What can I do about this???

A

Arch

Guest
Hello guys i need some help. I have been hunting on my family's property for many years now. It is a paradise there is like one road threw the whole thing and thats the best thing about it. It is run by the united sportsman and is now a CWMU. I just talked with my my grandpa and he said that he recieved a phone call from an oil company and they told him that they were coming threw his property with a gas line and drilling for oil everywhere. And he tried to tell them that he didn't want them to and they said there is nothing you can do about it. None of the landowners up there want them to do this it could ruin all the water. The only water we have at our cabin is a spring that is below it and if they pump the water it could change the whole canyon. Im sure this would affect the deer and elk herds and plus they make roads where ever they please. I do not think this is right so i was wondering if any of you could help. Like my grandpa said "so much for it being a free country"

Thanks, ARCH
 
If you dont have the mineral rights then you are screwed. The oil and gas companies will pay you for damages, they get to determine what the damages are though.
 
The real crappy thing is that currently Oil companies are finding oil all over Utah now (for those who are following it). The sad thing is while they are striking oil all over the place they are cap'ing the wells and not pumping out most new finds. They are finding the oil while they have the big money coming in to find exploration and are just sitting on the oil until some future time when oil is much more $$$ per barrel.

And yea as stated above, if they own the mineral rights you cant stop them from putting in roads all over the place and drilling where they want. That will do a couple things, the rigs are NOISY themselves and will disrupt local wildlife... even when they bring in the "thump trucks" it will run most deer / elk well out of the area due to the noise. And once they actually hit oil they might not allow shooting around the site so even after they are gone there might be places you cant hunt.


-DallanC
 
Arch:

I would be extremely surprised if anyone owns the mineral rights to your family property other than your family. You first need to ask your grandpa if someone sold these rights. If he does not know, you need to immediately send a letter to the "oil company" demanding that it provide you with written proof that it holds the mineral rights. Unless it can show you a written document that transfers the mineral rights that has been signed by the landownerand recorded with the County Recorder's office, it can pound sand.

Even assuming that someone has sold the mineral rights, this does not give the owner of those rights (the "oil company")the right to enter your property at will and damage the surface of the land unreasonably. In addition, your family owns the water rights and the oil company cannotjust pump the water for its operations -- again, unless the oil company owns the water rights -- which I strongly doubt it does.

The company may be able to lay a gas line through your property, depending on the circumstances of the case. This would mean that the company would then have an easement (right of way) through your property. The company, however, will have to pay you for that easement and will have to repair all damage it does in laying the pipe -- even assuming that the circumstances allow them to do so.

The most important thing your family can do right now is immediately hire a good attorney to protect your interests. If you fail to do this, the company will ride roughshod all over you and take whatever it can. Feel free to shoot me a pm or email and I can provide a few names of attorneys that can help you out.
 
Arch

Unfortuanely, I don't know the ins-and-outs of the production fields and right-a-ways but, I did want to respond to DallanC's comment.

DallanC's comment;
"The sad thing is while they are striking oil all over the place they are cap'ing the wells and not pumping out most new finds. They are finding the oil while they have the big money coming in to find exploration and are just sitting on the oil until some future time when oil is much more $$$ per barrel."

If the oil companies are capping the wells, it's because the transportation system (pipes or trucks) may not yet available. Also, almost every refinery in the US has maxed out the amount of crude it can process. All the environmental laws created over the last few decades have made it econmically unfavorable to build new refineries. Plus, many refineries have been shut down for the same reason. Until more refining capacity becomes available or when certain crude production fields no longer produce, there is no need to begin pumping new wells, because there generally is no where to process this new crude and it is still cheaper to bring in crude from OPEC or other crude producing nations.

Yes, I work for an oil company at a refinery. So, go ahead and give me an ear full if you all want. I got an earfull from my local gas station just this weekend. It affects my pocketbook too.

