Unbelievable

[Verticalslope]

Is it just me or are hunters in general be coming less courteous. I headed down to me twenty year deer hunting spot early in the a.m. this past muzzle loader opener. My boy, his buddy and I made sure we slipped in quietly, in the dark off to the side of the deer. All this to ensure the deer didn't smell us or bust out early. We were in position on our scouted deer and hour and a half before sunrise. It was a long cold wait.
At sunrise I started to see some deer out feeding. Then I observed the several hunters I expected to see. Four of them in groups of two moving across the top of the draw right above the feeding and bedding area of the deer, allowing their scent to drift down to the deer. I expected this and hoped to benefit from it. I was 400 yards below them standing on a small ridge in the open. I began moving to where the hunters on the ridge could see me. I glassed them and they glassed me. Two of the hunters moved out and looked for another spot as you would expect from people who have some ethics. Four of them began heading my way. To my amazement, I was surrounded by the four hunters within a few minutes. I mean within archery range surrounded. That sat down and began glassing the small timber pocket I was already at. I can't figure it out. They didn't come talk to me just sat down and took over the place.
Out of frustration I moved around to my two boys. Only to find out that two more hunters walked up to them and stated, ? oh, I was hoping to hunt this spot ? . They walked up hill a 80 ranged yards and sat down where they remained the rest of the day. I guess it serves me right for going out on the opener of the muzzle loader hunt. I just figured people would have some common courtesy. I was wrong.

 

[TripleK]

Well stay off the roads too....you just might get run over out there! I fear for my life during the gen. season deer hunt.

 

[deserteagle500]

you would think that getting off the roads and scouting and doing all that work would weed out the unethical hunters. i hate reading stories like this. good luck on your next venture into the great out doors.




beat this

 

[Jbozahunter]

X2, Big Time.

Definately no ethics anymore. I posted a similar message about the same kind of issues w/4-wheelers, and pickups in the archery section. I feel your pain, brother.

The problem is, you can't get away from the idiots.
Jbo

 

[maddogpt]

I had the same thing happen to me in the Sierra Nevada range this year. We were at our spots well before 1st light. At 1 st light I had a hunter stand withing 20yds of me. I said" you gotta be kidding me". All he said was " oh sorry" and moved up the hill 100yds from me. Well no deer came by and I had scouted the same spot for 3 weeks and always saw bucks. I dont know what to do. If you confront the SOBs it just ruins the hunt. Your gues is as good as mine.

 

[_droptine_]

I hear your pain. I grew up in Utah and hunted it a lot and had a great time. I have since moved away and currently live in Colorado. I have had great experiences hunting here and all of the hunters I have met in the woods have been curteous and I have never had any problems.

3 years ago, I decided I was going to go back to Utah and muzzleloader hunt a place I hadn't hunted in over a decade. I had the exact same experience you did. To even go one step further, in spite of the fact that there were people all around me, I did manage to find a buck and started to stalk it. The other people up the hill from me finally saw what I was doing and started to shoot at the deer from 500 yards away with a muzzleloader. I was between them and the deer. Needless to say, the deer didn't stick around and neither did I. I haven't been back to hunt and don't know if I ever will again. To bad, it is a great place to hunt, but I don't want to go to another state and wonder if I will make it out alive.

 

[Bowtecher]

I don't usually see other hunters in the woods.
But this happened to me this year.

I had been scouting an area since mid july using some trail cameras
and hiking looking for tracks,beds old wallows you know the good stuff.
After getting over 100 pics of elk on my trail cams I figured I would hunt the area a few days,it was a 35 mile drive from where I was camping.Hunted there the 2nd day of archery.Heard a bull bugle as soon as we got out of the truck,moved in on him and his cows.He was a nice 6 point but I couldn't get the shot at 40 yards to many small pine trees regrowing.
So the next weekend when my hunting partners were able to come back we decided lets go give her a try.This being Labor Day weekend.I expected to see some people.But some other bow hunters were camped right were we had heard the bull bugle.The meadow they camped by, the elk always come down into feed.Well almost ever night.
The thing that bugs me is as you come into the area on the forest road it states "camping in designated sites only" well where they camped was a old closed logging road.Not designated
It never ceases to amaze me that people camp where the animals want to feed or water.And then they wonder "Why didn't I see anything."

 

[huntergeorge]

I agree with you that when you hike your butt off and there are other people in the area it sucks. But if those other hunters have scouted and obviously they have because they are there where the deer are right? And miles off the road? Why would they go somewhere else? Would you? obviously you have as much common courtesy as them. Am I right? you are both there and you didnt leave it for them to hunt. I would have to see your fence around the area with a no tresspass sign for me not to hunt an area with good bucks in it that I had scouted and wanted to hunt.

