Washington Wildfires/Request to Reopen Entiat North Fork

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Below is an email I received from our drop camp outfitter (Dale at Icicle Outfitters) for this year's high hunt. At the end of this post is an email and letter I am sending to WDFW today. If you support the opening of the Entiat North Fork to address the closure of the Entiat Valley due to the Tinpan wildfire, please either copy my email and send it on, or send your own email to the below addresses. Any assistance would be appreciated because I really want to hunt the Entiat North Fork on 9/15.

EMAIL FROM ICICLE OUTFITTERS:

Dear Hunters,

The Tinpan wildland fire has been burning for just over a month in the upper Entiat Valley. It is a low intensity burn (that will be good for the mule deer habitat) but the upper Entiat Valley will be closed to the public during the September High Hunt. It has been proposed that the WDFW provide for a High Hunt in the Entiat North Fork. We support that idea. The North Fork was part of the High Hunt for 30 years, it includes 36 miles of trail which range from 4000 feet to 8245 feet in elevation, it is prime mule deer summer range.

The purpose for re-opening the North Fork for the 2006 season include these:
Providing a High Hunt in the Entiat will reduce the number of displaced hunters who are likely to choose to hunt in the southern part of the Clark GMU 244. That part of the hunt is on trails that are already heavily used by hunters and non-hunters; adding more will not be a positive.
The Forest Service managers support the re-opening of the North Fork.
Local businesses, who benefit from recreational activities, support the hunt.
The mule deer that summer in the North Fork have not experienced a High Hunt for 15 years; hunting the North Fork (while the Entiat herd relax) will be good. There is no biological reason to avoid hunting the North Fork.
It will be a positive thing to see the WDFW cooperate with the Forest Service. WDFW inertia can be a bad thing. Give them a push.
It is our understanding that forest managers have talked with Director Jeff Koenings and Region 2 Director Dennis Beich. It appears that the WDFW will just "let things ride". Perhaps hearing from you will help. Local people in the Entiat Valley are also letting their voices be heard in support of the hunt. Below are some WDFW people to contact.

WDFW Director Jeff Koenings [email protected] 800-833-6388 or mail to him at Department of Fish & Wildlife, 600 Capitol Way N, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
WDFW Region 2 Director Dennis Beich, 1550 Alder Street NW, Ephrata, WA 98823 or phone 509-754-4624
WDFW Wenatchee Office, 3860 Chelan Highway N, Wenatchee, WA 98801-9607 phone 662-0452
WDFW Commissioners [email protected] (there are 9 of them; this address should reach all of them). Commissioner Jerry Gutzwiler is from Wenatchee and may enjoy hearing from you.
Feel free to forward this message to anyone who cares. WDFW inertia can be difficult to overcome but your voice of support may help.

P.S. Most of you know that Entiat hunters will have camps available in the Clark or Alpine parts of the wilderness. This effort is to save a hunt in the Entiat. If we can get that area re-opened, many Entiat camps will go into the North Fork.
Thanks,




Bruce and Sandy Wick, owners, www.icicleoutfitters.com
P.O. Box 322 , Leavenworth, WA 98826
1-800-497-3912 or 509-784-1145 Ranch
509-763-3647 Lake Wenatchee Riding Stable (May 15 - Sept.)
509-669-1518 Icicle Valley/Leavenworth Riding Stable (June 11-Sept. 11)


EMAIL FROM FISHUNTER:

Dear WDFW Director Jeff Koenings, WDFW Commissioners, and Commissioner Jerry Gutzwiler:
I have hunted Washington with the same hunting partners for over 30 years. Myself and a group of 4 of these hunters have been drop camping the high hunt in the upper Entiat Valley for years, and we were scheduled to do the same Drop Camp this year. In light of the Tinpan wildland fire which has been burning for just over a month in the upper Entiat Valley, it appears certain that the Cottonwood trailhead will be closed and we will not be able to make the high hunt. I understand that you are presently considering a proposal that the WDFW provide for a High Hunt in the Entiat North Fork. I support that idea and respectfully request that you adopt an emergency order to allow a high hunt in the Entiat North Fork. As you know, the North Fork was part of the High Hunt for 30 years, and includes 36 miles of trail which range from 4000 feet to 8245 feet in elevation.



