found dead in the bookcliffs

justr_86 · Jan 28, 2007

a friend my wife and i were driving in the bookcliffs. and just at the top of woods canyon we saw about 50 crows 2 bald eagles and a coyote about 150 yds off the side of the road so we walked up to see what they were chewing on and it was a 3x4 buck that was about 24 inches wide with some serious potential. if you could cound all the trash on him he would be an 11x14 but most were only at the most a half inch. and he had a bullet hole in his shoulder but you couldnt tell much else because of the predators. i called the fish and game and they didnt seem to care much. "we will send an officer down if he gets a chance." is what i was told. WTF man that is a bunch of krap i think. i am still kinda waiting on them from a previous case in the bookcliffs that i was promised a tag for the 06 hunt that i never saw.
just thought that i would share it with you guys. i'm getting frustrated with this i might not try to go through the trouble again.

muleydoc · Jan 28, 2007

That is discouraging to hear. That is my biggest concern currently with the Book Cliffs. With all the new roads and increased traffic in the area it seems it will continue to be a problem. It makes it to tempting and easy for someone to take advantage of an opportunity to poach an animal. I hope I am wrong but I bet there are a lot of top end animals that end up getting poached in these areas with too many roads and too much vehicle access. Even though I have enjoyed hunting this area in the past the amount of traffic out there any more has made me seriously think of applying in a different unit. I know there are areas out there still that you can get away from the roads but it is pretty discouraging to see the way the country has changed over the last few years. Thanks for trying to do the right thing anyway!

Muleydoc

NickJ1980 · Jan 28, 2007

LAST EDITED ON Jan-28-07 AT 10:05PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-28-07 AT 10:05?PM (MST)

The Bookcliffs unit has a full time patrol from what I understand. I'll bet all of the officers are getting a lot of calls right now since this is the heavy time of year for poaching.

I wouldn't sweat it too much if the office person didn't take it seriously. She will do her job and let the warden know and he'll check it out.

Even if he doesn't get to it right there while you're waiting it's not like he's off scratching his @$$ somewhere. You'd be amazed how many calls these guys get and how many cases they are working at any given time.

You need to keep reporting these if you find them--whether or not you get a tag. It's BS that people need an incentive to do the right thing. How hard is it to make a phone call and know you did what you could?

Thanks for reporting this one, though.

grizzmoose · Jan 29, 2007

Good response Nick. I totally agree.

smilesgv · Jan 29, 2007

I hate to bring this up, but the gas and oil workers are possible cause of alot of the poaching. Here in CO there is article about oil workers shooting from the road at night in the Colorado Outdoor magizine. There have been a few other cases in the state with oil workers enjoying fresh vesion on thier pad. Last week I found a poached cow elk 1/2 mile from a well pad with one hind quater and backstrap gone. Maybe the oil/gas folks could donate some of thier big $$$ for extra law enforcement. No that would not work, they would loss to many workers.

NickJ1980 · Jan 29, 2007

All the bigger companies in NW CO will fire an employee ON THE SPOT if he/she has any firearm in a company vehicle. I would guess that they're doing it off duty if they are the culprits, other than the 10% that really doesn't care or think they'll get caught.

My point is that the oil/gas companies do recognize the problem. They do give to wildlife as well. Encana works closely with the CDOW in improving turkey habitat, and also allows a women's turkey hunt and a youth/women's cow elk hunt on some of their properties near Rifle. Some of the others aren't quite so good about it.

I know a lot of these guys are from parts of the country where deer aren't such a precious comodity and with the open country and bunched up winter herds I bet they don't think they're hurting anything.

They're not the only poachers by any means. There's still the local yokels out there trying to put a trophy rack on the wall and the selfish turds who shoot whatever they see out of boredom.

Three winters ago I ran into a sheepherder while I was coyote hunting. I knew just enough Spanish to learn that he hadn't seen whoever it was who brought his groceries for 3 weeks and that he ended up shooting a little buck. I asked him why he didn't kill a sheep instead and basically gathered that he would have been fired and turned in to Immigration...

I think there are solutions, but nothing will stop it completely. We could start by getting people to volunteer to patrol public land and call the DOW when something happens--the same as the Minuteman concept on the border. It would be nice if the oil companies would hire some security personell of their own--really it would be in their best interest anyway to keep people from messing with the pads and equipment.

