Opening Day..Is it just me?@!#$ Dedicated hunters@#$!?

MTQuivers

Active Member
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588
Is it just me or was opening day a joke this year. I hiked in an hour and a half in the dark to a spot I have hunted for years (and rarely see other guys) and it was an absolute JOKE! I saw two other guys in there last year and they didn't even get up there until 8:30. This year I counted 14 guys several mules and to boot at about 9:00 several dirt bikers flew through. I couldn't believe it. Luckily I had scouted hard enough to know right where the buck I wanted would be (I nice 5 by 5) and I was on him right at light. I got to about 75 yards and he bolted, but at least I had my chance for him. I saw several other small four points but nothing I was interested in.

NOW FOR MY POINT!!! BEFORE I WRITE THIS I WANT TO MAKE SURE I DON'T OFFEND people that do dedicated hunter because I don't blame you for doing it, BUT I think it is without a doubt ruining things for all THREE seasons in Utah. Think about it we already have 14,500 resident archery tags and then on top of that we have added 10,000 dedicated hunters. I will say this from an archers standpoint because that is what I typically do but you can apply this to whatever you hunt. If a guy hunts rifle and would choose rifle if he had to choose why in the heck wouldn't he hunt all three seasons if he could. He might only get 2 deer in three years but for MOST utah hunters that sounds pretty good. So two days before the hunt I hit Cabelas and I CAN"T BELIEVE how many guys are buying bows and targets. IT IS A JOKE!TWO DAYS BEFORE THE HUNT ARE YOU KIDDING ME! So in my opinion we have a bunch of NOVICE bowhunters that usually hunt rifle/muzzleloader and they decide what the heck I will just give archery a whirl and they go buy all the gear with little or no practice and they hit the hills only to jack up guys that are strickly bowhunting. THIS WILL ACCOUNT FOR MORE HUNTERS AND FOR MORE WOUNDED GAME. It also causes headaches for guys that have put in the time to prepare and are putting all their effort into the bow season . These guys are chasing our herds in the same canyons from AUG.-October and then onto the extended archery until DEC. This can't be good for our deer herds. If you are committed to rifle or muzzleloader the SAME thing applies. Guys that would choose archery if they had to choose are now hunting during your season and putting more pressure (As if we need more) to your hunt. I HOPE YOU GET THE PICTURE! I for one think that the extra money the fish and game are getting for the dedicated tags and the free service hours are DEFINETLY NOT WORTH THE FUTURE OF UTAHS DEER HERD! WE HAVE TO STOP PUTTING SO MUCH PRESSURE ON OUR DEER or the future of hunting will be grim here in Utah. WHAT CAN WE DO TO PUT A STOP TO THIS? I also think that the draw for rifle tags is killing us bowhunters. All the southern tag seekers that don't draw just go buy a bow tag, but that is a whole different post!!!
 
For the most part, it's not the dedicated hunters that are in Cabela's the day before the hunt starts buying their first bow. It's the guys that didn't draw a rifle tag and decide last minute that they want to take the plunge and go bowhunting instead of sitting home. I can only speak for myself (as a dedicated hunter), but it is NOT worth the time and money it takes to join the dedicated hunter program if your only interested in nailing down a rifle tag for three years.

I agree that things need to change in Utah for both deer and elk--this subject has been hit pretty hard on here lately so I'll do my best not to hijack this into a DWR bashing frenzy.

You're right in the way that there are too many bowhunters in certain areas, but I THINK you're pointing your finger in the wrong direction!
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-22-06 AT 01:25PM (MST)[p]What in the world would give you the idea that the DWR cares about our deer herds? The problem is too big to just say stop this or do this.
Dedicate hunters being the cause for trouble...Hmm not sure about that. I'm dedicated, and I sure as heck haven't put much pressure on the deer in this state.
I hunted an entirely new area this year. Saw a bunch of people on the roads. Saw none once I got off the roads. Sorry you hunted where everybody else did. Find a new place next time. Hunt out of state, only hunt limited entry units, take up golf. I have all kinds off suggestions. I'm not trying to be a jerk or a smart guy, just saying what I told myself a thousand times. If you want to hunt big deer without tons of people, good luck finding that place...It's not in Utah. I agree there are a ton of people in the hills, not a good thing if you want to hunt deer. But it's a great for us hunters in a different way. Strength in numbers my friend.
Opening weekend is always a joke no matter where you go. Hang in there and stick with that big buck, who knows, he might screw up before you do.




