Forum Fact -vs- Fiction

[WhiskeyMan]

Not trying to be disagreeable or start trouble with this post. I am, however, trying to make a point. Sometimes, things ain't what they seem or what you read.

Believe it or not, not everything you read on the web is true. Sometimes.....even after 20 people have said the same exact thing. Sometimes, after reading the same statement sooooo many times.....people regurgitate it as if it is fact and absolute. Pretty soon it seems to become commonly spoken and accepted as accurate.

Given this, I have some questions.

1) Does this outfitter guide and operate in unit 61 in Colorado? Are these unit 61 bulls? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong as I may very well be. If I am, I retract this whole, entire thread.

2) Are these bulls from unit 61 that sooooo many on this forum have absolutely stated time and again will only produce 280-320" bulls and is a waste of points, time, and money for anything bigger?

3) Are a number of the bulls in this ad over 320" and in fact over 350" with several in between?


http://www.hunts.net/elk Colorado Uncompaghre 3810.html

 

[hangfire]

Not sure on what your getting at here. Seems to me you just want to start a b!tchen match.

 

[ramtagless]

Right off their website. Seems pretty much inline with what I have read online about 61.

"Preference points needed:
Rifle elk, 13 to 15; muzzleloader or archery elk, 15; rifle deer, 7 to 17, depending on the season; bow deer, 5; muzzleloader deer, 11."

"There are many bull elk in the 290 to 330 class. The bigger bulls taken in this unit each year score in the 350 to 380 range"


Do you think they are 100% on 300" plus bulls or do you think they shoot a few raghorns to get to "typically 100%?"


Hunter success Trophy size
Typically 100%. Over all seasons the outfitter accommodates 15 to 20 elk hunters a year and roughly the same number of deer hunters

 

[Cam@strawberry]

People who hire guides have a better chance at killing bigger bulls anyway.....at least in my experience. That does depend on whether the guide is any good at all.

So, those people probably had better chances at bigger bulls than the average joe.

Web pics aren't really the best things to look at, the outfitter is gonna post up the biggest bulls he has killed, not the average bull. So you have a bunch of photo's of the highest end he is capable of rather than what will probably be the norm.

 

[Gator]

Looks like those pictures was spread out over some years and seasons. Every unit will have big bulls in it, You just got to find them and it looks like he has found his share of them.There is some nice bulls in those pictures.

So what is the question you are asking????????? should he be telling everyone how he does it or where has he founded them.



"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".

 

[mntman]

I see what you are all saying but WM is just saying contrary to what many post on the web about 61 not producing bulls over 320-330. I am guessing that he is simply saying that 61 is worth the wait for a really big bull if you put in the homework, effort and pass up the 300 type bull.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[Coloradoboy]

I took the time to look over the page and I would say this outfitter obviously operates in 61 and kills some good bulls. But what you have to take into account is being an outfitter, they most likely have leased private land where bulls can seek refuge and get some age on them where majority of public DIY'ers cant go. Looking through the pictures majority of the bulls are in that high 200's low 300 range with a few in the 320-330 plus range. I've only spent one summer and early fall looking around in 61 and I can honestly say I havent seen a bull better than 315-320. The primary reason I think the bulls in 61 don't get as big as those in the NW corner is because of 1. There are alot more bulls harvested with tags being issued archery through 4th rifle season, where as in units 1,2,10 and 201 no bulls can be harvest after Oct. 11 (excluding RFW in unit 10 and Gov. Tag). Also, the elk in the NW have the Dinosaur National Monument close by and many of them slip in and out of there over the course of their lives allowing them to age, being ABSOLUTELY no one can touch there. All in all, its not total B.S. in saying there are 350 plus bulls in 61, because there are, they just arent a dime a dozen. Heck I've seen 350 class bulls come out of OTC units here in Colorado. But I think the proof is in the pudding that majority of the bulls taken out of 61 each year are in the 280 to 310 inch range.
Coloradoboy

 

[pookiebar]

Big bulls exist everywhere there are elk. You just have to find them. Being an outfitter, it seems to me his job is . . . finding the big bulls for that area.

A DIY guy has a harder time cause he doesn't scout it all the time.

I saw an honest 340-350 class bull taken on a general season any bull unit here in Utah. That was about 5 years ago. And I have hunted the area off and on for 10 years.

The average bull taken on this unit is a rag horn, or young 6 point in the 270 range. But, what do you know this guy caught a big old boy going up over the ridge onto the private property opening morning.

This outfitter surely knows where the big bulls will hide out, again that's his JOB.

