Poached Buck

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sneak

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No picture of this deer yet, but I hear it was a real monster. Saddened and angered by the greed of this guy, and also by the relentless roads and well pads literally destroying much of the remaining deer habitat in western Colorado right now. This buck would never have been seen, let alone poached, if it weren't for a 6-mile road into virgin country all for the sake of a single drill pad on the side of a cliff....

DOW CHARGES GAS WORKER IN THANKSGIVING DAY POACHING CASE

A 36 year old natural gas worker has been charged with illegally killing a trophy buck deer north of Parachute on Thanksgiving Day. Colorado Division of Wildlife officers arrested Joseph L. Chapman of Provo, Utah as part of an ongoing enforcement effort to reduce poaching incidents in the expanding gas fields of western Colorado.

On Wednesday, Dec. 6, Chapman was arrested and transported to the Garfield County Jail on the following charges:

CRS 33-6-117(1)(a) Willful destruction of wildlife. Class 5 Felony. 1-3 years in prison and $1,000-$100,000 fine, if convicted. Hunting and fishing license suspension of one year to lifetime in Colorado and 23 other states.

CRS 33-6-120 Hunting out of season. Misdemeanor. $592 fine. 15 license suspension points.

CRS 33-6-109(1) Illegal possession of wildlife. Misdemeanor. $700
fine. 15 pts.

CRS 33-6-109(3.4)(a) "Samson Surcharge". $10,000 fine.

CRS 33-6-114 Transportation and exportation of wildlife. $50 fine. 5 pts.

Officers with the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources assisted with the investigation.

It remains to be seen how many of these charges and penalties get plea-bargained away by the prosecutor. What do you guys think?
 
The sampson clause is for a 4 pt buck whick may or may not be a monster. I read the email today and was wondering what the buck looked like too.
More than likely he will spend a few days in jail and pay $10,000+ in fines.
It would be nice if the penalties were more stiff or the jail/fines really stuck....
Jeff
 
I don't think we will see more harsh penalties until we as ethical and responsible hunters act as one voice that can be heard. So instead of us complaining and whining, maybe we should take action and help make poachers be prosicuted to the fullest extent of the law. I for one would be more than happy to do what it takes to make sure poachers are treated like the felons they are.
 
Based on the fact that the Colorado DOW and the Utah DWR combined to make an arrest and put forth a detailed press release right away would make me think that this case is of utmost priority if nothing else than to get the word out and possibly scare other dumbassed individuals from doing the same thing out in the gas well/deer winter range areas of Utah and Western Colorado.

Not only does he have the Colorado charges pending, he took the buck over state lines to a taxidermist in Utah( no really! freshly killed deer with no tag!) and is facing felony Lacey Act violations if I'm not mistaken. Its bad for this guy and its going to get worse if I was a betting man.

From what I have heard, this buck was a whopper non typical with two huge drop tines. The buck had been photographed alive recently by a few different people, who all wondered how he was going to stay alive through the winter with all the gas well traffic on that buck's winter range.
 
Call me stupid, but is this not one the main reasons we argue about how bad poken holes every 1/4 section is on our deer resouces?

Habitat issues asside, the roads, which allow access, are devistating to deer. I'd like to hear from the guys who continue to say oil and gas wells are just AOK for deer and how it does not bother deer a bit. . .

Sure we need the gas and oil, and we can get to it, but first we need to make the drillers and the extracters more responsible. They also need to take a page from some of the new technology now manditory in the great white north. Fewer pads, more directional drilling and a much smaller and more managable footprint, AND NO ACCESS!

All of this is not to take the heat off the guy who shot the buck, but the fact that there's access makes it possile for some people to be where they dont belong.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-06 AT 06:46PM (MST)[p]TF, the oil and gas companys in that area acually do alot of directional wells in that area ( N. of parusute) in fact I've seen them drill 25 holes off of one location. how do they do no access to the wells up north. that would be great if they could do it, but its along ways away IMO


MM Member since 1999. Jake H
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-06 AT 07:25PM (MST)[p]First of all it is my opinion that we must, together, prioritize wildlife and its habitat. Some, but not all places are just better left for the deer. As a hunting community we need to work together to ensure that our voices are heard and that we help energy companies and the public land managers produce better plans. I do not often hear from people about how precious deer are. I hear a lot about how precious oil is, but for some reason deer do not get much support, even from organizations like the MDF. The MDF does not help much as it does not like to get political . . . it prefers to NOT piss of the deep pockets!

Access management is not perfect, especially in wide open country, but having lots of access restrictions and a tight travel management plan help. It does not stop it all, but the point is that access management, weapons and employee restrictions all MUST be an integral part of the plan including enforcement.
 
