PleaseDear
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Check your c-cards for a drop in available credit/pending or an actual charge as Az. is hitting cards for the draw!
SaaaWwwweeet!!
Robb
SaaaWwwweeet!!
Robb
Az. Elk/Antelope 'Hitting Cards'!!
- Thread starter PleaseDear
- Start date
E
Elkslayer111
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Hi Robb!
I drew 3A/3C archery elk as a non-resident!!!! Finally!!!
Alan
I drew 3A/3C archery elk as a non-resident!!!! Finally!!!
Alan
PleaseDear
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Great for you Allen!!
You will have a ball down there.
Robb
You will have a ball down there.
Robb
BIGOLMULEY
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I drew either 9 or 10 archery. I am guessing 10 with double the tags. I had 7 points. Did not think I would draw. Non res
PleaseDear
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LAST EDITED ON Mar-22-13 AT 05:21PM (MST)[p]You could not go wrong on #9 or #10 young fella!
YD---Walk on Water brothaaa..haha
Robb
YD---Walk on Water brothaaa..haha
Robb
Bill_in_MI
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7 points eh, early or late season?
DonMartin
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Just had a friend e-mail about the post by BIGOLMULEY about drawing a Unit 9 or Unit 10 archery bull tag with only 7 seven points. "How could that happen," he asked.
I'll explain how it happened.
In Unit 9 archery there were 100 tags. There are two rules that affect Nr's, the 20% pass and 10% NR set aside.
So with 100 tags available in Unit 9, we know the top 20 tags went to those in the MAXIMUM BONUS POINT POOL, whatever it was!
We also know that under the 10% set aside rule for NR's, that in the Unit 9 hunt UP TO 10 tags COULD (but not guaranteed) be drawn by NR's.
So if he got a Unit 9 tag this had to happen. There were less than 10 NR's who got tags in the 20% pass draw. So when the remaining 80 tags went into the 2nd (general) draw, there had to be at LEAST one NR tag AVAILABLE (maybe more) and BIGOLMULEY had a super low number with his 7 bonus points and 1 application point and he drew it!
Now to Unit 10. Same thing. 200 tags available so that means the first 40 tags (20%) went to those hunters with max bonus points. How many Nr's COULD get tags in that 20% pass draw? Well 10% of 200 is 20, so that is how many tags NR's COULD get. But obviously they didn't that many, as there were still some tags available to NR's after that draw. There were 160 tags left over AFTER the 20% pass draw.
And there still had to be SOME NR tags AVAILABLE (but not guaranteed) as when the send draw went through, BIGOLMULEY got a tag! Assuming he got a Unit 10 and Not a Unit 9 tag.
I hope I didn't confuse you folks with these analogies.
But the bottom line is YES it probably did happen just like BIGOLMULEY said.
Good luck to him no matter what hunt he has!
This process is explained in great detail in our NR Supplemental Hunter Ed class.
It is in fact the beauty of the bonus point system.
Now let me end with a caveat. For those NR's who are NOT in the MAX bonus point pool for deer, who are applying for Unit 13B rifle deer tags that is a different matter. You CANNOT draw that tag cause there are none available after the 20% pass. The 10% has ALWAYS been drawn during the 20% pass. And yes, we explain that process in our Hunter Ed classes too.
Don Martin
Chief Instructor
AZ Hunter Education
Kingman
I'll explain how it happened.
In Unit 9 archery there were 100 tags. There are two rules that affect Nr's, the 20% pass and 10% NR set aside.
So with 100 tags available in Unit 9, we know the top 20 tags went to those in the MAXIMUM BONUS POINT POOL, whatever it was!
We also know that under the 10% set aside rule for NR's, that in the Unit 9 hunt UP TO 10 tags COULD (but not guaranteed) be drawn by NR's.
