300" vs. 320" vs. 350"

T

Thunderhead2

Guest
For those of us who live hours away or are just plain inexperienced it can be difficult to judge the size of a bull.
I am not all about inches but i do want to take a mature bull. So i have been studying the trophy pics extensivly. Heres what i have come up with.
"In general" bulls in the 320" range are going to be 6x6s with fairly good length on there 4ths & 5ths.
For bigger bulls there going to have more length of beam, long tines on top and lots of mass.

I realize this very generalized. What do you think?
 
Yes it's VERY generalized. Too much so. Browtines and thirds are extremely important as well and can significantly impact the score.

VM
 
Width is critical too. I shot a bull last year with good tine and beam length with diecent mass. But he only had a 39 in spread. Spread credit took him from a 350-355 bull down to a 340. he was a beautiful bull and the total score did not mean a hill of beans when I seen him.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-16-11 AT 12:31PM (MST)[p]Width and great brows like this one has add a lot to the score, as utahbigbull mentioned.

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I killed a bull in Wy that was tricky, the tine length width were all great, but he had a short main beam. I think it was only 49 inches, a tough bull to judge on the hoof.
 
I know when you get up twoards those 350" bulls they have to have everything.
But if your not used to looking at elk, i dont think you will have much luck at guessing tine/mainbeam length and width.

Do alot of sub 300 bulls have big bottoms and weak tops?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-16-11 AT 05:40PM (MST)[p]http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos/43342010_trip_081.jpg

This bull was shot by John last year about 200 yards from where the pictures of that 6x7 were taken in 2007. This one scored 357 3/8" according to the Cody taxidermist that is just about finished doing him on a pedestal mount. This one has more mass and very good overall tine length. I got video of the 6x7 as we called him in and John was taking a lot of pictures as he came in broadside to less than 30 yards with not a twig between us. The only problem was that nobody drew a bull tag in 2007 and we were just calling as we were scouting our area for deer on the way back from an Idaho Shiras hunt. We think that bull had brows and 4ths close to 24", which make his 3rds look short and they weren't. We figure he scored as good or better than this bull, but seeing as how he's probably still alive unless he died of old age we really don't know his score. All in all, it may have been the most exciting few minutes that I have ever spent in the outdoors with an animal of that caliber that close displaying and bugling his head off. Both those bulls were on public land in a Wyoming LE unit.
 
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This is a bull a friend took in the same meadow with his bow in 2009. It grossed 285" and got him a P&Y award certificate. He's a very nice bull that I think everyone would be proud to take with a bow or gun, but you can sure see the difference between him and those big herd bulls in score.
 
Great pics and bulls Topgun!

You really need it all to score well. Mass, tine length, beam length, width and to top it off, you need symmetry. Score is way over rated IMO. If you stop and think about the difference in a 360 to 380 bull is only and inch and 1/2 per tine. Pretty tough to call on a rut crazed bull thrashing trees and constantly moving.

Here is an example of 2 bulls grossing very different scores and netting within 2 inches of each other. I am very proud of both of them. They mean a ton more to me than score. The memories are awesome!

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I found a thread on Bowsite that ask people to show pictures of 300" bulls. Looks like my inital criteria would apply to most 300" bulls.
 
Silenstalker---Thanks for sharing those great pictures of two really nice bulls with a bow! That one sure was mudded up wasn't he!!!
 
Yeah, He was completely black when I shot him. Some of the mud had dried by the time I found him and took pic's. We killed 2 elk that morning and trailed the other one 1st. It was unreal the excitement and adrenalin pumping! One of the best days I have ever had hunting. Man I love hunting elk!
 
Here is a tricky one to score most people think he is a lot bigger then his score, he grosses just over 370, most people think he is closer to 400" but he has short main beams and kinda short fronts.

Elk are tough there is a lot of inches to count!

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Great bull with extras and plenty of mass, but if the beam length doesn't go well up into the 50s the score suffers. Who cares though, especially with bulls like we are posting on this thread!!!
 
I know alot of folks like width on their bulls, and it makes a huge difference in score, but in all reality.....it is dead air space. I like total gross inches of bone :) Nice bulls to all of you who've posted
 
>I know alot of folks like
>width on their bulls, and
>it makes a huge difference
>in score, but in all
>reality.....it is dead air space.
>I like total gross inches
>of bone :) Nice bulls
>to all of you who've
>posted


I agree, more bone the better. For me, nothing is better than a big framed typical. However, for field judging or for those interested in overall score- you cant overlook width. This bull's score caught me by surprise when it had 60" width. Scores much higher than it looks.

