I know its old news

YELUM

Long Time Member
Messages
3,515
But I still hear people referring the the Spider bull as high fenced. I think its funny but some are serious. So after reading this on the Boone and Crockett web site, I thought I'd post it here.

Yelum

http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgRecords/records_newwr3.asp?area=bgRecords&ID=14321A36&se=1&te=1


memorandum

To: Boone and Crockett Club Big Game Records Committee


From: Eldon L. ?Buck? Buckner

Date: December 23, 2008


Subject: Austad N.T. Elk Entry Investigation

As per the committee?s direction, I investigated the circumstances surrounding the harvest of this bull and found no evidence that would disqualify this elk from listing in the B&C Records. The following is a brief of my findings:

I personally discussed Denny Austad?s hunt for this bull via telephone two different times. Having met Denny previously and having performed confirming measurements on 3 other trophies he has taken, I know him to be a passionate outdoorsmen to the degree of engineering his own cartridge and rifle designs. My personal feeling is, while Denny is passionate about selectively hunting for trophy specimens, he does not overly advertise his accomplishments in the field and has a great sense of responsibility to conservation. He does like to hunt big deer and elk and has several mounted in his modest home in Idaho.

I asked him to write a narrative of his hunt and send it in with the entry materials after his bull was initially measured by B&C Official Measurer, Rusty Hall after the 60-day drying period, which he did. His written account is a very brief version that mirrored our previous telephone conversation. I would add that I was at the FNAWS?Mule Deer Foundation?Sportsmen for Wildlife joint show in Salt Lake City when Denny purchased the Utah elk tag at auction. It was the first time he'd ever purchased such a tag, and he called his wife from there to tell her and ask if they were still married!

I talked with outfitter Doyle Moss via telephone, who personally guided Denny on the hunt. I last spoke with him about the hunt on Dec. 16th. They first saw the bull about July 1, in velvet, and sent Denny a video of the bull. At that time, and into early September, the bull spent a lot of time feeding on various parcels of private land surrounded by Fishlake National Forest Land in the Monroe Unit east of Richfield, Utah, in high country which is very accessible by road. I learned that as news of the bull spread, other outfitters and hunters begin scouting for the bull. According to Doyle, they did not have anyone trying to maintain constant surveillance on the bull. As Denny stated, he believed the bull must have grown weary of all the unwanted attention because he had moved into thick, rough timbered country before his hunt started on Sept. 1st. They found him on Sept. 12th at long range, made an unsuccessful stalk, then stumbled across the bull on their way out, which resulted in a missed shot. Denny returned home sick on the 13th, with carbon monoxide poisoning. He was still recovering from that when Doyle called him on the 29th to say that his guide living at Richfield, Clint Bigelow, had seen the bull a couple days earlier. The bull had moved about 12 miles south with some cows toward wintering range. Doyle felt they could find him if Denny could resume his hunt. Doyle met Denny at the Utah-Idaho line and they drove together to Richfield, got a few hours sleep, then accompanied by guide Bigelow, drove out in the dark of morning to look for the bull, which they found with about 14 cows in high sagebrush/aspen stringer country. Denny made a one shot kill, a high lung shot, with one of his custom designed .300 magnums.

On 12/18/08, I contacted Vance Munford who is with the Utah Game Dept. and is the biologist for the area that includes the Monroe Unit where the bull was shot. He and other officers verified that the bull was shot on public land within the Fishlake National Forest, that all applicable permits were in place, and that the bull was legally taken. Responding to rumors that the bull was a ?stocked? bull, they examined the cape and head at the taxidermist for any evidence of old ear tags, lip tattoos or other game farm ID that are both required and typical of such animals, and found no evidence of such.

I also reached Mike Fowlks, who is head of Law Enforcement of Utah game department (also an official B&C Measurer). He confirmed that the bull was shot on public land, and further that they had investigated claims (by unidentified third parties) that Austad and Moss had trespassed and hunted on private property. They found that Austad and Moss had indeed approached private land boundaries, but, by their tracks had remained on public land and had not trespassed. He said that there also had been reports of National Forest roads being illegally blocked, supposedly by Mossback Outfitters, but they could never find a person who actually saw this ? it was always 3rd party info. Mike also said that they had done considerable checking, and confirmed that at least 55 other hunters had opportunity and did hunt the area during the archery, rifle, and muzzle-loader seasons. Any of them had the opportunity to find the bull.

