Colorado Bull in EHJ

W

WhiskeyMan

Guest
There's a great article in this current issue of Eastmans' Hunting Journal about a 2009 DIY Colorado typical bull that net scores 376" and makes B & C.......a rarity in Colorado.

There is reference to one of Colorado's "premier" units in the article. My first guess is 201 (Moffat County), but it could be any one of the premier units. If it was entered, this bull would have shown up in Fair Chase magazine.

Does anyone know for certain which unit this bull came from?
 
Not that I will ever hunt it, but is 201 that criss-crossed with private as the author claimed? Or just where he happened to be hunting? Cool bull.
 
That makes sense. The article mentions that they went north and encountered some private. There is a good bit of private to the north on top of Cold Springs. The big pine timber threw me off, but then again I've never spent much time at the highest elevations in the unit, which I think are above 9,000 ft. Good for that guy, one heck of a bull!
 
Would you look at the 201 bulls here! Whoppers for anywhere in the west! Great outfitter.........and a great guy, too.

The fourth bull down in the 2010 photos looks eerily similar to the EHJ bull......almost identical. Compare their VERY small bodies, big heads.......and almost identical racks.......amazing........they must be brothers.



http://www.trophy-elk-hunting.com/index.html
 
Zekers,
201 has some private but as a percentage I don't think nearly as much as most units. Most private is clearly marked but as usual there is confusion at times and mistakes made. Not many though as there are never very many hunters in the unit and most have really done their home work. There is far more public ground than private.
 
bwhite
Yeah, I thought it was mainly public, but the article through me off. Figured it was a different unit.
Whiskey, that's the first thing I noticed, was the TINY body on that bull. Helluva bull, and less meat means easier to pack!
 
I'll second what whiskey man said. John Raftopolus is a good guy and has been in that area a long time and has some of the best country leased to his name. I've had a chance to talk with him multiple occasions while being up there each and every year. He kills some damn good animals up there and the proof is in the pictures. If you want an outfitted hunt up there and have the coin to dish out and some extra for the trophy fee and tip. That being said there are tons of elk in the unit and it relatively easy hunting being the elk are not hunted as hard as those in the OTC units. But with limited time I would say John is your best shot if you wanted a fully guided hunt and access to private land. Just to get you a little more excited the one of the gov tag bulls was taken off 201 this past season and scored 397...
Coloradoboy
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-11 AT 10:27PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-11 AT 10:25?PM (MST)

I'm actually a little happy to see some other guys on this thread who are VERY observant and curious about 201 like me. I like it. Great posts and comments by a couple here. They seem to make the most of not-in-the-field scouting opportunities.......picking up on little details.......just by looking at paper and a computer screen.......never having visited the unit. No question that this level of perceptiveness and thought can lead you to good areas and big animals. I know, I've done it many times.

More for my curiosity about hunter perceptiveness than anything else, I have the following questions. Feel free to respond here.....I'm actually not being a smart-a$$ or mean here. I just think this thread can be an interesting, educational thread for many seeking to learn something here. I'll be nice, I promise.

Questions:

1) What is the most important information conveyed in a field kill photo?

2) After browsing thru all of Raftopolous' kill pics over the last several years..........plus the EHJ article photos.......what are some of the commonalities in most of those photos?? And no, I don't mean the outfitter, unit 201, or Moffat County, CO. Look hard.

3) Do you understand that most older bucks and bulls have habits and behaviors and likes and preferences that are predictable??

I will post more here if ya'll play along.

WM
 
WhiskeyMan I will be interested in your responses, I have taken a fair amount of those pics on that web sight and I'm not really sure what they might be telling you. It is a heck of a good area though. Kind of bitter/sweet, it is so damn hard for us normal guys to get a tag, but that is what makes it such a great unit, mature bucks and bulls, not many hunters! In the spring of the year it is not uncommon to find winter killed bulls that have gotten so old they just dont have any teeth left.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-11 AT 11:07PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-11 AT 11:04?PM (MST)

Bruce,

I'm prolly biased a little cuz I've been in that country. But.........there is sometimes much that can be learned from articles and photos of anywhere......even if you've never been there. I'm thinking.....the photos of some of the most recent biggest, whopper bulls (I may have exaggerated by saying most of the photos).....including the EHJ bull. Not the lower country bulls or those that appear to maybe come from unit 2. While I'm a fan of the lower PJ/sage country.........that ain't exactly what those particular photos are showing me. I'm trying to make a point here that applies to anywhere.....not just 201. Everyone seems to want somebody to just TELL THEM the honeyhole......instead of being observant and figuring it out themselves. Also, I'm referring to people who don't live there and know every nook and cranny....like you. Sometimes you have to gain knowledge about a unit without yer feet on that particular ground.

