Spike elk debate

travishunter3006

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I know this topic has been beaten more than a red headed step child. (No offense to you carrot tops out there)

In the UT big game guide book is states that one antler must be a spike and that is defined as not being able to branch above the ear.

Above the ear by some means above the base ofthe ear where it attatches to the head and to some like my self it means above the tip of the ear when extended up along the antler.


Maybe this article will clarify this subject a little more.



http://wildlife.utah.gov/law/pdf2/2011_monroe_party_hunting.pdf









It was a big bodied 2 point. (this is my signature)
 
Why does this have to be so complicated? A spike should be a spike ?NO ANTLER BRANCHES PERIOD?. The broken bulls should never be shot on a spike hunt. Why cant we get this branch below the ear, above the ear BS removed from the rules?
 
I agree that they need to change the verbage, but I do applaud the UDWR for adhering to the reg as it is written. I think that they need to turn the "Spike" hunt into a two point or less on both sides rule, as that sounds more like what they are trying to achieve anyway. I would also be in favor of an every other year or third year rule instead of every year for a spike hunt.
 
Read the article and I don't see how a busted main beam with first and second points should be a legal spike. Obviously the bull was not a spike before breaking his beam. I would agree the rules would better serve the heard if change to be less vague, But I also don't know if I could resist shooting a big six by one if I had the chance.
 
Looks to me like it's just something else the DWR has screwed up. A true spike hunt should be for immature bulls that have one spike or a single spike coming out of each pedicel, not for a friggin nice bull that got his rack broken during the rut!
 
I understand the thought that a spike should only be the immature bulls.

But what about a mature bull with some crazy club horn coming off the side of his face? I think they whould be shot on any spike hunt, if for no other reason then to take them out of the gene pool.
 
I am all for shooting freak bulls but not broken bulls. If they draw a line more definitively in the sand I'd have to be on the side of a spike being just that, a spike. No branching at all.



It was a big bodied 2 point. (this is my signature)
 
I don't take issue with spike hunts and the DWR regs are confusing to some. Fact is the DWR means "starts branching" below the tip of the ear in the alert position. I don't see that broken bull being legal even by the DWR liberal spike regs.
 
I can not figure out how to show a link? You can do a search under Elk for ?legal Utah spikes?, it was October 7. Post number 23 from Amy at the DWR gave the answer. Broken Bulls are legal on the Spike hunt, as long as they do not branch above the tip of the ear. I think this means you can stretch the ear up the beam to the very tip.



"Our law enforcement officers noticed this discussion, and we followed up with the law enforcement chief. He clarified that as long as the antler doesn't branch above the tip of the ear, then it's a legal spike bull. Hope this helps if you're heading out on Saturday. Good luck!"
Amy Canning
Communications Specialist
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
 
So that means if a 400" bull got in a fight and broke an entire side of his rack off below the ear tip he's a legal target on the spike hunt. Doesn't seem quite right to me!!!
 
It might not seem "right" to some of us folks Mr Topgun but really how many bulls are we talking about? 1? 2? 3 State wide in a year?

It seems to me that if a guy got one, then good for him.

PS: I'd shoot one since big bulls are NOT in short supply in the spike only units.

Zeke
 
Did the guy who turned the azzhats in get a Monroe tag for reporting their azzes???


Traditional >>>------->
 
I seen 3 on the Pahvant last fall, broken after the second point. And another with the entire horn broke off one side. There is some pics on the other thread, oct.7 "legal Utah spikes?" What does it matter if there is only one in the state, why would we kill it on a spike hunt?
 
tinenut---That was exactly my point when I made the post. It just seems goofy to have a spike hunt in a unit and then be allowed to kill a bull that may be 5-7 years old and in his prime under that type of hunt just because he was in a real battle during the rut!
 
Just because a bull has a goofy horn on one side doesn't mean its poor genetics. More than likely the horn was injured in the velvet or the bull was injured while growing the horn.

Anyone know what percentage of bulls are ever a spike? Are all bulls a spike their first year or do the better bulls go from a calf to a 2 point?

BTW, genetics are genetics, they don't change as an animal matures. What does change is the mature bull/buck generally does a better job breeding than immature bulls/bucks.

Thanks
 
Just curious, but would this bull be considered a spike in Utah? By what I read, he would... since his 3rd antler is a spike?

3895elk_head_on.jpg

2590horn.jpg
 
There will be some that argue with me, but yes he would be a legal spike. I also think the regulations are fine the way they are.
 
That wouldn't be a spike. The 2 main beams split above the ear. That would be a nice unicorn elk. they should make regs for those now. haha


It was a big bodied 2 point. (this is my signature)
 
thye way the c/o measure my girlfriends brothers was by pulling the tip of the ear to its highest point and there cannot be a point above that. so you have 6-8 inches above the burr that can legally have a point
 
That bull has at least one antler without any points on it above the ear. The regulations do not address a bull with 3 antlers. Like it or not that bull would be legal. Even if they tried to ticket you the state would not win that one in court.
 
So the way it reads now is if you shoot a bull with a point higher then his ears YOU should be carrying a 8lb hammer so you can trim him up before you put the tag on.
Just shoot any bull you see and then break off the other side.
The law needs to be changed period, And it not 1-2-3 bulls that this happens too.

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Big - I wouldn't want to be the first one to argue that one in court though. Looks pretty obvious that your argument would be semantic at best. Play it safe - pass on that bull.


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I've seen bulls broken above the G2 as well. One was a huge 7x, too bad I couldn't find him on the hunt. I believe we have way too many bulls on our units right now in Utah. Harvesting a few extra big bulls that happen to break is not a big deal. If it gets your dander up thinking about a few bulls a year being "wasted" on a spike hunter, you'd best try not to think about the hundreds that die every year from old age. Or the hundreds that die from getting beat up too badly when there are 5 bulls fighting over a harem of 10 cows.

I guess this is a tough one for me because I've heard with my own ears Utah's big game coordinator say we could double the LE elk tags on all of our units and not see a significant reduction in quality. But since that would mean the auction tags wouldn't be worth as much, our wildlife board cuts tags instead. I say get rid of the spike hunts and make these areas limited quota for branch antlered bulls only. Then we wouldn't have to debate what the definition of a spike is anymore :)
 
Roy-the only way I would shoot this bull is if I knew for sure that spike was a third antler, which would be very hard to tell anyway. With that said I would have no issues with punching a spike tag on him. I would be more than happy to argue this one in front of a judge.

Lots of legal spike bulls probably get passed because people don't understand the law.
 
gator if they suspect it of you breaking it off and find out its true. its a felony. if u can prove it was broke before you killed it ie living pic. you will be fine.
 
Ox you know tons of bulls are shoot every year with broken points and main beams, IT would be hard to prove it didn't happen in a bull on bull fight and you just shot it, the same goes for a GW proving it was broke off by you to make it legal.
Not seeing the bull before the shot and only seeing the bull in the bed of a truck or the antlers hanging on the porch rail. I'M SAYING THIS A REASON THAT THIS LAW SHOULD BE CHANGED.
This a huge grey area.
Now say you just shot a bull that was broken already and the GW shows up and thinks you broke it off to make it legal, Now a innocent hunter has a ticket he will be fighting in court, and he didn't do anything wrong but buy a spike tag and shoot a bull that everyone says is legal.Hell if the GW don't like the color of your skin I see a ticket in your future. If you can't see the clouds on the hozizon that this Area needs something different in place, You might not want to buy a spike tag anytime soon.



"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
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