'It's all about the gut pile'
 
I always thought at the very least Archery needs to be restricted to the 5 regions that ML and Rifle are. Fair is fair.

But really, this is Utah and its fairly clear now that Deer are completely irrelevant in future plans. Its all about the biggest elk that can be raised and reserved for the people with the most $$$. The common man is being removed from the equasion with hunt odds now approaching once in a lifetime... yet the rich man can hunt every year regardless.

Suck it up or move out... opinions sadly just dont matter anymore.


-DallanC
 
All is ask is that the archery deer hunters don't stir up the elk too bad on the South Slope. I'm heading down [with my 14 YO son, who drew the tag] from Alaska to try for a "cookie cutter" or better right after the archery season ends.

Sounds like you need Premium and/or Limited areas for archery.

If anyone is doing the MZ season on the South Slope, I'll be glad to note any locations where I see nice Muleys.

Just did a "tune up" hunt with my son. I needed to work out my foot which I fractured a couple of months ago. We did 2,200 vertical and about 4-5 miles horizontal. He dragged his bow all the way up and then asked for my .338 for the 200 yd shot. Still in velvet up here.

MM
 
I don't want to come across as a jerk but I ride my dirtbike on several single track trails in this area. If they were on top of you, I'd say you weren't as far off the beaten path as you claim, unless they were riding illegal?

As far as the others...you are in Utah. I saw far more hunters this year than in the past. My son had 2 bucks in his lap that were spooked by guys on horses. There aren't many areas that you can get far enough away to avoid others. Try to hunt during the week to avoid the weekend warriors.

As a long time bow hunter, walk into any archery shop a week before the hunt. It has always been like this. Hopefully some of these guys will turn into serious ethical hunters. The guys that aren't prepared should become frustrated & never do it again? It's a cycle though & you will have a new crop the following year. This is where a bowhunting course would be effective but I don't how it could be mandated?

Again I don't want to sound like a jerk. Being on both sides of the fence my experience has been when conflicts arise, the hunters (mostly rifle) are the bigger horses a$$ & intolerant of a perfectly legal activity enjoyed by dirtbike enthusiasts.
 
I've said it about 3 times now... Utah needs smaller 'units' and hunters need to be restricted to each unit. Practically every other state in the west does this. You want to help your deer herds you have to reduce the presure in mico managed areas! Plain and simple. Having a tag in your pocket and getting to hunt a huge part of the state has to be a nightmare to manage, hence you have what you guys have... a huge cluster F...
 
Are you Serious! Since when is it "YOUR" hunt. Many of us that are dedicated hunters are long time bowhunters, muzzleload hunters, and rifle hunters. We spend many hours trying to improve habitat and other projects that benifit wildlife. We are selective in what we shoot. We enjoy the outdoors and put our money and our time on the line. What do you do as a bowhunter. You scout & scout & scout and try and harvest game and then you go home. What do you do to help benifit the game you hunt. As a dedicated hunter we Scout, we hunt all three hunts and many of us rarely shoot an animal. We volunteer our time, our money and our equipment to build guzzler, we plant shrubs and clear areas that provide winter food to the deer. We build fences to keep them of the roads.
I don't want to hear the crap from you that the dedicated hunters is the one hurting our herds. Give me a break. You have no clue. you are a user. Next time do you homework before you rip someone.
 
If you are having problems with dirt bikes in your hunting area, you probably aren't far enough off of the road. I am one of those "new" dedicated hunters that you are talking about. I have been very impressed with the program so far.
I was one of those guys that had always hunted muzzleloader and rifle, and I had never hunted archery. So I figured that if I was going to do it I had better do it right. I bought my bow back in May and have practiced at least 4 days a week since then. I don't know where you get off saying that "we have a bunch of NOVICE bowhunters that usually hunt rifle/muzzleloader and they decide what the heck I will just give archery a whirl and they go buy all the gear with little or no practice and they hit the hills only to jack up guys that are strickly bowhunting." Like someone mentioned before, it would be wise to do your homework before you make statements like the one I just quoted. Good luck with rest of your season.
 