Long winded, but my great uncle (he was more like a grandpa) was a Game Warden for a long time so poaching strikes a nerve with me.

sealer · Jan 29, 2007

Nick,

It sounds like you work for Encana. Drop me a PM sometime...possibly something in common. I HATE POACHERS!!!

Drew

WesternSky · Jan 30, 2007

Some of the gas producers do employ security but it is usually when they own a large section of land that needs monitored. They could be doing more with their security personel though.

I believe most of the poacher occurs in remote locations where security would face a big task in patroling the miles of dirt roads.

One of my duties at work, is to maintain our safety policies which include preventing contraband( guns,drugs,alcohol) from being present in our vehicles and our employees cars, when they are on our clients property. We cant check every vehicle everyday though. If person premeditated a poaching we could not do a whole lot to prevent it. Most of the polices would curb the spur of the moment incidents.

The larger producers and subcontractors, like ours, have these polices but there are a lot more smaller companies that dont keep track of there employees as closely.

Basically it boils down to the fact that employers can only do so much and it is more about personal choices made the people in the field.

NickJ1980 · Jan 30, 2007

LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-07 AT 08:32AM (MST)[p]I located phone lines from DeBeque to New Castle for 2 years, so I got to know a lot of Encana guys and I had a chance to see a lot of their property.
Then this past summer and fall I had a temp position with the CDOW and got to know who the good companies were and which aren't so good. I also got a chance to see what DWM's really do and they earn their keep.

justr_86 · Feb 2, 2007

poaching strikes a nerve with everyone i think. everyone that wants a quality herd. it really makes me mad as much time and money and energy we put into it some jackass will always screw it up. why do they shoot them? so they can say they did? just to shoot it and not even walk up to it or use any part of it in any way? it really makes me mad. the reason i feel like i dont want to report anything anymore is because of the reaction i get and the stuff that i do to help catch the people and it always gets haulted at the politics part. they broke the law they should pay now. not five years down the road when they figure out who has jurisdiction. in which canyon in the bookcliff. or any other canyon in any state for that matter. in the last 2 years i have found and reported 7 head of elk bulls and cows and probably around 30 that i have helped the fish and game find from word of mouth about people bragging. still to this day not one has been closed and nobody charged. I'm just frustrated with the system as all of you probably are too.

Roy · Feb 2, 2007

The biggest problem you are having is evidence - or lack thereof. Really all you are giving them is a carcass with little or not much else to go on. It is very very difficult to recover slug evidence from a deer or elk carcass and when it is possible, unless the slug is already in a database they can match the riflings too, there is not much else to compare it to. Most high powered rifles used in poaching have never been involved in other crimes and guess what, CSI is just a T.V. show. That stuff takes time and corroboration. If you have heard people bragging it is just hearsay, and most often can't even be used in an investigation let alone a prosecution. If you see it happen, you get the license plate number, description of the subjects, location, names if possible, etc. and then you have something to give the DWR. Other than that, what really can you expect them to do?

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)

justr_86 · Feb 2, 2007

LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-07 AT 07:25PM (MST)[p]I give them all the evidence in the world on most cases. most of them i give names. what gun it was with what day what time. why they were there. who was there. why they did it (which mostly is just because). the ones i hear them bragging about anyways. just like they say the animal is laying where they say. i call the dwr and take them to the animal. they start making the case. and someone decides they dont have jurisdiction in the exterior boundaries such as the bookcliffs. so the case gets put on hold and they still get to hunt every year because they have not been convicted because the state is fighting over who gets to charge them. between the utah state government and the federal government is what i am told.

i know its hard to make a case with just finding a dead animal. i know not every one is going to be solved. the ones the people admit to still dont get charged because of the government disputes.

the ones i just find out hiking i dont expect much other than maybe they find a bullet and can tie it to another case. it has been done before. and will happen again but the "maybe we will get to it" thing makes me kinda mad. i know they are busy but thats bad.

i'm just fed up with the politics part of it. i dont think it should be that hard and its obviously not my first time around.

Dub · Feb 2, 2007

I found a bear that had been poached on the boulder mountain. It was a good 3 miles from any road, and I gave the F&G the GPS coord. They hiked in, found it, and then called me and told me all the information they found on the bear. I was impressed.

Dub