Credit Due on Pauns

M

Muley73

Guest
I just returned from hunting the Pauns with my brother. He was the last of our family to draw. I wanted to post a thank you the all of the groups that pushed to cut the tags on the Pauns and start it back on the path of a Monster Muley unit. The last tags we drew in 1998 where very dicouraging, big change in the unit this year. So thank you to SFW, MDF and also the guys at Muley Crazy for pushing the DWR to do what was right for the unit.
 
Is it worth spending points on again? I am curious because I switched to Henry Mountain because I'd heard the Pauns was not worth applying to the last few years. I have 10 points.
 
I think that the muzzy hunt is worth ten points but the Henry's still has the edge on the rifle. The rifle hunt on the Pauns is always going to depend on the weather.
 
I would like to see the Pauns rifle hunt be moved to a later date. The general public is NOT getting a chance at the bucks that live on private ground. Keep the number the same just move the date back.
Your thoughts?
 
muley, My brother drew a muzzle tag this year. Planing on hunting the 3-9th of Nov. It should be fun!! Glad you had a good hunt.
 
So did your brother get one. If so how big and lets see some pictures.
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Jared
 
Thanks for the props. for SFW, MDF, and others on Paunsagunt. It is headed for world class again fast.

Same with henry Mts. Book Cliffs, vernon and oak creek.

some general season units are doing better than others, i don't want to say, and cause a rush to the beter genreal season.

Everything is getting better !

Now, we can all work together to make every unit in the state of Utah, and all the states in the west better.

It can be done, it just takes time and money.

make sure your brother knows, that even though he is in the waiting period for the normal state draw, there are i believe 9 paunsagunt tags in Expo hunt draw, and HE can apply for Expo tags. might as well do Books, henries, vernon, oak creek to.

a 227 buck came of Vernon the other day, hope to post a photo soon.

United, we can solve almost any problem.

Don Peay
 
Todd,

There is a BIG Expo in Salt Lake City, Jan. 17-20, 2007. It is sponsored by Mule Deer Foundation, Wild Sheep Foundation (FNAWS) and sportsmen for habitat.

There are 200 of Utah's best elk, deer, sheep, moose, goat, bison, cougar, bear, antelope and turkey tags for those who come to the expo.

you can go to www.huntexpo.com to see the 200 permits.

It is $5 per hunt application. Waiting periods and bonuse points do NOT apply to these 200 permits.

There are also 500 Exhibitors who will show their hunting stuff.

Funds raised will go for conservation.

hunters can apply on line at huntexpo today, but MUST attend the convention to activate their applications.

check out the website, then let me know what else you might want to know.

Don

you
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-11-06 AT 07:10AM (MST)[p]Man, that buck is a smoker no matter how you cut it. Good job!
Sorry I didn't post them sooner.


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Love the mass on that bad boy.

'It's all about the gut pile'
 
He is gorgeous. Nice face and an awesome rack.
Congrats!

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
 
Just read my post above...jeesh!
scared.gif


Thank goodness this IS a hunting site!

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
 
Great buck! Congratulations.
Now, could we please go easy on declaring that someone waived a magic wand and the pauns is back in full glory. Every year a couple of large bucks are taken off the unit. This doesn't mean the girl is ready to be declared an over night success. Sure deer numbers on the Pauns are on the rise. But remember,it takes about five to eight years to grow mature bucks. And when you consider that the Alton CWMU and the late season possy hunting takes a serious toll on the older age class bucks, it is going to be a few years, if ever that we common folk can enjoy the unit for what it is famous for.
I'll never understand how SFW can take any credit for anything positive on the Pauns. The unit was originally closed some thirty years ago, only because local sportsmen demanded it be closed. SFW did not exist. Now, the recent tag cuts, at the public expense came two years ago when a local wildlife group (Lowlanders of the Pauns) got together, lobbied the RAC, begged and pleaded with the powers to be to get tag cuts before the unit was totally decimated again. SFW did support tag cuts for the general public but REFUSED to cut into the high roller tags. I'm not sure where the MDF was on this at the time.
I'm fairly optimistic about the Pauns herd. It is headed in the right direction. However it's going to be a few years before we really know. I think mother nature is going to play a big role. Drought conditions are taking a serious toll on the winter range habitat. SFW, MDF can build a water tank or two, but no magic wand will fix the feed problems.
If the unit does ever return to full glory who do you think is going to come looking to get a bigger share of the pie? Something to think about, but I bet the public tags suck hind tit from here on out.
I wonder if we didn't make a huge mistake asking for a reduction in public tags.
I'm with Fin Little on this. The kudos must have been sarcastic.
 