On 12/18/08 at 6:30pm, I also talked with Fishlake National Forest Biologist Craig Rasmussen by telephone. He has 15 years experience in the area. A friend of his believes he saw the same bull the fall before, as many antler characteristics were the same. He said he saw the bull during the rut a couple times, and was amazed that someone hadn't harvested the bull before Austad did. He said the increased traffic and business brought to Richfield by the notoriety of this bull was unbelievable. From sales of binoculars, meals, motel rooms, fuel, etc., he thinks the bull was a great economic factor for the town. He also said that so much pressure caused the elk to move from their usual feeding ground into more remote country. He said also that the cows started migrating toward winter range about 3 weeks ahead of the usual time this year, dragging some bulls with them, including the Austad bull.

According to Rasmussen, various conservation groups such as the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation have contributed a lot of money in improving 30,000 acres of habitat on the Monroe Unit, and some 75,000 acres have been improved on the Fishlake National Forest in total. This improvement is from prescribed burning and pipe-harrow treatment of stagnant sagebrush stands on transition range.

Rasmussen stated that he was constantly in the unit during the elk season and that he never observed any illegal activity by Mossback Outfitters, nor was he able to substantiate any of the rumored unethical practices they were being accused of via internet blogs, etc.

After just reading the investigation of others who have, or planed to publish stories in the media about this bull I can find nothing there to conflict with what I've discovered in my own investigation of this trophy and consider it a legally taken trophy that complies with our entry affidavit requirements and is eligible for B&C Awards.

Eldon ?Buck? Buckner
V.P. ? Records Division
Boone and Crockett Club
 
Well YELUM!

Think!

Think!

I ain't accusing anybody of anything till I see it with my own eyes!

1-Most Big Utah Bulls have names once they reach a certain size!

2-Most Big Utah Bulls in the Wild don't get to be 500",I wish they did!:D

3-A Bull of the Spider Bulls Caliber would have surely been seen in Prior years when he was just a lil ole PISSCUTTER 360"er,395"er,435"er or maybe a 465"er don't Ya think?

4-A Bull such as the Spider Bull has a Unique set of Antlers,again,show me some of his Sheds when He was just a DINK 400"er from a Previous year!(And not the Phony set of Sheds that were posted on here & Youtube,I'm talkin a Legit set!}

5-Show me another Bull in the Wild that has an Antler Formation anything even close to this FREAK they call the Spider Bull!

6-Show me some footage of another 500" Bull in TARDville walking past a Camp Trailer!

7-There's lots of Famous TARDville Bulls that have been Harvested & been Famous for a few years,this Bull was Famous for a few Months prior to his Death!

8-Spider surely done some Breeding in his day,where the HELL is some pictures of the Spider Bull OffSpring at?

-------------------------------------------

NOPE!

Not saying Doyle & the Posse did anything Wrong!

I wasn't anywhere near the area when things went down!

I've never seen with my own eyes Doyle or the Posse Blocking Roads!

I've heard of lots of BS going down but until I see it with my own eyes I won't Say anything Bad about any of them!

Doyle is Smart enough to know what puts Bread & Butter on the Dinner Plate,and as of the last few years it sure as Hell ain't been the UDWR's WildLife Management!

As I've said for the last several years!

You'll have Exceptions to the Rule but a 340"-350" Bull is once again a Big Bull here in TARDville!

The 400" of Antler has been Pounded in to everybody's head so hard & heavy that most Hunters when they finally pull a Tag don't even wanna glance at a lil ole PISSCUTTER 360" Bull!

I'll Guarantee you them times are Changing!

Thanks YELUM,bet this is just what Doyle,NUNYA & the Boys wanted to see!}>}>}>







[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!


I've got Wild Honey Tree's and Crazy Little Weeds growin around my Shack!
These Dusty Roads ain't streets of gold but I'm happy right where I'm at!
All these Perty little Western Belles are a Country Boys Dream!
They ain't got Wings or MM Halo's but they sure look good to me!
 
Well, SHOW ME, I never saw the bull, or any of his sheds, but the article stated a game officer did see a bull with similar genetics the previous year, and I know Reggie P, from TU filmed a bull he thought was spider either a year or two before.

I ain't got all the answers, I just don't believe it was raised on a ranch as some claim. And B&C agrees with me. And they tend to be pretty picky.

Yelum
 
sttm,, i agree with you, something just dont click.( bc club worst thing for wildlife},,,,
 
Spend any time down on Monroe and you'll see some wild genetics. Spend any time there in the summer and you'll have a lot of big bulls walk thru your camp within spitting distance. A bunch of other hunters had as much opportunity as Doyle and Denny.
Monroe is also surrounded by Fishlake, Dutton, Pahvant, Beaver, and Boulder. He coulda came from any of those units.



