AZ Deer

tracker12 · May 24, 2006

I have a freind that wants to start apply for AZ. I have been doing the point system in CO, NV and UT. Is it worth getting into AZ as well. How long can I expect to go before I draw a rifle tag in the State.. Also how is the archery hunting up North. I seem to be donating so much $$$ these days I do not want ot get into another loosing case. Thanks

HullinPhx · May 24, 2006

It all depends on the area's you apply for. Some units have higher draw odds that others. Archery Season is good for Arizona, you can buy tags over the counter. Not all area's are open for archery which sucks.

Good Luck

John

sremim · May 24, 2006

Yes you should get in. It could be this year, it could be next year, or it could be 15 years before you draw a tag. If just depends on how lucky you are and where you apply. This year you probably wont get a good tag up north, but who knows. It's hard to say how long it will take to draw a tag, it depends on where and what you put in for. The archery hunting up north can be excellent or horrible. It just depends on how much work you are willing to do. How far north are you talking about? I'm assuming north of GC. Archery tags are OTC, for now.

tooele · May 30, 2006

Sure you should get in but realize that the way they have it set up right now for non-residents you will not draw a premium unit unless you already have high points. In your lifetime will you draw a premium unit? maybe but not for 15 or 20 years unless things change. If you want the statistical mumbo jumbo then pm me. Once again some of these guys may try to say Arizona is a lottery and everyone has a chance. It isn't true for the premium units. They will have given the quota of non-resident tags out well before the guy without the points even gets a chance.

Good luck.

T

sremim · May 30, 2006

Maybe, maybe not. NOBODY knows yet. And if it does happen like that, what makes you think they wont change the system back to the way it was?

dwalton · May 30, 2006

Tracker12,

If you are just starting out, I would skip Arizona. Yes, you could draw (statistically speaking), but there are so many people ahead of you it would take several hunting generations to pass before you ever made it high enough on the points list to make a difference. Non-resident points in Arizona rate right up there with Wyoming sheep points and Colorado elk points as being almost completely worthless. Unless you are at the top pool of all three of these, the premium units are almost impossible to draw (statistically speaking). For what it's worth, I have 5 points, and have decided to bail out of Arizona.

Also, you need to remember that the prices in AZ will go up next year to 150+ for the license. The ceiling on the deer tag is $1,200, so look for the costs to rise yearly.

If you're building points in CO and NV, I'd say you're on the right track to finding a monster muley. Good luck!

tracker12 · May 31, 2006

How about that archery hunt in the strip area. Can it be productive. Judging by the odds I think I will skip the rifle hunt but the archery hunt which is OTC looks like it may be worth while exploring. Am I restricked on hunting dates in what would be a premium rifle area.

HullinPhx · May 31, 2006

The Archery hunt can be productive. Just know that there will be a lot of people up in unit 12. When I say a lot of people I mean A LOT of people

John

BigPig · May 31, 2006

Bowhunting the strip? You must be a glutton for punishment. Yes the huge bucks are there but the densities are very, very low. Can you handle hunting for a week without seeing deer?

tracker12 · Jun 1, 2006

Probably not. My buddy was told that you could hunt this area and see large deer every day. Not that you would be able to get on them but that stalks were pretty regular. Now I find out the the guy has no hunted that area for 12 years. Seems like my friends friend has been feeding him a little BS. Oh well.

HullinPhx · Jun 1, 2006

12 years and few big droughts have changed the North Rim a lot.

offroad_tycoon · Jun 1, 2006

If you are up to some fun hunting, hit the desert mountains south of the grand canyon. I have seen some MONSTERS down here in the desert during the December archery season. The deer are not high in density...but find a doe during the rut and the bucks wont be far behind. You may even be able to get into some good striper fishing if your lucky.

Heat · Jun 1, 2006

>Tracker12,
>
>If you are just starting out,
>I would skip Arizona.
>Yes, you could draw (statistically
>speaking), but there are so
>many people ahead of you
>it would take several hunting
>generations to pass before you
>ever made it high enough
>on the points list to
>make a difference. Non-resident
>points in Arizona rate right
>up there with Wyoming sheep
>points and Colorado elk points
>as being almost completely worthless.
> Unless you are at
>the top pool of all
>three of these, the premium
>units are almost impossible to
>draw (statistically speaking). For
>what it's worth, I have
>5 points, and have decided
>to bail out of Arizona.
>
>
>Also, you need to remember that
>the prices in AZ will
>go up next year to
>150+ for the license.
>The ceiling on the deer
>tag is $1,200, so look
>for the costs to rise
>yearly.
>
>If you're building points in CO
>and NV, I'd say you're
>on the right track to
>finding a monster muley.
>Good luck!

There are no premium hunts next year or any year. $1200 is way off. They're not even coming close to charging that much for an elk tag. Non-resident sheep is the only thing in that neighborhood. Need to check your facts bro!

Nick

dwalton · Jun 1, 2006

Nick,

For the sake of this discussion, everyone here is referring to the areas north of the GC as "premium". This thread and several others have already hashed out the issue of the non-resident draw odds in these, so-called, "premium areas".

The issue of fees is fairly straight-forward also. The Arizona legislature has approved statutory caps on the amount the AZG&F can charge. These fees are $188 for a non-resident license, $3000 for sheep, and $1200 for deer (the full list of statutory limits is found on their website). Whether the AZG&F will approach these caps remains to be seen, but history has shown when you give a government agency a limit to charge, it won't be long before they will do it.

So, "Bro", I do have my facts straight. Bets of luck to you in the draws!

Boskee · Jun 1, 2006

Mr Walton any increases have to be approved by the legislature. The permit cost for nonresidents next year is $232.75 for deer and $1407.50 for sheep after the increase plus license of $151.25. There is merit to your point about the proposed ceiling but that will take time. The legislature doesn't approve these increases quite as liberally as you may believe. Your point is well taken and we agree on the fact that the politicians will usually run it up as quickly as possible but you must remember that these increases are tied to increases for the residents as well and that makes them a little less inclined to press the pedal to the metal so to speak. We all know that the costs will escalate over time as you stated but hopefully it can be done in such a way to make it still affordable for the average guy. Good luck to you in the draw.

Heat · Jun 2, 2006

The max on fees for NRs is $325.

Let me help you with some references. Here is the language from Article 17 of the Arizona Revised Statutes:

22. Deer tag class A, validates class F, G, J, K, M or N license for the taking of deer, resident, one hundred fifty dollars; nonresident, one thousand two hundred dollars. Deer tag class B, validates class F, G, J, K, M or N, for the taking of deer, resident, fifty dollars; nonresident, three hundred twenty-five dollars. Not more than five per cent of the total deer tags issued in any calendar year shall be class A tags.

Now here is the link to the Commission meeting minutes where this is discussed:

http://www.azgfd.gov/inside_azgfd/documents/120905CommMtgMinutes.pdf

Basically Bob Hernbrode made a motion and Melton seconded that stated that the Commission vote to not include the Premium or Class A hunts in the fee structure. That motion passed unanimously. There is no Premium or Class A hunt stucture and therefore no $1200 cap on non resident fees. "Deer tag class B, validates class F, G, J, K, M or N, for the taking of deer, resident, fifty dollars; nonresident, three hundred twenty-five dollars".

I hope this helps you understand where I was coming from, Mr. D Walton, Sir.

Best of luck to you too.

Nick