authorities and never hunted or associated with them in any way from that point forward. Like I said it's amazing how hunters will dismiss poaching as a simple mistake when it's a friend or they think they know someone. There's always a good excuse. Hell everyone in prison has one. The true reason is greed!
Wes
 
I consider Jeff a good friend even though I am not one of the Good Ole Boys.
Nobody knows what has or has not happend yet including myself.
Whoever posted claims under a new login name is just plain gutless.
At least I voice my opinions with my name attached regardless of what anyone thinks.
My opinion,
Jerry
 
Wes- Excellent post. I feel the same way.

ktc- great posts also. You better draw that elk tag this year....
 
I for one, am going to stand behind and support one of my "brothers" here at MM for now. In addition to Antlerquest, Jeff has done so many things for me and many others on this website without compensation. Things may change for a lot of people once the TRUE facts are known. Certainly trashing someone like Deerking and implying he is a poacher is VERY premature. For the time being, he certainly deserves the benefit of the doubt!

As far as it being the same as others we don't know, I beg to differ. Which of you would not support one of your own family accused of something until the full facts were known? What ever else he has done, he is part of the MM family. Anyone who has been here in more than a passing role knows that.

Respect and loyalty are earned, and he has earned mine until PROVEN otherwise.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
If a person took a shot at a buck and his bullet passed through that buck and killed another buck that the hunter didn't see and he was caught, the hunter would be guilty of "illegal take". Would that hunter be a poacher?

All I'm saying is let's wait until we hear the rest of the story.

If Jeff confesses to spotlighting turtles, I will be CRUSHED!

Steve
 
lets all practice something that has been around your entire life. A little respect of something that is none of your goshdarn business!!!!
 
>Cant the moderators
>find the IP address of
>the poster?

Oh hell no, spoofing IP addresses is *extremely* easy. Someone with even mild intent could very easily post under any IP... even *YOURS* LOL. The Internet just isnt designed for security or reliable identification and a great many tools exist to spoof IPs or even low level MAC addresses.

> It would
>be great if the mods
>could do that then tell
>us who it is that
>is stirring the pot under
>a new name.

Its not a secret... but I question your "stir the pot" phrase. I dont see how posting that "someone" (deerkings name was NOT used) prominent from MM was being investigated and a phone number + contact info for the CO F&G given in case anyone wanted to do their own DD on the issue, is stirring any pot.

Seems a great many people who didnt get a chance to read the "removed" threads are somehow imagining some massive smear campaign... when in truth those threads were milder than this one.

/shrug
 
the word "POACHER" is the layman term!
"Illegal take" is just that! a legal term used to emplies
the take or taken was against the law!
rm
 
The post that was deleted was talking about a "photographer" that was busted for poaching. Think about that for a minute. How many people contribute great photographs to this forum? I can think of 5 or 6 guys right off the top of my head, some are well known professional photographers. You guys are so damn quick to judge, let the facts come out and the person that has committed the crimes will have to answer for them. It would be inappropriate to leave a blanket statement like that up on this site where somebody could have gotten the impression that it was one of those guys.

As for Jeff, when he gets punished I will not feel sorry for him. I told him this and he said that any negativity he receives is a product of his own doing and takes full responsibility. Sometimes I think that if you dont come out of the gates and trash somebody you will be accused of trying to protect them. I just want all of the facts to come out before we get a lot of speculation. If you want to call DOW there is a phone number on this website.

And the most rediculous thing I have heard is the guys getting on me for not using the "P" word. I talked with Jeff and posted what I was told by him. If you want to use the word "poacher" go ahead and use it, I really dont care. I was not trying to lessen what has happened because I dont know what has happened. I am waiting for the case to be closed and look forward to getting the facts. This is what we all should do.

I honestly feel that some of you guys will complain just to hear yourselves complain. Its typically the same people that question moderating and slam on others. If you dont like it then start up your own website and make your own rules.

