Drought affect horn growth?

[sheephunter]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-12 AT 06:53PM (MST)[p]Pretty dry here in Colorado. I'm thinking the bulls tops won't be as good as they have been in past years unless we get some rain soon? What's everybody else think? I'm thinking they might not finish out.

 

[pheasantman]

I hunted on a ranch in South Dakota for mule deer for 18 years. The dry years are sometimes better. The grass is short but what is there has more protein content. Just my opinion. Hope that's not the case. I drew the 201 tag and will be in Colorado in October.

 

[sheephunter]

I hope you are right too. Good luck on Cold Spring Mtn. Best elk hunt in the state.

 

[DougW]

I have no idea if there is any science to this, but I've heard a couple of times that the antler density is lower in dry years, making up for (or even more than offsetting) lack of point length. I guess if true the chance of breakage would be higher.

I could envision this for elk but nada for deer.

Anyone??

 

[Verticalslope]

The winter was very mild so animals should have had better fat reserves throughout the winter. That should help compensate some for the dry summer. Next year may be worse off it this weather cyle persists.

 

[DBLung]

I studied this a few years back. Antler growth depends on a good winter more than a good summer. From the time deer and elk stop rutting to the time they shed their antlers they store up calcium trapped a hormone in the blood. When they shed their antlers they release the calcium that grows antlers. Elk especially need this. If you calculate the average growth time for a 350" bull, it needs to grow 310" of horn in just 130 days or so. They can't eat that much grass in so little time. Some of you have posted seeing larger bucks and bulls on dry years. And some of the biggest bucks and bull ever taken have been in more dry areas (AZ,NM) This backs up my point. Habitat and genes make up a lot of it as well. If you want I could really get carried away and tell you all about it what I studied, but that might take a few terabytes.

 

[bonepicker]

Good answer, I'm satisfied. Makes alot of sense, thanks!

 

[DougW]

DBL- by "good winter" I assume you mean a warm winter without much snowpack? Ie. less stress and calorie/calcium burn by the animals?

thx

 

[DBLung]

Not necessarily Doug. There are still big bucks and bulls produced in places like Alberta Canada, Montana etc. The digestive system of a deer of elk needs a certain amount of oils from the brush they eat during the winter. In desert ares there isn't much for grass. In colder areas the snow needs to cover the grass. If deer and elk continue to eat dried up grass during the winter it will mess up their digestive system. That can make a mess out of things. Last year we had tons of snow, and it was cold. The mortality rate for the deer on our farm was minimal. This year we didn't have any snow. We have found lots of dead deer and a few dead elk. They ate grass all winter. They can recover from a snowy winter a lot better than people might think. If we have a nasty winter the DNR usually will distribute alfalfa hay for something to eat. It still contains a certain amount of oils they need.

 

[30Hart]

Does make the horns brittle though which can cause a lot of broken points...either before harvest or when you drop him.

 

[sheephunter]

Ten years ago I had a rifle tag in Northern AZ during the drought of 2002. Most of the bulls had good fronts, thirds, decent royals, and then petered out from there on up. I didn't kill one.

 

[billythekid]

bottom line is drought does affect horn growth. the largest of bulls can be 30-50" smaller on a b and c scale during drought years as they should normally be. the larger the bull, the more you will notice it. it is true that usually you get some compensation on the front end that makes up for a weak back end but overall they will be smaller. the drought az. is currently experiencing is by no means equivalent to 2002 or 2006 but if they don't get some good summer rains the elk rut will be non-existent.

 

[nickman]

Funny chit!

A guy comes on here and provides some common sense, scientific info and then the nimrods show up and try to equate antler growth to carrots.

Antler growth is based on overall health, gene structure and individual history.......not how well the animal gets "watered".

If the water/feed issue were the main factor, Northwest forest animals would hold all the records.

New Mexico, Nevada, Southern Utah, and Arizona antlered animals seem to disregard the "spring rain" theory every year.

"I could eat a bowl of Alphabet Soup and
sh!t a better argument than that!"

 

[sheephunter]

You're right dipstick I didn't see what I saw. You obviously know way more about elk horn growth than anybody else.

 

[TOPGUN]

"If the water/feed issue were the main factor, Northwest forest animals would hold all the records"

Sounds like another "nimrod" statement when the elk of the northwest are recognized as a completely different subspecies from the desert animals being discussed!

 

[nickman]

Well, you have certainly proved my use of the term "carrot theory"........but I may be slighting the intelligence of the carrot.

"I could eat a bowl of Alphabet Soup and
sh!t a better argument than that!"

