Arizona 12A Rife Deer Permits

utaz · May 4, 2006

Does anyone know why the bab unit 12A has 500 less permits than last year? Drought conditions? Too many shot last year? I was just wondering.

Thanks,

UTAZ

YukonDall · May 4, 2006

I BELIEVE F&G RECIEVED ALOT OF FLACK THAT/THAT MANY TAGS IS JUST PLAIN OVER PRESSURE ON THE HERD...NOT TO MENTION A ZOO DURING THE SEASON. I UNDERSTAND THEY GOT INPUT/PRESSURE FROM EVERY POSSIBLE ANGLE/INTEREST GROUP....BEING A RESOURCE IT CANT BE ABUSED. YD.

wetmule · May 4, 2006

G&F wants to get the buck doe ratios back in line with the Alternative Mule Deer Management Plan. Meaning - the buck doe ratio in Kaibab right now is low and they want to get it back up by reducing the buck harvest.

moneyman · May 5, 2006

I don't think it is G&F that wants to get the ratio back. It was the hunters that demanded it. Probably why the G&F decided to up the Coues tags, to recoup lost $$$ from fewer Mule Deer tags.

BTW, the fees they planning on charging next year are ridiculous.

utaz · May 5, 2006

Thanks for the feedback, I agree the buck ratio isn't anything like it used to be. I just wanted to make sure the reason was just a management issue. It's important to keep the quality of deer, number of deer and buck ratio in order. I may be a little bias but the ?Bab? is one of the last great frontiers, we need to keep it that way and get it back to what it used to be.

Thanks again,

utaz

wetmule · May 5, 2006

I don't recall any great backlash at least recently or at the commission meeting over the number of buck tags on the Kaibab. I do recall an overall consensus WTF are they doing after the proclamation came out last year showing 1000 buck tags on the early hunt. They cut the buck tags in half this year and I think everyone agrees that it was necessary and a good move. The major beef and contention has been the ridiculous number of antlerless permits that they have been offering over the last 6-7+ years, and they finally reduced that number this year to 100 for juniors participants. Their survey data shows that the buck doe ratio is declining and has fallen below the preferred level, thus the reduction of buck permits. It makes sense that the Buck doe ratios would go in the dumper after you offer tons of permits. I'm not even a wizard or don't own a crystal ball but even I could have told you the outcome of that move.

LVTHNT · May 5, 2006

I thought it may be helpful to see that 1000 tags on the early Kaibab west side hunt is not all that uncommon. As you can see from the table below, since 1993 (that's as far back as I have at my desk presently) actually this is pretty typical.

12A West early number of tags and kill success %?s summary by year-
Year # tags Kill %
2006- 500 ??
2005- 1000 45%
2004- 500 48%
2003- 300 32%
2002- 635 26%
2001- 1000 76%
2000- 1000 36%
1999- 1000 51%
1998- 850 54%
1997- 950 50%
1996- 1000 48%
1995- 1000 48%
1994- 1150 48%
1993- 1150 45%

The AG&F create tag recommendations on the buck to doe ratios and try to keep the ratios within certain limits. Once the buck to doe ratio falls they have two choices, either kill some does or reduce the number buck tags and buck harvest. There has been a pretty load cry to stop the doe hunts so the deer herd would increase so they have no other option to keep the buck to doe ratio up but to decrease the number of buck tags.

The Kaibab is a very special place that I have been lucky enough to spend some time over the years during various seasons. It is hard for me to believe that the numbers of deer on the Kaibab are at the current carrying capacity per the AG&F, as I have seen many more animals on the range that currently exists. I would hope that they could increase the buck to do ratio, and increase the number of overall deer. The winter range of course is the limiting factor and I think there are differences of opinion on what the deer numbers should be on the winter range.

But one thing for certain is that the bucks are fun to look at on the Kaibab, I just hope they can continue to manage the herd to keep it going.