So if he got a Unit 9 tag this had to happen. There were less than 10 NR's who got tags in the 20% pass draw. So when the remaining 80 tags went into the 2nd (general) draw, there had to be at LEAST one NR tag AVAILABLE (maybe more) and BIGOLMULEY had a super low number with his 7 bonus points and 1 application point and he drew it!
Now to Unit 10. Same thing. 200 tags available so that means the first 40 tags (20%) went to those hunters with max bonus points. How many Nr's COULD get tags in that 20% pass draw? Well 10% of 200 is 20, so that is how many tags NR's COULD get. But obviously they didn't that many, as there were still some tags available to NR's after that draw. There were 160 tags left over AFTER the 20% pass draw.
And there still had to be SOME NR tags AVAILABLE (but not guaranteed) as when the send draw went through, BIGOLMULEY got a tag! Assuming he got a Unit 10 and Not a Unit 9 tag.
I hope I didn't confuse you folks with these analogies.
But the bottom line is YES it probably did happen just like BIGOLMULEY said.
Good luck to him no matter what hunt he has!
This process is explained in great detail in our NR Supplemental Hunter Ed class.
It is in fact the beauty of the bonus point system.
Now let me end with a caveat. For those NR's who are NOT in the MAX bonus point pool for deer, who are applying for Unit 13B rifle deer tags that is a different matter. You CANNOT draw that tag cause there are none available after the 20% pass. The 10% has ALWAYS been drawn during the 20% pass. And yes, we explain that process in our Hunter Ed classes too.
Don Martin
Chief Instructor
AZ Hunter Education
Kingman
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
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I go back many years with Jason ~~ B.O.M....and he never has ever had a need to blow smoke up anyone's azz.
He say's he drew---then he drew.
Robb
He say's he drew---then he drew.
Robb
BIGOLMULEY
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LAST EDITED ON Mar-26-13 AT 08:32PM (MST)[p]I have been putting in for 9 and 10 for every year (archery). Knowing I would not draw, but always had the hope. AZ has been good to me as I drew a 13A rifle deer tags with 1 point (year they did not distinguish between res and non res due to the lawsuit) and a 13 A antelope the very next year with 2 points.
So when I got hit on the credit card I was freaking out, but believed it could happen. Even went so far as contacting my outfitter of choice and securing a spot as I am super busy at work and my guide schedule would not allow me hardly any time to scout. And I was going Big or nothing.
But then I kept hearing the same things, there is no way I could draw this tag. So I started doubting myself. I searched everywhere on their site to see if I could find out if I somehow made a mistake on my application. Could not find it so I called today to see if they could tell me. They are not nice on the phone. I imagine they are getting quite a few folks calling to find out what they drew. I told her I did not want to know what I drew, just what units I applied for. She got nice after that and said I applied for unit 9 early archery and unit 10 late archery........ I happened to be driving at the time and had to pull over. I felt sick, almost threw up. I had her confirm and sure enough, I had made an error in my application. What an idiot!
So it is true I did not draw. I have spend my points and all those years of point and license buying on a tag I could draw with 2 points I bet.
Of course AZ has the wonderful rule of not allowing return of tags under any circumstances. I did have her send me an appeal form, but she says its pretty much a waste of time. So my Huge mistake, has now become my challenge. Late season, busted bulls, and half the unit nearly off limits to me. Will be tough and definitely not what I have been putting in for AZ for.
Still sick about it, feel like the biggest fool, but I am going to give it my all.
Did not mean to mislead anyone. I mean I drew a strip tag as a non res with 1 point! It had to be possible! But not true this time. My stupid mistake. So lesson learned is double and triple check that app. Wish I would have, but will have fun all the same.
So of course the question is, where do I start? At least I am done guiding on the 10th of nov. I will head down shortly after and live on the place until its over. We will see how it goes.......
So when I got hit on the credit card I was freaking out, but believed it could happen. Even went so far as contacting my outfitter of choice and securing a spot as I am super busy at work and my guide schedule would not allow me hardly any time to scout. And I was going Big or nothing.