But you are the 201 expert, not me. Feel free to step up. Do you live in Craig? What in the world made you join this forum and post here?

Also, I disagree with ColoBoy about private land leasing is the reason. Lousy comments from him. This ain't like the rest of Colorado. Ain't 95% of unit 201 public land???
 
Whiskey man never are afraid to call a man out are you? lol Private land leasing? First off Raftopolous is one of the largerst, (if not the largest, i cant remember now days) land owners in all of Moffat county! I think I can poke my nose into this because I grew up in Meeker, so that makes me local enough and two my dad has been running around that country since the late early 80's... and much I've learned has been through him, others and doing my own homework along with helping with a good chunk of hunts in 2,10 and 201. I can't remember vividly saying that "Raftopolus kills all his big bulls on private land"- because he doesnt it's a mixture of both, he just has the ability to do both. Where as the common public does not. Yes 201 has ALOT of public land, but like anywhere it obviously has private land and you guessed it, elk go there and money gets them killed. Im not entirely sure where this post is exactly going.. but yes you can get a pretty good estimated guess as to such an area an animal is taken. The Northwest corner is unique country.. and to most who've seen it, its easily recognizable. That being said, 201 is a tiny unit to begin with so its not to hard to narrow down an area as to where a bull is killed. Thats why Im 2 fan- more country, more diversity of country and the bull quality is just as good IMO.
Coloradoboy
 
Years ago I was talking with a great trophy mule deer hunter. He was THE MASTER at gaining information from others.......sometimes without them knowing it. He told me "some hunters will give you a bogus area in order to steer you away from the true honeyhole.........some will work around the edges of telling you the honeyhole.........and some will straight out tell you exactly where the best big buck spot is in the unit. You just have to learn to judge people quickly, pick up on subtle signs......and be able to separate fact from fiction."

When hunting a new unit that you aren't familiar with and can't get any direct info about the best trophy spots, he told me "sometimes you can observe where a high percentage of the locals go in the unit. They are usually more knowledgeable and tend to know the best spots cuz they live there and hunt it often."

Although plenty obvious.....these are still great tips.
 
WhiskeyMan,
First fact 1.)(only fact)I am not claiming to be an expert. Many people know more much more than I do about 201. Some choose not to advertise it and some claim to know more than they really do.
Yes, we do have the advantage of private land and no, not all of our big bulls come from behind a locked gate. The actual secret to our success is repetiveness. We have the good fortune to hunt every year, not resticted to hunting when an uncle or buddy has a tag. Like any other unit, the more you hunt it the more you learn. The other very successful outfitter in that unit, CJ Outfitters has put just as many years in there as we have. To my knowledge he does most of his work on public ground. He doesn't spend a whole lot of time looking over the fence at private property, he goes where he knows the elk are and gets the job done. He has a photo album of big bulls second to none. His key IMO, hard work and good skills and year after year experience for many consecutive years.
I'm not sure as to % of private land but you are prtty close. I think you would have trouble putting together more than 10-15% private. 90% of unit is usable habitat.
Yes, I am from Craig.
Why I joined this forum? I guess because like most of you, I like "trophy" bucks and bulls.This site has no end to information and cool pics. Not really a meat hunter. I guide because I like to hunt trophy animals and I can't draw the tags myself. If someone thinks it's for the money, they have not guided much. You might do well in a camp that runs 20 clients through in a season but not in a camp that takes a week to fill one tag.
The reason I jumped in here was because you mentioned our photo albums. All of Johns guides take great pains to get good field photo's.We will flat wear a client out trying to get the right picture. Since none of us draw the tags, these are the trophies we hang on our walls! We try to keep them tasteful and respectful. When someone mentions our albums, I am naturaly going to pay attention.
As far as disageeing, yea, I disagree with some peoples opinions but there will be people who read this that disagree with me also, can't win em all!
One thing we all agree on, for most this is a once in a lifetime hunt! So my opinion is, when asking for help or listening to advise, whether professional, or friendly, check your resources, there are a lot of "201 experts" that can't wait to tell you how much they know.
 
