Utah - Wasatch & Manti elk herds down?

[Wapiti]

I've been hunting the Manti and Wasatch units for many years now and I must say I'm disappointed in the decreasing numbers of elk. The decrease seams to have been increasing since 2003. That year I had a L.E. bull tag on the Wasatch and a good friend had a tag on the Manti. I must say the overall herd numbers were incredible back then. Ever since we've see fewer and fewer animals not just bulls but cows.

I just got back from a week of hard hunting on the Manti and I must say I've never before struggled to find cows. We did find a number of bulls but the cows were far and few between. Places that in years past have held elk didn't.

Is the F&G issuing too many cow tags? I know the bull tags have dramatically increase since 2002 for both units, have the cow tags increased significantly as well?

Does the F&G figure since there harvesting more bulls that more cows should be harvested as well?

The F&G says there's an overabundance of mature bulls so more tags can be issued providing more opportunity for hunters, O.K. fine. Now a few years go bye and suddenly that overabundance of bulls begins to declined, however, the number of tags continues to be maintained at a high number or increased. At the same time since more bulls are being harvest the F&G figures more cows need to be harvested right, I say wrong answer. Now I'm no biologist but if a high number of bulls are going to be annually harvested then the number of cows needs to remain at a high level in order to repopulated the bulls being harvested each year. If the number of cows is significantly decreased then you are no longer going to be able to maintain a high number of bulls and the overall herd decreases in size. Which to me and many other hunters I've talked to, seems where we are at now.

I understand there's a balance to be maintained for the health of the herd but I believe the Utah F&G is doing a poor job at managing the herd numbers for these 2 particular units. I can't speak for other units because I haven't spend enough time on them.

What do you think?

 

[Horseguy]

Amen to what you just said. The Nebo unit is the same way the numbers have been decimated. There are still some animals up there but nothing like there was a few years ago. I personally wouldn't even be excited to have a tag for what they are calling big bulls. And places I used to watch dozens of cows and calves only have a few. I hope they change something in a hurry or we will be out there glassing moo cows and a few does.

 

[ELKOHOLIC]

The week before the bow hunt I seen the biggest heard of cows I have ever seen on the Manti or anywhere else for that matter. I have seen quite a few overall this year. As far as the overall numbers...I guess it's possible there down.

 

[never_satisfied]

I spend 2-3 days a week from July to November on the manti
And let me assure you the numbers are way down

Late season rifle hunt- BAD IDEA
extended archery -BAD IDEA
Doubling the LE bull elk tags-BAD IDEA

In the end they want to drop the age of the elk from 7 1/2 to 4 1-2
It just doesn't make any sense to spend 20 years building and managing a area for trophy class animals and then completely sending it to the toilet

I guess we can only blame are self's in the end
We all need to do a better job keeping up on the changes are states want to do. And fight for what is best for are big game animals and are future hunting interest.If we don't the states dissensions will always be based on money

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

I totally agree on the Nebo. Those numbers are waaaay down. I haven't spent that much time on the Manti so I really can't say there. As far as the Wasatch numbers, I haven't seen the decline in numbers like you talk about. From what I've seen the numbers are up. I do think that the bull numbers are down a bit but you also have to take into consideration how many people are out and about. We talk about these elk like they are stupid and just standing out there in plain site for all to see. In 2003 we had half the hunters out there pounding the trees and canyons for bulls. Now these elk are spotted and hunted relentlessly. I wouldn't expect them to stay out in plain site. I don't see the numbers of elk from the road that I used to but I have sure run into a lot of elk when I've hiked back into places. I think the pressure we are putting on them has forced them to be smarter and more stealthy. JMO though so take it for what it's worth.



It's always an adventure!!!

 

[Silentstalker]

I cant comment on the Nebo or the Manti as I have not been on them for about 5 years.

On the Wasatch I completely disagree with ya. Have the elk disappeared? I say no way. You cant throw a rock without hitting a cow some days. If your struggling seeing elk I would say move! I have noticed them getting displaced from historical areas due to increased tags and pressure but to say the herds are down IMO I don't think so. I just came off the Wasatch from a very successful archery hunt with my Bro in law. The highest end bulls are tough to come by and any great bull is a tall order but they are there. If you are not seeing them, keep at it. You will!

Perhaps there are areas suffering but the ones I frequent, are doing quite well.

 

[utahbigbull]

I can't speak for the Wasatch to start with. I have not been on the Manti this year due to time spent on another unit I drew my LE elk for but I can say that last year was one of the best years for elk I seen on the Manti. Three of the biggest bulls I have seen on that mountain were all from last year. They may be declining to the north and / or south of my area, I don't know, but I have seen no imact in my honey holes (YET).

 

[swbuckmaster]

You kidding me! Are some of you guys saying we need to cut cut tags again cause you cant find elk? If so I have to question your hunting abilities!

The only unit in this state where we probably could cut tags for elk is on the Nebo. There are so many elk on the other units its unbelievable to me someone can come on here and actually say they cant find elk.

There are no big bucks in Utah! LOL

 

[BIG]

I archery hunted the Manti with a general tag and saw more elk than I usually do. Had a herd of about 100 come by me on opening morning.

 

[never_satisfied]

>You kidding me! Are some
>of you guys saying we
>need to cut cut tags
>again cause you cant find
>elk? If so I have
>to question your hunting abilities!
>
>
>The only unit in this state
>where we probably could cut
>tags for elk is on
>the Nebo. There are so
>many elk on the other
>units its unbelievable to me
>someone can come on here
>and actually say they cant
>find elk.
>
>

>
>There are no big bucks in
>Utah! LOL

The problime is not finding elk
The problime is finding the quality bull elk from years past.Say what you want but I now first hand it is not as good.

And also clue me in when they dropped the number of elk tags on the manti.Not only have the added to the LE elk tags they opened it to the extended archery and stated the late season hunt.

My hunting abilities are just fine numbers don't lie

 

[swbuckmaster]

maybe you didnt get the memo
they increased the age objective on every unit in the state.

that means unneeded tag cuts are coming!



It is too bad you guys dont get the whole picture. sure you might have seen loads of big bulls in years earlier.

Why?
because the heard was under herd objective and we could only hunt cows cause no one wanted to issue more bull tags. So you had an abundance of bulls. more bulls means you can select from a larger pool to kill a larger bull. Its not rocket science!

Well you cant kill the cows off or all you have left is bulls and despite what the dudes in San Francisco want you to believe bulls breading bulls doesn't create more bulls. So they had to increase spike tags and increase bull tags. Yes it had an effect on the number of bulls you will see today.

It will never be the same as it was a few years ago. In fact it is only going to get worse. Why because they are going to cut big bull tags cause they increased the age objective on all the units. So they have to kill bulls and cows to keep herd under or at objective. So they are going to keep issuing more spike tags until the numbers line up.

The problem is when you don't let a bull reach its genetic potential before you kill it you wont ever know what it is going to look like. killing spikes also gives you a smaller pool to select from. kind of like a 1a school and a 5a school. So shooting a higher quality animal is less likely.

So in order to find the bull your after you are going to have to scout the entire unit instead of looking in one canyon!

There are no big bucks in Utah! LOL