Utah Newspaper Thinks We're Idiots

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My dad wanted me to share this editorial by the Ogden based newspaper, The Standard Examiner.

Here's the article, along with the image (below) that personally offends me as a sportsman. They might think the image is funny, but the suggestion that sportsmen are as irresponsible as those shown in their cartoon is highly offensive.
It takes "Guts" for a newspaper who most likely has a large readership base who hunt, to publish a cartoon that portrays us as a bunch of idiots driving around in cars with hand guns on the dash and our kids shooting from the back seat.

They attached this image to an editorial that suggests that "they" know better than we do, when "OUR" kids are responsible enough to shoot a rifle at a big game animal. They have failed to mention in their editorial that 12 year olds have been hunting with shotguns for MANY years and that under the suggested rule change a 12 to 13 year old would still be accompanied by an adult. The editorial is clearly an attempt to worry and scare those who are not complelely up-to-speed on the issue.

http://www.standard.net/live/opinion/editorials
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Hunting with children
Tuesday, January 30, 2007

"Guns aren't toys -- they're for family protection, hunting dangerous and delicious animals and keeping the king of England out of your face."

-- "The Simpsons"

That quote, delivered by the character Krusty the Clown, was played for laughs, sure, but it's also a statement of fact: Guns aren't to be taken lightly. Indeed, they are not toys.

That's why we continue to believe that House Bill 67 -- which has passed the Legislature's House of Representatives -- is a bad idea. It would lower big-game hunting's permissible age from 14 to 12. We're talking high-powered rifles, here, not BB guns.

There are a couple of reasons this measure has popped up again for the second year in a row. Foremost, Utah's Wildlife Board is concerned that the numbers of big-game hunters in the state are declining. Board members say it's because fewer younger people are taking up the family traditions of the hunt. Ten other Western states have lowered their big-game hunting ages in an attempt to encourage young people to pursue the pastime, and so Utah wildlife managers would like to do the same.

We have nothing against hunting. It's an honorable, enjoyable and family-bonding experience when done safely and responsibly. We know -- we hunted a lot in our younger days.

But we're concerned about the difference in maturity between 12-year-olds and 14-year-olds handling high-powered rifles. There is no room for error with weapons like that.

The Wildlife Board points to the other Western states' experience, and says they have not experienced higher accident rates since lowering the hunting age.

We'll take them at their word.

But we would hope they would likewise accept as true that an extra two years of maturity at age 14 makes a big difference in a child. Our society places all sorts of age restrictions on youth -- we make them wait to drive, to vote and to consume alcohol or tobacco, all because we feel society is best served by a more mature person in those circumstances.

We had to laugh, in fact, when the bill's sponsor, Rep. Curtis Oda, R-Clearfield, was quoted in a Salt Lake City newspaper arguing in favor of his proposal: He said he got his first BB gun at age 4 and killed 3,000 birds over the course of a summer. Someone should break the news to him that the story is an argument against letting younger children have guns.

As we said in this space last year, there are doubtless lots of kids out there who could handle a big-game weapon responsibly. But there are others who could not. We think there is value in having 12- and 13-year-olds hunting with their parents and observing them until age 14.

The decline of the hunting culture is upsetting. But the remedy is not to begin handing rifles to younger and younger children.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/User_files/45c13de30c65ccb1.jpg
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Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Actually, The article makes sense to me. I never grew up shooting animals before I was 12. Never had the opportunity to hunt big game until I was 15. I still love to hunt. I am sure others started hunting much earlier, but their passion to hunt is no more than mine. The article clearly states the need to maintain or grow hunting in Utah. I do not see it at all as Anti_Hunting. I agree completely with them on the "3,000" birds issue.

The biggest threat to the hunting culture in Utah???? The trophy direction wildlife management has taken. How can a kid learn to hunt and enjoy the activity if we manage for 400" bulls? How many deer hunts will we get to go on if the talk of 25 bucks per 100 doe goes through? The opportunity to hunt has been taken away from the hunting public. It is an inches driven system, not an opportunity driven system. We are now being told "So what if you don't get a tag. Just tag along with some lucky friend who draws." That will keep those 12 year olds hunting.
 
I can see their point, understand the article and all, but all they state is a opinion, of their own which is weak at best. They need a little more facts to back up statements like that.

The cartoon is atupid....enough said.
 
The cartoon is stupid and offensive. However I don't feel comfortable with 12 year old children packing any high powered weapon.

I started hunting with my Dad when I was about 6 years old. Did everything with him except pull the trigger. Worked for me.