The public benefit from re-opening the North Fork for the 2006 season are many:

Providing a High Hunt in the Entiat will reduce the number of displaced hunters who are likely to choose to hunt in the southern part of the Clark GMU 244. That part of the hunt is on trails that are already heavily used by hunters and non-hunters; adding more will not promote the public interest.
The Forest Service managers support the re-opening of the North Fork.
Local businesses, who benefit from recreational activities, support the hunt.
The mule deer that summer in the North Fork have not experienced a High Hunt for 15 years; hunting the North Fork (for just 2006 as a result of the Tinpan wildfire) will benefit the public interest in wildlife management. There is no biological reason for WDFW to not allow a high hunt on the North Fork.
The public interest will be promoted by this joint agency effort between WDFW and the Forest Service, which would further promote additional intra-agency cooperation in the future.
You now face a unique opportunity to serve the public by opening the North Fork for a high hunt, and I would respectfully request that you take immediate action to take advantage of this opportunity. I understand that forest managers have talked with Director Jeff Koenings and Region 2 Director Dennis Beich. Please provide your candid consideration to this proposal, and work with the forest managers to provide for a High Hunt in the Entiat North Fork.

If you have any questions, or wish to discuss this further, please contact me. I would be happy to provide testimony in any public hearing or meeting on this subject. If it would be helpful to speak with your Assistant Attorney General regarding this matter, or anyone else for that matter, please provide me with their contact information and I would be happy to do so.



Sincerely,



Walter H. Olsen, Jr.
Olsen Law Firm PLLC
604 W. Meeker Street, Suite 101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: (253) 813-8111
office fax: (253) 813-8133
page/voicemail: (509) 267-4278
personal fax: (509) 267-4278
 
Opening the North Fork should be a NO BRAINER for the wdfw. Shouldn't the wildlife managers be looking for ways to provide recreational hunts for our people?

I agree that the Entiat is hunter friendly. The rest of the Clark unit is used more by nonhunters. We will be in the Spider Meadows; we hope you Entiat guys go to the North Fork rather than camping next to us.
 
Thanks guys. We expect the WDFW and Forest Service to get their collective heads together and agree that providing a High Hunt in the North Fork (as it was for 30 years) is the correct thing to do. The Forest Service clearly sees the need while the WDFW is a little slower to act.

We hope the Entiat North Fork is not allowed to become an us against them issue. If so, the Forest Service and hunters would clearly loose. The WDFW has all of the power.

After all, they got the permit drawings and raffle right didn't they????? Just kidding, Dale
 
Icicle, You are probably right; WDFW does have all of the power. I wish they would look for ways to cooperate with the Forest Service. They should look for ways to make recreation available rather than come up with bogus excusses to prevent us from hunting and fishing.
 
When you say the North Fork are you still inside the wilderness area or outside of it?
Shane
 
Shane, The Entiat North Fork is not designated wilderness but it is very high and is managed pretty much like wilderness (no motor bikes etc). It was part of the the High Hunt until 98 or 99 (error in dates published earlier). My first High Hunt buck came out of Grouse Creek in the North Fork in 62.

It would seem that the wildife managers would want to re-open it for the 2006 season (at least). I'm certain that they will but some decisions take longer than we like.

Dale
 
Thanks Dale. I would like to hunt Pugh Ridge on a high hunt. How far South are they proposing to open? Why did they remove it in the first place from the high hunt? It would spread the hunters out even if they kept it open in future years.
Shane
 
I don't think we ever got a reason for closing the North Fork. Pugh Ridge is right in the middle of it. Everything in the North Fork drainage would be open. We are getting some positive feedback from wildlife managers so things are looking good. There are several layers of management to work through so it doesn't happen over night. Maybe we will see you Pugh one of these times. Dale
 
