LE Utah elk herds are down

[Elkhunter96]

Not to go all doom and gloom, but I have read Utah LE elk posts almost daily for a year now and participated in one LE hunt, it just seems that almost all the units were down from past years. Some were way down, heard rumors of very few bulls over 300 B&C on units like Boulder, Monroe, Dutton, Beaver, etc. Pahvant and San Juan still produced some monsters, although not as many as some past years.

My good friend did well on the Wasatch, but it was a hard hunt and only one of the two tag holders tagged out. I hunted the Book Cliffs hard, only saw one big bull over 350 to chase. I took the second to third biggest bull I found in over 20 days of hunting and scouting.

What I saw and my friends saw were lack of quality bulls. I could glass hundreds of cows and small bulls before I could even find one approaching 300. The DWR is too greedy, too many tags and there is not one good reason to have a spike hunt on a LE unit. All they are doing is killing the future. I can say first hand that the bull to cow ratio on the book cliffs is way out of wack. Very few bulls and lots of rag horns being herd bulls. Reminds me of the Unitas 10-15 years ago.

I know there is a big movement for saving the deer herd, which I mostly support. I think the same movement needs to be taken to keep what we have of our trophy class elk herd.

Personally, I would like to see Utah provide a few more any bull units. Follow Colorado's example and have four point or better units, etc. But, I am at a minority it seems.

What suggestions do you guys have or reports from some of the units I did not mention?

 

[alpinebowman]

How dare the DWR make a hunter work hard for a trophy animal.

BAD DWR!!

And maybe it is the down trend of elk that will help the deer }>.

Not to say I don't like to hunt elk but my hell if they would let us kill more big bulls we wouldn't need the spike hunts.

alpinebowman

>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->

 

[utahbigbull]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-30-10 AT 11:01PM (MST)[p]I worked my tail off on the Dutton muzzle hunt this year and with a lot of work, help and luck, I was able to get a 340 6X7. Only seen a couple bigger but did not get an oppertunity. I helped a friend in my old stomping grounds on the late Manti and only was there for the last few days but no mature bulls either. Settled for a 6X6 that probably would go 290.

 

[legacy]

>Scouted and hunted my arse off
>after A LOT of hard
>work on the Dutton muzzle
>hunt and I seen a
>few bigger but this 340
>class was the biggest I
>could get a shot at.
>I did not see or
>know of any bigger taken
>on the muzzy there. It
>was some pretty rough going!!

>
>
>

Sweet bull!

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

absolutely nothing wrong with that bull at all!!!! I think the size of bulls may be down a little. You will see that as more tags are given. The days of shooting 10-15 400" bulls are long gone and I for one am glad. However, the numbers of elk sure aren't down. I saw elk in literally every draw I went into. I sat on one ridge in one spot with some hunters and glassed/heard 10+ bulls. 3 of the ones we saw were over 350. I actually thought that the Wasatch was better than I thought it would be. I don't know on the other units though.


It's always an adventure!!!

 

[utahbigbull]

I would have to agree with the Wasatch unit producing this year. It seems that there have been more pics of diecent bulls this year from that unit than any other. I know the Dutton was rough and my stomping grounds on the Manti were hard as well this year.

 

[Prism]

Seems to me that you either loved or hated the wasatch this year. Seems like there were plenty of bulls to go around and even some good ones , but overal it was very tough to tag out on a 350plus bull. I'd say it it ended up being one of the better units this year. As were some of the other less talked about units .

 

[swbuckmaster]

Its not rocket science that you had a hard time finding a bull over 350 in a non trophy elk unit!

Its not rocket science that the quality is getting shot out with a 90%+ success rate weapon in the rut!!

Its not rocket science to know that killing spikes is going to create a void in older age bulls in the future and more tag cuts are coming thus creating the largest bonus point butt plugg in history.

The harder you work the luckier you get!!

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

Give it 3 more years with current management disaster plans & You'll be seeing some real PISSCUTTERS harvested!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!

I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!

 

[mgstokes]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-10 AT 09:39AM (MST)[p]The boulders seemed way down. Too many tags. Way too many bid permits. I talked to a couple of guys who were holding out for a big bull and then they shot a 300 inch bull and a 290 bull. Another guy shot a 2 1/2 year old five point at the end of the rifle hunt. I had a premium tag and Shot the the first 300 inch bull I saw on the late hunt. Saw 14 bulls on the late hunt before I shot him. Passed on a few 330ish bulls earlier. Saw one big bull on the archery. Hunted 22 days and I would like to thank all those that helped me.