Like I said before I was not trying to offend anyone and I don't blame people who do the dedicated hunter program, it has OBVIOUS benefits. For those of you that don't think that I was in far enough come hike with me whenever you like and see if you can keep up. As far as dirt bike trails I don't blame anyone for riding their dirt bikes where I was hunting it is perfectly legal but very inconvenient on opening morning. I am not frustrated with the area I hunted either although for the past three years I have had it to myself and this year I saw 14 other guys. If you read my post carefully and without thinking of yourselves or without taking offense because you are part of the dedicated hunter program you would relize that I have a very valid point and I have talked with LOTS of hunters that agree. I was a rifle hunter for years and I have killed 12 deer with a gun and only 3 with a bow. I am not against rifle hunting at all. I JUST DONT AGREE with the program. I know plenty of dedicated hunters that are just that..DEDICATED but that doesn't mean I agree with the program. I think you should have to choose your weapon or at least choose a much smaller area to hunt. Leaving bowhunting as a statewide tag and adding another 10,000 bowhunters is not helping anyone or the deer. If someone can explain to me how this does not put MUCH more pressure on the deer I would love to hear it. Nobody has given a valid point other than the fact that they are a dedicated hunter. I don't blame people for being dedicated hunters but I do blame the DWR for allowing it. Sure everyone would love the old system of hunting all three seasons with the muzzleloader hunt during the rut but is it the best thing for Utah. I dont think so. If you choose your season and choose your area the deer will be pressured much less and the hunt will be more enjoyable for everyone.

P.S. I do hunt other states (4 of them this year) and I am not worried at all about the Utah deer hunt I have plenty of other areas to hunt and I really don't get to serious until November on the extended. I am concerned about our future if the current trends continue.

P.S.S. When I was talking about unprepared bowhunters I OBVIOUSLY was NOT referring to every dedicated hunter. If you were not unprepared that should not offend you. If you were unprepared then you know who you are and I was referring to YOU!
 
WA just opened a multi season tag on a limited entry. We also have an "advanced hunter ed" status that is basically a willigness to fill out a common sense test and complet 12 hours outdoors volunteer service. This gives you set asside seasons.

I'd much rather in this state the do away with the test. But I'd like to see them combine the two set assides with a caveat.

If you can't shoot a 5 inch pattern at 300 yards rifle or a 5 inch pattern at 35 yards bow, or a 3 inch pattern at 100 muzzle.. you fail. If you shoot Each, if you do the 12 hours service what are the odds you don't know the game regs? Skip the test and give the most qualified killers the added oportunity, not just those guys with a free 12 hours on their hands or a lucky draw. I didn't say give them late Nov tags. This is just added ops in the reg seasons and some depredation hunt situations, but you are rewarding the committed and efficient rather than the lucky or have 12 hours to kill crowd.

Archery is 10 times the commitment of rifle. In short order you can teach a guy shooting a modest calibre how to be accurate out to 200 yds. Archery is just not the same beast. It takes days of commitment. Let alone the field discernment required. Anyhow, rarely are GF managment decissions made in such ways. It's more a popularity contest/how to draw the most $ in entry fees.
 
Wakin I hope you weren't calling me a lier. I wouldn't say that about a person I don't even know. Come hike with me and if you can do it in less than an hour and a half I will give you $50 and I will be VERY impressed because I hike fast and it has taken that long EVERY time I have hiked there over the years. The motor cylces were on a legal trail well below where I was hunting and as I stated I don't blame them, but when you are bow hunting hearing and seeing 8 motorcycles isn't my idea of a good thing.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-22-06 AT 11:50PM (MST)[p]Dogwood
When you say "before you rip someone" it sounds as though you are taking this personally. I didn't refer to anyONE. I refered only to a program. As far as service hours they don't justify a bad program. Every hunter and fisherman should VOLUNTEER for wildlife not because they have to but because they WANT to. I know a lot of dedicated hunters and for alot of them I would not call it volunteering. Most of them complain every year that they HAVE TO GO DO THEIR HOURS. We should do that because we love wildlife not so that we can hunt 3 seasons.

