So. Utah LE Elk Units

[WORKNMAN]

Everyone I have spoke with over the last two years, that has hunted a So. Utah LE Elk unit, whether it was Archery, Rifle, or Muzzleloader says these Elk units are way down on Quality of Bull's. Why? To many early Rifle Elk tags? To many spike tags? To many cow Elk tags? Or "D" all the above!! I would like to hear from you guy's down South that spend alot of time on these units!! Thanks!!

 

[dillon]

I don't know the reason behind the quality of bulls but the herds are smaller. That is because of the over abundance of cow tags each year and the winter snow has made them easy to get.

 

[bergy]

You cant issue the number of rifle tags that they do through the draw/conservation/landowner/CWMU programs and not have it take a toll eventually. The spike hunts will start to show in about 3-4 years. Then a 320 bull will be a monster.

 

[Elkhunter96]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-11 AT 02:03PM (MST)[p]The answer is "D" all of the above. Too many rifle rut hunts, the spike hunt is a very bad idea and too many cow tags. On many of the LE units now, a 330 bull is a really good bull with 350 being an absolute monster...

 

[utahbigbull]

D, all of the above. I know that going from mid teen number of muzzle tags a few years back to me being one of 26 this year has not helped as the same increase has been across the board for all other seasons. They wanted the age objective dropped down and they are achieving that with remarkably efficent suscess. Way to go DNR!

 

[bowhunt]

I think you are going to see some monsters show up next year. It was a tough year for the Elk Hunting in Southern Utah. Hot weather, fires, Moon...
I personally think next year is going to be fantastic.

 

[rackman]

+1 Bowhunt.

 

[bragabit]

I know the early rifle rut tags get the blame for the decrease in quality of bulls in Utah. But the quality has gone down fast since they implemented the late rifle hunts. WE were doing fine with the early tags breaking records every year. Then they issue the late rifle tags and down hill ever since. I know it has hurt Beaver severely. It may just be the total number of tags that is the problem but when late rifle tags were issued that is when I noticed a decline where I hunt.

 

[Prism]

According to the stats in the last 3 years there have only been 19 b&c entries. The three years prior to that there were 66 entries!!!

I feel for the guys that have been banking points forever. They should have used them.

I agree that the late hunts are hard on big bulls. Probably harder on them than the rut hunts....

On the flip side, the tag increases are moving more people through the system and providing more opportunity. But guys shouldn't go into a hunt thinking it's gonna be like it was 2000-2007. Those days are over.

 

[WORKNMAN]

>I know the early rifle rut
>tags get the blame for
>the decrease in quality of
>bulls in Utah. But
>the quality has gone down
>fast since they implemented the
>late rifle hunts. WE
>were doing fine with the
>early tags breaking records every
>year. Then they issue
>the late rifle tags and
>down hill ever since.
>I know it has hurt
>Beaver severely. It may
>just be the total number
>of tags that is the
>problem but when late rifle
>tags were issued that is
>when I noticed a decline
>where I hunt.


Thanks for the feedback...FYI...The early rifle hunt has 95% success overall according to the DWR... The late Rifle tags have 50% success rate overall...I would bet its the number of early rifle tags. The early rifle hunt is a great hunt and opportunity...I hope they always have this hunt...but I would really like the DWR to cut the tags back before their is nothing worth hunting. Arizona nor New Mexico issue out early Rifle tags in this quanity...I think Utah has hit the wall...I hope they react on this matter rather than wait untill the whole state is complaing like the General Deer units!!

 

[WORKNMAN]

>According to the stats in the
>last 3 years there have
>only been 19 b&c entries.
>The three years prior to
>that there were 66 entries!!!
>
>
>I feel for the guys that
>have been banking points forever.
>They should have used them.
>
>
>I agree that the late hunts
>are hard on big bulls.
>Probably harder on them than
>the rut hunts....
>
>On the flip side, the tag
>increases are moving more people
>through the system and providing
>more opportunity. But guys shouldn't
>go into a hunt thinking
>it's gonna be like it
>was 2000-2007. Those days are
>over.


Good Post!!

 

[Gator]

Like Prism pointed out the numbers don't lie.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".

 

[Twoshooter]

The DNR surveys found that more opportunity and smaller bulls seemed to be what people wanted, and it is what they wanted too-more tags. And by smaller bulls I mean a 350 bull instead of a 400. Still a great hunt, but not the opportunity for a 400 that used to be there. I dont think you will ever see it come back.

 

[bingo]

I witnessed this first hand this year after turning in my dads Beaver Muzzy tag the day before the hunt began. The difference from 2007 to 2010 was night and day different on that unit. No doubt part of it was the fire, moon phase and heat but even during the summer I didnt see anywhere near the same quality of bulls. According to the locals I talked too, they also feel it is due to the amount of tags given and many said the late hunt has really put a hurt on quality. With my dad sitting at 15 points and me at 14, it is almost time to apply again and I really still dont know what to do. That being said, im not all doom and gloom. I am optimistic we will still have a great hunt when we draw again. That being said...I sure wish we would have drawn around '06-'07.

