Poaching or Not Poaching?

WillardHunter · Oct 17, 2013

If you shoot and wound an animal but it does not die and you harvest or "take" another animal are you breaking the law. I don't want "IMO" answers those are ethic answers .... I want law. What is the definition of "take" an animal? That is the verbiage in the Utah Big Game rules and regs. It does NOT say "harvest".... From my studies... I have mixed opinions based on situations, but I want to know the law.

ElkManDan · Oct 17, 2013

No, you are not breaking the law. In fact Utah big game harvest surveys do ask if you did wound any animals and how many. It is a personal decision to continue hunting or not if you wound and animal and are not able to recover it.

If you wound and animal and then harvest another only to find the other animal later it is illegal to take any part of the first animal.

WillardHunter · Oct 17, 2013

LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-13 AT 08:19PM (MST)[p]So if I were to shoot an Elk look for it,say three days, without finding it. "Take" another elk after that. I have not broken any laws. I might feel sick not knowing what happened to the first. But no laws have been broken. Right?

So,what if say, a week later I see a post on MM showing the possible elk dead. Am I breaking any laws inquiring if it was the first elk I think I shot?

I know by law I can not get the rack but at least there would be closure. Especially if in the back of my head I thought the first Bull may have driven off in a truck with no one holding a tag.

elkassassin · Oct 17, 2013

>LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-13
>AT 08:19?PM (MST)
>
>So if I were to shoot
>an Elk look for it,say
>three days, without finding it.
>"Take" another elk after that.
>I have not broken any
>laws. I might feel sick
>not knowing what happened to
>the first. But no laws
>have been broken. Right?
>
>So,what if say, a week later
>I see a post on
>MM showing the possible elk
>dead. Am I breaking any
>laws inquiring if it was
>the first elk I think
>I shot?
>
> I know by law I
>can not get the rack
>but at least there would
>be closure. Especially if in
>the back of my head
>I thought the first Bull
>may have driven off in
>a truck with no one
>holding a tag.

Did this happen to you on the Wasatch near Strawberry?

I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

WillardHunter · Oct 17, 2013

LMAO ... Not me ....this was just a hypothetical situation I have been reading .... I mean thinking about...

Silentstalker · Oct 17, 2013

I know of 9 different guys from the muzzy and rifle LE elk hunts that shot and wounded bulls. 6 were gut shot the other three unknown but they left blood. All 9 of those guys shot other bulls. 2 of them shot bulls the same day.

Frustrating, yes. Tough on the herd, yes. Illegal, no.

Unfortunately in the system that takes up to 20 years to draw, and in a target rich environment, guys keep shooting.

Every situation is unique. Not every bull hit dies. Many continue rutting etc. i think its a very personal and tough decision.

elkassassin · Oct 17, 2013

What ss said!

Sad sometimes but True!

This Wounding BS must Stop!

I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

Catchindeers · Oct 18, 2013

Another thread on this?? Man I just want to read a good elk hunting story! Let's move on

Foreman4x4 · Oct 18, 2013

>I know of 9 different guys
>from the muzzy and rifle
>LE elk hunts that shot
>and wounded bulls. 6
>were gut shot the other
>three unknown but they left
>blood. All 9 of
>those guys shot other bulls.
> 2 of them shot
>bulls the same day.
>
>Frustrating, yes. Tough on the
>herd, yes. Illegal, no.
>
>
>Unfortunately in the system that takes
>up to 20 years to
>draw, and in a target
>rich environment, guys keep shooting.
>
>
>Every situation is unique. Not
>every bull hit dies.
>Many continue rutting etc.
>i think its a very
>personal and tough decision.

How many of those were scheming a way to try and take a second bull home? That's the game changer.

bowhunt · Oct 18, 2013

WOW, Silent!
That is crazy, 9 guys wounded bulls with Guns, and did not recover them.
That is sad!
But you are correct no law broken.

Silentstalker · Oct 18, 2013

Yeah its been a weird year for elk. I know these guys and they were not trying to bring home two elk. A couple of them are novice hunters and a few others just had crap luck. Still its tough on the resource when you kill 18 bulls to fill 9 tags.