Tshot, you have the "lets make a law" mentallity of the left wing extremist's. Restricting access and weapons (I can't believe you even said that here) will effectivley stop all the law abiding citizens from carrying weapons and accessing our public lands. Those who chose to ignore the laws ALREADY in place will continue to break them, regardless. The criminal broke several laws in the process of taking that deer. Do you really believe one more law would have stopped him from doing so?
 
The point is access, too much and it's a major problem with oil and gas in the west. Lets by like you and take a do nothing attitude. It's not 1945 sir. . .

If that guy worked for me and was on the job with a gun, he'd be gone! If he worked for me and that was my field he shot that buck on, on or off the clock, he'd be fired.

Let me be clear, no guns in work rigs no hunting in areas where you drill/work if you work for me. There has to be some rules.
 
No, the point is that this idividual chose to break law #1. Taking a big game animal out of season without a permit. The road and the gun have no part in the crime. They are inanimate objects. Once he chose to break law #1 the next series of laws broken did not cross his mind. No additional laws would have stopped this.
Maybe we should punish the criminal, not the law abiding rough necks with a .250 behind thier seat shooting coyote's after work.
You sound much like Mrs.Sahra Brady, "we need to ban handguns because someone shot my husband with one". Well for your information Mrs. Brady and Mr. tshot shooting people with handguns and shooting deer out of season has been banned for quite some time.
There are plenty of rules, making more solves nothing. Lets do something with the criminal. The real problem!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-06 AT 08:56PM (MST)[p]
Good grief. . . its too bad we dont live in that world, if we did, we would have no need for any laws. . .
 
TF, I am almost sertain that all the oil and gas companys have rules stateing that there employees are NOT allowed to have firearms on there gas feilds while working. so most of the stuff you are proposeing is already in afect. And I agree with you on the road issues it sucks that they have to make all the roads they do. I know Willams is working with the RMEF in colo. with winter road closers and stuff like that. So some of them are doing what they can.



MM Member since 1999. Jake H
 
A good friend of mine found a buck in the same county as the buck referred to in this post and he is already a 220 class non-typical and is no more than 4 1/2 and is possibly a 3 1/2 year old. It's a buck with a young slender face a smaller body and has unbelievable extras on a small frame. He is possibly what we believe to be the kind of deer that will make the 270 and up mark if he lives another couple years.

The problem is he is wintering too near a few well pads and roads and both my friend and I don't see how in the hell this buck could make it another two years. He presents way too much temptation for some people that work in an industry already plagued by serious poaching problems.

Most of these gas companies have very strict rules about carrying firearms, though it doesn't seem to stop those who really want to shoot these bucks. Wyoming, Utah and COlorado are all experiencg problems with this illegal activity and mark my word, they will make an example out of this fella and others to try and curtail it as much as possible.
 
I hope they do make an example out of him. Its an age old problem, if there are people out there, they will see the big ones and some will kill them. Whats good about having the law abiding folks out there now is the "cell phone" revolution, where you can be in contact with the law in a matter of seconds. Many have cameras, etc. Now I don't own one, and probably never will but it might be enough to keep the one citizen from going over the line if "he" knows there is someone else out there. Poaching sucks no matter what creed or color you are. We preach about the indians doing it, now we have whitie on whitie land. Lets NAIL HIM upside down on a cross like they did in the old days with a sign strapped to his chest. Here is a "horse theif". Maybe when the punishment overrides what they get out of it, the glory, the prestige, the money, or whatever fires these people on, it will stop. What T is saying is true to a certain extent. Limited access will keep more people out. BUT....when you put up a gate and block a road out in the national forest, there is always an idiot that drives his jeep around it, or his four wheeler. When you water bar or tank trap a road, there is always someone that runs his snowmobile over it. The forest service makes rules..."NO FOUR WHEELERS" allowed on this road. They post signs, and sure enough there are four guys tearing the hell out of the snow and the road driving up so they can get higher than everyone else to hunt the elk coming into the feeding station. Face it, punishment is the key. MANY people think that the law doesn't apply to them. If you have the balls to take a gun to your workplace, then bust a deer on public land, then be stupid enough to take it to your taxidermist without a tag, OUT OF SEASON. Do you think they have the brains to.........
 
Make the drillers and the gas companies responsible for tresspass. . . It's a legacy issue, one's there's a road and once there's an oil field, the gas company should be responsible for it until is reclaimed. . . The private sector can do a better job of policing their fields than can the government. If the gas company got nailed too, there would be much less poaching going on. I know that draconian of a system would keep honest guys out too, but I'm willing to let them deer winter without my seeing them. . . so long as they are protected from poachers. . .
 