But then I kept hearing the same things, there is no way I could draw this tag. So I started doubting myself. I searched everywhere on their site to see if I could find out if I somehow made a mistake on my application. Could not find it so I called today to see if they could tell me. They are not nice on the phone. I imagine they are getting quite a few folks calling to find out what they drew. I told her I did not want to know what I drew, just what units I applied for. She got nice after that and said I applied for unit 9 early archery and unit 10 late archery........ I happened to be driving at the time and had to pull over. I felt sick, almost threw up. I had her confirm and sure enough, I had made an error in my application. What an idiot!
So it is true I did not draw. I have spend my points and all those years of point and license buying on a tag I could draw with 2 points I bet.
Of course AZ has the wonderful rule of not allowing return of tags under any circumstances. I did have her send me an appeal form, but she says its pretty much a waste of time. So my Huge mistake, has now become my challenge. Late season, busted bulls, and half the unit nearly off limits to me. Will be tough and definitely not what I have been putting in for AZ for.
Still sick about it, feel like the biggest fool, but I am going to give it my all.
Did not mean to mislead anyone. I mean I drew a strip tag as a non res with 1 point! It had to be possible! But not true this time. My stupid mistake. So lesson learned is double and triple check that app. Wish I would have, but will have fun all the same.
So of course the question is, where do I start? At least I am done guiding on the 10th of nov. I will head down shortly after and live on the place until its over. We will see how it goes.......
DonMartin
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BIGOLMULEY, why FRET!
Those huge bulls that Unit 10 bulls is famous for are still out there during your hunt, and yes some are not broken!
Just remember, under the Arizona bonus point system rules, you COULD have drawn either an early archery 9 or 10 tag IF there were tags left over and if you had a super low number.
That does happen every year!
Enjoy your Unit 10 hunt, and think positive that the Boquillas Ranch will be still be open and accessible for your hunt. Make the best of it, you're a guide, you'll have the time. Enjoy your hunt!
Don Martin
Those huge bulls that Unit 10 bulls is famous for are still out there during your hunt, and yes some are not broken!
Just remember, under the Arizona bonus point system rules, you COULD have drawn either an early archery 9 or 10 tag IF there were tags left over and if you had a super low number.
That does happen every year!
Enjoy your Unit 10 hunt, and think positive that the Boquillas Ranch will be still be open and accessible for your hunt. Make the best of it, you're a guide, you'll have the time. Enjoy your hunt!
Don Martin
LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-13 AT 00:13AM (MST)[p]Enjoy the hunt. That's where I'm headed as soon as I burn my dbl digit points.
There hasn't been an early nr archery tag drop out of the bonus round for 9 or 10 the last 4 years. Those random tags are pretty scarce.
There hasn't been an early nr archery tag drop out of the bonus round for 9 or 10 the last 4 years. Those random tags are pretty scarce.
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
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I swear by those late date hunts.
I go into the draw with 2-3 points including the Loyalty pt and I will be damned if I don't draw every 2-3 years now.
In 2011 I harvested an 8x6, a little broken up but--- and not a monster score but only 25 other guys in a whole freaking unit/hunt.....Perfect!
It is like our WF late date hunts....not chasing bugles but spot-n-stalk all the way.
You will be fine.
Robb
I go into the draw with 2-3 points including the Loyalty pt and I will be damned if I don't draw every 2-3 years now.
In 2011 I harvested an 8x6, a little broken up but--- and not a monster score but only 25 other guys in a whole freaking unit/hunt.....Perfect!
It is like our WF late date hunts....not chasing bugles but spot-n-stalk all the way.
You will be fine.
Robb
Just semantics-but in AZ the NR quota is not a "set-aside", its a max. Obviously Don understands this as he says up to 10% NR "could" draw.
NR set-asides are what we have here in NM.
