Baby Boomers and the PP system

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old_man_of_the_hills

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I have a theory that may offer some "light at the end of the tunnel" in regards to the PP systems that everybody complains about. Most of our hunting population is skewed towards the older end of things, baby boomers compromise alot of our hunting crowd, and many of them can afford to travel and hunt in different states. With the PP/BP systems so backed up, is there a chance that in the next 20 years, baby boomers will become to old to hunt and stop applying? I would assume that a large portion of NR applicants are older and while it is bittersweet to loose hunters, it could make tags a little easier to get. You hear people say, "My 15 year old son will never get to hunt XX unit because the points are so backed up" but I really don't believe that. Sure if all of the other 15 year olds were the ones that held the points, but what that 15 year old lacks in points he makes up for in years. What do you think?

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This is my post

I've just pissed in my pants.......and nobody can do anything about it.
 
The problem isn't the years it's that they can never catch up, the point system in Colorado keeps growing, The zone I hunt there it took 4 ponits the first time to draw, then it took 9 this last time, so in a few years it will take 12. If I were born today, then in 12 years was able to hunt it would take 20 to 25 points to draw, every two years it grows by a point. I would be 55 to 60 years old by the time I got that tag for the first time. I really don't think you would ever draw.

I think points should just give you another change in the draw.
Lets say a gun raffle you buy 100 tickets I but one I still can win, my ticket gets pulled before your 100 I win. Your chance at winning is better more tickets, But thats fare you buy more tickets get a better shot, I buy one not so good of a shot. bottom line is we both can win the gun.

I don't know everthing has it's pro's and con's.

thanks Tim
 
But the point of my theory is that it won't keep growing for much longer. I think that it will flatten out because for the last decade baby boomers have had the money time to start applying in other states. As they quit hunting, the applicant pool will decline and so will point requirements. AKA SUPPLY AND DEMAND

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This is my post

I've just pissed in my pants.......and nobody can do anything about it.
 
Boomers right now have an estimated worth of 314 **TRILLION** dollars... trillion. If I was a boomer an I drew something like Mt Goat at age 87 and was physically unable to hike there myself, I'd hire someone to drag my ass up there. It would look like Egyptian Royalty riding on those bed things carried by slaves. I mean why wouldnt you? If you had the money and a tag, why not spend it before ya croak LOL!

But in truth, my dads about in that situation right now. Max tier UT elk points and nearly 70. Hes in pretty good shape, able to hike still but I'm not sure if he'll draw before he's unable or ceases careing to hunt.

Also about the youth, as others have pointed out its taking more and more points every year to draw out. We dont even know where the top tier of elk will end yet for most units, its still going! Take a unit like Bookcliffs deer, its taking 1.x years longer, every year to draw. In '04 it took 6pts, 05 it took 7... 06 took 8. The numbers arent leveling off, they are increasing because every tier you clear off, there are more in the next tier to get through the system... and more in the tier after that... more in the tier after that.

I feel my 6 year olds only chance to hunt a big bull wont be through the draw, but him busting his ass to earn the 15-30k a cwmu tag will cost by the time hes old enough to hunt.


-DallanC
 
Tim, I was razzing you a bit on the other post about Idaho not having a point system. The reasons you list above are why many are against them. I could live with your example of 1 ticket vs 100 tickets, but is my understanding that most drawing are not conducted that way.
On another note, I do not think that anybody has any more of a "right" to draw a tag than anybody else. I don't care if you have put in for 20 years or not. In my mind the kid coming right out of hunters education has just as much "right" to that premo elk, deer, sheep, moose, what ever tag as me or anybody else...
I have a few freinds that always seem to draw in Idaho, or at least more than I do, and yes I get jelous (mad) and give them hell for it. However, at least I had the same chance as they did.

My soulution. Double or even tripple the LE tags and make all the hunts archery or traditional muzz hunts with outfitters only allowed to offer "drop camps". After all it is supposed to be about the experience and "opportunity" to hunt where there is a trophy.
 
Sorry "OLD Man of the hills", I got off your topic in my last post.

NO, I do not think it is ever going to get easier to draw a tag. Even after the boomers die off.
IT is supply and demand, and the demand it just getting more and more. The supply of trophy animals is really pretty small with little room to increase. (politically)
 
I tend to agree with old man. For example, my father had been putting in for 9 years in Nevada waiting for a specific tag in a specific deer area. Finally last year he drew it.
He's now 67 years old. when it came time to put in this year,
he decided he was done. I'm sure theres going to be many hunters like my dad who decide they've had enough.
 