Drum
 
Drum,

Like I said, I have had no dealings with DeerKing, only looked at his photos and harvest pics. I have never had cross words with him. To me he is just another guy here who shows some big bucks. I guess this is the reason my jaw has dropped over this thread.

You seem to be getting up tight about "speculation," "judging," and waiting for the "facts." People are only doing this based on your comments. You state your conversations were to do with illegal harvests. You also stated he is not proud of what he has done. You make it sound like there was many animals involved and he is ready to ante up for what has happened.

Think about it. The only speculation I have is based on your update about DeerKing. The update, as you write it, sounds like you are stating facts. I tend to believe them as facts when you are conversing with him on the phone regularly. So when people are quick to judge, myself included, they are only judging your facts or speculation. However, I have been careful not to label him with any crime.

The "P" word is not a racial slur. Only a term used for those who illegally take game. I will say it again. I hope he is not guilty or has done anything wrong. DeerKing is one who has posted some great photos that make my mouth water. I think this update has stirred the pot and out of curiosity people want to know. Maybe the update had been better left alone, but for the most part we can post as we see fit. The term MM family was used and if one of my buddies or family was in hot water I would want to know why. I have not asked why because it is clear that was not the reason behind the update. I am still not asking why.

Starting my own website would be fool-hardy when this one already exists. We talk hunting, and a broad range of other subjects here, and unfortunately poaching is the ugly side of our hobby and sport. Go look at the bear forum about the poached bears. Emotions run high when the subject comes up. People get very angry.

The sad part is, by posting a thread such as this, it has become everyone's business in a round a bout way. If there is any chance that he is not guilty of whatever, I would hope this thread gets removed. It is not fair to DeerKing.
 
im personally not going to pass judgment untill we get all of the facts , including the accused on the stand, then if necessacary well hang him but not until.
 
As I said I know Jeff but I have to agree with KTC. Drum, does Jeff know your posting this thread ? It seems like you were stirring the pot a bit. I'm sure most people here had no idea and it probably should have been left that way. Its kind of like a child molester, even if you are wrongly accused you always have that stigma and people will wonder if you really did it even if you are innocent. I'm not saying poaching is as bad as child molesting, I'm just using it as an example. This thread should have never been posted.
 
I was just trying to generate that type of discussion (which I did), but I certainly will stand behind Jeff also. I've been in some game and fish "trouble" before. But, I learned from it and didn't repeat my "mistakes".
 
Here is an idea. Take this off of the internet until DK can, or wants to, speak for himself?
 
KTC, that is EXACTLY what we wanted to do until a "new" member came on here and kept posting about this. This "new" member kept pushing the issue and we were left with very few options. This is why I talked with Jeff and he said it would be best if we went ahead and did it this way.

Drum
 
Here is how I look at it. Jeff has helped me out with area's in Colorado with out even blinking an eye. He knows his business and knows where the deer are and how to hunt them better than most on this site. For what i know he is a stand up guy and I am not going to change any opinions on him as for now.

I will wait until the end and see what DK has to say when he logs back on. I will not follow or let false assumptions waiver my opinion on whats happening with DK. There is no reason to argue about the situation or throw the book at Jeff quite yet. Lets just wait for the verdict on the problem and go on from there. Some are making this into a pissing distance contest and have no idea what is happening. Let's just sit back, relax and talk about hunting and the outdoors and not bad talking a fellow MM member.

Good luck DK and I hope all goes well.





MIKE
 
Maybe I have missed something...but what has he been charged with? Did a grand jury indict him? Is deerking and antlerquest the same person? If in fact he has been charged with something why not at least put it our here like we have with Darner, Hatch and many others. I'd be willing to bet that we have an over zealous authority trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
 
I don't post alot but have been a member and observer for quite some time. Jeff has given alot of people help and information about hunting. Not to mention his photography skills. Lets not forget he lives in Co and can spend the amount of time in the outdoors that we all dream about. There seems to be alot of judges out there lurking around to pounce on someones miss fortunes. The last time I looked the only judges I know carry a gavel and work in a courtroom. So lets no be so quick to judge someone else until you walk in there footsteps. If something is determined about his case so be it. If a mistake was made I am sure he'll own it. Nobody is perfect and everyone can make a mistake. Lets remember that. My opinion of him will not change.
Gary
 
I have expected this day to come for 7 months, with a sick feeling in my gut for several reasons.
1. a good friend did something he should not do,
2. He and I both knew he would get rightfully hammered on this board, with or without facts.
3. I and many other friends of DK would find ourselves in an uncomfortable situation. Defendending a friend(not his actions).