As far as that guy that drew 9 or 10 with 7 pts as a NR, that would be highly unusual. Maybe some NR tags made it to the regular pass with the increase in tags and the boquillas access press...Here is a scary thought for him though, maybe he accidentally filled in the wrong hunt code and applied for something easy like a cow tag. My brother did it a few years ago...Check your application.
NR set-asides are what we have here in NM.
As far as that guy that drew 9 or 10 with 7 pts as a NR, that would be highly unusual. Maybe some NR tags made it to the regular pass with the increase in tags and the boquillas access press...Here is a scary thought for him though, maybe he accidentally filled in the wrong hunt code and applied for something easy like a cow tag. My brother did it a few years ago...Check your application.
wildwilderness
Active Member
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Here is a scary thought
>for him though, maybe he
>accidentally filled in the wrong
>hunt code and applied for
>something easy like a cow
>tag. My brother did
>it a few years ago...Check
>your application.
If you read the whole response above that is what happened- a late hunt code was accidentally entered.
>for him though, maybe he
>accidentally filled in the wrong
>hunt code and applied for
>something easy like a cow
>tag. My brother did
>it a few years ago...Check
>your application.
If you read the whole response above that is what happened- a late hunt code was accidentally entered.
C
cactusjack7mm
Guest
PM sent
C
cactusjack7mm
Guest
BIGOMULEY
Whoops. missed that. thanks for pointing it out. Dang, I was hoping that a NR 10 early archery tag had slipped out of the bonus pass into the general draw. Unlikely and in this case did not happen. Oh well, the late hunt is tough but a lot of effort and a lot of luck can work out well.
BIGOLMULEY
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So it is true. Late 10 archery here I come. Going to get some maps and do some scouting that way for a while. If I can make it happen to get down there earlier to learn some roads ect. I will. But think I will head down a few days early and then stay the entire hunt.
Lessened learned, but feeling excited about the hunt.
Jason "The Big Ol' Muley"
Lessened learned, but feeling excited about the hunt.
Jason "The Big Ol' Muley"
PleaseDear
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That is the Spirit!!
You will enjoy no doubt.
Robb
You will enjoy no doubt.
Robb
Bill_in_MI
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LAST EDITED ON Apr-04-13 AT 05:45AM (MST)[p]Congrats on the tags guys. Interesting story on the unit 10 tag too.
With the recent years not yielding an early 9/10 archery tag to a NR outside of the 20% bonus pass, it has made it clear that this is not an anomaly.
As long as there are significantly more NR's who own more elk bonus points as compared to residents, then by default more NR tags are allotted in the 20% pass than residents.
The only way this changes is for a decline in NR participation, a significant increase of early tags, and/or significantly higher point creep for residents. The last point equates to the system bogging down and yielding a higher % of residents being drawn in the 20% pass.
With the recent years not yielding an early 9/10 archery tag to a NR outside of the 20% bonus pass, it has made it clear that this is not an anomaly.
As long as there are significantly more NR's who own more elk bonus points as compared to residents, then by default more NR tags are allotted in the 20% pass than residents.
The only way this changes is for a decline in NR participation, a significant increase of early tags, and/or significantly higher point creep for residents. The last point equates to the system bogging down and yielding a higher % of residents being drawn in the 20% pass.
BIGOLMULEY
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The season dates are Nov. 15-28. I guide a hunt Nov. 6-10. I figure I will head down on the 12 or 13th and stay until the end.
Well with me out of the point pool now, maybe that creeps someone closer to getting a random tag.
Good luck to all those who did get a tag this year.
Jason "The Big Ol' Muley"
Well with me out of the point pool now, maybe that creeps someone closer to getting a random tag.
Good luck to all those who did get a tag this year.
Jason "The Big Ol' Muley"
Silentstalker
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Enjoy your hunt Jason. If anyone can have a great hunt and enjoy it, its you. You will do great!
BIGOLMULEY
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Thanks Chad! I actually am getting pretty excited about it.
Going to go for the duration and see what happens. Should be fun.
Going to go for the duration and see what happens. Should be fun.