I think it would be very irresponsible for the game department to allow this hunt to happen. The reason guy's would like to have this hunt is because the mature animals are so vulnerable at this time of the year in that area that it would be a slaughter. The game department is trying to manage this area and surrounding units these deer migrate through for mature bucks. This hunt could ruin their plan like the open archery
seasons did a few years back on the entiat. I also don't think people realize how small of an area the north fork really is. With people being able to drive to the hunting area and being so small the area would be a zoo. Another thing is the clients of outfitters won't have an enjoyable hunt with guys camped all around them. Also with the fire a few miles away it could easily jump the ridge and enter the north fork drainage. Another reason it shouldn't be allowed to take place is the archery hunters that usually hunt this area will be peeved because they use archery to be allowed to hunt this unit and how do you think they feel with a couple hundred guys in there with rifles. The high hunt in the North Fork was never brought up until now because people have hunts scheduled and money too make. I wish that the guys that are pushing this will quite being selfish and rethink this. I hope you guys will be responsible and do whats good for this herd because the game department often times doesn't. I hope guys quite pushing this proposal and have a quality high hunt next year, instead of having sh###y hunts in the upcoming years.
 
I don't buy Crabcreek's reasoning. The Entiat North Fork deer are the same herd that winter in the Entiat River. Hunting the Entiat doesn't distroy the mature buck management. Switching the High Hunt to the North Fork, while leaving the Entiat herd alone,won't hurt anything. The North Fork was open until just a few years ago and Entiat has always produced a lot of big old bucks. Substituting the North Fork for the Entiat is not ideal but it's sure a lot better than nothing. We hunted the North Fork until it closed and now we hunt a little corner out of Trinity. We don't need more Entiat Hunters in our area. I don't really care how someone gets to their camp. We take our own horses but sometimes we wish we were using an outfitter; sure cheaper than keeping these horses around all year.
 
What is referred to as the entiat herd is all the animals that migrate from all of the units above entiat like slide ridge, clark, and even deer that come over from the chiwawa side. The proposal is to substitute the high hunt into the North fork which is in slide ridge from clark unit which lies in the Glacier peak wilderness. So when your hunting in the north fork you really are hunting the entiat herd. The Entiat never used to produce quality animals in the 70's and 80's until they started cutting the seasons down.
 
This kind of forum is very subject to abuse. The fact is that the Entiat has always had big mature migratory bucks. Populations get knocked down by winter kill on occation but big bucks have always been a Chelan County draw. Following the servere winter of 68-69 combined with the winter range fire of 70 the herd numbers were down. That happened again in the late 80s and again in 96-97. The High Hunt has almost nothing to do with buck maturity. We are at a peak mature buck to doe ratio; that is why wdfw are offering so many late season permits. Providing the Entiat High Hunt will only affect those people who have enjoyed packing into the North Fork during the General Season. There are very few of them but I suspect that they may get their nose bent out of shape.
 
I agree with you 90%. Especially the part about your new proposed high hunt affecting the general season hunters who enjoy packing into the North fork. I'm one of the few. I do the high hunt in various locations, and preserve the tag into the general season Northfork if necessary passing up lots of Average Joe shooters waiting for a Tusker. In 34 years of hunting the Chelans, Entiat, and Glacier Peak I have my toads posted on the wall. I don't need the history lesson about the Entiat fires and winter kills, not to mention the Skank Slaughter that the Department thought was necessary after the Swakane fire. I lived through those fires, sprayed water on them, watched them burn my property and Entiat river cabin up. Then watched the floods wash it all into the river. Then watched my favorite hunting partner mourn when the next flood down the valley killed his parents and washed him into the river but survived. Jim is now an out of state outfitter by the way. About my nose being bent out of shape? That's the 10% I don't agree with. My Mom's brother was the 1956 Olympic Heavyweight Gold Medalist who in "57" knocked Floyd Patterson to the canvas in his first professional fight for the world heavy weight championship. My nose is still straight after growing up in a fighting family. This chit-chat won't bend my nose. If I head butt some sodbuster's horse off the Pugh Ridge Trail that might bend it. Were on the same page in a way Muleracks2. I don't want these displaced hunters messing with the Northfork, while you don't want them wandering up Phelp's Creek. It's protecting something dear to each of us. What this is all leading to in the future is a high permit-only hunt for all of us. Just like Idaho. I don't want that, but when these range wars start happening over high ground hunting turf between Outfitters,Clients,Me,You,My son,Archers,Muzzlers,Hikers,and Bikers, that's want is gonna happen. We are stepping on those Archers hunting the Northfork in September by this proposal, and if we step on one of them, that is war, and it will lead to permits. The seasons are set and I'll fight for their hunting rights as I would hope they would tend the cuts in my corner during a title fight. Stand behind me, squash this thing. It is one year of upset for High Hunters right now, me included, but if it gets bloody the WDFW will TKO us. You all have a good war with the Archers. I'm backing out with honor for all of you. I just remembered I drew a November 1-18 SlideRidge Modern Firearm bag another Boone and Crockett buck permit.
 