Poaching or any other illegall hunting activity is a mistake, done for whatever reason. Although I have never met Jeff, I consider him a great friend. I have been inspired by his photographs and film as well as his stories, as so many of you have been. To say he was a fake is not true. He is a talented outdoorsman who has a great gift. And although I know many of the facts, there are questions that only Jeff can answer, if he chooses. I will say this, Jeff was not caught doing something wrong. Jeff did something wrong, then reported it. He then has spent the next 7 months sick about his actions and embarrassed at what has happened. He has accepted full responsibility and will pay the penalty when imposed. None of you can call him any name he hasn't called himself.

I will not protect Jeff from the insults, because he doesn't want the protection. He knows that what he did was wrong but only hopes his true friends will stay just that. I am not happy with what he did, but I am happy to still and always call him my friend, knowing that he and I are better hunters, outdoorsman and familymen and friend because of this experience.

Good luck Jeff, Your friend

Larry
 
Hunt Sonora,
I have been on this site about a year,i think its awsome.I dont know Deerking from the next guy.It sounds likes he is a good guy,that has helped a lot of people.Thats great.The problem is he sounds like he did somthing very dumb and crossed the line.That means everything he has ever done is now in question.
His choice... To me, that doesnt mean he cant be a friend or included in the family picture ect...My question is from the outside looking in.You yourself look bad.Your sensoring and minipulating what is said and talked about because its your friend.Those of us that were/are friends of say a Darner didnt get those same benifits.We had to listen to people say stupid /outragious things, nobody pulled their comments.Know you have someone in the same boat.Puts it in a different light doesnt it???The only differences i see between Darner and Deerking is Deerking was on this website.If Darner was a contributor would you have protected him also???I think fair should be fair.Darner helped alot of people out in life also...
You dont have to respond to this or anything.I just am an outsider looking in.
 
"knowing that he and I are better hunters," Sorry, just now sure where that came especially if you have never met the guy. Jeff must be one hell of a nice guy with all the respect he is getting on this board. I don't even know him but I feel like he is a family friend. Kind of like I felt about Darner when he so graciously gave me some pertinent info regarding this monster buck years ago!
 
Im jumping in the back seat with ktc and colville as pilots! I agree with justa bout everything they said. Poaching= and no, ive never broken a single law in my whole life
 
Ridge
I said "better hunter" etc because we are better able to understand how easy it is to be tempted to cross a line we never imagined could be crossed. It doessn't matter whether its hunting, morality, drugs or what. Sometimes good peopole just give in. Some people learn from their mistakes, some people learn from others. I try to learn from everyone elses as well as my own.

I said I never met him but we have conversed thousands of times through phone and email. Ya he's like family.

Larry
 
I have been reading this post for a couple days and trying to keep from posting.....well, here goes:

The last time I checked, there are to not many ( or any! ) perfect people on this earth.

As I get older, I find myself more often than not saying " I'm am sorry". Not because I am doing or saying more things now than I did when I was younger, just might be because I am understanding the principle of forgiveness. It works for both parties.

I also have not met Jeff, but have been able top speak with him long before I knew him as DK here on MM. At this time, he provided me with maps and information at no gain to himself.

If in fact Jeff did do something that was not right and turned himself in, I give him credit. It takes someone special to do that and pay the consequences. As other posts have said, he will be a better person because of it.

This post is in no way meant to preach. Believe me, I probably need it more than most.