 

[Prism]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have another Utah le elk tag. There will be a handful of studs killed every year.

 

[Roadtrip]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-11 AT 10:19AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-11 AT 05:38?AM (MST)

I hate reading these threads, I'm one of the ones who has been banking points for ten years. Are there still any good muzzle units or sleepers that might provide a 350-370 class bull? I don't even think about looking for a 400 class bull because the larger guide outfits will likely be sitting on them for their clients. Would it be better to just bank for 3-4 more years and hope for changes? When I started banking Utah was the holy grail of Elk Hunting.

"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son" Dean Wormer, Animal House

 

[bragabit]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-11 AT 12:13PM (MST)[p]Roadtrip,
I would dare say EVERY unit in Southern Utah gives you a chance at 360-370 class bull. I would even say EVERY unit has 380 plus bulls on them. They are not as many as there once was, but they are still there. You are just going to have to hunt them a little harder and be very patient.

 

[Roadtrip]

That is encouraging. I read so many negative comments these days on the class of bulls left in those units. I started putting in 10 years ago with the notion that when I did hit that tag it would be the hunt of a lifetime for me as a nonresident.

"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son" Dean Wormer, Animal House

 

[ELKOHOLIC]

Roadtrip, It still is the top state to hunt elk. I can't believe how many people complain about it though. The opportunity is still there to shoot a monster bull. If someone need 100% chance at a 400 bull there is always canned hunts!

 

[Prism]

Pretty much any of the le elk hunts are still going to be an incredible experience, but just not what they once were.

I still think if a guy has the points to draw a tag he should seriously be trying to cash them in asap if he's after a 350+ bull.

 

[388Net]

The Beaver Unit has had spike tags for as long as I can remember and it hasn't affected the quality on the unit. The reason the quality is down is you are hunting rutting bulls with a rifle in the middle of the rut... Killing the cream of the crop every year. I think the increase in tags with the late hunt doesn't help also...

 

[Roadtrip]

I plan on hunting them with my smoke pole, not a rifle. I took a bull in CO with the muzz and it was a very rewarding hunt. There you have to use powder, not pellets...no sabots and iron sights. This takes you to 75 yards for a reasonable shot. No guide and I tagged a nice 5x5. While not my best bull by any means (have shot several 6x6) it was a great challenging hunt without a guide. I am looking forward to trying the same in Utah and feel comfortable with being able to use a red dot 1x sight. I hope this is my year.


"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son" Dean Wormer, Animal House

 

[coyoteslayer]

When they started the late hunts, the number of bigger bulls started diminishing. Its not that they killed huge bulls during these hunts, but it is the increase in tags. If you stopped the early hunt or the late hunt, and only give those tags back, the biggest bulls would come back. Its a trade off, you either give less tags and have bigger bulls, or more tags for smaller bulls. My problem is, after seeing 380 bulls hit the ground, it is very difficult to get real excited over a 320 class bull. People who have never experience this, think we are nuts for not getting excited over 320 bulls. Its like killing a 200" buck one year then looking at 140" bucks the next. Its just not the same. Back when I was 16 a 300" bull was way exciting, but there is nothing like seeing a 380+ bull on the hoof. It is awesome. I hunted one of the best units in AZ a few years ago, and had an awesome hunt, and never fired an arrow. Could have killed 15 bulls, but wanted one over 350. Had some close calls but didn't happen. Could have shot a bull last day, but a 280 bull does nothing for me after seeing 380 bulls hit the ground. I guess I am ruined when it comes to hunting elk.
Also, people always talks about how AZ can give tons of tags on a late hunt and still kill big bulls. I will tell you the terrain in AZ makes this possible. Utah would never work that way. The snow and glassing would make this impossible in Utah. Totally different hunt.

 

[WORKNMAN]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-11 AT 02:00PM (MST)[p]I know the Utah DWR wants to create more opportunity for hunters. BUT!! I wish they would set asside 3/4 units for Trophy Bulls. When I say Trophy, I mean 375-400 class. Meet both hunters needs!!

 

[Elkhunter96]

I agree, it would be nice if a few more units were kept at a higher trophy unit level. I would like to see a few units get rid of the rifle rut hunts and see how that affects the bigger bull quality for the unit. I bet in 5-10 years, that unit would have 375-400 bulls crawling all over it. It makes it so the biggest bulls still breed the cows and keeps the gene pools high...but what do I know, I am just a hunter.

 

[HorseCreek]

My guess is that the majority of the guys on here complaining about the quality of the bulls are the ones that smoke the first 300-330 bull they see, they are in 7th heaven until their taxi puts the tape to it and it's NOT 370+. They get on the internet and say the Utah DWR screwd them...The bulls weren't rutting, it was too hot, the moon was full, too many other hunters, Too many tags, and Mossback ruined their hunt.....etc.