Conch,
I understand that the locals gave a big push for the tag cuts. But I also understand how the DWR works with those small groups, they don't. It does not matter what goes on in the RAC meetings. If anybody believes other wise just attend them for twenty years and see how many issues are completely supported by the RAC that the DWR chooses to ignore. If you have read any of my post over the past several months you will see that I am not a big fan overall of the SFW or MDF but if the SFW was not in support of the tag cuts, believe me that it would not have happened. There have been many issues in the past the SFW have taken credit for that other groups laid the ground work, IE the cap of 97,000 hunters. The small groups will always feel under appreciated, but that is how it has always worked. All I know is that the herd is in better shape than is has been in years past and it was a helluva lot nicer to hunt with 80 hunters instead of 180. I also believe that Utah is headed down a path with private high dollar tags. So I guess I will take what I can get and a tag cut of any kind, public or private, if it helps the herd will be supported by me.
 
How can anyone say Utah is headed down a path with private dollar tags? Take a look friend, it is here. Just in our little nich of the world here on the pauns a landowner tag went from $6.5k average to $11k average in one year. With the CWMU around $11k a pop for there tag at 17 tags that is $187k. The landowners had 20 tags at $11k that is $220k. If my math is right that is $407k. You would think the division could take a little cut from this revenue wouldn't ya to get some more people in the field? We sale our greatest resource for revenue each year. When will someone realize this! No doubt the landowner derserves some compensation. We do. I believe just not at this lick. I wonder what would happen if the compensation for money would be alloted like a a.u.m. is given for cattle? That may sting a bit huh?

I am with you muley73 on the private high dollar tags. I just believe it is here and if the unit produces what it did last year on the muzzle hunt it will only get worse. I also believe the pauns will not ever get back to it so called glory days. That was something special. With high dollar money the way it is used in hunting they will never let it get that good because the demand for results paying that type of money require 5 guides for every paying hunter.

Congrats on the buck!!

Mick,
 
The original post was about giving credit to SFW and MDF for the tag cuts on the Pauns. The Conservation( fundraising) tags have gone from 8 to 18 in the last couple of years. I think everyone agrees that tag cuts are what would help the quality on the Pauns rebound. Credit goes to the sportmen for living with thier cuts and to the private landowners for giving up some tags. I agree the unit will never be what it was before the private tags became involved. Over 50 big money permits every year take a heavy tole on the top end bucks. It would have been nice to see the fundraising tags cut in half. Every tag counts out there.IMO
 
fin little,
I do agree with that 100%. This is why I have asked Tony to take a poll of his membership on if they would support a cut in auction tags. I beleive average sportsman have already spoken by giving up some of their tags already. The credit I give is because as stated before if the big groups do not give the pit boss head nod then the DWR does not feel inclined to react.
 
I heard that there was a new sportsmen group that wants everythig equal for everyone, and it all should be for free.

they are going to propose eliminating the limited draw areas, Paunsagunt, Book Cliffs, Henry, etc. These hunts would go into the general season, and there would be NO cap on the number of tags sold. Unilimited tags, over the counter. That is the way it was in the good old days.

The also want to go back to open, general season elk hunting, no limited areas.

Under these strategies, everyone has equal chances to go kill spikes and two points every year.

Who supports this proposal ?

Don
 
Not me, I say just sell them to the highest bidder where waiting periods and bonus points DONT apply. Oh but wait its in the name of CONSERVATION thats why we give err in mean SELL more wealth tags than all other states COMBINED.
 