 

[Tree]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-10 AT 10:38AM (MST)[p]I spent a lot of time hunting bulls on the Manti, Wasatch and SW desert. As hot as it was, I think it made seeing elk a more difficult task than in several years past, at least that was my experience. I've seen some great bulls on the winter range, Might make for a great year next year.

www.bowhuntersofutah.com

 

[AntlerKing]

The North and South Cache units are way down, getting worse every year. All the auction tags with all the new hunts (early, late, archery) hasn't helped out. My buddy had a Manti tag, said he saw few bulls then the past two years on it. I don't think Utah has been able to get anything right when it comes to managing herds.

 

[c3]

I'm also not a buyer that the sky is falling.

We had one of the biggest snowfall years in southern Utah history last year and we had an exceptionally cold July. These two factors alone would account for the lack of antler growth and 400" bulls seen this year.

Then you add the fact that the elk are finally figuring out how to avoid the bounty hunter posse's, throw in a hot dry hunt and you'd get the impression there are no big bulls left in Utah.

It will be very interesting to see the average age class of bulls harvested this year.

I believe we've never seen an elk herd like we have right now. I'm not a fan of the spike hunts either, but we have to give more bull tags somewhere.

Cheers,
Pete

 

[Deerlove]

Tagged along on a Manti rifle tag and it was tough. The weather was way too hot.

 

[HorseCreek]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-10 AT 12:13PM (MST)[p]>I'm also not a buyer that
>the sky is falling.
>
>We had one of the biggest
>snowfall years in southern Utah
>history last year and we
>had an exceptionally cold July.
> These two factors alone
>would account for the lack
>of antler growth and 400"
>bulls seen this year.
>
>Then you add the fact that
>the elk are finally figuring
>out how to avoid the
>bounty hunter posse's, throw in
>a hot dry hunt and
>you'd get the impression there
>are no big bulls left


>in Utah.
>
>It will be very interesting to
>see the average age class
>of bulls harvested this year.
>
>
>I believe we've never seen an
>elk herd like we have
>right now. I'm not
>a fan of the spike
>hunts either, but we have
>to give more bull tags
>somewhere.
>
>Cheers,
>Pete


+1 It couldn't be said any better. Who would've guessed it would be tough to to kill a 350+ bull.
Traditional only >>>------->

 

[Gator]

I believe the elk herd is growing, you now see them out in the low desert area's you never saw them in before unless it was a wintering herd, Now you have small little herds staying in those area's year around. The mountains aren't the only places to find elk now.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".

 

[c3]

+1 Gator

We're going to have to adjust how we hunt them as they've change how they play the last few years. They seem to stick to the thickest oak brush and junk they can find year round now. They're there you just can't see them hardly ever.

Cheers,
Pete

 

[WORKNMAN]

I have heard the same comments from other hunters that have drawn limited entry tags. Also from guides that are in the field every year. Elk quality on limited entry Elk units is down about 25%, so I'm told. Just my opinion, but you cant continually hand out the large number of LE Rifle Elk tags, Conservation Tags, and Expo tags during the peak of the rut and not expect the Quality of big bulls to drop off!!! There are only so many big bulls out there. Which is worse, waiting 15 years plus to draw a LE Rifle Elk tag and take a 350+ Bull. Or waiting 10-14 years, finally draw a tag. And what you have waited for so long is not there!! If hunters want to see alot of 350 plus class Bulls. The DWR must back off the number of LE Rifle Bull Tags. I KNOW I JUST PISSED SOMEONE OFF WITH THAT STATEMENT. The truth is Archery hunters have less impact on heards, due to the lack off success rate. I believe Archery hunters success rate on LE Archery tags is about 35%.

 

[pookiebar]

It is all the new CWMU's!!!!! Elk move all over the place. They give the public one tag, then sell the rest for $10,000. Look at the ratios, you get one public tag on a CWMU and then they get to kill 10 more bulls!!!!

The animals don't know when they cross a fence they are game to be killed at any time. Utah is going to turn into a crap hole for hunting in about 5 years. It's already on it's way down!

 

[spotit1st]

pookie in 5 years it will be gone its already been destroyed. Thank You SFW your ideas at work for the Utah Hunter.

 

[utahbuck]

I had a boulder muzzy tag this year and it was a very tough hunt. Everyone I talked to was having the same problems I had. Not seeing many elk and no big bulls. I think the reason everyone a lot of people had a hard hunt was due to the weather. On the boulders it was really hot the first half of the hunt and then the second half it rain and snowed. Overall really bad weather for hunting. I never saw a bull bigger then 330ish and ended up coming home with nothing. I wanted to kill a big one or nothing, and nothing is what I got. I guess there will always be next time in 20 years. My dad also had a bow tag for the Dutton and didn't get anything either. Thats a different story.

