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Prism
Guest
Are you happy with the way Utah is managing its mule deer?
alpinebowman
Active Member
- Messages
- 494
I don't think the DWR needs to start micro managing or making units smaller. I think the DWR just needs to start shifting more tags to primative weapons like arhery and muzzy loaders. Just get rid of the huge number of people in the rapid fire orange army and the deer will instantly be better off. I don't care who you are taking tags out of the rifle pool to double the archery and muzzy tags will not impact the heards and the crowds will still be tolerable. with those tags taken out of the rifle season alot more deer will make it. And I don't want to hear that all of those arhers will wound more deer than they kill. even though I know all of the rifle hunters out there are ethial one shot one kill people. We all hear plenty of rifle stories that empty the gun trying to hit some thing. As much as I would hate the extra competition during the archery season more deer would certainly make it though the year.
I also think the DWR needs to end the front hunt for bucks two weeks earlier before they kill all of the good genetics out of it. Leave the doe hunt the same if you want for the meat hunters but lets let the bucks have a little break.
I also think the entire state should have a shed hunt ban like northern utah has. This is a universal help for the elk and deer. but I don't think the elk need anymore help except for a bunch more LE tags instead of this gay management tag they have.
OKAY I'M DONE WITH MY .02 CENTS
alpinebowman
>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->
I also think the DWR needs to end the front hunt for bucks two weeks earlier before they kill all of the good genetics out of it. Leave the doe hunt the same if you want for the meat hunters but lets let the bucks have a little break.
I also think the entire state should have a shed hunt ban like northern utah has. This is a universal help for the elk and deer. but I don't think the elk need anymore help except for a bunch more LE tags instead of this gay management tag they have.
OKAY I'M DONE WITH MY .02 CENTS
alpinebowman
>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->
cabinfever
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,382
Utah is managing mule deer! All kidding aside, you know how I feel about their deer management or lack of.
Mike
Mike
W
weavervillain
Guest
LAST EDITED ON May-31-07 AT 12:25PM (MST)[p]Sorry to hijack this thread, but is there any truth to the rumor I heard about non-res having to buy a small game license to apply (even for just a pt) in UT next year?
J
JREDBUCK
Guest
It really seems to me we can't have both good mule deer and a great elk herd. You have Colorado which has a great number of elk and great deer management. Nevada had a great elk herd and screwed it up. Wyoming both can be found, but wall hangers are few and far between. Idaho basically the same. Arizona awesome elk and coues - then of coarse you have the strip, But these three are spread apart enough they don't compete. New Mexico is on the same page there are mule deer sections and elk sections.
Then there lies Utah - unbelievable elk (everyone agrees - especially Mr Boone and Mr. Crockett). There are good deer genes in Utah but you have to own a limited entry lottery ticket to be able to play. And if you are like me and a couple thousand of my closest friends sitting with a load of elk points. You have to look else where to hunt good muleys. I think if Utah either went to the "micro units" of say Wyo. and Co. or enforced a three point or better for everyone except youth hunters, we could make some head-way. If people are meat hunting there are plenty of doe/cow tags to go around.
The only way I can get around it currently is the dedicated hunter program (which I love). And would love to see it go back to the way it was originally set up, to be able to hunt all three seasons if you drew a good tag.
Right now I being an elk tag hopefull, hope that there are some great bulls left before I die or draw which ever comes first. However, I don't see the deer going anywhere without significant change.
Just a second while I jump off my soapbox.
Thanks-John
Then there lies Utah - unbelievable elk (everyone agrees - especially Mr Boone and Mr. Crockett). There are good deer genes in Utah but you have to own a limited entry lottery ticket to be able to play. And if you are like me and a couple thousand of my closest friends sitting with a load of elk points. You have to look else where to hunt good muleys. I think if Utah either went to the "micro units" of say Wyo. and Co. or enforced a three point or better for everyone except youth hunters, we could make some head-way. If people are meat hunting there are plenty of doe/cow tags to go around.