Traditional >>>------->
 
SPLAIN it Boys!














[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!


I've got Wild Honey Tree's and Crazy Little Weeds growin around my Shack!
These Dusty Roads ain't streets of gold but I'm happy right where I'm at!
All these Perty little Western Belles are a Country Boys Dream!
They ain't got Wings or MM Halo's but they sure look good to me!
 
>Spend any time down on Monroe
>and you'll see some wild
>genetics. Spend any time there
>in the summer and you'll
>have a lot of big
>bulls walk thru your camp
>within spitting distance. A bunch
>of other hunters had as
>much opportunity as Doyle and
>Denny.
>Monroe is also surrounded by Fishlake,
>Dutton, Pahvant, Beaver, and Boulder.
>He coulda came from any
>of those units.
>
>
>
>Traditional >>>------->


So HorseCreek?

How many 500" Bulls did you say you've seen walk past a/your Camp Trailer?:D



[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!


I've got Wild Honey Tree's and Crazy Little Weeds growin around my Shack!
These Dusty Roads ain't streets of gold but I'm happy right where I'm at!
All these Perty little Western Belles are a Country Boys Dream!
They ain't got Wings or MM Halo's but they sure look good to me!
 
>>Spend any time down on Monroe
>>and you'll see some wild
>>genetics. Spend any time there
>>in the summer and you'll
>>have a lot of big
>>bulls walk thru your camp
>>within spitting distance. A bunch
>>of other hunters had as
>>much opportunity as Doyle and
>>Denny.
>>Monroe is also surrounded by Fishlake,
>>Dutton, Pahvant, Beaver, and Boulder.
>>He coulda came from any
>>of those units.
>>
>>
>>
>>Traditional >>>------->
>
>
>So HorseCreek?
>
>How many 500" Bulls did you
>say you've seen walk past
>a/your Camp Trailer?:D
>
>
>
>[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
>
>If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM
>TO ME!
>
>
>I've got Wild Honey Tree's and
>Crazy Little Weeds growin around
>my Shack!
>These Dusty Roads ain't streets of
>gold but I'm happy right
>where I'm at!
>All these Perty little Western Belles
>are a Country Boys Dream!
>
>They ain't got Wings or MM
>Halo's but they sure look
>good to me!
>

At least a dozen




Traditional >>>------->
 
Was the Multiplication factor X2?

Or X3?:D

[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!


I've got Wild Honey Tree's and Crazy Little Weeds growin around my Shack!
These Dusty Roads ain't streets of gold but I'm happy right where I'm at!
All these Perty little Western Belles are a Country Boys Dream!
They ain't got Wings or MM Halo's but they sure look good to me!
 
People are just jealous they didn't harvest it. It must have been high-fenced because they didn't see it before. Give me a break.
 
>That was just this year....but that
>number is down 27% from
>last year. :)
>
>
>Traditional >>>------->

So HorseCreek?

Normally /On a Good wet year, they'd be 635" Bulls?:D




[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!


I've got Wild Honey Tree's and Crazy Little Weeds growin around my Shack!
These Dusty Roads ain't streets of gold but I'm happy right where I'm at!
All these Perty little Western Belles are a Country Boys Dream!
They ain't got Wings or MM Halo's but they sure look good to me!
 
I agree 100% with this .

>People are just jealous they didn't
>harvest it. It must
>have been high-fenced because they
>didn't see it before.
>Give me a break.
 
get over it....don't be a hater....55 other guys had a chance at him...plus the 100's of spotters looking for them, ALL the archery hunters could not get it done....ALL the rifle hunters could not get it done....plus the muzz hunters were having a go at him....guided or DYI he is a great bull....




How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
>>That was just this year....but that
>>number is down 27% from
>>last year. :)
>>
>>
>>Traditional >>>------->
>
>So HorseCreek?
>
>Normally /On a Good wet year,
>they'd be 635" Bulls?:D
>
>
>
>
>[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
>
>If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM
>TO ME!
>
>
>I've got Wild Honey Tree's and
>Crazy Little Weeds growin around
>my Shack!
>These Dusty Roads ain't streets of
>gold but I'm happy right
>where I'm at!
>All these Perty little Western Belles
>are a Country Boys Dream!
>
>They ain't got Wings or MM
>Halo's but they sure look
>good to me!
>

Haha, no Bess, the number of bulls are also down 27% :)




Traditional >>>------->
 
>So ShowyerTesticlesToMe, if you're not sayin
>then just exactly what ARE
>you sayin?

Well NVB!