Has anyone seen a link to the story on this guy. This is not a first for this guy. He was quistioned about a big deer that was shot in Utah County a few years back.

BasinBoy
 
Buckspy,

Maybe a little civil disobedience is in order to save the buck? Splat him with a couple of paintballs and he'll be pretty shy until he drops his horns. If the DFG says anything, you can just tell them you were doing it because their lazy asses were gonna let him be poached...
 
Yea, that's it run what little meat he has left on his bones after the rut, and then he'll do great when there's a week of sub zero temps and crusted snow. After that he'll be dead, then you can go pick up his carcas and own the scull and the antlers, heck, you could even get it entered as your own if you like. . . Wow, great idea, lest just start pushen all them deer around in order to save them from poachers. -
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-06 AT 11:48AM (MST)[p]TF your a joke. you got alot of hate in ya man.



MM Member since 1999. Jake H
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-06 AT 11:52AM (MST)[p]dont even know what the word means. . . I'm sure my kids and community would differ with you . . . Take care, by the way, I thought my reply was as obvious as the one from old man, dah!
 
I agree 100% with TFINALSHOT about guns at work. Its WORK! Your paid to do a job , period, then go back and turn in the rig. If A GUY WANTS TO SHOOT COYOTES ,then do it on his own personal time in his own personal vehicle. Guns shouldn't be allowed in work vehicles as in these oil/natural gas rigs, its not like they are gonna get hi jacked... Shooting deer or any other big game animal with paint guns is dumber than hell, hit one in an eye and now theres a blind animal. You can not twist shooting an animal with paint guns into a positive means , period.
Fact is poachers can care less about laws , so when they are caught , elected officials(judges they go before )need to get consistant and hand down the max penalty and then enforce getting the due restitution . Jail time max enforced and once released , a % of pay checks garnished to pay debts....
 
Maybe they would, I guess it could be classified as pent up sexual frustation.;-) But as far as yours being as obvious, I dont know about that. You've had to much of an oppion on this thread to take it jokeingly. My bad. I never thought to consider that you might acually have a sense of humor. :)


MM Member since 1999. Jake H
 
So let me get this straight. The only people shooting deer out of season are oil/gas workers? If we ban oil/gas workers from possesing firearms the problem will be solved? You guys make as much sense as a screen door on a submarine. Your giving a group of people a bad wrap for the actions of one person.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-06 AT 12:43PM (MST)[p]There is a forest in them trees isaynunya. . .

Access is the main issue. Take away the access and you take away the biggest part of the problem. Adress the roads and the access as a result of the roads. Even with the roads, if the developers were made responsible for the tresspass, you would hardly see any!

NO ONE believes it's just oil and gas guys, it's the whole issue of destroying the ONLY place where bucks can live and grow up. . . And if you want you even can belive the real issue is the guy breaking the law, but lets get real, this is an imperfect world, we cant trust everyone, so yes, some inocent must pay, that's reality. So, sure the guys broke the law, sure the gun did not kill the buck, but that buck would not have been killed if not for the guy having the access. It's only one piece of the whole puzzel.

The point i tried to make was that here's an example of what I and other's have been saying all along. . .

Try not no miss the real issue here.
 
I didn't single out these oil workers. You brought them up , they are refered to as rough necks here in NM, so I was simply responding in an example form , read my post. My older brother serives pump jacks throughout unit 2 here in northern NM, so I was not putting a black eye on these hard working people.
My point is I said I agree with TFINALSHOT about guns not being allowed in company vehicles . Theres good and bad in all types of people whether it be contruction workers or office workers , I was not singling any certain type of worker out into a negative light...
 
Well then since you agree with tshot. Then you would agree that your brother is a potential poacher and cannot be trusted. He should not be allowed to possess a firearm since he has access to the oil fields. Since he is your brother and might possibly give you information on a large buck seen while performing his duties. You can not be trusted either. Are you seeing the forest now?
 
Do you just want to argue? I'm not saying anybody should not possess a firearm or that these people are POTENTIAL Poachers. I'm saying these workers or any other workers outside of law enforcement with the exception of a few other jobs that a persons life could be threatened SHOULD NOT HAVE FIREARMS with them while at work. Yeah I could be a potential anything and yeah I could fall into the catagory of not being able to be trusted , so could you or anybody else for that matter. Thats not what the thread is about, how ever opinions were spoken and I was simply saying I agreed with TFIANLSHOT about workers "IN GENERAL" NOT CARRYING GUNS.
 
isayNUNYA, I also re read your posts , and I do agree with what you say about laws already being in place and doing what the law already has.I also agree and also spoke that these law breakers do not have any respect towards any law in my fisrt responce....
 

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