Someone does I guess?? You have heard there was a new sportsmen group. The word I would use is not equal but fair. Is it fair to sale a public reource for the price they are getting? What does the public in southern utah get out of the sale of these tags on this unit? Once again I believe there should be compensation. Tell me what the public got out of these tags? What value does the DWR gain?

Your sarcasim gets old, Mr. Peay especially in this little corner of the state. If you can honestly tell me that you are looking out for the best interest of the public on this unit then keep raising the conservation tags and request more for us landowners and CWMU down here. Remember what we are talking about..

And no the pauns is not back to its world class status and it never will be with the sale of these tags. It needs to be changed to a limited entry draw. Limited being the key word!!

Mick,
 
Don, the vernon is nothing more than a general unit, It was over killed the year that it was opened. Sure the genes are there, and it was once a great unit. But why is there twice as many tags there than there is for San Juan, the last I checked there was almost twice as many deer on San Juan. To me this dont make sense.
 
Just thought I would throw in my two bits.
I have been hunting the Pauns with my uncle and his two daughters since the opener, and we have covered a lot of prime hunting country and as of today, Saturday we have yet to see a buck that will break 180", or 26". I have taken in 6 bucks in my taxidermy shop so far and the best is 178" 5x4 25" wide. I am seeing a bunch of small bucks, and a few good 4 year old bucks that will be nice in a couple of years, but we still don't have the older age class bucks that were on here in the mid 80's and early 90's.
I grew up in Glendale on the west side of the unit, and still live here so I've seen it from 1979 when it was closed to 1985 when it reopened until now and I can tell you it's not even close to what it used to be. We had 35" bucks in town back then eating apples in the back yard. Now we don't even see many deer near town.
I had an archery tag this year for the Pauns and during my summer scouting, and my hunt I never saw a 30" buck, or a buck that would gross over 190". In my opinion that is piss poor.
I know there are a few bucks out there that are monsters, and I'm sure a few will be killed on each of the hunts this fall, and I'm sure every lucky hunter will declare the Paunsaugunt the hunters dream and "it's back"! Bullshit! I say. We need time, rain, and less hunting pressure to see it come back even a little bit. This unit always produces a couple of big bucks, but so does the general units next to it.
I think we need to give credit to a good biologist who no longer works for the DWR, and to a handful of locals who are tired of seeing the puny bucks on the winter range for pushing for less tags. Too bad the big money tags weren't cut too. They are the ones that hurt the big bucks the most. Every client has 1-5 guides and spotters and the top end bucks get cut out every season.
Well I have probably said too much now, so I'll sign off. Good luck hunting the land of the 24"ers.
Travis Roundy
 
Good post Travis. I agree 100%
You will never see the Pauns like it was. It's impossible to take the cream of the crop year after year and expect older age class bucks to remain.
We pop the best bucks off the Alton CWMU during crtical times during the year and then turn around and do the very same thing again with the musket hunt.
How many five to eight year old bucks can carry over. I say damned few!
It's darn sad when we have to start thanking "CONSERVATION" groups for letting the general public cut tags to try and save a unit. Shouldn't they be first in line to do the same?
I would like to see money generated from the sale of Pauns deer used to purchase critical winter range habitat on the Pauns. Imagine how much land that could be secured down here for a million dollars verse the one or two acers it buys on the Wasatch Front.
 
I think it's funny that a couple of guys kill a few big bucks and than Don Pea and the likes are the first to speak up and proclaim that the "good ole days" are back. Horse Hockey is what it is! I had a tag for the Oak Creek unit this year. I trained for this hunt all year long. I hunted this unit back before it was limited entry and so I know it very well. I scouted before the season. I hunted and scouted a total of 20 days. I talked to everyone I knew from shed hunters to guides and family and friends. I was up in the morning at 4am walking the rubber off my boots so I could access the ledgy country these bucks call home and returned well after dark. I glassed all day until sometimes I caught myself dozing behind the glass. The end Result was a fair amount of 24 inch bucks with maybe 2 in the 175 class. I have had several piss poor experiences with the Dwr and SFW and I'm about done dealing with both groups. They have their own agendas and they sure as hell don't include the average hunter. DWR and SFW are asleep at the wheel.