I'm with crabman on this. Plus there's still a month left before the season it could rain. To many complaints and the WDFG will permit the high hunt. Then were all screwed. States like Colorado have a early high hunt thats permit only. Some people are waiting twelve years or more for that hunt. We are lucky to have this hunt at all. It's probably the only decent thing washington offers. So let's not blow it. Sit back, wait for rain or pick a new spot this year. Crab the bent nose is 100% correct on this.
Cdeath
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-12-06 AT 10:03PM (MST)[p]The reason for the proposal to reopen the Entiat North Fork for the 2006 High Hunt season is to reduce pressure on the Clark and Alpine units (especially the Clark). Most of the trails in the White and Chiwawa Rivers are now part of the Pacific Crest Trail (they are receive a lot of use even without hunters). There is no need to "push" more hunters into those areas when we have the Entiat North Fork sitting there unused.

The Entiat North Fork has a history of successfully supporting the High Hunt and has only been closed for a few years; presumably because that area was saved from the Wilderness designation. Even when the North Fork was part of the High Hunt it still provided great general season hunts as the bucks from up valley migrated toward their breeding grounds and winter range.

The secondary reason for us to support the proposal is for the economic benefit recreation has on the Entiat Valley. You can imagine how Coopers Store at Ardenvoir has suffered with the valley being closed this summer. The High Hunt will help a little. Happy Hunting.
 
Thank you "Creepingdeath" for the support in Post #14. You are wise, brave, and have long range vision. You will be a great hunter. Your sacrifice will bless us all with the harvest of many big bucks for years to come. Take shelter below ridgetop, use the pressure, and beware the Pale Horse which rises from "DEEP WATER" for upon it sits death.
 
Toes have been stepped on with the mention of this place. I personally don't think that reopening the high hunt in there is going to really affect the deer that much, not a wholelot of bucks will be killed, its a low success hunt.

Crabcreekhunter I would challenge you to post some pics of those tuskers or send them to me via email, sounds like you know what deer hunting can really be like in this state, why not share with other fellow hunters, we all like seeing pics.

At least show us your slide ridge buck you take on your late tag. I highly doubt whatever happens will have a long term effect on the deer herd in that area.
 
I agree with crabcreek. its too bad theat the fire closed down the units for hunting but thats life. Maby they could open up the desert unit because of the tripod complex fire hows that sound?
 
The proposal is to open a small part of "wilderness like" Entiat North Fork is the right thing for wdfw to do. The North Fork will provide a hunt in the Entiat drainage while the rest of the Entiat is under a wildlands fire closure.

Ridgerunner and I are definately in agreement. This hunt will not ruin the Chelan herd or destroy the Entiat North Fork. It will provide a great alternative to the Entiat for the September modern rifle deer hunters.
 
Good suggestion Sharpstick. With the Pasayton closed from Chewuch River to the eastern border we'll need more than the NorthFork opened up to house the displaced hunters. Would you intertain the thought of an Emergency Action to open up the Yakima Firing Center along with the Desert Unit. I saw a real life "Rocking Chair" on South Umtanium in that Unit. Skip calling the Assistant Attorney General in Olympia. I'm calling the WhiteHouse and George. This is red phone time! Break out the OD Green, we don't need Hunter Orange on the REZ. LET'S ROCK THE 50 BMG's, ROLL-EM!!!!!
 
While I feel bad for the guys who had hunts planned in the closed area, I don't see how it would be fair to archery hunters who have a hunt planned in the North Fork Entiat area. The archery season runs from Sept. 1-30. How would it be fair to have a rifle season in there at the same time? And as Sharpstick brought up, where are all the Pasayten hunters going to go? Most people know that when you plan a September hunt, there is always a chance of a fire, and that the area may be closed at that time. We shouldn't expect the state to change seasons at the last minute in situations like this.
 
Bob, Archery hunters have the High Hunt areas to themselves from Sept. 1 - 14. This is nothing new. We do summer pack trips in the North Fork during early September and don't recall ever seeing an archery hunter up there.