 

[westelkman]

No doubt there are/were some big bulls in 61- just ask Gabe at Red Rock [I think] archery shop in Grand Junction- he hunted it for years.

Is it as good as it was- no.
Is it good with 350+ bull potential- yes.

Gabe would be good guy to call if he is still around.

Now you have another issue with some of the photos you see on that outfitters website- camera angle distortion. Some of those whopper bulls you are seeing are in the 240" small 6 pt. range. I've shot a couple bulls that size and took the 'close up in the field shots'- looks huge. Posed the rack with my 6 year old daughter and doesn't even look like the same animal.

 

[kingfish]

Ask the outfitter for references and call them. Ask the references for other fellows they now that hunted with this outfitter and then call the BBB and find out if their are any complaints....

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

In that last paragraph it mentions if You want a Big Bull to try Arizona or Utah!

So He's kinda sayin there's a chance at decent Bulls but not the Big Boys like us TARDS use to have?



I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!

 

[WhiskeyMan]

Okay....I see now where my semi-smart-alecky post is confusing to some. However......some picked up on it.

I'm not by any means after this outfitter. Although I don't use em, this one looks like a good one to me. I also just happen to know that he is a GREAT one.....and has access to some primo private land in 61. This hunting consultant is TERRIFIC as well.....that's why I visited his website in my research.

I am, however, aggravated by hunters who talk on forums and give recommendations in absolutes, "all or nothing" language. I've read at least a couple dozen posts here in the last couple months that state in so many words "only Superman can whack a 320" bull in 61. Expect only a 300. Don't waste yer time......loser unit for big bulls......bigger ones are pretty much unobtainable. The genetics just ain't there."

I am hereby calling BS on those poster's opinions. Knock it off. You might just be responsible for a workin' man spending (or not spending when he should) his $$$ going after his life's dream. To give your personal opinion based on your DIRECT knowledge or experience is one thing. To just pass on BS you've read on the net as gospel......when you really have no idea......is just slightly unacceptable.

I'm considering buying a $4,500 unit-wide LO tag for 61, so I'm exploring every research option I have available. I talked to a good hunter just a few years ago that whacked a 347" bull there and said it could be done again......that they are occasionally there with hard work, smarts, and patience. I want a bull of that size. As always, I'm open to hearing opinions. But, I get tired of trying to sort out the fact from fiction on the web.

Grrrrrrr.

 

[jimmedup]

most people do not know where the 350+ bulls hangout in 61.. they drive the divide road and glass the draws.. and say yup only 280-320 bulls in 61. I have been huntin up there alot.. and I won't give any info on a web site.. but trust me there are big bulls up there.. not behind every tree but they are there.. on public land..

 

[WhiskeyMan]

""Also, the elk in the NW have the Dinosaur National Monument close by and many of them slip in and out of there over the course of their lives allowing them to age, being ABSOLUTELY no one can touch there.""



Hmmmmmmm. VERY off-topic Coloboy...... but one of the best tidbits I've read posted here in quite a while. I knew this myself a decade ago........and my 2009 bull didn't grow dark mahogany and ivory tips rubbing on that NW Colo sagebrush, did he?

 

[Coloradoboy]

>""Also, the elk in the NW
>have the Dinosaur National Monument
>close by and many of
>them slip in and out
>of there over the course
>of their lives allowing them
>to age, being ABSOLUTELY no
>one can touch there.""
>
>
>
>Hmmmmmmm. VERY off-topic Coloboy...... but one
>of the best tidbits I've
>read posted here in quite
>a while. I knew
>this myself a decade ago........and
>my 2009 bull didn't grow
>dark mahogany and ivory tips
>rubbing on that NW Colo
>sagebrush, did he?


Whiskeyman, im not sure whether to take offense to your post or not? But I made the comment to support my opinion as to why bigger bulls are killed in the NW corner each year and Im not entirely sure why this post was even started in the first place now that I think about it. I think the reason most say that 61 doesn't produce bulls over 320, is because majority of the bulls taken aren't over 320. I think I can safely say this because majority of the pictures of bulls I've seen come out of there don't make that mark, nor do the ones I've personally seen while looking around in the summer months, but that being said.... excuse me Im no 61 expert. I know it produces a couple bulls each year over and beyond that mark and you seem to know better than me whiskeyman. Don't get me wrong though. if I had the money, Id probably too buy a land owner tag in 61 and take my chances.
Coloradoboy

 

[WhiskeyMan]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-30-11 AT 10:27PM (MST)[p]"Whiskeyman, im not sure whether to take offense to your post or not?""


Coloboy.......no offense intended. Actually its GREAT praise.