The most important information conveyed in a field photo is.............the background.
 
WhiskeyMan,

I see where you are going with this. You never know what kind of info you may get to help you out. Also, why would a person waite 20 years to draw a tag in one of these units and not do some homework on his/her own. In that amount of time you could put in some serious scouting and take a great bull on your own. I myself do not know these units as well as you guys and I would personally not waite that long for a tag in these units. Are there some amazing bulls in these units ? "DAMN STRAIGHT!!!"

Great tips none the less and good luck to everyone who drew a trophy tag this year.

One more thing on unit 2 for those of you who spend some serious time in there. I just heard yesterday from a guy that spends some time up there that 2 weeks before the archery season starts they have private land cow elk rifle hunts which causes the bigger bulls to disappear before the season even starts. Is it hearsay or the thruth ?

Quinton
 
Im my opinoin, there is not much point in trying to hide honey holes in 2,10 and 201. Most the units themselves are honey holes. I can think of no other area in the state that compares to that of the NW corner. Its where I've grown up and its where I love to spend my time I feel that someone that has waited that long for a hunt that needs the help is deserving of some help as to where to go. If it were a tag I drew every year it would be a much different story for obvious reasons. As far as the early cow tag.. Im not sure about that? It might be a private land only deal but I'd have to look through the reg book to verify it.
 
There is a BIG point in trying to find the honeyholes in any unit in the west if you want the biggest and best animal that the unit has to offer.

If you can't get the right info directly.......then you need to use yer head and pick apart tips and tidbits yourself to make it all add up.

My point is manifested in a couple posts of bwhiteCO and HiMtnHntr. Both have said just a few words that are very key to narrowing it down in this unit. If you had this tag and had little other intel........would you be able to pick out these clues that would GREATLY narrow down some honeyholes for you?

What is the difference between a dark-antlered bull and a light-antlered one??
 
WHERE HE LIVES !!!!!!!

Here you go on that note WhiskeyMan. Where were did these bulls live ?

Mine
EarlyElkRifleSeason004.jpg


My brothers
scan0003.jpg


My buddies
IMG008.jpg


My taxidermist
scan0010.jpg


Guess what type of country each one was killed in Whiskey and some were not taken in the same terrain the pic was.
 
I would say weather, terrain (background), and weapon are the 3 most important. From those you can probably figure out the time of year and elevation where they were successful. When you find pictures from year to year, you can then develop patterns based on the weather and season. This is pretty easy to do from many outfitter websites, especially those that list the season a long with the year. That's how I do it anyways. It is fun to scout from your office.
 
>WHERE HE LIVES !!!!!!!
>
>
>Here you go on that note
>WhiskeyMan. Where were did these
>bulls live ?
>
>Mine
>
EarlyElkRifleSeason004.jpg

>
>My brothers
>
scan0003.jpg

>
>My buddies
>
IMG008.jpg

>
>My taxidermist
>
scan0010.jpg

>
>Guess what type of country each
>one was killed in Whiskey
>and some were not taken
>in the same terrain the
>pic was.


Those are unc. bulls. Probably units 61 or 62. Am I right?
 
>>WHERE HE LIVES !!!!!!!
>>
>>
>>Here you go on that note
>>WhiskeyMan. Where were did these
>>bulls live ?
>>
>>Mine
>>
EarlyElkRifleSeason004.jpg

>>
>>My brothers
>>
scan0003.jpg

>>
>>My buddies
>>
IMG008.jpg

>>
>>My taxidermist
>>
scan0010.jpg

>>
>>Guess what type of country each
>>one was killed in Whiskey
>>and some were not taken
>>in the same terrain the
>>pic was.
>
>
>Those are unc. bulls. Probably units
>61 or 62. Am I
>right?

Coloradoboy,

You are correct !! Which one is the 61 bull ?
 
Don't hijack my thread, dangit!