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What these guys are saying is very true, the bull has to have the total package to score really well.

I will see if I can find pictures of my brother in law's bull to post up with mine later. But basically you have two very, very different bulls that score within 2 inches of each other. My bull has not got any great width, and beam length is not great either. But the fronts are awesome, and the 4ths are very strong as well, total score is 295. But hey I would shoot him any time on that hunt again.

Brother in law's elk, I could literally fit my rack inside of his, it is that wide. The mass is huge, and back end is fairly strong. But the fronts are vitually no existent. His score is 297.

For fun we measured just the strong attributes of both racks to see what the score would be. So we measured 1-3 of my elk, as well as the 4ths. Then we took his mass, width, 5ths and overall beam length and added them together. With both "strong" attributes put together the two bulls barely pulled a 330 score.

In short, the bull better have good length on all points, as well as good main beams and width or you won't get a bull above 320.
 
My bull from last year had the fronts and decent mass. Not a great spread but a weak back end. 5ths were there but short and the main beams weren't terribly long. I was still very happy with him and he scored just under 310" gross.

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Here he is back at the house with my son. He could just barely reach from tip to tip on the back of the antlers.

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Maybe some day I'll shoot one bigger, but this one was big enough to go on my wall as a shoulder mount. Speaking of which, I think I might need to call my taxidermist!
 
The 60" width isn't scorable, unless the main beam length is also 60"... So sometimes width is over rated as far as score goes...
 
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Here is another bull just shy of 300 for you to look at . I think if his other third was intact he would have been just a little over 300 .
 
hey guys im just wondering wat you think this bull might score. . . i have no idea! thanks. im 6 ft 1 if that will help any
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"Better to dwell in the wilderness, Then with a contentious and angry women Proverbs 21:19)
 
Here is a 340 bull killed here in New Mexico 2 years ago. It's almost time to do it again! Good luck to everyone this year!


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A method that has served me very well over the years in N. Utah is that a good bulls frame is 190-200. 50" beams, 40" spread 55-60" mass. I want to see his beams to the top of his back when his head is down on flat ground. Beam length fools lots of people and like the score sheet above can cost 15-20" really fast. With a good frame the bulls times still need to average 15 to be a 350 bull. 15" brows look pretty good but not great. 15" 3rds look really good on the hoof. When actually measured 4ths over 20 are pretty rare in N. Ut. So if the 4ths are 18 you need 5ths 12" long to get to 350. 12" 5ths look really good on the hoof. So there is my base and I start adjusting from there. After you've looked at a bunch of elk and then seen them dead on the ground 38-40 is pretty typical inside spread. 35 looks narrow, 45 looks wide. Brow tines need to get out around the nose and normally if they don't curl up much they are short, etc. Anyway that has got me very close on many, many bulls.
 
Birdbuster, makes good sense. Sounds like a great way for field judgment. I didn't have the chance to see my bulls head down as he was coming right into me from around a corner.

333 gross, 320 net
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GBA
 
Eric---I sure like the way you did your bull, especially with the added arrangements of the waterfall, and can't wait to get out there to 6A with you in a few weeks.
 
Lookin forward to it TOPGUN, Im getting pretty excited about it.

And thanks, I like how he turned out too.

GBA
 
Absolutely nothing wrong with 333. Sometimes hunting you have to make a quick decision. Beautiful bull and taxi work.
 
Thanks Birdbuster, Im pretty happy with him as it was a DIY Archery hunt. I posted a hunt story on him ?My Muddy Bull? ?I will pass on to my Taxi what you said about his work. He really went out on a limb for me and got my bull done within 7 months as well. I built the pedestal for it myself and posted my step by step process of building it on a post ?Finished bull pedistal? here on the elk forum.

GBA
 
Here is a Fishlake bull my daughter took a few years back. It has everything you could ask for looking at it.. Great fronts, devil tines, extra on the left side, good tine length, but only had 44 and 45 inch main beams. It scored 383 gross but with decent main beams would have hit the magical 400" mark. Needless to say, the short main beams would have never even made us think to pass on this bull, on about any unit...
Just go for a bull you would be happy with. If you are going for score, you can count on being dissapointed!




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Is that a big Mother or what! What a beautiful bull, extra and all! Congrats to your duaghter and if she betters that one in her lifetime she better hire on with Mossback!!!
 

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