The truth of this is that there are other people that hunt. there are limited amounts of decent deer on general hunts and if someone is in your hunting area DEAL WITH IT. Dont cry like a junior high school girl ok?

 

[Bowtecher]

I got ask you huntergeorge

If you see some hunter in blaze orange say 400 yards away do
you hike on over to that spot if he's already set up,remember this is the area you scouted and wanted to hunt at first light?

 

[overton]

Huntergeorge

Welcome to MM. You certainly started out with a bang.


Ransom

 

[Verticalslope]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-07 AT 08:57PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-07 AT 08:53?PM (MST)

So Huntergeorge,

I agree with bowtecher, you would just move in on a hunter who was already there. When I see someone in an area I'll go else where and try one of my alternative spots. I just don't see the rationale in your comment. It sounds like to me you are offender because you don't obide by any rules. I realize it's a public area. I have for over twenty years while hunting the same area. What I see as a trend is less and less hunters in Utah, where I have grown up and lived nearly my entire life, showing some courtesy. I have hunted in Wyoming and had hunters appologize when they ran into me and asked where I was going to be hunting so they would not affect my hunt.

 

[huntergeorge]

I am not sure how long its been since you have hunted general public tag in blaze orange but when the mountains are full of 90 thousand blaze orange then you would have to be crazy to think you are going to find somewhere where someone else isnt going to be.

Look, not to be an a$$ here but the point is, you do not own the spot you are hunting, even if you were there first. Start doing that then people start camping right where you want to hunt.

Tell me how far into the woods were you? like i said, if i spent two hours hiking to hunt a spot, I think I would hunt that spot. What about you? you to bowtecher? you gonna leave after that long of a hike and give it up?


If all else fails. Work on the joints -n- stuff

 

[huntergeorge]

Did you do the same to them vertical slope? so you have no courtesy either then I assume. Did you ask where they were going or did you think you own the mountain and everyone should step aside for you?

If all else fails. Work on the joints -n- stuff

 

[AZbowhntr]

Huntergeorge, I have a question for you. Say you are hunting elk and you find a 380 bull and know where he is watering. So you decide to sit the tank and get there at 2 in the afternoon. And I come in at 5 and climb into the tree next to you. Even though I saw you. What is it that you do? Just sit there and do or say nothing? There is no law that said I can't do it. But it is unethical as can be. That is the point everyone is making. Have a plan B and a plan C. That's what preseason scouting is for.

 

[huntergeorge]

AZ bowhunter, I have a question for you. Say you are hunting elk, and you find a 420 bull and know where he is watering. So you decide to sit the tank. but when you get there someone else is already there.

I bet you are not just going to walk away. In fact I guarantee it.

If all else fails. Work on the joints -n- stuff

 

[Hornhog2]

I see your point huntergeorge, but there does have to be some simple common courtesy out there. No matter what hunt your on. Two weeks ago I was with a guy who had a good LE tag for elk. We found a giant bull and had been working on him all day. Once it got close to dark, they started to move down into some open country. We had him dead rights. As we moved in closer,I looked behind me and saw a guy bugling his guts out. He obviously saw us because he started out on a dead run trying to beat us to the big bugling bull. I couldn't believe my eyes! It turned into a foot race! Instead of pulling out when he saw there were two guys in head of him, he took off running. Needless to say, neither of us got a shot at the big bull. My point...it never pays to be an a-hole. Use some common sense and have a little courtesy to the other hunters in the field!

 

[overton]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-07 AT 07:38AM (MST)[p]>Is it just me or are
>hunters in general be coming
>less courteous. I headed
>down to me twenty year
>deer hunting spot early
>in the a.m. this
>past muzzle loader opener.
> My boy, his
>buddy and I made sure
>we slipped in quietly,
>in the dark off to
>the side of the deer.
> All this to ensure
>the deer didn't smell us
>or bust out early.
>We were in position on
>our scouted deer and hour
>and a half before sunrise.
> It was a
>long cold wait.
>At sunrise I started to see
>some deer out feeding.
>Then I observed the several
>hunters I expected to see.
> Four of them in
>groups of two moving across
>the top of the draw
>right above the feeding and
>bedding area of the deer,
> allowing their scent to
>drift down to the deer.
> I expected this and
>hoped to benefit from it.
> I was 400
>yards below them standing
>on a small ridge in
>the open. I began
>moving to where the hunters
>on the ridge could see
>me. I glassed them
>and they glassed me.
>Two of the hunters moved
>out and looked for another
>spot as you would expect
>from people who have some
>ethics. Four of
>them began heading my way.
> To my amazement,
>I was surrounded by the
>four hunters within a few
>minutes. I mean within
>archery range surrounded.
>That sat down and began
>glassing the small timber pocket
>I was already at.
>I can't figure it out.
> They didn't come
>talk to me just sat
>down and took over the
>place.
>Out of frustration I moved
>around to my two boys.
> Only to find out
>that two more hunters walked
>up to them and stated,
> ? oh, I
>was hoping to hunt this
>spot ? .
>They walked up hill a
>80 ranged yards and sat
>down where they remained the
>rest of the day.
>I guess it serves me
>right for going out on
>the opener of the muzzle
>loader hunt. I just
>figured people would have some
>common courtesy. I was
>wrong.