Somebody pleeeeeezzzz answer my last question.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-03-11 AT 09:37PM (MST)[p]>Don't hijack my thread, dangit!
>
>Somebody pleeeeeezzzz answer my last question.
>

Nobody answer!!
This is killing ya ain't it whiskey? LMAO

The species of tree they rub on...

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling
up anyway."
 
>There is a BIG point in
>trying to find the honeyholes
>in any unit in the
>west if you want the
>biggest and best animal that
>the unit has to offer.
>
>
>If you can't get the right
>info directly.......then you need to
>use yer head and pick
>apart tips and tidbits yourself
>to make it all add
>up.
>
>My point is manifested in a
>couple posts of bwhiteCO and
>HiMtnHntr. Both have said
>just a few words that
>are very key to narrowing
>it down in this unit.
> If you had this
>tag and had little other
>intel........would you be able to
>pick out these clues that
>would GREATLY narrow down some
>honeyholes for you?
>
>What is the difference between a
>dark-antlered bull and a light-antlered
>one??


Whiskey man I agree... to some extent. Honey holes mean little to me in an area that I will most likely never have tag. My points were burned last fall in Colorado and I choose to play the waiting game in other states now. Yes I will and have sit on certain areas if I have an immediate family member with a tag. But all of them have pulled a tag in 2,10 or 201 in their lifetime. I get great pleasure in seeing people be successful in taking an animal and experience the hunt of a lifetime. And if I have the time all I ask is to share the experience with them and share some of my knowledge with them. It would be a different story if I had the money to purchase land owner tags up there every year or on a regular basis. But I don't have the money and possibly never will. I like most have my OTC unit areas that I safe guard though don't get me wrong..
Coloradoboy
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-03-11 AT 10:51PM (MST)[p]Thank you TC. You have totally restored my faith in the intelligence of at least some of mankind. Guess I won't have to slit my wrists after all.
 
Bucks and bulls that rub on brush such as sage and oakbrush have lighter colored antlers. Ditto this with those that lived in PJ (Pinion-Juniper) when they rubbed.

Bucks and bulls with dark colored antlers rubbed on conifer trees such as pines and spruce. Conifer sap is known as "pitch", and definitely makes a darker rack when the velvet comes off.

So, antler coloration in a field pic usually tells me a little something.........PARTICULARLY IF THE UNIT HAS BOTH KINDS OF VEGETATION.

However, a buck or bull may summer and rub in one type of vegetation and move 10 miles away to rut in order to find does/cows cuz there are not enough does/cows in the area where he lived in the summer/early fall. So, you might see a field pic that almost doesn't make since......cuz the terrain/vegetation in the background doesn't match the shade of the antlers. This usually means the animal moved from his late summer home in order to rut or winter.

I once saw a game warden in Wyoming issue a citation because of this basic principle. A young hunter brought a nice muley into a taxidermy shop. The taxidermist took his info and asked him which unit it cam from. The hunter indicated a unit that was closed and the taxidermist questioned the unit number given. The hunter went home, read the regs, and called the taxidermist with a corrected unit number......a unit that was still open. The two units the hunter gave were different as night and day. One was conifer heavy (a forest)......the second unit was purely sagebrush. The buck's rack was very dark colored. The taxidermist notified the game warden about the two unit numbers the kid gave him. The first question the warden asked the taxidermist was "are the antlers dark or light?". The warden confronted the kid and he confessed.

Here is my 2009 NW Colorado bull (posted here before) that is the darkest antlered animal I've ever taken. The very minute I first spotted him several days earlier.....I new he had come from the conifer country miles away in order to chase cows in this lower sagebrush/oakbrush/aspen/serviceberry country.