Mike
 
I understand the frustartion with all of the unit in Utah as I hunt in them myself every year. I will agree that more needs to be done on every unit to maximize the potential. However less tags on the Pauns whether it is on the Alton or public draws has benefited the quailty of deer. Is it back to the 80s, not even close. Is is better than the late 90s, yes. So I feel it is headed in the right direction, it may not be as fast and it may never make it back to the way it was, but a least something is being done. I now live in Cache county and can promise I would rather spend time looking at the piss poor Pauns or piss poor Oak Creek then what I get to see all week when I go out looking.
 
MIke,

even in the good old days, not everyone killed 30 inch bucks, most didn't

In 1993, the year SFW started, the post season buck doe ratio on the general season units was 7. Today it is 17. SFW members would like to see that at 25.

A lot of SFW members have been "Chasing the biggest buck of my life" this past year on Utah's public lands.

Eleven years ago, you would have hunted your but off and saw a few 2 points. A four point on public land was a rare sight.

Progress is being made.

SFW has a strong membership and will continue to do good things.

The more people invovled, the more can be done faster.

But no matter what, it takes about ten years to see the desired outcome.

There is no question but the drought of 1996-2003 slowed the progress.

so take your cheap shots behind a code name if it makes you feel better.

What is your solution ? And what are you doing about it ?

Don Peay
 
Don, First of all my name is Mike Nielson (all you had to do is click on my profile to get this info, screen names are for fun, and I guess some people do hide behind them).As for me, I have nothing to hide. Call me anytime 435-229-1674. I'm a pretty level headed bloke.
Now what I have done for wildlife: I have given over 8k in cash money to fund wildlife projects here in Utah. I have been a dedicated hunter for six years donating countless hours and equipment on wildlife projects and only harvesting 2 deer in 6 years. I have attended many RAC meetings and have been involved in all of them. I joined SFW and have voiced my concerns to members of the board concerning deer management. I had to call SFW several times to get my "Sportsmans voice" sent to me.So far I have only received one issue. What did I get by joining? I have recieved no news letters, emails, or notifications of events or banquets or ways that I can get involved. At least when I joined the NRA, I receive countless emails and mailings keeping me up to date on the latest issues. If you look at some of my previous post concerning SFW I have given them credit where credit is due. IMO SFW is making a difference on Limited entry units where only the rich or the lucky will be fortunate enough to hunt. Some of the most dedicated hunters and advocates for wildlife frequent this site. Look at the archives and I think you will see that most guys agree with me on SFW. Now, some questions for you Don! Why does SFW continue to support 5 large regions for managing deer when it is so clear that it is not working? Every state in the west has gone to some form of micromangement except Utah. Back in 1999 CO deer herd was in as bad of shape as Utah's. It wasn't until sportman organized, cut tags, and insituted a micromanagement plan that they began on the road to recovery. Now 8 years later CO has some incredible deer hunting for everyone. Every Utah kid grew up hunting deer not elk. Yet, the only thing Utah can manage is every species but deer. I know that SFW does'nt want to be the one to support a reduction in oppurtunity from Sportsman, but the same people that are cursing you for cutting oppurtunity now will be praising you 8-10 years from now.
What is most disturbing to me about SFW is that they will compile pics of all the big bucks and bulls that were killed in 06 on mostly limited entry units where oppurtunity is very small and than proclaim the "Good ole days" are back. Than the average hunter see's that publication and think's wow! the good ole days are back I must be hunting in the wrong place. You are deceiving the average hunter with this kind of bull$hit. I have nothing against you personally Don and I personally thank you for what you have done for sportsman and wildlife. SFW has a publication called the Sportmans voice. As a sportsman and advocate for wildlife, this is my voice. Take it for what it's worth.