Verticalslope

I've been hunting deer since 1965 and can't remember something like your experience ever happening to me. I think I might have been speechless because of shock and bewilderment. Anyone who knows me would find that rare because I talk too dang much. If these other hunters were so rude in the first place an ethics discourse would have fallen on deaf ears. I guess a person can see from your experience why some hunters join private clubs and leases. I would think opening days are out from now on.


Ransom

 

[ajensen83]

Verticalslope, you make some good points but I have to chime in here for a second and it may be slightly off topic and if it is I apologize..

The four wheeler argument that keeps coming up is just crap... if you are being bothered by four wheelers YOU ARE TOO CLOSE TO THE ROADS... I keep hearing guys talk about how they hike into an area and yet there are so many four wheelers that they cant effectively hunt... the roads are designed to drive on... unless the guy is creating his own road two miles from the designated roadway, it is your expectations that are off not the four wheeler drivers..

On the hiking side, I do think what you described is unethical... it happens to everyone that you step on someones toes unintentionally, it is what you do when you realize it that makes the difference...

this last week I was on the muzzy hunt.. a friend and I found several canyons that were about a mile and a half from the roadway and we had not seen one hunter in the area all hunt... we hiked up to the top of the canyon and sat in a draw... after about five minutes a hunter walked up to us and said that he had been sitting in the draw and watched us walk up and sit down... he was worried that we didn't see him, which we didn't and was worried about crossfire... we apologized and offered to leave the area to him, he said that's ok and he would leave because he had been there for a little while... it sucked but we didnt mean it and as soon as we found out we offered to leave....

I think we get in the habit of bi*ching as well and while I agree that the guys in your post were unethical a lot of the complaining that I have heard this year have just been people who arent willing to hike or understand that people are going to drive on the roads...

its time for us all to think of other hunters and cut each other a break..

 

[Daxter]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-07 AT 02:46PM (MST)[p]
I have had several similar experiences. An Idaho hunter had his young son shoot at a deer from over 500 yards when he saw that I was making a stalk. I had spotted the buck on a ridge and ranged it at 500+, I started to stalk to where I could get a shot I was comfortable with, and heard shooting. They had been fairly close to where I was when I spotted it and when they saw I was going after it, they decided to let some lead fly. He missed, and I didn't see the buck again.

I had a funny experience while pheasant hunting in Utah. A buddy and I had spotted some roosters and were hanging around waiting for the 8 am start time. I saw some guys drive by looking at us. They pulled up the road 100 yards and stopped. They were glassing us to see where we were looking. When they figured it out, they got out and started towards the birds even though we still had 10 minutes till the start time. They buggered the birds and didn't get a shot. My friend and I were ticked, so we ran and got right next to them. A bird flushed and my friend shot it. We didn't have dogs, but they did. The dogs got all excited and started working in front of my friend and I. We shot two more birds while the dog owner was getting redder and redder yelling at his dog to come back over in front of him. I told him not to worry about it, that we didn't mind. He was pissed, and I didn't see him get any birds.

I also have screwed up a hunt or two for others. Once I backpacked into a pretty remote high country area with some friends. We arrived in the middle of the night and found a tent right where we had planned to camp. It was the only level spot for a long ways, so we set up right next to it (after talking to the guy and making sure it was okay with him, we would have gone on). There were two ways to arrive at this spot, and I guess there had been a ton of deer feeding along one of the trails, the one we hiked in on. We had scared all the deer and messed up this guys pattern. He had been there several days, and was just waiting for the opener. They guy was really nice, and I felt bad. He packed up and left the next day.

Bottom line is, now days you can almost count on other people being a factor in your public land hunting, especially during the general season. I guess we all just have to try to be courteous and patient.

Dax

Here is a labeled photo of the Idaho spot showing where I was when they shot, and the last two are the high country hunt that I messed up. Thought I ought to post a pic or two, as I haven't for a while.