4239bull_4.jpg
 
Nice bull you got there WM (I was going to put in some exclamation points, but decided not to, LOL)
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-11 AT 05:29PM (MST)[p]I don't believe that the only variable in antler color is tree species. Some animals rub aggressively early leaving bloody antlers which results in darker color. Some basically let the velvet fall of which results in lighter colored antlers. JMHO
 
Whiskey man,
Funny but i think i brought up antler coloration in an early NW Co elk thread? Good points you make for sure. Kill a bull in the sage brush and cedar country of NW colorado and then kill a bull in the spurce and dark timbered country.. you'll see a difference. As far making an education guess as to where an animal has been taken by using field photos comes down to ones over all knowledge of the country in the state. Someone whom has spent enough time exploring and hunting different country throughout the state typically will have a good estimate by looking the land scape of the features of an animal in a picture.
Coloradoboy
 
"I don't believe that the only variable in antler color is tree species. Some animals rub aggressively early leaving bloody antlers which results in darker color. Some basically let the velvet fall of which results in lighter colored antlers. JMHO"


SanJuanSlayer......you weren't the kid in my WY game warden story....were you? LOL
 
I agree with NONYAMT, I hate when I have D-Bags trying to pick me apart for my hunting spots.

And antler color is not solely due to what they are rubbing on, a guy I know killed a buck in the book cliffs a couple years ago that had barely rubed his velvet off and the horns were blood red when he died, when the blood dryed he had the darkest set of horns I have ever seen, that buck hadnt rubbed at all,other than to get the velvet off.

Here is a link to that buck.
http://monstermuleys.hunterstrailhead.com/pop_gallery.php?ID=10015


Jake H. SHED OR DEAD IT DONT MATTER TO ME!!!
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
a little sensitve aint we Whisky, LMAO

I had no idea you had intimate knowledge of my hunting resume where you could form an oppinon of me so accurtaly.


"Jake, neither you nor your phony forum hero have no self-found hunting spots. That's the whole, entire reason why you guys are here!!!?

So you think the only reason a person comes onto this website is to try and figure out where other people are hunting, then your the one smokeing crack. And if thats the only reason you are here then that says alot about you.

The funny thing is I wasnt even talking about you in my post, but you seem to fit the bill, a real D-Bag. LMAO

ohh dont tell the moderators on me please ohh please. HAHAHAHAHAHA


Jake H. SHED OR DEAD IT DONT MATTER TO ME!!!
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-11 AT 00:03AM (MST)[p]But I'm talking about you in mine, Jake-a-rama. You plicks don't contribute here.....you only prowl to seek freebies. Thats who and what you are.

Not pissed off, Jakey.......just tired of exchanging knowledge gained by hunting the Rocky Mtn West for 35 years with the classic, never-ending, wannabe's here on LittleWeinersClub.com........who really don't know whether their ass is bored or punched......just like you and your buddy.

Credibility is just like respect..............you have to earn that from me. And how you earn it............is actually posting something useful for all to view. You haven't, cuz you have nothing useful to offer. You are only here to take....not to share......cuz you have nothing worth sharing. Sooo......quit acting like yo da man, okay Jakey?

This thread is about picking up on subtle tips in articles, conversations, photos, and internet posts. It's about how to supplement your own in-the-field-scouting by learning from others. Nothing suggests that a hunter should shadow a great, terrific, MM.com hunter (ooohhh....the best hunters on this planet!!). It's about reading all signs that you come across during scouting in any way, shape, and form.
 
One of my favorite pre-pre-season scouting techniques is to look at the outfitter brochures I receive in the mail everytime I draw a tag. Sometimes, if the picture shows enough background, I can compare it with Google earth and identify exactly where the photo was taken. To those who find this wrong--why would I NOT do this?
 
Gosh you're right NONY....no one could ever use the photos and then scout as well. Nope..you either scout by computer or scout by hiking..can't do both. And since you are also currently "sitting on your ass in front of a PC" you must not ever hike...hmmm.

This is just another tool to use. If I can gather information...ANY information....I will take it. Doesn't make it gospel but why discount something that may prove to be useful?

Oh..and I already have a life..but thanks for the suggestion, *****.
 
NONY--

Yeah I'll share with you...because you seem like such a good guy. I'm done with you. Good luck with your 7 days a week shed hunting.

VM
 
Oh Brother! You ought to get together with Nonya, as you two make a real pair! PS: Please notice that I didn't say pair of what, LOL!!!
 
Gotta admit, tho, TG........that I finally was successful in getting the mods to actually do their job here. Congress was in session this week.

Stryker, I'll respond to your PM soon. My scanner ain't working anymore......so no more 201 pics............but I'll let you know about the incredible significance of seeing numerous kill photos of 201 dark-horned monster bulls............with mature conifers in the background.........in a primarily desert and PJ unit.........that has 90% useable elk turf (as stated by a 201 expert right here on this thread). Notice that I said......"primarily"......
 