Mike Nielson
 
I would have to agree with Mike on this one. Having hunted deer
in utah and nevada since the late 70's, I agree it's time for utah to break up the regions in to smaller areas and manage these areas individually. It works great in Nevada.
 
Mike,

Thanks for the very informative and constructive comments.

I will be calling you personally to discuss.

I will provide a few answers about questions.

1. The last major SFW membership survey - about 3 years ago - showed that 70% of the members did NOT want to cut the state into more regions than 5.

It looks as if it is time to survey the members again.

2. Unless the deer management plans are changed to increase the post season buck/doe ratios to 25 or more, right now they are at 15-20 and average 17, making smaller units only moves hunters around, some units will get more hunters, some will get less. Doing something, that accomplished nothing.

3. If what the majority of Utah hunters and SFW members, and MDF members want is to increase the post season buck/doe ratio to 25-30, it will mean cutting probably 30,000 to 35,000 more tags out of the general season.

If this is done, it would mean an additional license increase, or some other form of funding to offset the lost license revenue, and matching funds of 2 to 1 from the Fed. Excise tax we all pay.

If that is what the SFW members want, and MDF and others want, we will try and get it done.

For the past three years, i have spent the majority of time, pushing to get 1 million acres of deer habitat fixed, getting highways fenced and underpasses put in, buying winter range, keeping wolves out of Utah and keep coyote numbers down.

If we don't do these things, mule deer will continue to decline at a rapid rate. If these objectives above can be accomplished, deer herds could rebound to 400,000 of so deer, and a 65,000 hunter cap, distributed by 10 or so regions would make for some good old days hunting.

I could name specific units where hunters are happy, and specific units witin the same region where hunters are NOT happy. the reason i never name specifics is to try and not simply move hunters from one unit to the other. Making smaller units would fix this issue.

Thanks very much for your contribution to wildlife, there are positive steps, so much more needs to be done. We dug ourselves into a 30 year whole, it is going to take a few more to get out.

If it were up to me, i would cut the deer tags to 33,000 and hunt every 3 years in Utah. The other years, i would go somewhere else, go with someone who drew a tag, or hunt birds.

Or another option would be to have 3 point or better. This would still allow hunter to hunt, but dramatically increase the number of mature bucks, IF hunters would not shoot and leave.

The anttler point restrictions did NOT work 20 years ago, but so many things have changed, perhaps this could be tried again.

So, in reality, we are probably on the same page. I love to hunt BIG bucks, really BIG BUCKS.

I do what the SFW Board tells me to do. The Board does what the members and chapter folks express to them. IN the past, the Board has NOT wanted to change, it is time to survey again.

MM is a great forum to discuss ideas and sound our voices.

What is NOT productive is for people just to call names and #####.

MIke, your comments were very productive, noted, and i will be in touch.

I will also ask that the membership coordinator get your name on the list.


When sportsmen have an issue, please be specific, provide a contact and we will see what can be done.
Don Peay
 
>3. If what the majority
>of Utah hunters and SFW
>members, and MDF members want
>is to increase the post
>season buck/doe ratio to 25-30,
>it will mean cutting probably
>30,000 to 35,000 more tags
>out of the general season.


Don, Now THAT's a good idea!

>If that is what the SFW
>members want, and MDF and
>others want, we will try
>and get it done.

Please!


>Or another option would be to
>have 3 point or better.
> This would still allow
>hunter to hunt, but dramatically
>increase the number of mature
>bucks, IF hunters would not
>shoot and leave.
>The anttler point restrictions did NOT
>work 20 years ago, but
>so many things have changed,
>perhaps this could be tried
>again.

Now that is a BAD idea! Like you said, it didn't work.
 