 

[BLooDTRaCKeR]

Had an experience similar to some that have been mentioned. This particular experience happened on the opener of the grouse hunt here in utah. I was bow hunting for deer and had hiked in a couple of miles to my honeyhole. At first light, I spotted a nice four point 300+ yards below me. He had alerted on me so I just watched to see where he would go. He went into some pines in the direction that I wanted to head so I tried toget ahead of him before he crested the saddle. I got down there and jumped a doe. She ran off, no big deal. It wasn't even completely light yet so I waited for a minute, didn't see the big 4 point. Decided to head out to my glassing area overlooking a nice bowl tucked away out of sight. I had spotted some nice bucks down there prior to that weekend and was set on that area. I took one step out in the open and saw three bucks feeding up the hill side 200 yards away from me. The biggest being a 28" four point with good mass, and deep forks. I slowly backed up behind a pine and watched them feed up to the ridgeline and bed down. I planned my stalk out and had a good strategy to slip in close to the bigger buck. I no sooner got up to start my stalk when 3 grouse hunters with their dogs come over the ridge and start their descent towards me. I waved my arms at them to get their attention, they stopped, saw me and then just proceeded to "come on down", talking loudly and whistling at their dogs, jumping grouse and shooting like mad men within a 150 yards of me. My bucks were probably in the next county when I realized they were gone. I picked up my stuff and left the area. I had thought I was far enough in to where I wouldn't be bothered by anyone because in all the weeks before I had not even seen a single person, even on the opener of the bow hunt. Thats just how it goes some times. It's sad that people can't hunt around you when they see you down in an area they are heading towards. These grouse hunters had many options of other pines they could have hunted when they first saw me, but they decided it was worth hiking right into me just to hunt a small stand of pines before bailing off into the north facing slope where the heavier pines were. I understand that they have just as much right to hunt the area as I do and they hiked in a long ways to hunt that area, but they're hunting grouse! Grouse are everywhere up there. I heard shooting all morning and watched on several occasions through the scope kill shots on grouse. I feel the same pain others do that have idiots come into an area and "take it over". I have always been one to go else where and hunt if someone is hunting where I wanted to. No big deal. How can you feel good about yourself as a hunter when you knowingly walk up and sit down 20 yards from another hunter who was obviously watching the area first? I think some do it just to kick others with ethics out of the area. It's a cruel world no matter where you go.

 

[deathcanyon]

I have been screwed up several times by hunters and have done the same. The worst I ever screwed up was we saw some bucks as it was getting dark and took a couple of shots missing them. They was pretty far away and at the top of a hill. Well we went over to make sure we hadn't wounded them and two fellers come of the the hill madder than hell saying that they was on there for wheelers and had seen the deer go over the hill and were preparing to go after them and all of a sudden bullets started whizzing over their head. Felt pretty bad, but what does one say. Almost quit hunting thinking we could have shot someone.

S

 

[canhunter]

Just typical America. Have you ever stood in line or been at a busy location with a group of third world people or even the populated 1st world. Holy crud we don't hold a candle to a majority of the world in regards to violating peoples space. This comes from people who have never been taught respect and it will only get worse.

 

[overton]

>Just typical America. Have you
>ever stood in line or
>been at a busy location
>with a group of third
>world people or even the
>populated 1st world. Holy
>crud we don't hold a
>candle to a majority of
>the world in regards to
>violating peoples space. This
>comes from people who have
>never been taught respect and
>it will only get worse.
>

Canhunter

I'm afraid your right.

Ransom

 

[jmcenulty]

One of my favorite sayings is there is always two sides to an arguement. I think this applies here. Not to doubt what was said or pass judgement, but keep this in mind. Your focus is on the deer so who knows how long the other "hunter" was stocking the same deer or who really spotted it first. I bet for at least half the stories above there is some other hunter telling a slightly different version, only they are not the "jerk". Another thing to keep in mind is that there is different techniques for hunting. Spot and stock, still hunting, stand hunting, driving, brushing, tracking, rattling, ect.. and I bet you can find "expert" hunters that will argue for each method.

This would make a great topic. "Which method of hunting is best". Has a thread already dealt with this recently?

 

[overton]

>One of my favorite sayings is
>there is always two sides
>to an arguement. I think
>this applies here. Not to
>doubt what was said or
>pass judgement, but keep this
>in mind. Your focus is
>on the deer so who
>knows how long the other
>"hunter" was stocking the same
>deer or who really spotted
>it first. I bet for
>at least half the stories
>above there is some other
>hunter telling a slightly different
>version, only they are not
>the "jerk". Another thing to
>keep in mind is that
>there is different techniques for
>hunting. Spot and stock, still
>hunting, stand hunting, driving, brushing,
>tracking, rattling, ect.. and I
>bet you can find "expert"
>hunters that will argue for
>each method.
>
>This would make a great topic.
>"Which method of hunting is
>best". Has a thread already
>dealt with this recently?

JM

Great idea. Probably would get a lot of responses mostly good but a few that would be something along the lines of stop whining or such.


Ransom