The only way I can get around it currently is the dedicated hunter program (which I love). And would love to see it go back to the way it was originally set up, to be able to hunt all three seasons if you drew a good tag.
Right now I being an elk tag hopefull, hope that there are some great bulls left before I die or draw which ever comes first. However, I don't see the deer going anywhere without significant change.
Just a second while I jump off my soapbox.
Thanks-John
alpinebowman
Active Member
- Messages
- 494
Residents and nonresidents alike will have to buy the new "hunting license next year to apply in the draw and the application fee goes from $5 to $10 for each app. one of the main reasons for this is the state gets matching funds from the federal government for license fees and not for application fees. This is actually better for residents because for those that hunt elk deer and fish through out the year will save about 25 dollars because with the new license fee the tag prices on elk and deer went down.
alpinebowman
>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->
alpinebowman
>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->
P
proutdoors
Guest
Elk are much easier to 'manage'. The hurdles to improve quality/quanity for deer are HUGE. Habitat, predators, weather(both drought and snow), and people affect mule deer more drasitically than elk/whitetails. Mule deer numbers peaked in the 50's and have declined since. Many factors can be 'blamed' for this. When the west settled, there were according to many 'experts' fewer deer than now. To expect the DWR to wave a magic wand and boost mule deer numbers overnight is not realistic. Lose of habitat, fire suppresion, and weather, are bigger 'limiters' than anything the DWR can/is doing.
Try this link: http://www.createstrat.com/muledeerinthewest/westthatwas.html
PRO
Try this link: http://www.createstrat.com/muledeerinthewest/westthatwas.html
PRO
M
mort75
Guest
>>I also think the entire state should have
>a shed hunt ban like
>northern utah has. This is
>a universal help for the
>elk and deer. but I
>don't think the elk need
>anymore help except for a
>bunch more LE tags instead
>of this gay management tag
>they have.
>
>OKAY I'M DONE WITH MY .02
>CENTS
>
>
>alpinebowman
>
>>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->
What the hell does this have to do with the managment of elk and deer. How does picking up sheds effect herd growth.
>a shed hunt ban like
>northern utah has. This is
>a universal help for the
>elk and deer. but I
>don't think the elk need
>anymore help except for a
>bunch more LE tags instead
>of this gay management tag
>they have.
>
>OKAY I'M DONE WITH MY .02
>CENTS
>
>
>alpinebowman
>
>>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->
What the hell does this have to do with the managment of elk and deer. How does picking up sheds effect herd growth.
oakbrush
Active Member
- Messages
- 423
LAST EDITED ON May-31-07 AT 05:29PM (MST)[p]The DWR already recognizes Utah deer herds in sub-units. But at this point, they are only used as areas to do buck-to-doe ratio counts. What good is it to have herd units and not set the amount of hunters that can be allowed to hunt each unit? You can have units that are managed for opportunity, and units that are managed more for the trophy hunter. The states of Colorado and Nevada are in much better shape overall than Utah. Utah has just as good habitat as they do. So what is the problem?
The problem is that the DWR has no control over hunter harvest in these sub units because they have no idea how hard each one is going to get pounded vs the other ones. You have to know how many hunters are going in each area to have a general idea of what you will have left after the shooting stops.
The only argument that people seem to have against smaller units is "I don't want to be limited to just one area, I have several different areas that I hunt". Each one of these sub-units is hundreds of square miles. This is a very selfish attitude and once people realize that you might have to give up a little ground to get a better deer herd, things might turn around.
Thanks
oakbrush
The problem is that the DWR has no control over hunter harvest in these sub units because they have no idea how hard each one is going to get pounded vs the other ones. You have to know how many hunters are going in each area to have a general idea of what you will have left after the shooting stops.
The only argument that people seem to have against smaller units is "I don't want to be limited to just one area, I have several different areas that I hunt". Each one of these sub-units is hundreds of square miles. This is a very selfish attitude and once people realize that you might have to give up a little ground to get a better deer herd, things might turn around.