 

[dillon]

I personally think that there are still some very nice bulls out there. While all these popular units are going down hill I have seen some sweet bulls come off the Paunsaugunt and the Cache Meadowville. People generally underestimate those units.

In my opinion we hunt to many cows. That is why people are seeing less elk on the Fishlake, Boulder and many other units. The past few years we have been slaughtering them in the snow.

I am not a fan of the spike hunt even though it has a very low success rate, because it does take a good chunk of new bulls out each year.

I am a bow hunter for the most part and I have 9 bonus points for elk. I am constantly thinking about what I want to do with those points. Next fall will be my last year in Utah until after graduate school for sure...unless I don't get in. I am half willing to use them on a Cache South muzzle loader tag, but the other part of me wants to go archery on the Monroe or Pahvant in a few years, maybe after school is behind me.

Every year there are more tags issued for LE elk in Utah. I personally think a 340-350 bull is a great bull. I guess this is where we decided do we all want to kill a 380 bull once in our life or have the chance to hunt bulls on a LE area twice maybe.

Quality and opportunity are hard to hold in the same basket.

Dillon

 

[swbuckmaster]

I think anyone is gullible who thinks they are going to hunt LE elk once or twice in their life especially if you have zero points.

The pyramid scheme is too large and the spike hunting is taking its toll by creating a void in bull recruitment. The division will be forced to cut big bull tags by the cool-aid drinking SFW morons. Mark my words!!!

Its not rocket science to see that having a 90+% shoot in the rut with the most tags will kill the quality out of an herd.

The harder you work the luckier you get!!

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

Mark my word on it!

In 3 years with current/piss poor management it won't matter if you're huntin them in the Rut or not!

You best smile when your PISSCUTTER hits the ground!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!

I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!

 

[hornkiller]

"pookie in 5 years it will be gone its already been destroyed. Thank You SFW your ideas at work for the Utah Hunter."


Best post i have seen all year and whoever say's it aint so look back when it really started to get bad and you will find that's when SFW stated to put there hand's into everything!!!


THANK YOU



DON

 

[fishfearme]

You guys have short memories. In the early to mid 1970's there were NO elk on the Pahvant. None! You could hunt for days on Deseret Land & Livestock (and it was legal back then) and never see a single elk. State wide, a 6 point elk of any size was as rare as a 400" bull is now.

I'm not saying all is well with the elk herds now, but we have been very lucky to go from nothing 40 years ago to world class herds now. Do you think it was by chance? Give the DWR a little credit, but lets continue to do all we can to make our views heard by the DWR.

By the way, I'm a rifle hunter, but I think between the early and late rifle hunts, there are too many rifle permits to sustain for any long period of time.

 

[In_the_Shadows]

I'm so sick of spoiled hunters..... "we had to work so hard to kill a trophy elk!" Wahhhhh!!!!

Its lonely at the top.... just the way I like it.

 

[wymoose]

I think this was a tough year with the weather and what not. That being said - spike hunting turned statewide a few years ago and I would expect that we are seeing the results in a few of the units as more bulls are getting harvested as yearlings.

A 340 bull is still a heck of a bull. There isn't another state in the nation where guys complain when they kill a bull like that.

WYmoose

 

[Elkhunter96]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-10 AT 08:49AM (MST)[p]"

 

[Elkhunter96]

I appreciate all of your comments, except the few who think we are just whining. I do remember when there were hardly any elk in Utah, so we do have to give a big thanks to the DWR for building the herd. What is concerning is that the herd seems to have peaked and headed the other way without the DWR even noticing.

I have no problem hunting hard, which is why I prefer archery. However, when I say I saw one bull over 350 on a LE unit in over 20 days of glassing/hunting, that is a concern. There were days I spent from before sun up until after the dark glassing. I saw hundreds of cows, lots of bulls, and 1 bull over 350...

Yes, I did take a nice bull, but many people on the unit didn't. The bull I took will increase the age objective since it will be over 10 years old, guessing in the 13 year old range...

331 5 x 5

I have several euro mounts of smaller bulls I shot in the 90's from any bull units. I hope our LE units go not go down the same path.

If the DWR wants to keep handing out lots of LE tags, it can happen. But, the spike hunts, cows hunts need to be stopped. I also am a proponent of moving the LE rifle tags out of the rut peak, making it "harder" My concern is keeping the LE units in excellent condition for future hunts.