I personally believe that a three point or better system could work. Yes you would have people who shoot a buck realize he isnt up to regulation and leave him, but wouldnt that outweigh everyone just shooting the first thing with horns now anyway? almost all the bucks you will see this weekend and the few days following will most likely be little dinky two points. so why not try and give those little bucks a chance to get wiser, older, and bigger. thats just my opinion. i would like to hear some opinions on why this wouldnt work, so give me a little insight on your reasoning. just curious.
 
i just have to say that i think the three point or better idea is a bad one. if the idea is to let the bucks get bigger than yea it might work and that would be fine. however, most hunters aren't in it for the horns unlike those of us who visit this site. of course anybody on a web site called monster muleys is out to find the big one. the problem is we are the minority and i don't really think thats a bad thing. how many times have you heard your dads or grandpas tell you that you cant eat the horns. people do hunt for meat. that dont make them wrong. also, your going to have a lot more 12 year old kids going home empty handed and lose interest where that spike could start a fire forever. we have our l.e. units. let them have theirs.
 
I have to disagree with the 3 point or better not working. I believe that it did work. I also believe that the DWR told eveyone that it did not because they did not like the idea to start with. I hunted my fist couple of years in a three point or better area and had great sucess. I was not hunting horns, but it was alot neater to shoot a young three or four point than it would have been to shoot a spike of two point. I believe Utah has already pushed the meat hunters out that are only there to fill the freezer. This has to do with everything from tag costs to gas prices. As far as letting them have theirs while we have the Limited Entry units I disagree. If they really do not care about horns they have the antlerless hunts to off set the LE. Lets do what it takes to make the herd as a whole better and there will be more deer to harvest all the way around. Maybe we would even see an increase in interest all over the state if hunters actually felt they could go out and fill the freezer instead of wasting time money to not see any bucks like is the case in many units in the state.

Don,
Other states have shown that the small units will work. We all like to brag on Utahs elk herd, is it not in small units? Lets get it done before we hit another bad winter or drought to blame the poor deer herd on.
 
Good News For Sportsman. SFW is listening. I had a nice little chat with Don P on the phone last night and they are taking a hard look at micro managment and listening to Sportsman who want to see changes in our Deer herd. If you are ready to see this happen we need to get organized now and let Don or other SFW or MDF members know how we feel. If you are for Micromanagement please send me an email [email protected] or call me @ 435-229-1674 I would like to compile a list of Sportsman who are in favor of this movement.

Mike Nielson

Incidently, I am not in favor of 3 point or better. I hunted an area for years that was 3 point or better and they finally did away with it because it wasn't working.
 
> I believe Utah
>has already pushed the meat
>hunters out that are only
>there to fill the freezer.
> This has to do
>with everything from tag costs
>to gas prices.

You couldnt be more wrong.


-DallanC
 
Why does the LE draws have so many more people than the antler draws? I personally know alot of hunters that just went for the meat and camp out that do not want to deal with the draw and lack of deer. They no longer hunt. We have pushed them away, whether we wanted to or not.
 
>I have to disagree with the
>3 point or better not
>working. I believe that
>it did work.

I guess it depends on what you mean when you say that it worked. If you mean that it artificially selected against genetically superior antlers, then you are correct. I personally saw it produce some MONSTER 2 points in only a few years, which bred more genetically inferior MONSTER 2 points... and so on. Unlike elk, which will grow larger than a spike after their first year, deer don't ALWAYS grow larger than a 2 point. Those are the deer that need to be removed from the herd, not left to breed.
 
Muley73,
If they want meat apply for doe or cow tags plenty of permits there with good drawing odds.
 
I agree that there where some monster two points. However there was also alot more mature deer that where not two points. You are correct that elk do not remain two points, they turn into large five points that we do not seem to have a problem with spreading their genes on the LE elk units. I do not believe that the herd is going to be damaged more than the benefit we would see.
 
I agree, that is why I do not believe the majority of hunters are only meat hunting. Just look at the LE elk draws, is everybody just putting in for those hunts to go shoot a nice young bull for the table?

DallanC,
Can you explain why you feel I could not be more wrong about my opinion on meat hunters not being the majority?
 