Thanks
oakbrush
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proutdoors
Guest
Hunters have very little effects on herd populations. Killing bucks is NOT what is keeping deer numbers down. Hunters affect quality, but unless they are killing lots of does, they are not 'limiting' quanity of deer. Habitat is by far the number 1 limiting factor for deer.
As for the question about shed hunters, shed hunting on critical winter range when deer are trying to stay alive DOES affect herd numbers. That is the SOLE reason the DWR put a 'season' in the northern region, where deer numbers are suffering more than in other regions.
PRO
As for the question about shed hunters, shed hunting on critical winter range when deer are trying to stay alive DOES affect herd numbers. That is the SOLE reason the DWR put a 'season' in the northern region, where deer numbers are suffering more than in other regions.
PRO
fullcurl74
Active Member
- Messages
- 368
Utah has some of the best mule deer habitat anywhere. Utah probably has 10 times the amount of deer habitat that Nevada does. The difference is that Nevada manages most of their units for a buck to doe ratio of 25-35 bucks per 100 does. Most of Utah's ratios are in the teens at best or worse (with the exception of LE units).
Utah has always managed deer for maximum opportunity. They're happy if tens of thousands of people all kill deer, and none of them are over three years old. In the units where buck ratios were in the single digits, (Pine Valley) they shortened the season, rather than cut back tag numbers. This puts 10,000 hunters in the field in 5 days rather than spreading it over 9.
Utah could produce incredible bucks statewide if they would drastically cut tag numbers. The problem with that is Utahns that have hunted deer every year since they turned twelve aren't going to like not having a tag in their pocket every year. It's a question of sacrificing annual hunting opportunity for quality.
If Utahns want to kill big bucks, they'll have to accept only having a tag every two or three years. I apply for Utah LE hunts as a non-resident, so I'm not going to say which is better for Utah, quality or quantity. That's up to the residents to decide, and me to live with as a non-resident, but those are the facts as I see them.
Utah has always managed deer for maximum opportunity. They're happy if tens of thousands of people all kill deer, and none of them are over three years old. In the units where buck ratios were in the single digits, (Pine Valley) they shortened the season, rather than cut back tag numbers. This puts 10,000 hunters in the field in 5 days rather than spreading it over 9.
Utah could produce incredible bucks statewide if they would drastically cut tag numbers. The problem with that is Utahns that have hunted deer every year since they turned twelve aren't going to like not having a tag in their pocket every year. It's a question of sacrificing annual hunting opportunity for quality.
If Utahns want to kill big bucks, they'll have to accept only having a tag every two or three years. I apply for Utah LE hunts as a non-resident, so I'm not going to say which is better for Utah, quality or quantity. That's up to the residents to decide, and me to live with as a non-resident, but those are the facts as I see them.
woodruffhunter
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,675
No, I think they are doing a horrible job with mule deer.
However, I am not saying I could do a better job.
But, If it was me this is what I would do:
1- Cut tags by 1/2
2- Increase tag fees and buy and restore more habitat.
3- Hire retired Colorado Fish and Game officers as
consultants and take and implement the advice they
give.
4- Do NOT hire non-hunters as biologists. Pre-requisite being
they must have at least ten years experience as a hunter!
However, I am not saying I could do a better job.
But, If it was me this is what I would do:
1- Cut tags by 1/2
2- Increase tag fees and buy and restore more habitat.
3- Hire retired Colorado Fish and Game officers as
consultants and take and implement the advice they
give.
4- Do NOT hire non-hunters as biologists. Pre-requisite being
they must have at least ten years experience as a hunter!
B
bobcatbess
Guest
THEY'VE DONE A PISS POOR JOB FOR A FEW DECADES NOW!!!
WHO THE HELL CAN'T SEE THAT???
THE FEW QUALITY ANIMALS THAT SURVIVE HERE IN THE COVETED REGION GET POACHED!!!
SEVERAL OF THE LOWLIFES GOT THEIR ASSES NAILED THIS LAST FALL/WINTER!!!
I KEEP HEARING THESE LOCAL JACKASSES SAY:WELL IF THEY NEED THE MEAT I DON'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH IT & I WOULDN'T TURN THEM IN!!!