 

[utahbigbull]

If that is in reference to the pics of my 340 where I said it was some rough going, I want to clarify. It was mentioned that no bulls above 300 were taken on the Dutton. It was some rough going due to having torn cartlidge in the knee. It was a rough hunt, not as many big boys as I was hoping but due to a lot of hard work and help, I did get a bull that I am VERY HAPPY with. Not complaining one bit.

 

[WORKNMAN]

The Utah DWR must cut the number of LE Early Rifle Elk Tags. With a 95% success rate during the rut, it was only a matter of time until the quality of Bulls droped off!! Late Rifle Elk hunts have a 50% success rate, Archery is about 35%. The DWR could move tag numbers around and still give opportunity, with less impact on the herds!! I hope they cut the number of spike tags down by 50% also.

 

[Coyote_chaser]

STOP HUNTING THEM IN THE RUT WITH A RIFLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HOW MANY TIMES DOES IT NEED TO BE SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOOK AT ARIZONA, NEW MEXICO AND NEVADA, VERY VERY VERY VERY FEW RIFLE TAGS IN THE RUT FOR A FREAKING REASON!!!! FISH IN A BARREL

Caps for the effect!

 

[muzzle]

+1

 

[elkun]

fish in a bbl. my ass. get a life,

 

[Coyote_chaser]

95+ percent success rate with an average of 1.5 days afield, you just lazy???!!!! LMAO!! FISH IN A BARREL!!!!! Its a HUNT not a SHOOT!! Chit learn to hunt if you need a 500 yard weapon to kill a love drunk bull bugling his brains out and chasing cows at 11 AM!! To even argue the point that it is not like shooting fish in a barrel is a waste of everyones time!

 

[swbuckmaster]

+1

with the rifle hunt in the rut its way to easy to shoot the quality out of the herds.

It dont, dosent, wont, work for deer so why is it so good for elk.

The harder you work the luckier you get!!

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

It's OK for StickFlippers to kill Bulls in the Rut but oh boy do not offer it to another Weapon Type!

Let's just stop all Hunts in the Rut!

That ought to Piss The Pope off,or at least all the sw's & ww's!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!

I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!

 

[WORKNMAN]

>STOP HUNTING THEM IN THE RUT
>WITH A RIFLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>HOW MANY TIMES DOES IT NEED
>TO BE SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>LOOK AT ARIZONA, NEW MEXICO AND
>NEVADA, VERY VERY VERY VERY
>FEW RIFLE TAGS IN THE
>RUT FOR A FREAKING REASON!!!!
>FISH IN A BARREL
>
>
>Caps for the effect!

I agree!!

 

[WORKNMAN]

>95+ percent success rate with an
>average of 1.5 days afield,
> you just lazy???!!!! LMAO!!
> FISH IN A BARREL!!!!!
>Its a HUNT not a
>SHOOT!! Chit learn
>to hunt if you need
>a 500 yard weapon to
>kill a love drunk bull
>bugling his brains out and
>chasing cows at 11 AM!!
>To even argue the point
>that it is not like
>shooting fish in a barrel
>is a waste of everyones
>time!

+11

 

[WORKNMAN]

>+1
>
>with the rifle hunt in the
>rut its way to easy
>to shoot the quality out
>of the herds.
>
>It dont, dosent, wont, work for
>deer so why is it
>so good for elk.
>
>

>
>The harder you work the luckier
>you get!!

Well Put!!

 

[WORKNMAN]

>It's OK for StickFlippers to kill
>Bulls in the Rut but
>oh boy do not offer
>it to another Weapon Type!
>
>
>Let's just stop all Hunts in
>the Rut!
>
>That ought to Piss The Pope
>off,or at least all the
>sw's & ww's!
>
>God is Great!
>Life is Good!
>And People are Crazy!
>

>I love not acting my age,
>
>Damn I love my NASCAR race,
>
>And Hell yes I love my
>Truck!


Grow up, The DWR success rates don't lie. It's this kind of attidude that is causeing the problem. Sorry...But True!!

 

[Coyote_chaser]

You can offer it to all weapon types IN VERY LIMITED QUANTITY!!! Give 2-3 tags to early rifle and you guys that want to have that advantage can fight it out in the draws for those very special limited tags. If not then people like you get on here and ##### about why there are no more top end bulls!! Cant have your pie and eat it to B-BOP... All these guys on the mule deer forum ##### about late season RUT rifle hunts for deer yet on the other hand they think its the best idea in the world for ELK!