What I be sayin is:

I'm not Whining!

I'm not sayin Doyle & the Posse done anything Wrong!

I'm not JEALOUS cuzz I don't have a 500" Bull on my wall,GEEZUS!:D

I'm kinda Sayin:ShowThemToMe:

Pics from previous years!

A Legit Shed or two from previous years when He was just a lil ole PISSCUTTER 465" Bull!

Some OffSpring Bulls,GEEZUS,it's been years & nobody has taken a Spider Jr Bull,WTF?

Not a DWR or USFS or BLM Guy saying:I mighta/almost seen him the Fall before He was Harvested!

HELL SAKES NVB,I mighta/almost got #### last night!:D

You know what I'm sayin now NVB?






[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!


I've got Wild Honey Tree's and Crazy Little Weeds growin around my Shack!
These Dusty Roads ain't streets of gold but I'm happy right where I'm at!
All these Perty little Western Belles are a Country Boys Dream!
They ain't got Wings or MM Halo's but they sure look good to me!
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-12-12 AT 01:36PM (MST)[p]who really cares, its a neat bull, I have seen some ranch bulls that are bigger and its just a set of horns.
The whole thing is a story of changes in the hunting world, money, technology, and shrinking wildlands.
The difference between fair chase and not is becoming blurred. While B and C does a good job of defining fair chase, it becomes harder all the time, you can see how all the guides and hunters on the AZ strip are ignoring B and C because of the definition of electronic devices, it seems most believe just getting the animal far outweighs being able to enter it into the book.
 
Yes I do know what you're sayin Bess. You're sayin you don't believe the Spider bull is legit and therefore you're implying all those other things.

And I'll show them to you. I think its weird you wanna see em, but I'll show them to you.
 
>Yes I do know what you're
>sayin Bess. You're sayin you
>don't believe the Spider bull
>is legit

Wrong NVB!

Not sayin He ain't Legit!

Prove to me he is!


and therefore you're
>implying all those other things.
>
>
>And I'll show them to you.
>I think its weird you
>wanna see em, but I'll
>show them to you.


[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!


I've got Wild Honey Tree's and Crazy Little Weeds growin around my Shack!
These Dusty Roads ain't streets of gold but I'm happy right where I'm at!
All these Perty little Western Belles are a Country Boys Dream!
They ain't got Wings or MM Halo's but they sure look good to me!
 
Give me ONE good reason why Austed or Moss should feel compelled in any way to prove anything to a bunch of jackwagons on the internet. Is Mossbacks business hurting because people don't believe? Does the bull look any less spectacular displayed in Austeds house? If it was me I wouldn't waste the breath it would take to tell you to get screwed.
 
>Give me ONE good reason why
>Austed or Moss should feel
>compelled in any way to
>prove anything to a bunch
>of jackwagons on the internet.
>Is Mossbacks business hurting because
>people don't believe? Does the
>bull look any less spectacular
>displayed in Austeds house? If
>it was me I wouldn't
>waste the breath it would
>take to tell you to
>get screwed.

You NVB can take a F'N Hike!

I'm not Bashing Anybody!

I didn't say I didn't Believe!

I said show me some Proof to Believe!

I have nothin against Mossback,I've met Doyle a few times,I'm Friends with several of his Hands!

If his Business is Hurting(And It's really none of my Business & I hope He's doing Well!) it would be due to Poor Management by the UDWR on Our LE Units & Elsewhere!

Again,I'm not Thrashing & Bashing anybody NVB,Pay Attention!








[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!


I've got Wild Honey Tree's and Crazy Little Weeds growin around my Shack!
These Dusty Roads ain't streets of gold but I'm happy right where I'm at!
All these Perty little Western Belles are a Country Boys Dream!
They ain't got Wings or MM Halo's but they sure look good to me!
 
Goddamn Bess, you're still a lot of fun to rile up!

So you don't believe forest service or fish n game guys. No surprise. So who would you believe? The waitresses down at that place you hang out? Those "hands" of Mossbacks you're friends with? NUNYA? Have you asked them?


I think I'll go take a F'n hike. :D

TUCC
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-12-12 AT 05:35PM (MST)[p]
The Spider bull looks eerily similar to a lot of the bulls that come out of Broadmouth Canyon. Just saying.

