Help an inexperienced new guy please

kybuck1

Member
Messages
49
Been looking at the forum for a few weeks now before I posted. Lots of great information here. I am in a dilemma about what to do in the future and wanted some experienced input please. I am 33 and just finished medical training and have never applied for elk tags before. Just did a colorado guided hunt and got a small 5x5 but really want to progress to some larger animals. My question is based on my history should I...
1. Start state applications to build up points?
2. Cont to save money for a good guided hunt where landowner tags are used?
3. Maybe a combination of both?

Honestly my head is spinning looking at all the different units in the states. Plus there are so many outfitters and services that may or may not be in my best interest. Anyway, just looking for some advice to plan for the future. I appreciate any and all comments.
Thanks
 
Doc., You may wish to repost this question again, about the middle of November, most of the folks are in the field hunting for the next few weeks.

You could get a wild ride, asking such a tender subject here-a-bouts. It's a right lively discussion.

DC
 
What is on your wish list to shoot?

And if you do want a guided hunt how much you willing to spend?
 
I am guessing that you did not have to carry that 5x5 out of the backcountry, or you wouldn't have called it small. I share your desire to find a better trophy, but I advise not to diminish the accomplishment of you and your guide.

Some states such as Idaho do not have bonus point systems, so you are on even ground with all other applicants and I think there are many areas that have mature bulls. Other states like Montana have weighted point systems where all applicants have a chance to draw and there are reasonably good opportunities for applicants to draw tags to hunt for mature bulls. Both of those states have many good outfitters that can put you into good elk country, with potential for mature bulls, or you can do it yourself (diy). My home state of Utah has a mixed system where half of the tags go to maximum point holders and half go into a weighted draw. Utah has some fabulous elk hunting, but your odds are pretty steep if you are just getting started now. As you probably know, some states, such as Colorado, allocate all tags for those applicants with the most points but there are many over the counter OTC units.
 
Do you need a guide? Or would you rather hunt by yourself or with friends on your own?

If you would like to hunt by yourself or with friends on your own I would do the following.

Get each states regulation and draw brochures with season dates, draw application deadlines,draw odds and units listed.
Contact each Game and Fish department and talk to some game biologists about what you are looking for. Areas they may suggest as being better than average odds of getting a mature bull.
Sites like this also will give you an idea where some bulls are taken that may interest you.

On draw areas put in for the unit every year as you research the area more and more. Try and make a trip or two to the area before your hunt and look at Google Earth or other topo sites finding areas where most will not make an effort to hunt.
Talk to some locals if possible on any tips they may have, even though a few may steer you in the wrong direction you may still get a nugget of information from a good ole boy.

Apply in states and areas such as Utah, Arizona or New Mexico and know you will have a most likely long wait before you draw a tag.

To hunt more frequently put in for Colorado and apply for a draw unit and if unsuccesful you can still choose to hunt 2nd or 3rd season over the counter or archery every year.
Research areas where bulls have a chance to grow in these every year units in Colorado and then hunt the same unit and area each year. This improves your odds as you get to know the animals and layout of the land more and more.

States like Wyoming, Montana and Idaho also have decent odds and you could very well draw there every other year depending on the units you put in for and the odds.

The more effort that is put into learning the areas you research and are interested in hunting the better your odds of success.
Before your hunts get in the best shape you can.

Best of luck and good hunting.
Jerry
 
If you've got money to regularly go on guided / outfitted hunts, that may be your best option. If you're interested in building bonus points I'd recommend setting some short term goals in states where you could reasonably get decent tags every few years (Wyoming, Colorado, Idaho) and some long term goals in states with tougher draw odds, but more potential for bigger bulls (Utah, Arizona, Nevada).

This can be a headache keeping track of all the applications and deadlines, but there are a lot of resources that can help you figure it all out. Eastmans MRS usually has pretty good information. And there are several places that for a fee will handle all of your applications for you.

In theory, if you can get it all organized and keep building points, you'll be hunting elk somewhere every fall. This will allow you to become more familiar with the animal, calling, different hunting techniques, etc. Then by the time you've got enough points to draw some of the better quality units, you'll be better able to take advantage of those opportunities.
 
Well, I hate just throwing out numbers/scores but I was hoping to have a chance at a 320-better bull.
The 5x5 I got this year was a nice trophy that I was very proud of, however I saw 5 bulls taken in a matter of 3 days and they were all the same size. Tons of elk there, but obviously way over hunted. But a great hunt never the less.
I would have a rather hard time spending 10,000 on an elk hunt at this or a near point in the future, got to pay back some debt for a while. ; )
I'm not looking to get a BC bull every year, maybe have a chance or two in my lifetime. Really I would really like to just have an opportunity to harvest a 320 or better bull every year or two.
Thanks for the replies so far everyone.
 