As far as your comment about me not having a clue I should probably ignore it but I can't. I think that anyone who can't think logically about what I am trying to say has no clue. Forget about what you want (which is obviously to hunt all 3 seasons) and then think about the effects of what the program is doing. It is making what many people claim to be a very over crowded state for hunting even worse. How can 24,000 bowhunters in the feild verses 14,500 allotted tags be good for anyone. Same goes for rifle hunts add 10,000 more people. Again I think that we should choose our weapon and choose an area. I don't care if they draw for archery for units and I don't care who chooses to hunt with a bow (as long as they prepare) but I do think that they should limit the numbers for each weapon and stick to it. Just sell the tags and when they are gone they are gone. When we over hunt the herds from August-Oct and even later then we simply aren't doing anyone any favors, and it certainly doesn't help the deer prepare for winter and the rut when they get chased month after month by to many guys. I understand that there is a lot of pressure in Utah anywhere you go and that is why I primarily hunt during the week (thank goodness I can do that)but I feel that it is going to far to allow people an opportunity to hunt all three seasons anywhere they want to. If we did a draw for smaller units or eliminated dedicated hunting or some other proposal I really don't care but something needs to be DONE! I think anyone who can't see that doesn't have a CLUE!

P.S. you don't have to be a dedicated hunter to volunteer. A few weeks ago I actually had the nerve to call the fish and game to volunteer to take kids fishing for no reason. Not to get a tag or anything. Just because I LOVE the outdoors and I love to see kids experience it. CAN YOU IMAGINE THE NERVE. JUST FOR THE FUN OF IT!
 
MT - no I'm not calling you a liar. I was in your shoes once & there was a day I'd take you up on the challenge. I love this sport so much that I was in my surgeons office today with a needle feeding each knee cortisone just to get me through the next few weeks.

I can illustrate my point - 2 years ago my sister in law had a Wasatch tag. I knew they were hunting a part of Strawberry where a group from a dirtbike forum was planning a ride. I warned him, he went anyway & had the bikes screw up a chance at a 340 bull for his wife. Personally I stay out of the hills during the hunts when I ride. This is a popular time of year to be on the bikes, I merely think you should account for this & get away from the single track. An hour in a half hike is pointless if you are hiking towards a bike trail.

You clearly have the passion & the legs to get you out there, use this to your advantage & scout bucks in areas away from access. There is nothing you can do about the guys buying bows & going out with no experience. I guess we all start somewhere, just hope they eventually get it.

I understand your frustration & I'm not trying to knock you for venting. Advice from an old fart - hunting in this state can & will be extremely frustrating at times. Don't get mad, you are enjoying a sport you love. there is always another day, another hill & another animal with your name on it. Our time in the hills is precious & sacred. When someone screws you up, shake your head, put a smile on your face & trudge on.


Best of luck to you throughout the year!


>Wakin I hope you weren't calling
>me a lier. I wouldn't
>say that about a person
>I don't even know. Come
>hike with me and if
>you can do it in
>less than an hour and
>a half I will give
>you $50 and I will
>be VERY impressed because I
>hike fast and it has
>taken that long EVERY time
>I have hiked there over
>the years. The motor
>cylces were on a legal
>trail well below where I
>was hunting and as I
>stated I don't blame them,
>but when you are bow
>hunting hearing and seeing 8
>motorcycles isn't my idea of
>a good thing.
 
Wakin I REALLY appreciate the post and I do have many other areas that I hike into and hunt. Usually I don't see motorcycles at this spot so I was just hopeful. I have scouted several times up there this year and never saw a bike even though I knew they were allowed on one of the trails . It just so happened that they came up on the wrong day for me. This particular area is not the most remote area I hunt but the past few years I have had it pretty much to myself. I was shocked when I was close to the top and had several head lamps following me in. I choose to hunt this area because of this one particular buck that has had my attention for a few years. He isn't even the biggest one Ive scouted I am just kind of attached and obsessed with him for some reason. I am really not discouraged at all and I do MOST of my hunting during the week. In fact opening day is typically the only weekend I hunt in Utah. I was mostly just voicing an opinion about a problem with our deer management.

Thanks again for the post. I can tell that you love the Outdoors just as much as I do and I can respect and appreciate anyone for that.
GOOD LUCK ON YOUR HUNTS

P.S. I had cortisone shots yesterday too! (in my lower back.) I guess I have a herniated disk. It doesn't hurt when I hike only when sitting down. This is my first cortisone so I am hoping it will last for a while. At least through hunting season.
 