WM---If everyone acted like half way intelligent adults on this site, there would be no need for a Mod!!!
 
coloradoboy very impressive. can you brake down each photo and tell me what you see? why its 61 or 62 and not another unit. thanks derreck
 
>coloradoboy very impressive. can you
>brake down each photo and
>tell me what you see?
> why its 61 or
>62 and not another unit.
> thanks derreck


Hmmmmm. Could be the best post on this thread. Unless ColoBoy had some inside intel......
 
I would love to go but have not been there just yet...

I have heard 61 is loaded with Quakee's (sp? Aspen's); and has some very thick cover. I have a very good friend who drew a third season deer tag this year! Maybe I'll make the trip.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-11 AT 11:37PM (MST)[p]Stryker, listen close as here it is for 201. If you have no other inside info........then you can learn the following from observing.

Many photos of MONSTER bulls with conifer-rubbed dark antlers on the RAFTO WEBSITE plus THE WHOPPER in Eastmans' Hunting Journal.........with many of these in dead field picks with tall, mature, conifers in the background.........send the message that those bulls summer, rub, and then rut near the conifers in 201. Some of the biggest bulls from these areas are dark and then still came from a conifer forest.........they've never left the conifers.

Translated.........this means that many of the biggest bulls live and rut in and very near the conifer forests in the unit. Makes sense cuz brushy/forest bulls are always harder to kill and consequently live longer.

With 90% useable area by elk within 201 (as Bruce White correctly stated)..........why not consider the conifer forested areas given the large number of photos of these whopper conifer rubbed, dark-antlered bulls.

So why are the coniferous areas important in 201? Cuuuuuuuuzzzzz..........LESS THAN 10% OF THE 201 UNIT HAS CONIFER FORESTS. That's why.

Those conifer bulls were whacked either on Diamond Mtn, Middle Mtn, or the lower hills just west if Middle Mtn between there and the 3 state corners.......where there is some private.

Google Earth will show you all this. Along with studying BLM maps and also calling the DWM for the are about where mature conifer stands occur.

The small coniferous areas are where to go if you want a biggun and don't have much more time to scout. The west end of Middle Mtn seems like a good place. Ditto that the north side of Diamond Mtn. Expect mucho action in the NW portion of the unit near 3 corners.
 
>>coloradoboy very impressive. can you
>>brake down each photo and
>>tell me what you see?
>> why its 61 or
>>62 and not another unit.
>> thanks derreck
>
>
>Hmmmmm. Could be the best
>post on this thread.
>Unless ColoBoy had some inside
>intel......


Whiskey man,
I go to school in Grand Junction and spent alot of weekends up on the Unc. With friends and by myself when I had some spare time on the weekends. Also had a roomamate from Nucla/Naturita area so he showed me alot of stuff.
Coloradoboy
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-11 AT 00:48AM (MST)[p]Whiskey,
Not sure how much time you've spent in 201. But good bulls can be found anywhere. Yes elk seek the timbered country no matter what area or state they are in, as your years of experience has probably taught you. But I've seen and helped kill bulls in the wide open sage country. You'd be surprised how many large bulls in the NW corner are running around in early October all alone. Some of the biggest bulls taken and seen each year are in unlikely places. My dad chased a bull in 2 that was living right on the snake river out in sage brush antelope looking country, with not a tree in sight and he was all alone. My point to made here is never rule out any area when looking for mr big. The Governors tag bull was killed two years ago in 201 in the bluffs right off vermillion creek. Bulls get big living in areas guys don't think to look... Every one will hunt the obvious areas like Cold Spring Mtn in 201, Douglas Mountain in 2, and Moosehead and Round top Mountain in 10. Its those guys who think outside the box and search areas the common man doesnt think to go often turn up the big bulls who get past guys each year.
Coloradoboy
 
ColoBoy,

I've had more than enough of your 19-year-old a$$ on this website. While this forum is horrifically lame and is indeed toast.........you just ain't it's savior. You're just a babe.

You missed my point entirely......and the entire point of this thread. Here it is again in terms that even a Mesa State College teenie-bopper can understand.