Eldorado
 
I have to agree with ShowThemToMe. It just doesn't add up. Whether you believe the spider bull lived in that same area his whole life or you believe the spider bull migrated in from another area or state, you can't tell me that he was so sneaky all the previous years before his death that he was never ONCE captured on one of the thousands of trail cams out there, or that he was never seen by the thousands of amateur and professional hunters state or nation wide. Or that he never even dropped ONE single shed in a place where someone might find it. (even the super elusive Buck of Justice couldn't hide his sheds from everyone) You can't tell me that he went from being that elusive all those years to comfortably walking past camp trailers in broad daylight the next year. All the sudden we have pictures, videos and all sorts of knowledge of him. He went from complete obscurity to rockstar status in a matter of months. If someone could give a lodgical explanation of how this happened I would be more convinced.
 
anyone seen the bull at the Poky zoo. Things a freak. Pure Rocky Mountain Elk though. But being fed grain and alfalfa hay, he grew one hell of a rack. all it takes is some feed, and decent genetics.
Of course this Zoo bull would never be geneticly seen as more than a pure elk. Not a hybrid.
Im not jealous, lord knows I do not want that kind of attention. I just feel there is something not adding up to this bull. I dont think he was ever 'wild'. could have been farm raised and got out or was let out. who the hell knows.
but for a bull of that caliber not being seen or no sheds in UTAH of all places.. humm..
 
Oh boy he made phone calls to all the people whos ass would be in a sling if it turned out it was a high fence bull......that pretty much makes it a sure thing....everyone with an ounce of common sense knows this was a sham,that crew and that hunter will do anything to make names for themselves.Some day B&C will eat crow for allowing this bull into the book,some day someone will spill the beans,pretty much removes any credibility the B&C club had anyways.
 
They gonna Love Ya YELUM for this one!:D



[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!


I've got Wild Honey Tree's and Crazy Little Weeds growin around my Shack!
These Dusty Roads ain't streets of gold but I'm happy right where I'm at!
All these Perty little Western Belles are a Country Boys Dream!
They ain't got Wings or MM Halo's but they sure look good to me!
 
Cactus bull with mad cow disease, ok now get over it there's no sheds and he just went nuts!!!!


I just call em as I see em!
 
yes sir i would say the forest service and dwr are as truefull as it gets,,,,,they are real good with numbers,,,,
 
So somebody drove a bull from either Idaho, or Cache Valley Utah all the way down to south central utah? Just to plant the animal?

What planet do you live on??

Plus I was just looking on the Broadmouth website. None of their bulls look like the spider bull.

"Just Sayin"
 
"Plus I was just looking on the Broadmouth website. None of their bulls look like the spider bull."

Their transplant program is top secret. They keep those Bulls in a special 51 acre area nicknamed area 51........ Terry
 
pookiebar. with a name like that ,its plain to see you would know,,,your not doyls little pookiebar are yu?
 
"pookiebar. with a name like that ,its plain to see you would know,,,your not doyls little pookiebar are yu?"

First of all I will do what knuckle dragging morons like yourself hate. Let's make this post a little more legible to normal English reading people.

The correct grammar and sentence structure for your post should read:

"Pookiebar, with a name like that, it's plain to see you would know. . . You're not Doyl's little pookiebar are you?"


Hope that helps. Don't worry, English is a very hard language. Someday you will get 'er down.
 
Now second of all, I can't help it that I really like reading the nickname my wife screams out in the night . . . but that is a discussion for a different thread.

And finally, back to the Spider Bull.

There is a chance, though remote, that the bull escaped from a farm. Guys who fault B&C for their finding that it was indeed a wild animal don't make any sense to me. They, B&C, used all of their knowledge to prove that it was indeed a fair chase animal. They were not able to find any markings or previous evidence that it was a farm raised animal. So B&C has no choice but to believe the story and evidence provided to them by the hunter and his guide.

I do know some of Doyl's guides very well, though I don't know Doyl. The truth is the guys I know are very honest, and they would do just about anything to help someone out. Though I know them to be a bit crazy, even from a very early age, they are honest guys. They are present in the picture with the Spider Bull, which means they were there for the final hunt. The truth is none of the Mossback guides really care about a bunch of pissing and moaning idiots who think the trophy is not real. Their reaction to these charges is simply to laugh and say there are a lot of crazy stories out there, and there always will be. The people who really matter, B&C have done what they can to put the crazy stories to rest, and that obviously doesn't matter to some people.

All that being said, I have some real concern about the Spider Bull situation. Though I don't fault Mossback for any of their business practices, the truth is I worry about the trend this has set. Tropy animals on public land put up for auction, and the high price that some people can/will spend is something that scares me. I worry that with trends like this, our hunting heritage may not be worth passing on to our kids. But that is a debate for another thread/day.

Hope you can read this El kunt, but I would not be surprised if you can't read so much in one sitting.
 

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