I am sorry for getting so offensive, the whole premise behind the dedicated hunter was to provide more days afeild, without taking more game. Years ago our economy in Utah florished in small towns because of hunters. They were dependent on them coming into thier communitees and spending money. Its what got them through the rest of the year. The Dedicated hunter (in a small way) provides extra resources to our small towns. We are out more days hunting, we spend money in the small towns. We give back to what is so special to us. I don't understand why you are so against the program. It does add more hunters to certian area's yes. Without hunter numbers and dedicated people who put there all into it our sport will die. Why do you think the Fish and Game are promoting young hunters so much right now. We are losing hunters faster than we are gaining them. We have to provide opportunities to keep them in the sport. I have many, many freinds who use to be serious hunters that have just given up the sport because it has become so complicated and competative. In the ultimate world I would love my Honey hole just for myself, deer that have no pressure, that would be awesome. But I am also realistic, it doesn't belong to me, it belongs to all of us. One of the great things about hunting is just being there. The dedicated hunter lets us have the opportunity to be there longer. We spend countless hours giving back to the sport we all love. If it takes getting use to being croweded, we will have to adapt and be creative in our abilities to be succsesful. You probaly dont remeber the 70's & 80's There was over 250,000 hunters, it was crowded, but it was a blast, all your family was there, towns would shut down school for the hunts because it was such a big thing. Now you almost feel guilty if you say your a hunter for fear of persacution. I know you are frustrated and wonder what its up with it all but you just have to take it in stride and greet your fellow hunters with pride and hope that our sport is around for our grandchildren to enjoy like we have.
 
Dogwood, I want to apologize as well for offending any dedicated hunters. I can tell you also respect and love the outdoors. Your right about the 70's but I do remember the 80's some and I also remember a time when the bowhunt was not NEARLY as crowded. A big part of it is probably just the popularity of bowhunting gaining some steam, but I swear that not to many years ago it was not like this. I do appreciate the service hours and the money spent for our sport by the dedicated hunters both those that are in and those that are not in the utah dedicated hunter program. I feel that "SOME" people are doing the dedicated program not because they love the outdoors and because they want to stay in the woods or because they want to do service hours, but simply to gain an advantage over the game and other hunters. I OFTEN hear guys I know say, "Oh well I still have the muzzleloader, or I still have the rifle or at least their is still the extended." Rather than picking a season and being committed to it they use the program as a crutch and they fall back on whatever season is coming up. To me that just educates the game more and more and leaves to many hunters in the feild. If they would just committ to a season and hunt hard and then step aside for others to give it a try it seems like everyone would be more succesful and happy. I DON"T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS THAT IS FOR SURE BUT I DO THINK THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM that we can all improve if we put our heads together. I know that I want to ensure all types of hunting for me and my kids in the future and I for one am willing to do whatever I can to see that happen.
 
Cry me a river Quiver. All a guy has to do is read your subject title to know what you have to say. Have you ever considered the fact that your fellow hunters are also spending their hard earned time and money each year to keep "your deer" on "your mountain" and to keep hunting seasons open to the public. If you were the only one, I seriously doubt you'd be able to afford the cost of managing/maintaining/growing deer herds, and securing and maintaining public land by yourself, no matter how much your salary. Those deer you are hunting aren't just there by accident, and they don't stay there without help. It costs money and takes effort to keep them there, and we all help with that task so that it can hopefully be relatively affordable for us all.

I for one think it's great to see more hunters in the field (if there really were, which is not the case). And I also don't have any problem finding deer in places where I am all alone and have them to myself. Just have to be willing to work harder than the next guy.

You may want to start hiking a little earlier next opening day!
 