How many times have you been tempted to do something wrong.....and went ahead and did it anyway? No mater how big or how small,it is still wrong.

We all want what is best for all wildlife.

Really appreciate all the wonderfull people here on MM.

Hope to read more posts from DK in the future.
 
I have not personally met DK but have talked to him on the phone a few times. I don't know any of the facts. Everyone makes mistakes. Some learn from them. I still believe DK is a top notch guy. Good luck
 
putting gasoline in a diesel is a mistake...........


JB

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
--Benjamin Franklin 1759
 
I don't know whether to be sad about what happened to DK,
or pissed that I've yet to talk to him on the phone!

Looks like he helped quite a few of you here on the forum.

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-17-06 AT 10:05AM (MST)[p]I am still here...I just have to work for a living as well as it was Easter this weekend.

First I was not trying to stir any pot. I was just telling the truth.

Is cheating on your wife a mistake?
Hell no, It's cheating thats it.

Poaching is not a mistake, Its poaching. Nothing less.

I am not a friend of DK...It does sound like he was a good person though. With that being said if he did do this...it is what it is!

I have read MANY post on here that rip people to pieces for committing this kind of act. Now when a friend does it he is forgiven. Its a "mistake" NOT "poaching" I know that this is what being a friend is all about. BUT it is what it is. and that is stealing from you and I.

To air is human like, To forgive is God like.

Darner was ripped to shreds on here. It sounds to me like some of you are strong supporters of HILLARY 2008. Like a lot of you have double standards.

You may want to forgive him, which is fine but, I will never forget anyone that poaches my wildlife.

I read some of your post and it makes me SICK to read ..."poor dk, Those b@astard fish cops, I hope he is okay" FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. The cops didnt do anything but their JOB. Some of you are making him a martyr. Can you say......LIBERAL???
 
On the "general" page there is a listing of options. (side by side) click on the one that says "Inbox"

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-17-06 AT 10:34AM (MST)[p]we found out a long time ago that this sites IP address checking system doesnt work. DONT USE the ip checker.
buck1.gif


Later, Brandon
 
Poacher
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Poacher may refer to:

Poaching, the theft or illegal killing of animals or plants, or sometimes artifacts. A poacher is someone who engages in poaching.
 
How do you guys feel about Barry Bonds? Should has past homers have an astrick on them when he's in the Hall of Fame.(Roids) When you look at Darners bucks do you wonder if there legit? This situation with DK just sucks I feel let down. Russ
 
safarikid74,
I dont know Deerking, or Darner, and truthfully I dont give a rats ass what they did. Why? Because its not my job to care, and stirring the pot on MM wont do anyone one bit of good. What Id really like to know, and im sure im not alone on this, is who you really are and why you felt it necessary to hide your true identity? What do you stand to gain by slandering someone on the internet? Once again, I am not defending anyone on this site for any reason, I am just wondering who the hell you are to pass judgement on anyone else? If they are found guilty they will be punished.
ismith
 
Okay goofball, If you read these threads in full you will see that I have not slandered ANYONE!!! I told the truth. It was HUNTSONORA that started calling names.

I do not like poachers...it is wrong and against the LAW!!! do you know what that means? Most of you bashed Darner for poaching. Why is it okay for a friend to do it? Is it okay for you to poach??? what about one of your friends??? Dont you think one law and punishment should apply to all who break them. Or are you a democrat that thinks its okay for you to do it.

why dont you go sit in line and wait to vote for hillary clinton in 2008. Or you could shut up and say something that has some brains behind it?
 
One thing I find hard to believe is that a number to the DOW was given out to call and find out the facts in the earlier post that was deleted....
I guarantee that nobody with the DOW would give information about a case that is not yet resolved much less any other orginization.

If Jeff did something wrong and he turned himself in as it sounds it should say something about his character.
I guarantee he is not hiding behind friends and feeling good about whatever it is.