However, I'm gonna disagree with ya on the genetic and 350" potential of 61. Just cuz you ain't seen 'em doesn't mean they ain't there. THIS IS THE POINT OF THIS THREAD!!! Tough, different unit than 2/201/10.....no similarities at all. I've been in 2/201/10 for 30 years. Oakbrush, oakbrush.....and oakbrush in 61. No comparison to NW Colo......not to mention more topo, more roadless, and more rimrock in 61. Bulls do know where to hide. No comparison. The genetics and age class are better than portrayed here, tho. You maybe just had a tough time of it.....as I have on many hunts over the years. No shame in this......it's called HUNTING!

Your off-topic observation about DNM is a TERRIFIC one and one that 99% here will not get. I just thought it was neat to read one of these detailed things here.......that will blow past most.

 

[greatwestern]

Indeed...much like them mesa verde muley bucks...

oh shoot, WAAAAAY off topic!

 

[Coloradoboy]

Im not sure I ever said 61 didnt have the 'genetic potential' to produce 350 class bulls. My point was just to state that that on average bigger bulls are taken in in the NW corner than in 61. I think a main reason to that is 61 is a tougher unit to hunt topographically speaking because of it has rougher, less accessible country than that of the units in NW corner. But in defense there are many places in NW corner that a common man whom hasnt spent much time in it knows about and can't drive his truck too. Don't get me wrong, If i spent as much time in 61 as I do in 2,10 and 201 I think I could turn up a good bull as would most that know a thing or two about elk. The real point I guess Im trying to make here is; A guy whom comes from out of state with no pre scouting done has a much better chance of killing a big bull out of the NW corner than he does in 61. From the little experience I have, 61 comes off to me as a unit you must explore and spend the time scouting before you can turn up a truly big bull.
Coloradoboy

 

[WhiskeyMan]

""A guy whom comes from out of state with no pre scouting done has a much better chance of killing a big bull out of the NW corner than he does in 61.""


Totally agree with ya, Coloradoboy. Wish I could afford one of those 201 LO tags!

 

[Jdan9]

I'm saying unit 40, the pictures look familiar to the ones I received from an outfitter there.

 

[notags2]

I hunted 61 in 2005. It was a great hunt for 300 class bulls. I agree with Coloradoboy. This unit is greatly over rated when it comes to BIG bulls. I would NEVER spend $4500.00 for a tag here. SOME of the photos in that web site are bulls over 320. Not many of them though. When comrpared to units in Arizona or Utah 61 can not even come close to producing huge bulls. Yes I believe 61 can and does produce a 350 bull once in a while. I gave some info about 61 to a MM member BUGLINBILLY. I never heard how his hunt went but he is one of the best hunters I have ever known. I would love to hear his opinion on 61.

 

[HiMtnHntr]

I think the pictures on the website provided are from a few different outfitters. At least a few are from Garvey Brothers, who outfit in 61. I'm no biologist, but I think the age structure, genetics (certainly the genetics), and nutrients available there are different than in the NW corner. I agree that 61 would take more scouting to pull out a 350" bull. The reality is that most guys will not kill a 350" bull in either area and many times that won't be due to lack of scouting. A 350" bull is a heck of bull anywhere in CO. The Uncompaghre Plateau is extremely rugged, thick, and not as accessible as the NW corner, and is a harder hunt for a big bull.

 

[westelkman]

Geez Whiskey, Just coming on here yanking everyones chain.

And I just wasted my time trying to give you good advice....you made your own point about internet forums.

 

[WhiskeyMan]

>Geez Whiskey, Just coming on here
>yanking everyones chain.
>
>And I just wasted my time
>trying to give you good
>advice....you made your own point
>about internet forums.


Not yanking anyones chain as mine has been streeeeeetched to the breaking point with the responses on this unit. Responses.....that ain't accurate.

You posted favorably that there are some bigger bulls in 61. I agree. But...Gabe ain't God although he might be another source of info.

Several bulls in Garvey's ad are 320-350+.......regardless of the ever-present camera angle. Look close if you know something about bull scoring and you'll see. They are there....as the knowledgeable Montrose hunters will tell you.

I also disagree the unit has gone downhill. There are more elk and more bulls than in the 1990's. The only thing that has gone downhill is hunter knowledge and laziness and hunter hardwork. Everyone wants a free ride and then comes here and bitches when they shoot a 280.

Any unit in the west that only has a 300" mediocre gene pool but lots of bulls WILL HAVE a few 330-350+ bulls cuz of the high numbers. The bulls don't all grow exactly the same. I've proved this a number of times myself.