Smokepole
 
>Yes, I work for an oil
>company at a refinery.
>So, go ahead and give
>me an ear full if
>you all want. I
>got an earfull from my
>local gas station just this
>weekend. It affects my
>pocketbook too.
>
>Smokepole

No complaints from me. Its something I currently find interesting and am happy to learn from more knowledgable people. Oil companies are thumping (seismic) / drilling the hell out of central utah atm and hitting lots of oil. They cap it off and move on. I dont doubt you are right about the infrastructure not being in place to handle the new finds. There was some major drilling going on very close to some property my dad has, hence my continued interest in the process.


-DallanC
 
I do know that central Utah was a wildcat dream come true. The major oil companies did not believe there was any recoverable oil there. The local refineries in Salt Lake are trying to process this crude when the infrastructure makes it available, because it is some good crude. They are actually backing out some of the less desirable crudes that are being piped in from other far reaching locations. This area is one place where newly discovered crude is cost effective (in the US) to produce and process compared to the coastal refineries.

Unfortunately, the seismic exploration and ultimately the roads and tanks/pipeing infrastructure is disruptive to both the environment and land owners for some period of time.

Smokepole
 
Yes it is in nine mile canyon and i believe some how the government took the mineral rights away many years ago. But im not sure if that is for all the different families.

ARCH
 
Those big ole oil trucks haulin ass on the Anthro side going to Myton really piss me off. I feel your pain Arch.
 
Have your Grandpa go to the recorder's office and get a copy of the orignal assignment of mineral rights for the property. Depending on what has been done in the area in the past, there may also be actual leases on file that govern the use of properties subject to the mineral rights. In my experience, the oil companies are very adept at bullying landowners and significantly overstating there rights. The key is to get to the bottam of what those rights are and hold them to it. Years ago, I helped my cousin who was fignting with the oil company to retain all the pipes and equipment including jacks that had been left on the property longer than the lease allowed. It benefitted him to the tune of many thousands of dollars. Know your rights and don't be afraid to stand up to these guys--remember, they are just like the bullies you dealt with in grade school.
 
One other thing... Make sure your family has filed on and own the water rights to that spring that feeds your family's cabin. Once that spring has been "proven" then you can use it as leverage for protection of that area on your property. Of course you need to measure the flow and record it every so often to see if the drilling is effecting the spring. I would also record "critical" wildlife areas on your property and use those (if they exist) as leverage to keep them from drilling on certain areas. (Call the DWR and ask them to transplant sage grouse on your ranch, haha) I am not an expert on this, but the research I have done shows that the oil companies do have some restrictions on their exploration. They do not have a free pass to drill all over the property.

Bottom line is they will drill if they want to. Be respectful in your meetings with them or they will explore all over out of spite.
 
There Isnt much you can do, It wouldnt hurt to get a lawer, but your better off to work with them instead of agenst them, it will help out in the long run, I work first hand with some of the gas companes, and the blm,(not in that exact area) most of the actual people arnt bad, there just doing there job, so your better off to get in good with them and all though they will still be on your property they will work with you, to try and keep you happy.



MM Member since 1999. Jake H
 
My buddy has 700 acres in Pleasant Valley and they currently have 4 wells on the property. The deer, for the most part, have moved out. The elk, however, have moved in. It hasn't affected the ducks and geese. I was under the impression that in nearly all cases the state owns all mineral rights in utah, could be wrong though.

Andy
 
Make sure whatever aggreements you get with these guys are in writing and make sure there's something in there about reclaiming the landscape once they're done. Sometimes these guys will accomodate the landowner to keep them happy, such as putting roads where you need them, stock tank setups, limiting their access times to avoid spooking livestock, etc., road-dust management, new fencing, ---do some in-depth thinking on this and get the agreements on paper with respect to timelines ASAP. If you need advice, contact the BLM (who administers federal mineral rights under private property) and ask them to help you. Get yourself informed fast. Check the Northern Plains Resource Council www site for ideas, keep in mind they are probably talking worst case scenarios and methane extraction. There's a chance you can come out ahead on this, and a few years from now, be sitting pretty. Ditto on the water rights issues as mentioned previously.
 
One more thing, glad you are being proactive and educating yourself. I have been on many split-estate on-sites and very rarely is the surface owner present. I would think they would want to be involved in the decisions for new roads, pipeline routes and rehab seed mixes.
 

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