Let me give you a simple lesson in math and odds. Waaaaaaaaaaay less than 10% of "land area used by elk" in 201 is conifers. MUCH MORE than 10% of those 201 kill pics............plus some of the largest ones.............plus the EHJ bull...........are obviously conifer bulls. Those bulls lived there, rubbed there, and were whacked there. If a lucky tag owner has no info other than this photo and research derived information.........what might be a good hunting spot if he wanted a great 201 bull???

BTW ColoKiddo......I'm Colorado School of Mines.....class of 1985......registered professional civil engineer in 4 western states. My math is always correct.........


Middle Mtn looking north, unit 201, NW Colorado, great conifer forest on the north side.
2133middle_mtn_5.jpg
 
Whiskeyman,
In the most sincere way possible... Kiss my ass. I know the NW corner and I know how to find elk and kill elk. Been there seen that. I don't need your opinionated mathematical calculations to prove or make a point to me. Funny story btw... I too was accepted into school of mines (also have cousin who goes there and grandfather who is an alum) But Golden, Colorado, Brief cases and 4 girls on the whole campus aren't for me. Don't get me wrong Im not the sharpest nor dullest tool in the shed... Just chose to stay closer to home my first year of school. As far as some one derived of scouting resources... a pair of binoculars and a spotting scope does wonders in a place where elk aren't to hard to find. Its an 11 day season, might as well make the most of it right? I get your point though.. if someone had no idea where to go and where to look head for the confer, timber country, ya good point . Im trying to make the point not to forget to give the "less likely" country a try... it might turn up a diamond in the rough ;)

Big conifer dwelling bull right whiskey??
1749nwbull.jpg


Coloradoboy
 
Interesting thread. I'm not from Colorado but as whiskyman pointed out, alot of info can be gleaned if you are looking for it. I'll never hunt a premium hunt in Colorado unfortunately but if a guy was lucky enough to get a tag, on this thread alone, there is enough info to get him started on his scouting trips.
Sorry whiskyman, I don't really want to horn in on your mini-feud but the most impressive part about this thread to me is that coloradoboy was able to call the units of those bull pics. "19 year old" "Mesa State College teenie-bopper" or not, I was impressed. Sounds like you may be a little ruffled that he stole your thunder :)
Great posts, I won't look at field photos the same again (and I won't take them the same way either)
 
Bonepicker,
Check out and join "littleweiners.com" as whiskeyman calls it. Its a great place for all us "western hunting wannabe's" to get on and exchange information on how to act like you know what you're talking about when it comes to hunting the west. If you're interested we are hosting a seminar next week on how to scope out field photos!

Coloradoboy
Western hunting wannabe
Little Weiners Club member
:p
 
Coloradoboy,
Thanks! I typed in web site you gave me (littleweiners.com) and realized that you must be on the cutting edge of hunting culture. I've never been on a hunting site like that before, it's not really my speed. Everyone was really friendly though, I just joined as "microweiner" and had a bunch of mentors right away. None of them have gotten back to me since I posted up the pictures of myself that they asked for though. Anyway, here's my bull from last year. I killed a bigger one a few years ago but the pictures were destroyed in a fire. I figured we could start with this field photo. (I'm taking the picture and I had my dad pose with the bull) I killed this one in Delaware, anybody have any guesses on which unit?

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I'll give you a hint, it's one of the units in the BS area.

And for all of you Colorado hunters, here is my mom's bull from Colorado. There is alot of that Colorado skyline in the background so it should be really easy to pinpoint the unit and of course it is really dark antlered so that should give you a clue. Yes, I am taking the picture from inside a thick conifer forest, and the pitch ruined my best pair of birkenstocks, it turned them really dark brown.

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:)
 
""Sorry whiskyman, I don't really want to horn in on your mini-feud but the most impressive part about this thread to me is that coloradoboy was able to call the units of those bull pics. "19 year old" "Mesa State College teenie-bopper" or not, I was impressed. Sounds like you may be a little ruffled that he stole your thunder""


Impressive, huh? Are you kidding me bp? It's not hard to deduce if you know just a little bit about Colo elk units.....and study the photos HARD and use yer brain a little.