The only good that is going to come out of this is that he learns a lesson from what he did and gets to see who really are his true friends.
Best,
Jerry

safarikid74- Why don't you quit hiding behind a fake login and reveal your real self. As far as I am concerned your just as bad as anyone else.
 
Safarikid, you say "I was not trying to stir any pot. I was just telling the truth." I saw your very first and second posts, before they were deleted which were nothing more than slandering somebody in a cowardly way. You should be ashamed of yourself. Your whole reason for signing up under the "Safarikid" name was to slander this man.

You?re remarks about mistakes, (i.e. cheating on your wife), being a democrat, and a black and white definition of "poaching." shows that you have a lot to learn in life.

Hunters are among the worst of hypocrites, the classic, "do as I say, not as I do" types.
Some folks enjoy relishing in another?s anguish, deserved or not. It becomes magnified if the person being slandered has a history of success and good fortune; people will line up to slander them.
 
>One thing I find hard to
>believe is that a number
>to the DOW was given
>out to call and find
>out the facts in the
>earlier post that was deleted....
>
>I guarantee that nobody with the
>DOW would give information about
>a case that is not
>yet resolved much less any
>other orginization.

Arrest reports are public info. You are correct that the details of the prosecution's case are not. But getting an arrest report is easy... heck your local news gives names and info every night regarding various crimes arrests.
 
I AM NOT HIDING UNDER A FAKE LOGIN!!!!!!!!!!! I am a hunter and a conservationalist. I love wildlife and I love the chances that this great country gives us to hunt. (when we can draw)

When I found out about this I posted it because I THOUGHT that the MM members might like to know. I care about who is stealing from you and I.

Hearing this news prompted me to sign on for the first time. Why would I want to lie about who I am? I have done nothing wrong here. I did break the law.

I never met DK. It sounds like he is a pretty good guy other than the fact that he broke the law.
 
safarikid74,
What exactly was the content of the PM supposed to prove? As for your personal attack on me, thank you for letting me know im dealing with a mental midget here. You obviously know nothing about me, so keep flappin your jowls.
I thought I was fairly clear that I was taking no sides in this issue. Yes I feel poaching is wrong and a just punishment should be issued to those to poach. No I am not a democrat, and I am in no way a Hillary supporter.
 
well I would like to give you a little education on the term slander.

IF I WERE TO SLANDER SOMEONE IT WOULD MEAN THAT MY STATMENTS ARE FALSE. IN THIS CASE I MAKING STATMENTS THAT ARE TRUE.

IF YOU HAVE NOT READ IN FULL I WILL TELL YOU AGAIN THAT I AM A LAWYER...WHICH MEANS I AM AN EXPERT ON FINDING OUT THE TRUTH.


Libel and Slander terminology
"Libel", "slander", and "defamation" are commonly used as synonyms in ordinary language in Britain and Ireland. In some jurisdictions, like the United States, defamatory communication in writing is termed "libel" while one made via the spoken word is termed "slander". However, because the underlying distinction is between permanent and transient communications, some jurisdictions regard all defamatory communications (even spoken statements) broadcast on radio or television as "libel". Both acts share a common legal history, although they may be treated differently under some legal systems.

According to the American and English Encyclopedia of Law, a libel is a malicious defamation expressed either by writing or printing or by signs, pictures, effigies or the like; tending to blacken the memory of one who is dead, or to impeach the honesty, integrity, virtue or reputation, or to publish the natural or alleged defects of one who is alive, thereby exposing him to public hatred, contempt, ridicule or obloquy; or to cause him to be avoided or shunned or to injure him in his office, business or occupation.

[edit]
Excuses
Even if a statement is derogatory, there are circumstances in which such statements are permissible in law.


Truth
In many, though not all, legal systems, statements presented as fact must be false to be defamatory. Proving to be true is often the best defense against a prosecution for libel. Statements of opinion which cannot be proven true or false will likely need to apply some other kind of defense.