If you hunt Colorado every year and learn an area even if it is overly hunted decent bulls are still possible.
Learn the terrain and the elk that call it home and you can beat the odds.
Here are a few bulls taken the past five years on highly hunted OTC units by myself...No bragging just an example of what can be done.
Not monsters, but bulls most would be tickled with especially in Colorado.
No guides, private land or crazy expenses.
All it takes is research time and effort.
I know many others that do even better even though it is not the norm unless they put out the effort.
Best,
Jerry

30432009_colorado_bull_eastmans3.jpg


27282011_elk13.jpg


9917dscn0520.jpg


81712013colorado_bull24.jpg
 
Join the huntin fool. It's the easiest way to get your head wrapped around State draws.

You should definitely start getting points in your home State.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-13 AT 10:36AM (MST)[p]>I'm not looking to get a
>BC bull every year, maybe
>have a chance or two
>in my lifetime. Really
>I would really like to
>just have an opportunity to
>harvest a 320 or better
>bull every year or two.
>
>Thanks for the replies so far
>everyone.

That's a very tall order right there. Especially if you aren't looking at spending $10,000 to go guided. Most guys that are getting opportunities at a 320 or better bull every year or two are putting in a LOT of time scouting and hunting, or paying the $ and hiring a guide or hunting private land. There are a few guys that do pull it off every year DIY on public land, but those guys are studs and probably spend 30+ days in the field each year on average I would bet.

I have a good friend that has hunted 20+ years in Wyoming and still has yet to get his first 320+ bull on the ground. He shot a 315 a couple years back and was very happy with it and ended up getting it mounted.

My first bull over 300" ended up on the wall because at the time I wasn't sure if I would ever shoot a bigger bull in my life or not.

The pictures posted up here on this forum are not generally indicative of the average bull that you could expect to shoot DIY on public land on a routine basis. The bulls that TheKnack posted are all really nice bulls IMO, but I'm not sure that any of them stretch to 320".

So, a long winded way to say that you may have unrealistic expectations. There are not 320" bulls around every corner in very many places. For sure not in any areas that you can hunt every year or two. Your best bet is to apply in Utah, Arizona, Nevada, Wyoming, etc. and start building points. Maybe every 10 years or so in each of those states you might have a chance to cash in some points and hunt a unit that will give you a legitimate shot at a 320"+ bull. If you start applying now maybe you won't be too old to DIY it when you draw the tags. If you apply in enough states maybe you can do one of those hunts every 5 or 6 years.

In the meantime you might want to start lowering your expectations a little an tying for a 280 - 300" nice 6x6 bull in some states like Montana, Wyoming, Idaho and even Colorado.

My 2 cents. Nathan
 
>If you hunt Colorado every year
>and learn an area even
>if it is overly hunted
>decent bulls are still possible.
>
>Learn the terrain and the elk
>that call it home and
>you can beat the odds.
>
>Here are a few bulls taken
>the past five years on
>highly hunted OTC units by
>myself...No bragging just an example
>of what can be done.
>
>Not monsters, but bulls most would
>be tickled with especially in
>Colorado.
>No guides, private land or crazy
>expenses.
>All it takes is research time
>and effort.
>I know many others that do
>even better even though it
>is not the norm unless
>they put out the effort.
>
>Best,
>Jerry
>
>
30432009_colorado_bull_eastmans3.jpg

>
>
27282011_elk13.jpg

>
>
9917dscn0520.jpg

>
>
81712013colorado_bull24.jpg



Jerry,
you are certainly the exception to the rule and should be proud of your accomplishments. Excellent bulls!

To the OP,
Why the hang-up on 320"? Most guys don't even know what a true 320" bull looks like! They call any good 6x6 a 320 when in fact they probably wouldn't break 300!

If you want to hunt that caliber of elk, every year or two, you'll need to pay or pay. Pay with pain, time, effort, research, applications etc or pay an outfitter/landowner. Either way will work so just decide what works for you.

Most successful guys, like Jerry, have spent a lifetime+ of gaining knowledge and skill. It's a great way to do it and by far my favorite but it's not the only way... and might not be for you.

Don't get hung up on "the hunting spot" either. I'll bet lots of other hunters were hunting the unit with Jerry. Why do you suppose they didn't have the same success? (you know the answer)

Just figure out what turns your crank and go for it!