The internet has ruined hunting. It's all doom or gloom. I agree the quality has slipped throughout the state but what the hell do you expect? If you think by lowering tag numbers you are going to have 375+ bulls crawling all over the units, you are crazy! A 400" bull needs the perfect storm to reach that potential. Cutting tags is only a very small portion of that storm! Something needs to be done....and quickly! I too don't like the late hunts, we hunt the bulls while they are rutting, then we chase them all over the mountain while they are trying to rest before the winter and then all the shed-tards hit the hills. That sounds like the perfect storm to ruin the elk!


Traditional >>>------->

 

[swbuckmaster]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-11 AT 11:35AM (MST)[p]
They issue the most tags "rifle" in the rut! Then you have to ask yourself what happened to the quality? Its not rocket science if we did this to our deer herds we would shoot the quality out in a year or two!

The only reason we had a surplus of big bulls on these units before was:

The elk numbers were under objective and we could stock pile bulls by restricting the big bull tags. "pre 2007"

Once the herds were at objective they had to cull elk. Hunters with high points didn't want to allow more bull tags so the division was forced to shoot the cows to keep the herds under objective.

Its not the divisions fault its poor decision making on behalf of the wildlife board and sfw and arm chair biologist at the wracs.

The spike tags are the next bad idea that is going to make a dent in our elk quality.

You want to see Utah's quality come back? The rifle has to be taken out of the rut and replaced with a lesser weapon. The spike tags need to be eliminated and the rifle tags need to be cut and replaced with a lesser weapon tag. If you want quality you cant give out as many high success rate weapons during any time the elk are vulnerable.

So basically Utah needs to adopt Arizona's way of thinking. We have more elk then they do and could issue more tags without affecting the quality like we do in this state.

The harder you work the luckier you get!!

 

[WapitiBob]

I archery hunted FishLake in 2010. Passed on a few bulls and saw a few nice ones.
The next to last day I took my one shot and missed. There were 2 groaners that had come out looking for Cows and were maybe 1/4 mile from the hiway.
The last day of season we were bugling the bull I missed the day before and those 2 groaners were not 200 yards from the hiway as truck after truck passed by and looked.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what the prognosis is for Utah Elk hunting 5-10 years down the road.

 

[coyoteslayer]

swbuckmaster_ I don't totally disagree with your post, but having hunted AZ and UT and looking at the terrain. I do not think Utah can be managed for elk like AZ is. You can glass utah so much easier, and the snow drives the bulls down. Most units in AZ are almost impossible to glass. This makes the late hunt less effective in Az then it would be in Utah. I do agree that having the rifle hunt later would save some bigger bulls, but most people could still kill a bull. I still think the extra late hunt tags are what hurt the quality. People are not killing the huge bulls on the late hunt, but they are killing bulls that in 2 years would have been the big bull. I think they could give the same amount of tags and have them all late and it would help some, but not as much as some people think.
I agree 100% with the cow issue. In one unit I love to hunt, they have killed 300 cows and 50 bulls a year for 5-10 years now. That can't be good.
We have to kill more bulls than we were pre2007 that is for sure. I am not sure if spike tag is the answer or what is. If you give more big bull tags out, I just don't think many will make it and then we are hunting 330 bulls all over again. It is a tough dilemma we are in. I think we are going to have to live with the 330 bull and say good bye to the chance at a 370=+ bull and that sucks.

 

[c3]

I'm not a buyer that the sky is falling. I think the quality of the elk is as good as ever if it weren't for the tough weather we've had the last couple of years.

Southern Utah had the most snow ever last year and way out into the spring. The elk were effectively on the winter ground well into June when it finally warmed up. Then in July it turned cold with snow and rain nearly the whole month that stressed the bulls into not growing anything up top. Nearly every where in southern Utah the bulls had dinky fronts, huge thirds from June and dinky tops from July.

Now pile on a dry hot hunt with elk that are finally starting to become educated enough to stay as far away from people as they can get and we see everyone screaming that the sky is falling.

My prediction is that the age class of bulls harvested in 2010 will again be near peak and scores just lower due to weather conditions. It's interesting that the booner years in Utah (2006 & 2007) also just happened to be the hottest summers on record with some of the mildest winters.

Cheers,
Pete

 

[Hawkeye]

I agree completely with swbuckmaster. You cannot continue to give out large numbers of tags to rifle hunters during the peak of the rut where the success rate is 95%, then compound the problem by opening the units to spike hunting where we shoot out the young bulls. Sooner or later something has to give.

The DWR could give out just as many rifle tags if it simply moved the rifle hunt out of the rut. A later rifle hunt would still be a quality hunt but with lower success rates. If you move the rifle hunt back you could increase the number of primitive weapon tags and still see the number of mature bulls increase.

What we are seeing the direct result of greed and several years of poor management. However, this is only the tip of the iceberg and things will continue to deteriorate if we don't make some changes soon. Unfortunately, SFW and the other conservation groups do not want to move the rifle hunt back because nobody will pay 40K for a rifle hunt outside of the rut.

Hawkeye

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