Got my 1st 22 when I was 12, my 1st shotgun when I was 14, 1st deer rifle when I was 16. I don't think I missed a thing.

You don't have to pull the trigger to experience and love hunting.

RUS
 
There's nothing wrong with having a yes or no opinion about the
bill! The problem is with influencing negative opinion to the un-
knowing public by way of the newspaper without revealing all of the
facts of the issue! This article was written to purposely distort
the intent of the bill introduced. It's written to make not only Mr.
Oda, who sponsored the bill but also the UWDR look like a bunch of idiots! Suggesting they support a bill allowing a bunch of untrained
little kids to run wild with high powered rifles! Some people may think this is just the editors opinion but the intent is to encourage the general unknowing public to take that same approach!
I personally spoke with Mr. Porter and he admitted exactly that! I
know this is an opinion article but where the public is trying to be
influenced don't they deserve to hear all the facts of the matter?
I reminded Mr.Porter that 12 year olds were already lawfully hunting
small game with shotguns! No matter! I asked if it was a safety issue, he refused to answer!
Sportsmen can't afford to have half truths printed for negative
publicity! And when newspapers conceal facts and print only half truths it's an anti-gun,anti-hunting measure!
Bud Latturner
 
I think the statement made by the bill's sponsor gives us more "negative publicity" than this editorial.

The statements made show both sides with facts. "The Wildlife Board points to the other Western states' experience, and says they have not experienced higher accident rates since lowering the hunting age. We'll take them at their word." Then they give their opinion.

I tend to agree with this statement from the editorial: "there are doubtless lots of kids out there who could handle a big-game weapon responsibly. But there are others who could not. We think there is value in having 12- and 13-year-olds hunting with their parents and observing them until age 14."

"The decline of the hunting culture is upsetting. But the remedy is not to begin handing rifles to younger and younger children." This a golden quote.

"Board members say it's because fewer younger people are taking up the family traditions of the hunt." Why? Because the family can't get tags to go hunt traditionally anymore.
 
Sorry but I didn't really read the article as being very anti youth hunting but more of an article that kinda questions the total age group going to hunt and be afield.

The cartoon was kinda comical although it seems to imply hunters marry dumb blondes and that the daughters are going to be the same when they become an adult woman...

Hell, how many posts do we read a year about road hunters?? rifle's in cab of truck or goofballs on lawnchairs with bow's in the bed of trucks...

As far as half-truths/mis leading... we get that on a weekly basis from our wildlife groups... agenda vs truth kinda deal...

Before the youth can hunt they have to have someone to take them... and if the adult/mentor isn't able to obtain a tag why waste the effort with a youth...So the adult/mentor takes his-her hard earned Utah money and goes to Idaho or Colorado even Wyoming for the adult/mentor--youth to be able to hunt with a quality hunt tag.

Oh yeh.. the Utah General tags.. thats an experience that will keep the youth wanting to hunt....

Robb
 
Don't you know it takes a village to raise your children? You need the Government, in all their glory, to tell you when your kids are ready.


Sincerely
Hillary.
 
IF YOU LOOK AT MOST THINGS THE DWR HAS DONE OVER THE YEARS!!!

THEY WERE THINGS THAT CREATED MORE MONEY!!!

WHEN I WAS FRICKEN YOUNG,I HAD TO WAIT TILL I WAS 16 TO SHOOT OUT THE WINDOW,JUST KIDDIN,BUT I DID HAVE TO WAIT TILL I WAS 16 BEFORE I WAS LEAGAL TO HUNT BIG GAME!!!

NOW THERE ARE KIDS AT AGE 12 THAT ARE OLD ENOUGH TO HUNT BIG GAME,THERE ARE MANY THAT ARE NOT,HELL I'VE SEEN TARDS 40+ YEARS OF AGE THAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE A GUN IN THEIR HANDS!!!

AS I'VE SAID FOR MANY MOONS,NOT EVERY TARD IN UTAH CAN HUNT TROPHY ANIMALS EVERY YEAR IN UTAH,SURE YOU CAN HUNT DEER EVERY YEAR BUT LIKE PleaseDear SAID:"THATS AN EXPERIENCE THAT WILL KEEP THE YOUTH WANTING TO HUNT",WELL I AGREE WITH HIM A LITTLE BUT YOU MUST ENJOY THE HUNT FOR MUCH MORE THAN A TROPHY ANIMAL EVERY YEAR CUZZ IT JUST AIN'T HAPPENING!!!