Zeke
 
Thanks again everyone!
Yea, that's why I hate putting a number on antler size. I would be very happy to harvest any of those in the pics----and actually that is what I would like to do every couple years. Have a chance to take an animal similar to those.
My dilemma is landowner tags vs preference points/units/states...in regards to planning some hunting adventures for the future.
I signed up for the hunting fool and hope that maybe that will give me some more insight and guidance as well.
I do appreciate all the guidance, and coming from a very new guy to all this every bit of info is helpful.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-13 AT 06:53PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-13 AT 06:41?PM (MST)

Good posts with thoughtful suggestions.

Apparently, you have some ability to hire an outfitter or that wouldn't be one of your options, so I would suggest you do some of both your options.

Such as: applying for elk hunts on known, limited entry elk units, if you don't know which units have fair numbers of 320 or larger numbers of bulls in a State, someone here on MM will most likely help you pick two or three units to apply for. As stated, some States like Idaho are just an open draw, equal chance for any out of State applicant. It's more expensive to apply in Idaho because you need to buy an out of State license first, but.........every opportunity has it's price. Other States are cheaper to apply for a preference point or a tag but they are more limited in there drawing odds. Each has it's merits and aw sh!ts

If you pick two or three good elk States and start putting in now, by the time your fifty you'll have most likely drawn three to five elk hunts (remember your not applying for the best best units, just units that have good numbers of 300/320 type bulls so, the odds aren't as bad on these "secondary units". Your investment will be in the neighborhood of $300 to $500 a year for the "preference points game" for thirty years. That equates to, give or take, $12,000/$15,000 for maybe three to five hunts. You could spend over $1500.00 a year of you let yourself get carried away, there no need, unless you want bigger bulls or more hunts.

While your waiting for lady luck to draw you a bull tag on a limited entry unit, in the mean time you could purchase elk tags, in some States, with outfitters, for $5000/$6000. There won't be guaranteed 320 bull hunts but, if you do a lot of checking with sportsmen, here on MM and else where, you'll find outfitters that can, on some years, find you a bull of the size you're looking for. If you find a good outfitter, who's clients are, (while your in camp) bring in some of the kinds of bulls your after, stay with him, if he knows he can count on your coming ever two or three years, human nature says he'll likely work a little harder to see that your loyalty is rewarded.............. provided of course that those kinds of elk are in fact in the area's he's hunting.

If you get in the preference point pool process, it does get frustrating but, at your age it will eventually get you good tags. HOWEVER, just because you draw a good tag, on a good limited entry unit, it won't be like shooting a fish in a barrel. Most of these non-high fence hunts are anything but easy. Yes, sometimes elk wander into a meadow your walking by but there are still hunts you'd better be prepared to strap your boots on, head out across a half dozen ridges............. where you all ready know there are elk, and then be prepared to pack 450 pounds of wet soggy meat and a large set of antlers out of some deadfall hell hole, on your back.

Another problem that guys have that drawn these limited entry tags face is they have never seen the unit before they come to hunt it. Finding good bulls, hell, finding any elk, on most of these mountains is not a sure thing. Elk are generally in the same places every year but they are not prolific across any unit and knowing which forty acres they're in, out of 2,000,000 acres, takes a whole lot of luck or a whole lot of time and expense.

I don't want to discourage you, just prepare you for reality. I live near some of the best and maybe the easiest big bull elk hunting units in the State of Utah and I've seen many, many good hunters draw these units down here and go home without the kind of hunt they anticipated. In plan words, it's not easy Now, I would never say guys don't come out DYI and kill huge bulls, lots bigger than 320s but............, well, it happens but it's no sure thing.

Fact is, if you're sure a 320 type bull is what you'd like to hunt and kill every two or three years, I'd go the route of a well vetted outfitter, then stay with him/her. Personally, I've never done that but, I've never needed a bull the size your after to be satisfied and of course I've never killed a 320 bull. I have tried.......just haven't got it done!

There are a lot of other folks that read and share info on MM, keep asking, (more guys well comment if you keep you post active) giving as much info about your wants and eventually you'll sort out what's best for your circumstance. We each have our own path to follow, yours well be just as unique are the rest of ours.

There are a ranches in Utah that run a program called "CWMU" you may find interesting.

http://wildlife.utah.gov/about-the-cwmu-program.html

There CWMUs are not all created equal, there are certainly good ons and a bunch maybe not so good, prices vary, quality varies, check, check, check, check with other hunters that use them before you ever go with one, but the good ones provide better than average animals and a good hunting experience.

Best regards in your hunting future.

DC
 

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