NVhntr, you bring a good point, however how many kids do you have, that will statistically "replace" your dad in the draw? Or how many kids do you know that will result in a net increase in numbers for the same tag? I know I have made it even harder to draw. My wife never hunted before me, and now I have two kids that will likely also be "replacing" sombody in the draw..
 
that would be an interesting thing to know. I wonder if the NDOW has stats on age of hunters. you could compare year to year and see how many new hunters are coming in and how many older hunters are dropping out. It would probably be true that more kids are coming in than older hunters dropping off.
however, you hear wildlife people talking about how hunting is becoming less of a pasttime.
 
I would have to think that hunter recruitment is in the decline, and so if that is true, then it should be getting better for PPs, but on the other hand, I would have to say that more and more people are applying for multiple states, and so that may offset the declining recruitment.

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This is my post

I've just pissed in my pants.......and nobody can do anything about it.
 
There may be less hunters nationwide that buy hunting licenses each year but the ones that stick with it are more serious than ever.

How many of you applied in as many states 5 years ago as you do now? For example, I've applied for deer in Wyoming off and on since 92 but i just started applying for elk 3 years ago and if I neveer had, I'd have started when they went to a PP system. I now apply for over 30 tags each year and some years I've applied for another 18 for my son. In 04 we were 0 for 40something and I bought a landowner tag.

I do like Nevada cause you are dangerous the first year. I've hunted Nevada 8 times the last 22 years as a NR just applying for deer and antelope until they went to online applications 4 years ago. In comparision, I've applied for Idaho, Unit 40, the late deer hunt every year since 92 and even though the odds are about 1/12, I haven't drawn in 15 years. Thats 15 hunting licenses I've donated minus the one controlled elk tag I drew.

That brings up another point, online applications. You can put in for almost every state on a CC now and if you apply all across the West, you're out less than $600.00 if you don't draw anything. For $700.00 including interest, you can get points for Colorado, Wyoming, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Utah and still apply for the 2 non-PP states, Idaho and New Mexico. You'll end up with a pocket full of hunting licenses every year. Thats 6 points for elk or deer depending on your preference in Utah and 5 for the others. 3 sheep points in Nevada alone and it goes on and on.
 
THERE IS A PLUS AND A MINUS, A PRO AND A CON FOR EACH STATE. I HAVE PUT IN FOR ANTELOPE IN WYOMING FOR 18 YEARS AND HAVE NEVER DRAWN A GOAT. NOW HOWEVER I AM IN THE MAX POOL FOR ELK IN UTAH AND I THINK IT WAS WORTH THE EFFORT (AT LEAST I HOPE SO). I LOVE THE FACT IN COLORADO YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO HUNT A DECENT UNIT ON A SECOND CHOICE. I GOT LUCKY IN NEW MEXICO AND DREW AN ELK ON MY FIRST TRY. I DREW A MTN. GOAT A BIT EARLY IN UTAH. THE FACT IS STAY IN THE GAME PAY THE MONEY AND IT WILL PAY OFF. I HATE THE STACK OF UNUSED LICENSES JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE I'M THINKING ABOUT WALLPAPERING MY HOUSE WITH THEM. THE RULES ARE SET, SOMETIMES WAITING FOR THE TAG IS FUNNER THAN THE HUNT IT'S SELF. (NOT REALLY).
 
I have been applying for my sons in as many states as possible. As soon as they are old enough to apply in each state, I get them started. That includes not only elk and deer but also sheep and goats. They may not draw for 20 or 30 years but by the time they are in their mid 40's and 50's they should have a chance to draw some good tags. Most people probably start seriously applying when they are out of school and start working (mid 20's). By starting them off as early as possible, they should be about 10 points ahead of other people their same age.

I think in the next 10 years, states will start to overhaul their preference point systems. I'm not sure what the new systems might be, but I think most states are getting to the point where it is too discouraging for new hunters to start applying. We may see a lot more once in a lifetime hunts. I wish I had a crystal ball.
 
There is talk in Nevada about changing it's system. They have formed a committee to look into it.
I have seen some of the proposals. It looks alot like what Utah does.
Half the tags to max point holders is one example.
once in a lifetime on sheep is another.
 
I think you right Nvdrhuntr. All states will go to some kind of a partial max point holder system. They are going to have to give some kind of chance to first timers or they will lose too much revenue as people will stop appying in large numbers. I like Nv. system as first timers have a chance but as your points go up your chances multiply exponentially.
 

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