WillardHunter · Oct 18, 2013

+1 to SS.... Over the last five years I have heard of numerous hunters who have wounded at least one elk and have taken another home. Are they trying to get two elk? No. The majority of hunters that do this are not "scheaming a way to try and get two bulls". They know in the current system it is most likely the last chance they'll get to shot a 300+ bull in their life.

I know a guy in 2009 that shot at 3 bulls wounding at least two of them. He never took one home, tag soup, to him. C He was 55 at the time and it took him 16 yrs to draw... Do the math... 5 yr waiting + point creep + 16 yrs .... How many 80 yr old hunters do you know?

Is it BS? Yes it is!!! Especially when the last bull he hit was 750 yrds away and he knew his 300 ultra could "kill" at that distance.... He had never taken a shot past 500 yrds in his life.

Can you fault the hunter or the system? He did not break any laws. I think the main difference between my example and Tye is the emotional difference. At least Tye still wants closure. Many hunters don't care as long as they get an elk home.

pookiebar · Oct 18, 2013

So Willard are you really Tye in different clothing??

shotgun1 · Oct 18, 2013

>So Willard are you really Tye
>in different clothing??

I would say No. Willards grammar is much better.

eelgrass · Oct 18, 2013

A friend of mine shot at a buck and we looked for the rest of the day but couldn't find it. No blood or nothing. He swore he made a good shot. He went on to kill another buck. Two weeks later I accidentally found the first buck he shot. It was dead. I cut the antlers off and gave them to him. He tried to get me to take them but I said no thanks. So he has one extra set of antlers that he shouldn't have.

He has to live with that the rest of his life and someday meet his maker.

Go out and shoot an extra coyote, and when you see a doe and fawn in the road slow down so you don't run over them, and in the end you should be fine.

Eel

nickman · Oct 20, 2013

I believe that game departments everywhere, factor in "multiple kills" when establishing tag allotments and doing other basic numbers reports.

This situation occurs often and simply can't ALWAYS be helped/controlled/enforced.

Actually had a hunter hit an elk today, that required 2 more solid hits to put down. Fortunately, we had some pretty open ground. In deep timber, the back up shots may have been impossible.

If a serious effort is made to find the wounded animal, but is unsuccessful, there is no law, that I am aware of, that states you may not shoot another. The "ethics and morals" police will just have to find another thread.

"If you get upset or offended by ANY website forum
post.....especially mine, you need serious
intervention!"

lang · Oct 20, 2013

Alaska is the only state I know of that if you draw blood that's your animal. Nuge got zinged for it a few years ago on a bear hunt that he just wasn't aware of the law and took a bear after wounding a different animal.

Broadside_Shot · Oct 21, 2013

I have been really surprised at the number of muzzy hits this year and not finding their animal. I think some people put a muzzy in their hand and just because it feels like a rifle they think that it must handle like a rifle.

Muzzy has been by far the most wounding I have heard about this year. Sad but not illegal to take 300 yard shots with a muzzy.

I think if crossbows become legal people will start to think because it feels like a rifle it must handle like one and 150 yard shots will be the norm.

But it's not Poaching.

O_S_O_K · Oct 23, 2013

I have been a part of, and know a few people, that have participated in guided hunts.

Almost every one of those guides enforce a rule of "draw blood, hunt over".

Why do you suppose that is?

I agree, tough choice and no two scenarios are ever the same.

I personally would give it every effort to find the animal. If I felt it was a lethal hit I would be done. If I felt the animal would truly survive then I might keep hunting.

My $0.02

"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

nripepi · Oct 24, 2013

I watched a guy once walk up a drainage and shoot and hit (mortally I think) 3 Mule Deer bucks, one after another..boom boom boom. He actually thought he was shooting at the same buck each time, he was dead serious when I confronted him. I told him he shot 3 separate bucks and he thought I was totally off my rocker! I tracked the biggest of the three, but couldn't seal the deal before it got dark and I was miles and miles from a road. Poor deer, happy yotes I guess.

I wonder how many deer and elk are wounded that we don't even know about, let a lone the ones we know we wound. I would like to see some law that if you wound an animal, you can't shoot another for 24-48 hours or something like that. Let you think about it some, some time to think about the ethical issues involved....and sometime to actually look longer for your wounded animal. I have no problem with blood and your done either. Both would be very difficult to enforce though. Maybe we should educate people on this more when they do their hunter training courses...