We know that the wildlife managers take good look at the North Fork opportunity. Crabcreek loves the General Season North Fork hunt as much as we do but this hunt would not change the North Fork. For 40 years the North Fork was open to the High Hunt and it is as beautiful as ever.

Dale
 
I'm a little torn on this. I do appreciate that there's a bunch of guys displaced and that this could be a notable impact on the good guys at Icicle Creek.

My problem is it spreads/creates additional misfortune. Every year someone's spot gets burnt, gated, restricted or rule changed for some new reason. I'm not sure transfering that burden over to guys with an equally long time planned and prepared for hunt is reasonable. Bad luck can happen to any of us any given season. As it is this will put additional pressure on all the easy to access areas... but some may just bag it for next year rather than join a new crowded area. Half the reason to go on these hunts is to get away from numbers of people so I suspect a fair number of these guys if the north fork isn't open aren't going to push into chiwawa and white rivers.

I'm not worried about the deer herd. I'm not opposed to the area being inside the high hunt in general as "widlerness" is a political boundry not a tangible one. However I think guys need to be able to make their plans on their hunts based on the rules early in the year. That way they can make assumptions about pressure, when they need to get there, hiring packers, how far they will or won't go etc. Guys have spent good time and money scouting and preparing for that hunt I don't see the logic in craping all over those particular hunters over those in another area.

I'd be mightilly bummed as a drop/guided camp purchasor into the Entiat! I just don't think making another 30 guys in the next drainage over feel the same way is the solution. Bad luck is what it is.
 
Dale... The caveat to my prior post is my assumption that the north fork is hunted notably in the early archery. If there's really no displacement that's good to note. I'm sure the general season hunters would be happier though if only archers had been in there prior to their Oct arival. There's no winning on this one. The entiat guys can get a break but there will invariably be some PO'd guys from Archery and general in the north fork. If they open it up I hope the everyone in there can have good humor and a postive attitude.

On a side note, the icicle creek guys get great feedback. A couple of their guys have spent some time on the phone with me even though I'm likely still a year or two from booking. Good luck.
 
I would jump at the chance of hunting the North Fork on the High hunt but I did not think about the archery hunters that would be in there or how it would affect later seasons. I think now the state should just say "Sh*t Happens" and leave it how it has been. When Mount Saint Helens area is closed due to fires or mountain activity they don't open up another area to compensate for it. If the Wilderness area high hunt was scrapped and given to archery only in that area a lot of people would raise Hell and I think the loudest ones would be the proponents of opening the North Fork this year. Lets just leave it and say Tough Luck this year.
Shane
 
That's a one shot kill Shane. Anchored him. I would think that the Washington Outfitters and Guides Association would agree (www.woga.org), considering that their mission statement reads as follows on their website: The Professional Outfitters and Guides of the Association are dedicated to the tradition of fair and equal opportunity for quality outdoor experiences for EVERY PERSON, and to conserve and enhance forever the enduring heritage of the land and waters of the pacific northwest for humanity and wildlife.
 
Looks like it was rejected based on an email I got tonight from Dale. NOt sure if this is good or bad, there were positives and negatives to opening it up. Oh well.
 
Ridge, We are with you. We supported the proposal because it would provide a High Hunt away from the more heavily used Chiwawa and Alpine Lakes but we love having the North Fork available for the General Season as a pack in hunt that was not hunted during the High Hunt. It was nice of the WDFW to take a good look at that proposal.
 
Sorry it didnt work out Dale. You gave it a shot, thats all you can do. And i will say it again. ICICLE CREEK OUTFITTERS class act all the way!!!

PS Dale, Dad got his tag in the mail. He finally believes it. Now he is really in shock. haha

Garrett
 
I'm just glad we could all give our points of view on here civil which is a bit unusual. I'd have to side with crabcreek on this one, and glad there were no changes. No offense Dale or Ridge. But since my vote wasn't needed on this one because it really doesn't affect me one little bit, except for the thought of permits for the high hunt. Arghhhhh. lets not go there. As for the Pasayten, I am glad I'm going to Alaska this year because with this year and last year, I think it looks mostly like burnt toast. I may have to rethink my vote next year as a displaced Pasayten fella and come crowd you Entiat boys this year.
 

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