14,500 tags for the entire state, thats nothing!! I never seen another hunter in the 4 days i was out. plenty of bucks, great time, sore feet. headed back in 40 mins :)
and i was with 2 dedicated hunters as I said DEDICATED!
good luck
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-23-06 AT 06:18PM (MST)[p]Utahheadgear you never said but I am assuming that you are a dedicated hunter and that you support the program. It sounds like I also OFFENDED you to. Like I said before SEVERAL times I have hunted this area for years and I have rarely seen another person so I was suprised to see others. I once again will challenge you to come hike with me and see if you can keep up. (Nobody has accepted the challenge yet)I PROMISE you that scouting hard and hiking into remote areas is NOT the problem. (Just ask my wife how often I am gone at 3:00 a.m. during the summer.) I also want to point out that I have NO problem with the deer herd or finding deer in Utah in fact I went back and forth with BOBCAT recently saying that I think Utah has great opportunities for nice bucks on public land, but that still doesn't mean that I should support programs I don't agree with. Of course you agree with this program that's why you are a part of it but that doesn't mean everyone supports it. I still have yet to hear one comment about how the dedicated hunter program helps take the pressure off of our deer herd. All I am hearing is a bunch of dedicated hunters that are offended that someone doesn't like the program that they are part of. If someone can tell me a benefit to the deer and not for themselves I would love to hear it and maybe I will change my mind. Can somebody PLEASE give me a valid point about how this program is beneficial to our deer herd? I don't want to hear about the $ it raises because that is bull. It may help our economy when guys spend money at Cabelas on three different weapons but the money given for the dedicated tags are a small part of the revenue for the DWR and ALL hunters are responsible for the financial support of our wildlife. (Not just dedicated hunters) If we are going to hunt all three seasons I am 100% supportive of that as long as we draw for specific (much smaller) regions that limit the numbers to the available game and land. With the current program I believe (and last I checked I am entitled to an opinion--which is shared by MANY others) we are putting WAY to much pressure on CERTAIN areas of our deer herd. I personally can't think of ANY other state that has so few premium draw hunts for deer and such LARGE general areas. (Just ask the southern rifle hunters what pressure can do to an area.) TO ME IT JUST DOESN"T MAKE SENSE!!!

P.S. How can you say "if there were more hunters afeild." That is a fact. 14500 res 1500 nonresident and 8000-10000 dedicated hunters. Which means at least a 33% increase of hunters on the bowhunt.
 
I sure wish my state would go to single weapon hunts, it would cut the archery hunters in half. But I don't own the world I just wish that I did. Have fun and be safe.
 
I have been following this post for the last couple of days and have finally have had to say something. I am in my 9th year of the Dedicated Hunter program. The program is not perfect but there is one thing this program is good for and that is the financial support it gives the DWR, which means deer and deer habitat. The purchase of the dedicated hunter tags is not where they are getting that support. Where the DWR is making its money is the community service worked by the dedicated hunters. There are over a hundred projects in the state of Utah completed each year by dedicated hunters. If it wasn?t for the dedicated hunters volunteering their time the state would have had to pay for those projects to be completed, which means less money spent on wildlife. Because of the dedicated hunters that money is now freed up to spent elsewhere. Not only is it costing the state less to complete these projects but they are also able to get more done in with a work force of 10,000 strong.

I do agree with you on one point; certain parts of the state are getting to much pressure from archery hunters. I don't think it's hurting the deer herds though; what it is affecting is the quality of the hunts. It is a good thing that archery is becoming as popular as it is, but it would improve the quality of everybody?s hunting experience if the pressure was spread out through the entire state. Going back to choosing your region for all hunts would be a good start. I would like to see them shorten the archery hunt or possibly split it into two hunts an early and late but that is not likely to happen.
 
Quiver,
There are less and less hunters in the field. Every year our numbers drop. It may not seem that way due to the crowds you were seeing, but overall hunter numbers are declining all over the country.
 
The fact that your "spot" is accessible to dirt bikes and even horses and mules speaks volumes. Hot tip: quit friggin' whining and find a new spot.

I cannot believe the Utard whining on this and other forums. Huge state, reams of public property, and you manage to hunt with crowds. They're not the problem.
 
This thread and this whole site have virtually become an open forum of Utards whining.

If it is so terrible MOVE

You could always move to Iowa and have a treestand every fifty feet on public ground.

And to finish, if there is an atv trail where you hunt you cant complain if you see ATVs.
 