WTF???
WE LOST SEVERAL QUALITY ANIMALS THIS LAST FALL/WINTER!!!
BECAUSE OF GREED STRICKEN LOWLIFE JACKASSES!!!
I'M BEGINNING TO WONDER EVEN IF THE UDWR COULD BRING THE HERDS & BIG BUCKS BACK JUST HOW FRICKEN LONG THEY'D LAST???
THE ONLY AGGITATED bobcat!!!
WHO THE HELL CAN'T SEE THAT???
THE FEW QUALITY ANIMALS THAT SURVIVE HERE IN THE COVETED REGION GET POACHED!!!
SEVERAL OF THE LOWLIFES GOT THEIR ASSES NAILED THIS LAST FALL/WINTER!!!
I KEEP HEARING THESE LOCAL JACKASSES SAY:WELL IF THEY NEED THE MEAT I DON'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH IT & I WOULDN'T TURN THEM IN!!!
WTF???
WE LOST SEVERAL QUALITY ANIMALS THIS LAST FALL/WINTER!!!
BECAUSE OF GREED STRICKEN LOWLIFE JACKASSES!!!
I'M BEGINNING TO WONDER EVEN IF THE UDWR COULD BRING THE HERDS & BIG BUCKS BACK JUST HOW FRICKEN LONG THEY'D LAST???
THE ONLY AGGITATED bobcat!!!
B
bobcatbess
Guest
AND TO ADD TO woodruffhunters LIST!!!
5:WE SHOULD HAVE MORE UDWR EMPLOYEE'S IN THE FIELD DOING THEIR JOBS RATHER THAN WORRYING ABOUT THEIR JOBS!!!
THE ONLY bobcat COMPLETELY AMAZED AT WHAT I'VE HEARD COME OUT OF THEIR MOUTH'S JUST TO PROTECT THEIR JOBS,WTF???
5:WE SHOULD HAVE MORE UDWR EMPLOYEE'S IN THE FIELD DOING THEIR JOBS RATHER THAN WORRYING ABOUT THEIR JOBS!!!
THE ONLY bobcat COMPLETELY AMAZED AT WHAT I'VE HEARD COME OUT OF THEIR MOUTH'S JUST TO PROTECT THEIR JOBS,WTF???
P
proutdoors
Guest
T
thebuckstopshere
Guest
Funny, the question was is Utah doing a good job managing its mule deer - and most of the responses are aimed at how Utah should increase antler size or catch poachers.
I know this website is monstermuleys.com. So, everyone wants antler size. But, all you crying about antler size read the same posts I do about nobody being able to hunt in other states. I know its damn near impossible to draw a LE tag in Utah, but I have a nice buck hanging on my wall from a general unit, and I'm gonna try to find another one this fall. I like having that chance ever other year - gauranteed.
Utah is more concerned with elk. Elk do hurt mule deer populations. Poachers are scum and Utah should do more to catch them.
But, the DWR can't make it rain - - - and it sounds to me like all anyone really cares about it antler growth. So pray for rain (its too late for this year).
Good luck all!
I know this website is monstermuleys.com. So, everyone wants antler size. But, all you crying about antler size read the same posts I do about nobody being able to hunt in other states. I know its damn near impossible to draw a LE tag in Utah, but I have a nice buck hanging on my wall from a general unit, and I'm gonna try to find another one this fall. I like having that chance ever other year - gauranteed.
Utah is more concerned with elk. Elk do hurt mule deer populations. Poachers are scum and Utah should do more to catch them.
But, the DWR can't make it rain - - - and it sounds to me like all anyone really cares about it antler growth. So pray for rain (its too late for this year).
Good luck all!
oakbrush
Active Member
- Messages
- 423
LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-07 AT 04:31PM (MST)[p]
In all honesty, I think Paul was a little bored and threw this post out here to see what would stick. So I thought I would help out a little with some response. I also have a couple of good bucks from general season areas on my wall. From recent years in fact. I'm in the dedicated hunter program so I get to hunt every year.