IT'S QUITE SPENDY THESE DAYS FOR YOUTH JUST TO DO A GENERAL HUNT OR TWO AND THEN TO TOP IT OFF TO NOT EVEN GET A Nomad TYPE BUCK IT GETS THE YOUTH TO WONDERING IF THEY EVER WANT TO DO THAT AGAIN!!!

AS HUNTERS WE ARE A SPECIAL BREED & WE WILL NEVER EVER LET EM BRING US DOWN!!!

AS FAR AS THE CARTOON GOES,THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A BUNCH OF DUMB-ASSES TRYING TO BRAIN WASH THESE JOKERS THAT DON'T HAVE A CLUE!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING TRYING TO BREAK OLD HABITS OF ROADHUNTING IN UTAH MIGHT BE A HARD TRAIT TO BREAK,ITS BEEN BRED INTO SOME OF THESE TARDS FOR SEVERAL GENERATIONS!!!
 
I think the article is fine, The author points out that hunting is ok, they just think 12 is a little young. the cartoon is very stupid and distasteful. My daughter is 11 and if they pass the bill I plan on taking her hunting. I'm sure that I will have to pack the gun and if we see a deer I will get her set up to shoot. I think its fine to let the kids hunt as long as dad or uncle or someone is devoting total time to the 12 year-old
 
They aren't seriously considering letting 12 year old kids hunt big game are they?

Surely you jest....
 
I find this pretty darn funny! No not the cartoon, that is just plain distasteful. Here in Montana, the legal age to hunt is 12 years old. I cant recall hearing of any 12 year olds involved in hunting accidents. Id venture to say that there are 12 year olds that are much safer than adults on this site! As for packing a high powered rifle, a .22 will kill just as dead, and how long have kids been shooting .22's? Look folks, a 12 year old hunter is only as safe as their adult hunting supervision.
ismith
 
I agree, a young hunter is only as safe as the adult that is supervising/teaching him. Back East I've been told that there are no age restrictions to hunt big game at all. As long as he/she can pass hunter's safety and are accompanied by an adult they are legal to hunt whitetails or whatever else they so desire. Personally I think this is the way it should be. No doubt some 12 year olds are to young to hunt and carry guns around and their parents should have them wait until they're ready, but I'm also positive there are some kids much younger than 12 that could hunt with an adult and have no problems. I think the whole idea of having an age restriction law is a waste. Why not let the parents take care of their own kids and forget about having the state tell us when they are or are not ready.

NvrEnuf
 
I think your reading to much into this cartoon. From my expirience working with non hunters they wouldn't let this type of thing sway their opinions of hunters. Most of them wouldn't hunt themselves but are ok with hunters in general. I think you have to know when and where to pick your fights so be very carefull what you react to. Just my opinion.
 
I would suggest to those that feel hunting has been slighted to write a letter to the editor in defense of hunting and HB67 and one in support to your congressman. In fact approach the Standard Examiner for space to offer a rebuttal, I would imagine they would be happy for the counter point opinion.
I agree with 2point, the real threat to hunting in Utah is not the age but the opportunity. Don't get me wrong research has proven exposure between 10 and 13 years of age determines a childs interest and future participation in all areas, sports video games, drugs, school, hunting etc..
Someday I hope the DWR, Legislature and SFW wake up and realize the restrictions we are placing on hunting with a trophy mentality will become the downfall of hunting. Look around you the fastest declining age demographic of hunters is the 25-35 year old, lack of opportunity and success have resulted in them choosing other recreation i.e. golfing, boating, atv/snowmobiling etc. Without mentors the 12 year olds don't have a chance.
In the mean time the "tards" will keep their blinders on and believe because we killed the most "publicized" 400" bulls Utah is the "best".
How did Montana kill eleven 400" bulls with a new world record P&Y and still sell thousands of over the counter elk permits for any bull and hunters choice. Believing Utah provides the "best" in my opinion is very near sighted and will be the limiting factor for Utah.
One last question; How do you become a "tard"? If you are a native are you a tard, if you live here more than twenty years if you ever shot a nomad buck, or is it if you live anywhere but in bobcat's house!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-01-07 AT 11:34AM (MST)[p]I wasn't overly offeneded by the article. I think it has some valid points. The cartoon is just a cartoon.
It really doesn't matter to me at what age we decide to take our kids hunting. The kids will emulate what ever dad or mom are doing. Were losing hunter numbers not because of lack of youth interest but because of lack of opportunity for the average Joe. I think the average working class man can see the writing on the wall. Special interest groups love to spout off about all the opprotunity they and the wealthy have created for all of us, but from my perspective it's just litle bit different. I agree that the opprotunity for the rich man is there. But for us common folks...well open up a a draw odds book; even I can understand that math.
The hunting tradition was passed down from my grandfather to my dad to me. sadely, I'm doing my best to discourage my kids from getting hooked.
Mr. Don Peay stated in another post that things in the West are changing like never before. In my opinion, that's too bad.
 