Vek and ddy58, I have a few words for you before I head out to Colorado for my archery deer hunt. I think that before you POP off your big mouths you ought to read the whole post. First there are no ATV trails where I was hunting. If you have ever hiked on a trail there are markers and they tell you what is allowed. This particular trail allows dirtbikes but not four wheelers. It is a trail that exceeds 10,000 feet and I have hunted there on the past 3 opening mornings. On those hunts I have not seen any motorcyles (until this year) and I saw a whopping total of two guys up there before this year. I have also HEAVILY scouted the area and hiked the 1 1/2 hours in over 20 times in the last 3 years and I saw one other motorcyle group and a couple guys joy riding on their horses. That is it. If you would read the post instead of popping off you might relize that I was very surprised to see other people but that really has very little to do with my point. I have spent on average 20-30 days in the feild on the Utah bow hunt and the extended bow hunt and I have hiked EVERY trail that I know of and I know nearly every canyon in the Wasatch Front. I video lots of deer in the preseason and during the hunt, and I have several different areas that I love to hike into. (As mentioned before if you want to come hike with me bring it on.) My point is about the pressure that certain areas are getting because of the current system. If you don't think that the archery hunt is getting hammmered YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NOT SPENT MUCH TIME ON THE EXTENDED HUNTS. I am not saying I don't love the extended hunt because I do and I truly believe it is the BEST chance for archers to get a trophy deer, but go watch any hill on that mountain in November and tell me if there are not 6 guys stalking every deer.

P.S> As far as the comment about leaving Utah I think I will. Tommorrow I'm of to Colorado for 5 days then back for 2 days then off to Wyoming for 4 days on archery Antelope. I HATE to bare bad news but I will be coming back to stay. I grew up in Utah and I will never leave.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-25-06 AT 01:17AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-24-06 AT 11:48?PM (MST)

I am leaving soon but one last thought. First of all I wanted to thank archeryhntr for his comments. He is the only one that has tried to talk about the benefits of the dedicated hunter and he did it very respectfully and I appreciated and acknowleged what he wrote. I agree that the program does ALOT of good with service and financial help to the state. I also agree that the extra bow hunters are not hurting the deer as much as the quality of the hunt for others and I thought that was a GOOD point. When someone can be mature enough to give a good answer I can respond with the same respect. When people respond with uneducated remarks it simply shows their inexperience and lack of respect. My final point on this post is about the benefits of each hunt. It used to be that the benefit of archery was less hunters and earlier season dates, the benefit of muzzleloading is that it is before the rifle hunt starts and you can still shoot 200+ yards, the benefit of rifle hunting is long range shooting and the possibility of the early snow which pushes animals down for easier hunting. My main concern with not choosing a weapon is that you get the benefits of all three and the deer have less chance of surviving and aging to maturity. FOR EXAMPLE: lets say a guy bow hunts he gets the early season benefits but does not kill a deer then hunts the muzzleloader before rifle season but still nothing, then the snow falls like two years ago and big bucks are standing near the road and everbody kills big bucks. (I know because I took my brother in law that year and he killed his first buck which scored 164" right near the road with very little effort except sitting on his four wheeler while I sat behind my spotting scope.) Now if hunters HAD to choose that year, MANY of them would have chosen archery or even muzzleloader and we would not have seen such a slaughter. It seemed that all the HARD CORE hunters killed deer that year and many of them were in the dedicated program. To me that seems unfair to the deer. Its a numbers game and eventually deep snow falls and even guys that didn't draw the rifle tag get the benefit of an early snow. An archery guy can do dedicated just in CASE of that early snow. The deer get hounded for 3 months IN SOME AREAS. If they had smaller units or something the 3 weapon system may work very well, but I think with the current system there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY TO REGULATE CERTAIN AREAS OF OUR DEER HERD AND THEY ARE IN DANGER>>>>>>>That is ALL that I can and will say about this. IT IS JUST MY OPINION! TRY HARD not to get your panties all knotted up.
 
This is an interesting post and I can relate to your concerns.
I am also a dedicated hunter, and have been since the beginning of the program. I also believe that the benefits are the money saved by the division to have the amount of labor provided by the sportsman. I also believe that the biggest share of the dedicated hunters, do not harvest their 2 deer in 3 years, thus that is a benefit of less actual deer harvest. Maybe I am wrong overall, but the guys I hunt with and talk to, do not feel that they need to harvest their "quota" to be successful. The main reason I signed up and signed my kids up was to give us that extra excuse to go out and be together and doing something that we all enjoy. Years ago when they went to a choose your weapon program, my family camping trips went down to about nothing. Sure, I could have still went, but didn't. Now having the opportunity to hunt 3 different seasons, with 3 different weapons, leads to many more "family" camping opportunitys. We all enjoy being out hunting at different times of the year, and you learn more and different things, hunting with different weapons.
MT, you mentioned that you felt the animals were being chased too much and too far into the year, but then you talk about how you really enjoy the "extended season". Isn't that contribuiting to what you are talking about as what is hurting our deer herds.
I have to say it is glad to see where you guys are doing your best to not stomp on each other in this post. It is 1/2 way civilized compared to some other posts.
I think we all can agree that something needs to be done, and at this point it seems nobody is doing it...
I feel that some smaller units, and limiting permits in all seasons is one step to work towards.
 