But, I think if we get the attitude that everything is fine just as long as I get a tag every other year, then we will probably never see an improvment in our deer herds in the future.
oakbrush
In all honesty, I think Paul was a little bored and threw this post out here to see what would stick. So I thought I would help out a little with some response. I also have a couple of good bucks from general season areas on my wall. From recent years in fact. I'm in the dedicated hunter program so I get to hunt every year.
But, I think if we get the attitude that everything is fine just as long as I get a tag every other year, then we will probably never see an improvment in our deer herds in the future.
oakbrush
arrowone4me
Active Member
- Messages
- 526
Well stated Oakbrush. Nail on the head.
P
Prism
Guest
It's always good to let the DWR know that a lot of us thinK Utah's deer management SUCKS!!!
The main reason I threw this out here is I had a fairly long conversation with one the DWRs head big game biologist. As usual I got off on the wrong foot telling him that Utah's deer herds suck and asked him what he is doing to fix it.
I also told him to take a look at Colorado and what they've accomplished by MANAGING HUNTERS.
His response nailed Utah's piss poor deer management on the head. Sorry I don't remember his exact words but this is the gist of it.
Colorado can afford to manage their deer because of the huge amount of money brought in by nonresident elk hunters. Utah sells soooooo many deer tags because of the need of the money. If Utah wanted better deer hunting we could have it in no time by managing hunter success and micromanaging units, but money trumps management.........
So there you have it from somebody in charge of managing our deer herds. Deer tags=money............
Wake up Utah!
J
JREDBUCK
Guest
AMEN AND HALLELUJAH TO PAUL. I BETTER MAKE THE BEST OF MY 551 COLORADO TAG THIS YEAR. BECAUSE UTAH IS NEVER GOING TO CHANGE IT'S MANAGEMENT STRATEGY.
B
bobcatbess
Guest
JUDAS FRICKIN PRIEST!!!
THERE ARE AT LEAST 96,000 OPPORTUNISTS JUST HAPPY AS HELL!!!
SORRY wiley!!!
COULDN'T RESIST!!!
OH BOY,I'M EXCITED,I CAN HUNT EVERY FRICKEN YEAR,ME & 96,000 OTHER FRICKEN OPPORTUNISTS,WTF???
Y'ALL HAPPY NOW???
THE ONLY bobcat HOPEING EVERYBODY WAKES UP ONE OF THESE DAYS & STARTS WANTING SOMETHING MORE THAN NOMAD QUALITY!!!
THERE ARE AT LEAST 96,000 OPPORTUNISTS JUST HAPPY AS HELL!!!
SORRY wiley!!!
COULDN'T RESIST!!!
OH BOY,I'M EXCITED,I CAN HUNT EVERY FRICKEN YEAR,ME & 96,000 OTHER FRICKEN OPPORTUNISTS,WTF???
Y'ALL HAPPY NOW???
THE ONLY bobcat HOPEING EVERYBODY WAKES UP ONE OF THESE DAYS & STARTS WANTING SOMETHING MORE THAN NOMAD QUALITY!!!
Daxter
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,425
LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-07 AT 08:26PM (MST)[p]Hey Paul,
I totally understand and share your many of your frustrations, but I have been known to wear brown pants (if you get my drift) so I have seen it from a different perspective too. The DWR has a budget, they have mandates from the legislature to manage wildlife, and managing wildlife is expensive. When they went from selling 250,000 deer tags a year to selling 97,000 in the early 90's they had to make a lot of cuts and they laid a lot of people off. Most folks in the DWR don't want to see it happen again. Reducing tags means reducing revenue and making cuts.
The DWR is in a tricky situation. It is a government agency, but 90% of it's operating budget comes from the sale of licenses and tags. So in some regards it is more like a business than a government agency. You might say they have the worst of both worlds, they have to operate on their own income but can't sell their own product for market value. They have to deal with politics and a government bureaucracy but don't get much money from the legislature. The way the agency is set up it has a built in potential conflict of interest. If reducing tags is in the best interest of wildlife it also means that they will have to reduce how much effort they can put into doing what is in the best interest of wildlife.