In some systems, however, truth alone is not a defense. It is also necessary in these cases to show that there is a well founded public interest in the specific information being widely known, and this may be the case even for public figures.
 
sorry, but this whole thing reaks of favoritism......I have read rant after rant on this website concerning poachers. Not only concerning Darner but also Native Americans, I myself have come down hard on Native Americans for poaching, and I have read some posts from many of you that border on racism when it comes to your criticism of Native Americans.

I didn't get to read the first allegations, but I do know that in a later post, huntsonaro said that it had to do with "harvesting of illegal animals in Colorado"......well the key here is "animals"; a mistake is when an otherwise ethical hunter gets caught up in the moment and does someting foolish. That is a mistake, when it happens to one animal. When it happens to more than one animal and is over a period of time, that is poaching, pure and simple.

All these people come on here and post pictures of the big bucks they get, or their clients get, and they have done it consistently. Doesn't that ever make anybody suspicious????? If you can consistently shoot big mule deer you become something of a celebrity in some circles, and even make a living, and that is part of what is wrong with the sport.

You can be horrible poacher ,and a nice guy, but that doesn't mitigate being a poacher.

I will reserve judgement for now, but my guess (and I said "guess") is that this guy is probably a serial poacher. If he poached several animals recently, do you really think that he just all of a sudden "lost it" and poached a few animals???? People deserve a second chance in life, but lets be honest, people here are willing to give some people a second chance, while the crucify others (indians,darner), and that is called favoritism.
 
WELL THEN GIVE CREDIT WHEN DUE. IF SOMEONE BREAKS THE LAW THAT IS IT. STOP BEING A LIBERAL BY SHOWING DOUBLE STANDARDS.
 
WELL said muleyguy, It makes me feel good to see that a few of you will say it out loud. poaching is wrong. I pray that he(dk) does change from this. not for him but for you and I. I just dont want to see our game stolen from us.
 
I have to say that the theme from most of these posts is it's OK to poach as long as you're a nice guy and offer info to anyone who asks. You guys are bashing a person who you know nothing about simply because he posted public information and most of you are defending a person who once again you know nothing about other then the things he's posted on the internet. From reading these posts I wonder how many of you would stand up and defend wildlife by turning in a poacher. If he's a friend I'll bet you would look the other way. I don't feel the same way. I've turned a few friends and a lot of strangers and a don't regret either. It's obvious that DK commited some crime but rather then stand up against law breakers you bash the messenger and the law enforcement who's job it is to prosecute law breakers. It's a sad state when hunters defend poachers.
Wes
 
All I know is that I have missed DK greatly. Learning this news today has left me with a bad sunk feeling in my gut. I hope we here from him soon.
 
well I would like to give you a little education on the term slander.
IF I WERE TO SLANDER SOMEONE IT WOULD MEAN THAT MY STATMENTS ARE FALSE. IN THIS CASE I MAKING STATMENTS THAT ARE TRUE.

IF YOU HAVE NOT READ IN FULL I WILL TELL YOU AGAIN THAT I AM A LAWYER...WHICH MEANS I AM AN EXPERT ON FINDING OUT THE TRUTH.


Libel and Slander terminology
"Libel", "slander", and "defamation" are commonly used as synonyms in ordinary language in Britain and Ireland. In some jurisdictions, like the United States, defamatory communication in writing is termed "libel" while one made via the spoken word is termed "slander". However, because the underlying distinction is between permanent and transient communications, some jurisdictions regard all defamatory communications (even spoken statements) broadcast on radio or television as "libel". Both acts share a common legal history, although they may be treated differently under some legal systems.

According to the American and English Encyclopedia of Law, a libel is a malicious defamation expressed either by writing or printing or by signs, pictures, effigies or the like; tending to blacken the memory of one who is dead, or to impeach the honesty, integrity, virtue or reputation, or to publish the natural or alleged defects of one who is alive, thereby exposing him to public hatred, contempt, ridicule or obloquy; or to cause him to be avoided or shunned or to injure him in his office, business or occupation.


Excuses
Even if a statement is derogatory, there are circumstances in which such statements are permissible in law.