It's a stupid argument that twelve year olds are mature enough to handle shotguns but not high powered rifles.

The opinion piece is not worth the paper it was written on and it is anti hunting. Just becuase they say they aren't against hunting doesn't mean the tone of the article isn't anti hunting. Anything that doesn't support hunting is against it. From reading their piece a uneducated person would take it that we are just sending 12 year-olds out into the hills alone. It also ignores the fact that 12 year olds are routinely hunting other animals with highpower rifles they just can't hunt big game.

But I grew up in a world were they had trap shooting in highschool and you brought your shotgun to school for class. Now you can't even have the gun in your car without facing felony charges.
 
FYI

From the Deseret News:

Study conducted by/for National Shooting Sports Foundation.

A 2006 study suggests there are more hunters in the United States than previously thought. Nearly 12 percent of Americans 16 and older, or 26.4 million people, said they hunted with gun or bow last year. The study is by the Outdoor Industry Foundation, which usually focuses on contemporary pursuits such as paddle sports and rock climbing. It is the organization's first look at hunting. NSSF is optimistic, yet wary until further studies are completed, since veteran researchers maintain more conservative figures. NSSF-commissioned research shows 23 million Americans consider themselves hunters, even if latent or inactive. The National Sporting Goods Association reports 20.6 million active hunters. U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service surveys show 14.7 million people, or about 5 percent of Americans, purchased a hunting license last year.


? Show Cornell University researchers a young hunter, and they'll show you a future environmentalist. A 2006 study shows that children who hunt, fish or play in the wild before age 11 are more likely to grow up with deeper understanding and respect for nature.


Domestic outdoor activities, like gardening, also positively influence adult environmental attitudes and behaviors, but their effects aren't as strong. When kids become truly engaged with the natural world at a young age, the experience is likely to stay with them in a powerful way, shaping their environmental path, Cornell researchers say. Interestingly, participating in Scouts and other formalized outdoor education programs has no effect on adult attitudes toward the environment.
 
I completely disagree with this article. I was taught from a very young age to treat every gun as if it were loaded and only aim at what you intended to shoot. I killed my first deer when I was alot younger than 12. It wasn't anything record book only a two point. But I gained alot of respect for the animal and the gun that day. There are alot of 12 year olds I would rather see hunting than some of the 40+ year olds that I have seen out there. I agree that someone under the age of 14 should be accompanied by an adult when big game hunting. But kids can be taught the right way to handle a gun at age 12.
 
I didn't mind the article too much but I did not like the cartoon. I agree with a couple of the others that it really comes down to the parents supervision to decide when someone is mature enough to hunt big game. I like idea of having the option to hunt at 12. That doesn't mean that every 12 year old needs to start packing a high power rifle around shooting out the window at big game.
 
I've had a chance to think about this one for a minuet. I really feel the DWR is only concerned about declining revenue. If they can some how get 12 year old kids to pony up (would have to be their parents in most cases) they would increase their potential income. The thing that concerns me is, say Dad and junior put in separately and junior draws and Dad doesn't. Is Dad going to take time off work to chauffer junior? Sometimes yes sometimes no.

How about rather than offering junior a chance to put in for a tag, the DWR offer?s a number of ?Family Tags? so we can re-establish the tradition of family hunting. A number of tags are set aside for Family hunts, Mom, Dad, Junior, Grandpa etc.

Just a thought!

RUS
 
Thanks for the input Rus! But your response shows exactly
what the newspaper wants the unknowing public to think! This is a very important issue! AGE REQUIREMENTS Utah code 23-20-20
"While hunting big game with any weapon, a hunter under the age of 16 must be accompanied by his or her parent, a legal gaurdian or
a responsible person 21 years of age or older who their parent or
gaurdian has approved to take them hunting.
 
Bud, Just trying to find a way to get the family experience back. I'm sure you remember when. Didn't mean kids would be going out on their own, just meant it would be better if Dad & kids could draw together.

RUS
 
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