It is really hard to have your cake and eat it too when it comes to mule deer. The best way to grow more bucks and older/bigger bucks to harvest fewer of them. That means smaller units, fewer tags, more primitive weapons, less family hunting opportunity. Is that what the general public really wants? Demand for tags is increasing. Northern region (yes that is right, I said Northern Region) tags sell out sooner and sooner every year. Lots of people complain about the quality, but they also complain when reducing tag numbers is brought up. I know what my personal opinions and preferences are, but I don't know if they are the same as the rest of the residents of this state.
I know that Idaho just completed their statewide mule deer survey that they are going to use to write their new 10 year deer management plan. The results of the survey said that the majority of residents want to hunt every year more than they want trophy quality bucks. Of course they want both (who doesn't?), but the opportunity to hunt every year was the most important. These are tough decisions...
Just know that there are others that share your pain.
Dax
I totally understand and share your many of your frustrations, but I have been known to wear brown pants (if you get my drift) so I have seen it from a different perspective too. The DWR has a budget, they have mandates from the legislature to manage wildlife, and managing wildlife is expensive. When they went from selling 250,000 deer tags a year to selling 97,000 in the early 90's they had to make a lot of cuts and they laid a lot of people off. Most folks in the DWR don't want to see it happen again. Reducing tags means reducing revenue and making cuts.
The DWR is in a tricky situation. It is a government agency, but 90% of it's operating budget comes from the sale of licenses and tags. So in some regards it is more like a business than a government agency. You might say they have the worst of both worlds, they have to operate on their own income but can't sell their own product for market value. They have to deal with politics and a government bureaucracy but don't get much money from the legislature. The way the agency is set up it has a built in potential conflict of interest. If reducing tags is in the best interest of wildlife it also means that they will have to reduce how much effort they can put into doing what is in the best interest of wildlife.
It is really hard to have your cake and eat it too when it comes to mule deer. The best way to grow more bucks and older/bigger bucks to harvest fewer of them. That means smaller units, fewer tags, more primitive weapons, less family hunting opportunity. Is that what the general public really wants? Demand for tags is increasing. Northern region (yes that is right, I said Northern Region) tags sell out sooner and sooner every year. Lots of people complain about the quality, but they also complain when reducing tag numbers is brought up. I know what my personal opinions and preferences are, but I don't know if they are the same as the rest of the residents of this state.
I know that Idaho just completed their statewide mule deer survey that they are going to use to write their new 10 year deer management plan. The results of the survey said that the majority of residents want to hunt every year more than they want trophy quality bucks. Of course they want both (who doesn't?), but the opportunity to hunt every year was the most important. These are tough decisions...
Just know that there are others that share your pain.
Dax
wileywapati
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,808
RE: JUDAS FRICKIN PRIEST!!!
KITTY KITTY KITTY!!!
You are right I do get excited to hunt EVERY YEAR FOR SEVERAL MONTHS!!! YEP SEVERAL MONTHS CAT!!! Now I can tell ya that it has been 5 years since I've taken a buck. I've had hundreds of days of opportunity in those last several years, I've seen SEVERAL HUGE BUCKS AND HUNDREDS OF PISSCUTTERS.
Same argument as with the elk debate. I choose to hunt with a bow, that is my choice and I am not claiming to be any better or worse than those that hunt with smokepoles or rifles. We all understand that if ya hunt with a bow the ratio of hunt to kill is several times larger than the other weapons.
This hunt philosophy can and has been proven!!! Look at the Wasatch front extended hunt area. HOUSES!! HIKERS!!! TRAFFIC!!!
GOLF COURSES!!! This hunt has for the past several years provided MONTHS!!! NOT DAYS of opportunity. The caliber of bucks is fantsastic, the number of deer in this herd is fantastic. For archery this hunt gets pounded especially during the rutt and once the snow flies. DURING THE RIFLE HUNT THIS AREA GETS POUNDED!!! DURING THE MUZZ HUNT THIS AREA GETS WORKED.