 

[sheephunter]

What a joke. I start a thread to discuss the possible affect the drought might have on elk horn growth since we have had only 10 to 20% of normal precipitation this year in NW Colorado and I get some mouthy punk know it all giving me the gears. I've been hunting elk for 30 years dipstick and have killed around 45 bulls in Colorado, Arizona, Wyoming, and New Mexico so I'd like to think I know a little bit about this. You need to go home and eat your alphabet soup like a good little boy.

 

[nmelktrout]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-16-12 AT 10:26PM (MST)[p]Easy, gentlemen. Genetics and minerals are major contributors to antler growth, there is no doubting that. Arizona and New Mexico clearly produce giants in conditions that would kill elk in other states. We are, however, very dependent upon moisture for maximizing antler growth. Hunting seasons following wet rains are the best in my beloved Gila region. We have been stuck in one hell of a drought the past couple of years and I can tell you from first-hand experience that antler growth in the Gila has been drastically effected. I glassed nearly 300 bulls in the area of the Gila that I hunt in 2011 and of those, only 4 were over 300". Speaking with many guides, outfitters and lifelong Gila hunters, the consensus was the same. The drought of 2011 resulted in the worst year of elk hunting most old-timers had ever seen in the Gila. No one could believe the amount of stunted antlers or tough hunting conditions. Many of the bulls I glassed had the great front-ends that are typical of Gila bulls, but their racks literally died off after the thirds. From a lifetime of elk hunting and living in elk country, I have noticed that drought conditions result in weaker tops and backs.

Interestingly, some of my biologist buddies have shown me evidence of increased antler or horn growth during drought conditions where animals turn to browsing and foraging on feed that contributes more to antler/horn development. I've witnessed this more with antelope than deer or elk....although I personally believe that as a general rule, droughts hammer antler growth.

Praying for rain in the Gila,

Cody

www.streamflies.com

 

[billythekid]

there is no question that several factors besides water affect antler development. however, genetics don't change, age is what it is, but the nutrition does and will change from year to year. water is the key factor here. IMO, there is some truth to bulls being bigger on average precip years than on above average years. there are a lot of things to consider when discussing precipitation and antler development such as timing of precip (fall, winter, spring summer), type of precip (snow vs. rain vs. freezing rain), terrain type (mostly browse, lots of grasses, etc.), and others. all of these factors are controlled by water and this year there are certainly some interesting dynamics to consider in the SW for antler development. good luck this year.

 

[Buckriser]

Here's to hoping...... Wouldn't you know this is the year I drew out. Does anyone know how the winter went on the beaver unit this year? I guess I'll find some water and sit on it.

 

[mistertwister]

I hunted the Gila in 2011 it was a terrible hunt and we were picking up sheds/broken racks that were a fraction of the weight from similar size from years past. I saw over 200 bulls...not 1 over 300 points. Bad year to draw a good tag

 

[dreaminbouthuntin]

Absolutely drought has an effect on antler growth. It has several pinned points as to why.
1) during dought feed is more scarce and lacks proper nutrition for body and antler condition.
2) as the animals head into winter after a drought, they go in leaner and have less quality feed to sustain them during the winter. It equates to poor body condition heading into spring the following year.
3) if the winter is harsh after the drought, even with a wet spring, the animals are behind and will not make up enough ground in body condition and health before their antlers are in the growth stage.
4) the following year after a drought will be the toughest on the animals. With a good spring or summer, the animals will winter much better. Body conition and overall health will help follow into the subsequent year.

Same logic goes into hoof growth on horses. With horses, if they are thin, lack proper minerals, ect.. their hooves will show it with cracking and lack of proper growth.

Minerals play a major role in antler growth and density.

 

[bticked]

I don't really have any contribution to the whole antler growth during the drought debate but I hunted the gila for the first time last year and we were chasing 3 bulls that were over 300". My buddy missed a shot the 3rd day at one that would go about 330. If this is what it's like on a bad year I can't wait to draw on a good one!

Ryan

 

[TOPGUN]

Ryan---You have to realize that the Gila is known for BIG bulls. Bulls in the category like you're talking about are almost considered raghorns by guys that are really into hunting for big bulls int he 350" class and up. I agree with you though, as I get pumped seeing any bull over about 280" coming in to a cow call during the rut.

 

[azbullhunter]

Sheephunter you are right. I had a tag in 2002 in the middle of Rodeo fire. Horn growth was the worst in the 20 years I have been going there for three weeks each Sept. The best bull I saw in 30 days was 342 and I was lucky to get him. This year is nowhere as dry as 2002. Hope the rains come this weekend