There are only a handful of public land units that can produce that many nice bulls among just a few buddies. Those units are 1, 2, 201, 10, 61, and 76. Must be public land hunts.....cuz kids and taxidermists can't afford Colorado private ranch hunts.......like in unit 40......which also can produce those bulls as well. No way that those few buddies all drew the few tags that are available in the NW units, so eliminate them. More importantly, tho, the NW units don't have oak brush like that at all (okay, unit 2 has a little on Douglas Mtn)....so eliminate them based on this. Don't know much about unit 76, but I have a hard time believing that oakbrush, sagebrush, aspens, and conifers all exist there in the same zone like shown in the photos. From my time spend on the Plateau.....I know that it has all those types of vegetation in many places. This leads me to think unit 61.....otherwise known as the west slope Uncompahgre Plateau. Much of it also has thick, mature conifer forests, like shown in the second photo (whopper, beautiful bull!!!!).

One thing that almost threw me off was the size of that second and also the third bull. ColoradoBoy has made it very clear on this forum that 61 absolutely, positively, always, only produces 280"-310" bulls.......with few if any bigger. Those two bulls are bigger than 320".....and that second bull is much bigger than that. This fact almost led me to guess that these must be Arizona bulls..........LOL.

Can I now have my thunder back??
 
""Big conifer dwelling bull right whiskey??""



Big #*&%$ ol' bull, CB. Woooooooow!

Hard to tell since the rack is highlighted in the light.......but it looks like it might be a fairly dark rack. If it is.....he dwelled in the conifers during rubbing season. Explanations for the open country kill site might be:

1) He left his conifer home and traveled into more open country in order to find cows during the rut. Bow in photo demonstrates that it was a rut hunt.

2) There is a thick conifer forest just over the rise.

3) This bull has a little weener and is a wuss and had his a$$ run out of the conifers by lesser bulls and moved out into the open grass prairie away from the other bulls so he wouldn't get his pathetic a$$ kicked all the time.
 
Im thinking you might be right here whiskey. This bull kinda showed up out of no where to be honest. Found him out running around in the sage brush all alone and the rut hadn't really got hot yet. A few soft cow calls and he came running! Have had the best success killing big bulls with archery tackle before the rut gets hot and they have a few extra sets of eyes watching out for them. Doesnt seem like a dominate herd bull wants to leave his harem in a place with such a high number of bulls and not a whole lot of cows. From what I've seen a fair number of the older bulls that are packing heavy on top do get their a$$es kicked by the 4 and 5 year bulls during the rut. Which sends them packing and they turn into lonely, love sick nomads.
Coloradoboy
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-30-11 AT 00:57AM (MST)[p]As far the bull quality in 61 goes... I actually did a project for my wildlife biology class at teenie bobbie state in which I studied elk numbers and elk behavior on the unc. plateau. I observed alot of animals and majority of the better bulls I saw were in that low 300 class. Look at majority of the bulls killed out of there each year and they are "typically" in that class. There are some that are above that mark most definitely, I just try to give guys an educated opinion on what they should realistically expect to see so they don't burn a large amount of points with the expectations of going and seeing multiple bulls that will score 350 and kill one. Same goes for the NW corner as you would probably agree. Majority of the herd bulls in the area will score in the 320s-340s and a guy will most likely have to look through about 15 to 20 mature 6 plus point bulls before he finds one in that exceptional class. I feel that the proof is in the pudding that 2,10 and 201 have the ability to produce 350 plus class bulls year in and year out for multiple tag holders. On a side note my ability to break down country and make educated guesses on what areas photos come from. Is from simply spending alot of time in the woods and learning as much of the state possible, along with pursuing a minor in physical geology which allows me to go and see areas such as Colorado National Monument, Dinosaur National Monument, The West Elk Wilderness, The Maroon Bells and so on...
Coloradoboy
 
WhiskeyMan,
You could have your thunder back except there is no getting around the fact that coloradoboy called it before you did. The thunder is his this time.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-30-11 AT 07:52PM (MST)[p]""WhiskeyMan,
You could have your thunder back except there is no getting around the fact that coloradoboy called it before you did. The thunder is his this time.""



Dang.....those aggressive youngsters are always quicker than us middle aged fat, outta-shape guys. I used to be one of those fawkin little plicks.....
 

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