So why would this unit with everything seemingly against be a success story like it is???
FOUR WORDS FOR YA KITTY KITTY
ACCESS AND SUCCESS RATES.
THE ONLY ww THAT KNOWS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OPPORTUNITY AND KILLING!!!!
KITTY KITTY KITTY!!!
You are right I do get excited to hunt EVERY YEAR FOR SEVERAL MONTHS!!! YEP SEVERAL MONTHS CAT!!! Now I can tell ya that it has been 5 years since I've taken a buck. I've had hundreds of days of opportunity in those last several years, I've seen SEVERAL HUGE BUCKS AND HUNDREDS OF PISSCUTTERS.
Same argument as with the elk debate. I choose to hunt with a bow, that is my choice and I am not claiming to be any better or worse than those that hunt with smokepoles or rifles. We all understand that if ya hunt with a bow the ratio of hunt to kill is several times larger than the other weapons.
This hunt philosophy can and has been proven!!! Look at the Wasatch front extended hunt area. HOUSES!! HIKERS!!! TRAFFIC!!!
GOLF COURSES!!! This hunt has for the past several years provided MONTHS!!! NOT DAYS of opportunity. The caliber of bucks is fantsastic, the number of deer in this herd is fantastic. For archery this hunt gets pounded especially during the rutt and once the snow flies. DURING THE RIFLE HUNT THIS AREA GETS POUNDED!!! DURING THE MUZZ HUNT THIS AREA GETS WORKED.
So why would this unit with everything seemingly against be a success story like it is???
FOUR WORDS FOR YA KITTY KITTY
ACCESS AND SUCCESS RATES.
THE ONLY ww THAT KNOWS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OPPORTUNITY AND KILLING!!!!
P
Prism
Guest
Dax,
Very well said.
I know that there are a lot of hunters out there that are just happy to have a tag and coud care less about shooting a deer let a lone a big deer.
But I believe an ever growing majority of Utah's hunters are sick and tired of our current management plans-or lack of implementing what we already have.
I also understand the DWR relies on money to run. That being said I believe the DWR currently has more money now than they've ever had.
There's more money available from from the state of Utah, and heaven (and hell) knows there's more money now from our ever popular conservation tags.
There are a lot of ways to keep tag income at or above current levels and still improve our deer herds. I honestly think we could vastly improve our deer herds and still keep 90,000 plus deer tags. Utah's shotgun approach to managing the current 5 general season tag units just isn't cutting it. The early storm of 2004 proved this-allowing 10s of thousands of hunters to hunt deer on the winter range is just stupid management in todays world.
The NE region sold out this year in the draw for the first time. The Northern region is just a few years down the road. The DWR must sit back and go hmmmmm we must be doing something right look at how fast we can sell our tags-the demand for our #$@$ deer hunting is grat.
Just like any business if you can sell all you've got and demand goes up every year why change anything???.........
Very well said.
I know that there are a lot of hunters out there that are just happy to have a tag and coud care less about shooting a deer let a lone a big deer.
But I believe an ever growing majority of Utah's hunters are sick and tired of our current management plans-or lack of implementing what we already have.
I also understand the DWR relies on money to run. That being said I believe the DWR currently has more money now than they've ever had.
There's more money available from from the state of Utah, and heaven (and hell) knows there's more money now from our ever popular conservation tags.
There are a lot of ways to keep tag income at or above current levels and still improve our deer herds. I honestly think we could vastly improve our deer herds and still keep 90,000 plus deer tags. Utah's shotgun approach to managing the current 5 general season tag units just isn't cutting it. The early storm of 2004 proved this-allowing 10s of thousands of hunters to hunt deer on the winter range is just stupid management in todays world.
The NE region sold out this year in the draw for the first time. The Northern region is just a few years down the road. The DWR must sit back and go hmmmmm we must be doing something right look at how fast we can sell our tags-the demand for our #$@$ deer hunting is grat.
Just like any business if you can sell all you've got and demand goes up every year why change anything???.........
B
bobcatbess
Guest
JUDAS wiley!!!