I'm still not convinced that three point or better is a bad idea. make an exception for the youth to be able to shoot those younger spikes and two points. this could help reduce the monster two points that can happen. i hunted the books back when it was three point or better and let me tell you the quality of bucks that were there then were great. how does this hurt anything? its not like every buck that survives is going to only be a two point anyway so give those other bucks a chance. i know you are right that this website is probably all here for horns, but i dont think it would bother the meat hunters to bag a 3.5 year old buck compared to a yearling two point, more meat for them anyway. it would seem rough the first couple years but soon as the surviving yearlings grow then the results will start to show. how is giving them a chance a bad idea when there is nothing now?
 
3 point restrictions don't work on deer, seen it implemented in Calif. 20 years ago, we saw lots of 3 & 4 year old fork?s lying dead in those zones, some with 20" spreads, after 4 years of having the point restriction there was nothing but forks running around and the DFG, stopped the program completely...

4 point might work though? A 4-point is not an inferior deer...
 
Like shedmania said leave the spikes and 2 pts to the kids under 18. I think it will work if everybody monitors it.
 
20 years ago, antler restrictions did NOT work, as measured by lots of shot and left bucks.

However, with spike elk hunting, after a few rough years with illegal kills, and still a few knot heads, it is working. As many have said, hunter in 2007 are different than in 1983.

Could be tried with deer, just like it is done with elk.

We could leave yearlings for youth, or if you shoot a two point accidentally, call on cell phone, report it and make a $150 payment, or some type penalty payment that would make you think twice. If you shoot and leave a buck, and get caught, no deer hunt for five years.

Cell phones did not exist 20 years ago. Video cameras weren't everywhere. OPtics were not as prevalent and good.

20 years ago, 200,000 rifle hunters had the mentality to shoot any buck or the next guy would right around the corner, or in your lap. 130,000 less hunters on general seson rifle hunt in Utah.

With only 70,000 rifle hunters, and many more serious hunters at that, it could be tried again.

As one post said, for two years, the harvest would be down, but in two years, look at all the mature bucks. Once a buck survies a hunt or two, he is pretty smart.

While many try to characterise SFW as the rich v poor, it is really more about a group of guys and gals who are willing to sacrifice a year of two, to make things better for the long term. that is what this discussion is about.

Why not try it, under the new circumstances ?? It is the best of both worlds, keep some opportunity, reduce harvest, allow more age class in bucks.

Finally, hope everyone gets excited about working on the habitat and predator issues.

Don
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-18-06 AT 05:16PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-18-06 AT 05:13?PM (MST)

I would support antler restrictions WITH a reduction in permits if youth were allowed to kill any buck. That's a great idea!
 
don,
how do we get this into action? we can talk about it on the internet but how do we really get change happening? just want to see what i can do.
cole
 
Here is how some changes would happen:

1. They won't happen until 2008. The 2007 proclamation is due for comment in two weeks, not time to build large coalition to get changes made.

2. DWR Director mentioned at the end of elk planning meeting, where average ages were bumped back up a year, to keep quality, that the state deer plans were ready for 5 year review.

3. A deer committee would be formed perhaps starting in Feb and work for 3-4 months on looking at options and coming up with a proposal for a 2008-2013 deer management plan.

About June - Aug. 2007, a recommendation would be taken to RAC and Board. Nov. of 2007 the Bucks and bulls framework is set for the proclamation that is published in Jan. of 2008. This would set the regions - 5 units, 12 units, whatever.

Then, in the spring of 2008, Permit numbers would be set to meet management plan objectives.

AS far as SFW goes, several SFW baord members want to look at the deer hunt issues. SFW will want to do a membership survey in spring of 2007. Then SFW Board looks at data and makes recommendations.

Clearly MDF should be on board, as should the Utah Bowmen, and others.

There is an SFW Board meeting Nov. 1. 20 chapter leaders from nearly every county in the state come together to discuss issues.

To get things done, it must be done right biologically, economically, and get as many people and groups on board as possible.

It is my recommendation to the SFW Board to take a serious look at the Utah deer hunt for the next five years - 2008 to 2013. We can ask the DWR Director and Baord to consider looking at options.

I hope this answers your questions, as to how change might take place.

Lets all keep the ideas - all of them out there, and not get into bashing people or groups. that will guarantee failure.

Don
 

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