Truth
In many, though not all, legal systems, statements presented as fact must be false to be defamatory. Proving to be true is often the best defense against a prosecution for libel. Statements of opinion which cannot be proven true or false will likely need to apply some other kind of defense.

In some systems, however, truth alone is not a defense. It is also necessary in these cases to show that there is a well founded public interest in the specific information being widely known, and this may be the case even for public figures.
 
Wes,

I have to agree with you. This is wierd as hell.

What I am gathering is most posts say he is a great guy. I would bet he is a good friend. Sounds nice enough.

What bothers me is the fact that people got information on the phone for free and that is what makes him a great guy. How would you folks feel about whatever, if you did not, or have not, gained something or stand to gain something more in the future? If you had never heard of this guy or any other guy in the same boat you would all be ready to tar and feather. I have seen it a hundred times here. Does MM longevity count for something?

As I look back over the years it is unbelievable what has happened to hunting in general. People are "privatizing" public lands and resources for personal gain. I guess I could be nice to hopefully get free information? That is wrong, plastic, and ass kissing at its finest.
 
dude you are the_______ you have been double standard...why dont you go back and read you threads. I would be happy to meet you somewhere and you can run your mouth to my face
 
"IF YOU HAVE NOT READ IN FULL I WILL TELL YOU AGAIN THAT I AM A LAWYER...WHICH MEANS I AM AN EXPERT ON FINDING OUT THE TRUTH."

safarikid74,
That explains everything.
ismith
 
what??? that I went to school and passed a BAR exam and that this country gave me that. Or that I graduated from Cornell Law.

You are the one that doesnt know what the term slander means. why dont you go study instead of ragging on me for telling the truth
 
yes i did...why dont you call your lawyer

you are acting like one by back stepping and by protecting the "nice guy" you know the friend that stole from you
 
Safari
You're getting yourself worked up for nothing. There are some of us who appreciate knowing about these things and ther are others who will attack you for making us aware of it. A good comparison would be when the rape victom is attacked in defence of the rapist.
Wes
 
thanks wes. you are right. it just pisses me off when guys protect someone that is a thief
 
safarikid74,
I dont know Deerking, or Darner, and truthfully I dont give a rats ass what they did. Why? Because its not my job to care, and stirring the pot on MM wont do anyone one bit of good. What Id really like to know, and im sure im not alone on this, is who you really are and why you felt it necessary to hide your true identity? What do you stand to gain by slandering someone on the internet? Once again, I am not defending anyone on this site for any reason, I am just wondering who the hell you are to pass judgement on anyone else? If they are found guilty they will be punished.
ismith

IT IS YOUR JOB TO CARE. YOUR TAX DOLLARS FUND OUR WILDLIFE.

AND YES IT WILL DO YOU GOOD TO CARE. POSTING THIS MESSAGE WAS TO BRING IT OUT...SO IT WOULDNT HAPPEN AGAIN.

SOMEONE STOLE FROM US SOOOO I AM PISSED OFF
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-17-06 AT 01:04PM (MST)[p]i dont post much here anymore not because of the people just havent. i have been on mm for a long time now, and i will tell you this. jeff has helped alot of people out. he has taken lots and lots of great pictures and shared them here with me and you.now before i can place judgement on anybody i would like to here it from the horses mouth as someone said. or read an official paper on it. but if he has poached then all respect went right out the door for him.. i have no respect for someone who would break the laws like that on purpose.. and for all those who say well thats ok he was a good guy he helped me then you are just as quilty they should hang you and him by the balls but before you get youre panties in a wad re-read my post i am not going to pass judgement until i hear the truth until then just let it go. but if there is something more to the story than we are hearing or if someone is putting false statememtns out in the air just to try and rub salt in a guys wound then lord have pitty on youre soul cause youre ass will be jeffs...........just my 2 cents. ok i have big shoulders let the ripping begin...
 
I dont want to stir the pot anymore but....did you guys know that the easter bunny and santa are not real.
 

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