It has nothing to do with stick flippers, its about success rates, we are talking about a 30is percent success rate versus a 95ish percent success rate. Do the simple math, now you know where your top end bulls are!!

 

[TBoneCollector]

I agree with most of what you have said besides the fact that everyones thoughts on a big bull has changed dramatically. Once ones view of a big bull was 300 to 330 class bull and ever since these guide services started and people are paying big money for big bull tags their views on big bulls are now 400+. Whatever happened for people settling for a straight up 6x6 with good mass that scored right around 320 to 340? I don't think the elk herds are suffering. I think it is our thoughts of what a big bull is these days. My father-in-law drew a LE Wasatch rifle tag this year. He put in for 13 years and he invited me to act as his guide and take him out. We hunted hard all week long and saw probably 10 decent bulls a day, but of course since we hear of stories of people shooting 400 class bulls he decided to hold off to see if we could find one. The funny thing is we found one that would have scored right around 380 to 390 and he missed and that was that. He ended up coming home empty handed when he had multiple opportunities of shooting a 330 to 350 inch bull. Sorry to keep going on and on, but if the elk herd is hurting stop trying to shoot the next world record bull and shoot a bull that you would be satified with.

 

[UtahMountainMan]

Allowing hunters to hunt bull elk during the rut is a joke. Where I hunt deer (a LE elk area) it LITERALLY is like shooting fish in a barrel, as was stated earlier.

I dont claim to have a solution to all the problems with Utahs WB, DWR, herd, and hunters, but there are a few things I know...

These are MY opinion, from MY observations scouting and hunting
#1 - We need a larger deer herd
#2 - Utahs elk herd is doing GREAT
#3 - Rifle hunting bulls during the RUT is too easy its stupid
#4 - the WB is a joke

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

Looks like WORKMAN has PMS again!





God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!

I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!

 

[schmalts]

it really don't matter what they do, but if they do nothing the quality will suffer. The heyday of the mid 90's will probably never return with all the added tags. Eliminate spike hunts, cut back on cow tags, and move the early rifle out of the rut further would all help. pick any one, or all 3

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

+1 schmalts! I don't think we need to cut bull tags at this point but moving a chunk of hunters out of the rut would help some.


It's always an adventure!!!

 

[Daxter]

DWR manages based on average age of harvested bulls, not B&C score. When a guys shoots a 11 year old 5 point that cancels out a the guys that shoots a 3 year old raghorn on a unit managed for 7 year old bulls. When the age class falls, tag numbers will go down, when the age class stays high, the DWR raises tag numbers.

also think lots of elk hunters have unrealistic expectations. Many bulls will never score more than 320-330 no matter how old they get. That being said, I also think that the DWR's management is moving away from producing 400 bulls like we were a few years ago.

There are a lot of hunters in the state that want to hunt elk and would rather chase 300 bulls before they turn 75 than wait another 30 years to draw a rifle rut tag to chase 380+ bulls.

Utah has turned into the state of "entitlement hunters". So many hunters think they are entitled to a trophy animal when they get a tag. If you want a guarantee I know several ranches that will score your bull for you before you shoot it, 400+ can be guaranteed.

Dax

There is no such thing as a sure thing in trophy mule deer hunting.

 

[swbuckmaster]

+1 dax

Screw SFW and their BS worthless projects and once in a life time 100% success shoots! This state deserves better!!!

 

[Aggieman]

I agree with many on here that this was a tough year for the LE elk hunts but I still believe that there are plenty of opportunities to harvest a quality big bull in Utah compared to other states. Its easy to get the impression that monster elk are killed by everyone on a LE hunt because we see the pictures on here and we hear of a few. I think many of us go into it thinking that a 350+ bull is around every corner. That was my thinking as well. The reality is most people (including rifle hunters) on LE hunts don't kill 350+ bulls and many don't even see one which is the concern and I agree especially because we wait so long to draw knowing it could be our only chance. However, I agree with Dax in that many feel that because it is a LE hunt, they are automatically "entitled" to kill a giant bull even though most don't.

Fortunately, I was able to draw a LE hunt as an alternate and connected on a 385 bull this year on a unit that isn't necessarily known for such. My little brother killed a 320" bull on an open unit muzzleloader tag and saw several bulls in one drainage. Stay positive and good things will happen. I still believe that the potential for a giant bull on a LE hunt in Utah is better than most states. Doesn't mean that things shouldn't change but the potential is still there and better than most.

As someone else on this post stated, look at some different units (not as well known), spend a little time, and you might be surprised on what you find. I definitely did and couldn't be happier with the outcome.