YOU PISSCUTTIN BEACH!!!
SEVERAL HUGE BUCKS,LMMFAO,WTF???
I BELIEVE YOU ON THE PISSCUTTERS THOUGH!!!
HMMM???
LOOK AT THE WASATCH!!!
O.K.!!!
IT WAS A SLAUGHTER FOR A YEAR OR TWO BUT HOW ABOUT THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS???
ACCESS WITH YOUR TWO FRICKEN FEET AIN'T A PROBLEM!!!
YOU KNOW THE FRICKEN STORY!!!
YOU WANT ME TO SPLAIN IT TO YOU ONE MORE FRICKEN TIME???
YOU DON'T NEED TO BUY A FRICKEN DEER TAG JUST FOR EVERYBODY & THEIR BUDDY'S BUDDY TO GO CAMPING THE SAME WEEK!!!
ACCESS IS GETTING BETTER wiley!!!
SUCCESS ON QUALITY MULE DEER IS TOUGH & PISS POOR!!!
THE ONLY bobcat GIVING wiley A WAKE UP CALL,WAKE UP,WAKE UP,WAKE UP!!! }> }> }>
YOU PISSCUTTIN BEACH!!!
SEVERAL HUGE BUCKS,LMMFAO,WTF???
I BELIEVE YOU ON THE PISSCUTTERS THOUGH!!!
HMMM???
LOOK AT THE WASATCH!!!
O.K.!!!
IT WAS A SLAUGHTER FOR A YEAR OR TWO BUT HOW ABOUT THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS???
ACCESS WITH YOUR TWO FRICKEN FEET AIN'T A PROBLEM!!!
YOU KNOW THE FRICKEN STORY!!!
YOU WANT ME TO SPLAIN IT TO YOU ONE MORE FRICKEN TIME???
YOU DON'T NEED TO BUY A FRICKEN DEER TAG JUST FOR EVERYBODY & THEIR BUDDY'S BUDDY TO GO CAMPING THE SAME WEEK!!!
ACCESS IS GETTING BETTER wiley!!!
SUCCESS ON QUALITY MULE DEER IS TOUGH & PISS POOR!!!
THE ONLY bobcat GIVING wiley A WAKE UP CALL,WAKE UP,WAKE UP,WAKE UP!!! }> }> }>
M
MOUNTAIN_HUNTER
Guest
NOPE!
Funny thing went to visit my 90+ grandfather last night and showed him some of the sheds I had been picking up. Then I asked him what it was like when he was a boy. He said that their were bucks all over the place. They didn't shoot the does because they didn't need to. Funny to think that? Imagine if we didn't slaughter the does that produce. Imagine how many deer their would be then. Who knows maybe then we would all just kill bucks?
MH
Funny thing went to visit my 90+ grandfather last night and showed him some of the sheds I had been picking up. Then I asked him what it was like when he was a boy. He said that their were bucks all over the place. They didn't shoot the does because they didn't need to. Funny to think that? Imagine if we didn't slaughter the does that produce. Imagine how many deer their would be then. Who knows maybe then we would all just kill bucks?
MH
swbuckmaster
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,004
There are over the counter tags in Utah with huge bucks ?200? in areas with very limited winter range massive amounts of hunting pressure.
What is the difference in this area compared to every other area in Utah? It's the absence of orange rifle hunters on their fourwheelers.
Big bucks=less rifle hunters and limited access.
I personally would like to see over the counter archery tags and draw only muzzle loader and rifle tags. This also works for one of the best areas in the world the Arizona Strip.
Weather you like it or not Archery hunting doesn't hurt the elk or mule deer in Utah.
What is the difference in this area compared to every other area in Utah? It's the absence of orange rifle hunters on their fourwheelers.
Big bucks=less rifle hunters and limited access.
I personally would like to see over the counter archery tags and draw only muzzle loader and rifle tags. This also works for one of the best areas in the world the Arizona Strip.
Weather you like it or not Archery hunting doesn't hurt the elk or mule deer in Utah.