I'll stand firmly by my comments. Your "spot" is accessible and has been found. Accessibility and secrecy are mutually exclusive terms these days, generally speaking. Hour and a half on the trail or whatever, Utah is a big state, with lots of deer. Time to reconsider your hunt. Sorry.

The hour and a half hike description is meaningless without some indication of distance and elevation. If you are six miles and 3000' in, then you may have justification in being peeved. Maybe.

You come across as having the time and skills necessary to find deer. Your current gig is up. Time to move your operation and ply your skills elsewhere.

New rule. If you are in Utah, you are not allowed to whine about the following:
1. Being allowed to hunt mulies in the rut, with any weapon, OTC.
2. Crowds
3. ATVs
4. Horses
5. Motorcycles

Unless you have a debilitating injury or condition which does not allow you to walk uphill.
 
You are absolutely right about the dedicated hunter program, Quivers. All its doing is turning everybody loose in the hills. I joined it just so I could have a chance to hunt all 3 hunts. The hunt I am really interested in is the archery. Archery hunting is becoming a joke, 50,000 people in the hills. The G&F is not going to stop until everything is dead. They need more money so they can put it towards nothing or put it towards preserving the desert tortoise or the minnows in the virgin river. How many guys go in the hills and shoot a deer and dont tag it, thinking they can keep hunting. How many deer are wounded because these beginner bow hunters cant hit where they need to, to kill the animal. How sad is it that a guy lives in utah his whole life and has seen a game warden in the hill maybe once. I could go on and on, but bottom line here is the G&F sucks S!it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-28-06 AT 09:56PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-28-06 AT 09:45?PM (MST)

sremim,
I dont think you really have a clue of what you are talking about. Where did you get those stats, out of a cracker jack box. There are more hunters than there has ever been. Once you start hunting you really dont give it up. Of course maybe your right maybe people quit hunting because the hunting has gone to s!it or that there is 50,000 people in the hills. I guess this brings us back to the money situation, more tags more hunters. How many hunters go out without a tag. Usually more money, more greed. Oh, I know maybe you can make less hunters and quit hunting yourself.
 
I better not run into a million hunters this weekend or im gonna be one mad mofo



-Cass
 
40incher,
Not sure what your problem with people on this site, and hunters in general is. My "stats" is a well known fact. Don't you need numbers to have "stats" anyways? Did I provide numbers? Didn't think so. Overall hunters are declining in numbers. Why don't you do a search on this site, or start your own thread and ask how many know people who have given up hunting. Man, you have some serious issues.
 
do I need to spell it out for you. The problem is the fair chase practices and the money being exchanged for big bucks. Apparantly the truth hurts. Your firing right back at me, so I guess that means you have some serious issues also.
 
Back from CO after a short 3 day hunt. Saw LOTS of bucks. Tried stalks and missed a few shots on NICE mulies. I ended up taking a decent 3 by 4 with big front forks and decent mass,(5" bases) at 70 yards. I hit him perfectly and he only went 75-100 yards before piling up. He is not the biggest buck in the woods (he grosses 147) but it was still a very fun hunt. As far as I am concerned any time you can hunt mulies in the velvet with a bow it is going to be a great hunt. I had a ton of fun so now I am back for a few days of work and then off to wyoming on Friday to hunt antelope.
 
WAIT FOR SNOW ON THE FRONT . IF WE GET A 2 FOOTER . THERES GONNNA BE ALOT OF LIMPING BUCKS , DRAGGING THEMSELFS WITH THERE FRONT LEGS . HAVING ARCHERY HUNTERS OVER THEM STICKING THEM AT POINT BLANK . IT WILL BE A CARNIVAL !!!
 

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