CO Boys, Peashooter, Buckspy ???

[Founder]

In your time battling the CO voucher stuff, have you heard any talk about why CO went with so many 4th season hunts? Also, do they feel now that the draw is over that the points banking thing helped with point creep?
Do you guys worry that with your deer herd coming on strong that the number of applicants will continue to skyrocket, as our LE elk applicants have here in Utah?

Many of the hunts in Colorado have real high success rate, which is good. BUT, it's not that good if it takes 6-8 years to draw the better units.

It's apparent by the lack of leftovers this year that people are really catching on a jumping into your draw system too. Any plans to keep that under control? Is CDOW considering offering less high success hunts with few hunters and more lower success hunts with more hunters??

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com

 

[Peashooter]

Founder,
From what I've heard at various meetings, the basis for the additional 4th season hunts was based mostly on buck/doe ratios getting above target levels in those areas. All the areas around me already had 4th season hunts, so I was for it, hoping that it may take some pressure off of the areas that I hunt by enticing hunters into switching areas to get in the new hunts. Judging by this year that didnt work. I am unable to attend Commisson meetings during the summer due to work, so I have not heard what their official oppinion is regarding whether or not banking accomplished anything for them. My feeling is that nobody will know untill after the draw next year. It seems to me that between more people applying, and draw strategies with banking, points needed to draw were raised by at least 1, and up to 3 in the areas that I am familiar with.

The DOW seems to be more concerned with the preference point creep than the increased numbers of hunters (to them more hunters=more money). I figure that in a couple years there will be no leftovers, and hopefully elk will be draw instead of OTC. I dont want to have to draw an elk tag any more than anyone else, but untill we go that way, good bulls will be a rarity, and orange and atv covered hills will be the norm.

I'm sure that the good unit 8 point thought is very real Brian. Its already well on its way. I have not heard any of their plans on how to address this directly, but I hope to heck they have one.

 

[moneyman]

The more people that want to hunt the better. Unless you're an anti.

 

[peanut]

Back when the current system was implemented, the DOW set some guidelines for the 4th season hunts. They said that when populations were at or above objective and buck/doe ratios were over objectives, then that unit or DAU would have a 4th season.
Haven't heard anything whether or not the point banking affected point creep. I personally think that most people with nearly enough points to draw the quality units did not spend a portion of them to draw a tag in another unit. I might be wrong though, only time will tell.
Seasons are closing in, best wishes to all.
peanut

 

[sneak]

Brian,

The 4th season deal in Colorado had several stipulations attached when they adopted the new system a few years ago. One of the key "triggers" is when a Data Analysis Unit (DAU, which is usually a group of GMUs) shows a post-season buck:doe ratio that is above 25:100. There is no guideline for age-structure of the buck component, just the buck:doe ratio. If a DAU pops up with 26:100 on the January count, then a 4th season is triggered for the following year.

There was a lot of debate about what ratio should trigger a 4th season, and whether there should be some consideration for the age-structure among the bucks as well, but unfortunately, the DOW doesn't have funds available to collect that kind of detailed data on all the DAU's in the state every year. Most DAUs are flown every other year, at best, and the population models are tweaked to meet what managers feel they are seeing on the ground.

The other problem is that they collect all this data from aircraft, which numerous peered-reviewed studies have shown to be seriously flawed. In other words, sampling populations via aircraft generally misses 33-50% of all animals in a population, and is particularly skewed when sampling males due to behavioral differences and habitat selection. They have sightability indexes based on cover, weather, the presence or absence of snow, etc, and all of these have big effects on the accuracy of any given flight. So when we get perfect conditions and they "see" enough bucks, whether they be yearlings, mid-aged or mature bucks, to hit the magic 26:100 ratio, then we have a 4th season, regardless of whether that unit has ever even come close to such a ratio in the past.

Definitely an imperfect system, but it's what we have to work with until the next 5-year season structure planning begins.

As for the points-banking, I haven't received any official word from trustworthy sources in the DOW to know what they think yet. I know in my hunter-contacts, there has been mixed results and opinions. It definitely appears that the banking really took pressure off some units, but it seems others may have picked up more demand and added to the point creep. I'm not sure, but it may turn out that we just re-arranged some draw odds among units, but didn't really tackle the main problem.

 

[ColoradoOak]

sneak,

Actually, a DAU has to have a buck:doe ratio at the DAU objective and averaging 25:100 over a three year period. A technicality...your points are still valid.

Oak

 

[cohntr6]

Tag numbers change from year to year as well. That could be the reason for the lack of leftovers this year.
Jeff