ANYBODY NOTICE???

[elkassassin]

Even though there were many Nice Bulls & Bucks Taken again this year Here in Utah!

There sure wasn't as many Big/Trophy Animals Taken in LE Units as Previous years!

Thanks to all involved for the New Age Objectives!

No Doubt, We've got a Trend of more Hunters becoming more tight Lipped with Success Stories and Pics also!

But the Proof Ain't hard to See/Figure out!

Just a few years back there were numerous 380" Bulls Posted here!

Maybe We could Hunt some of these LE Units just a little Harder like what's went on in the Wasatch Unit this year,What a SlaughterHouse!

What a PISS POOR way to manage what was one of the Best/Biggest LE Elk Unit/Herd anywhere!

ANYBODY Got the Total number of Elk Tags issued for the Wasatch Unit in 2013?

I'm talking TOTAL Numbers:

Bull Tags!

Spike Tags!

Cow Tags!

Money Tags!

Conservation Tags!

Auction Tags!

Archery Tags!

Muzz Tags!

Rifle Tags!

Late Rifle Tags!

EXPO Tags!

No,I don't Hunt/try and Draw the Unit!

Just Sad to see/know what the Unit is about to become with todays Management!






















I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

 

[walleye1121]

People are certainly more tight lipped.

I helped with an archery tag on the Henry Mts this year and I know of many good bucks killed down there. But, I'm pretty certain the only bucks posted on here from that unit were a management buck and the sportsmans tag. I don't recall seeing any bucks off of the Paunsagaunt.

I hunted the muzzleloader elk hunt on the Wasatch and have for years. There are problems brewing on that unit just like you have been predicting. They have killed too many cows and the difference over the last two seasons is more than apparent, it is alarming. I hunt an area I know very well and I can always turn up elk, including big herds in early November during the muzzleloader. Not this year. The big herd this year was 50 elk with three spikes remaining. There were a few other small bands very scattered.

I had a cow tag and chose not to kill one.

 

[goofyelk]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-13 AT 09:04AM (MST)[p]I'VE NOTICED !!!!

Cow permits 4000+ draw permits, BUT then lets add UNLIMITED
antler-less control permits on 2/3 of the unit !!!!

I stated pounding this issue last year on the UWN----
A certain group of idiots over there dont GET IT!!!!
http://utahwildlife.net/forum/12-big-game/37096-wasatch-elk-too-many-cow-permits.html

As for 2014 LE Wasatch bull elk permits:
Archery- 189
Early rifle- 190
Late rifle- 107
Muzzle loader- 126
Premium- 20

Thats 632 public LE bull draw permits, Heres a link to 2014 permits:
http://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/biggame/pdf/2013_le_elk_permits.pdf

Here' the conservation permit 2013 list:
http://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/biggame/pdf/2013_conservation_permits.pdf

Heres a link to a thread currantly going on over on the UWN,
A group over there claiming " all is well on the Wasatch " ..
http://utahwildlife.net/forum/12-big-game/64290-wasatch-late-elk-slaughter.html

^^^^ could use some help with this one^^^^^
I know most of the guys on MM know whats REALLY going down!!!!!

EDIT: spelling

 

[Vanilla]

While you may very well be right about the Wasatch unit inparticular, I don't think it's safe to assume less big bulls are being shot state wide than before because there are less pictures posted on here. Not very scientific, I'd say.

First, less than 5% of Utah hunters probably have ever been on these forums. And for those that do, the drama on these Internet forums has increased significantly owner the last few years. It seems that every time a Mossback bull is posted we get a 75 reply thread from the same jack wagons about this, that and the other. Whether you like the practices of the outfitter or not doesn't need to be re-hashed every time they put a client on a big one. Just enjoy the animals. Half of the other DIY hunters get criticized for how the photo was taken, for taking off their orange in the pic, get accused of poaching the animal, or some other worthless drama from the picture police.

I got a ton of good info from people here and on UWN for my Pauns rifle tag last year. I didn't want to post the story here, but shared it privately with those that helped out through PM's. After a couple months I was talked into sharing it on the forums, but didn't want to for the reasons stated above. The drama has go. Good people, stories, and pictures are being driven away by it.

 

[carbonnation]

Gotta toss in an amen to that Vanilla. ..... And am I the only one who does not like the HAC? I think it has taken a lot of stories away from the other forums. Stories like the one posted a few years back by CALELKNUT (I think) when he drew the Monroe Archery elk tag just don't happen any more.

I also think that more tags have diluted the big bull pools. There are still some really good bulls killed, but there are not big bulls like there were from 2000 - 2007. Glory days are fading fast.

 

[horndawg]

With out a doubt the Avintaquin side of the unit is in alot of trouble. I have hunted this area my entire life and the last 3 years it has become a sad sight. There is still some bulls left on the mountain but finding a cow is almost impossible. It amazes me how the the ranchers get to run cows all year on the public side of the mountain but yet if you look across the road where the ranchers own the land and run a CWMU you don't see one of their cows over there.

 

[jims]

Curious if the age class objectives and teeth age status has changed in the past 5 to 10 years in most LE units? The last time I checked it takes quite a few years for a bull to age to 330, 340, and especially 370+!

 

[elkassassin]

jims!

They have changed & that's why We are starting to see change!

It'll get worse!











I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

 

[wstrntines]

I don't think it's completely tight lipped hunting forums are slowly dying Facebook and instagram is where everybody posts now it gets a ton more exposure for hunters and hunting businesses they are plum full of monster bucks and bulls from Utah from this year.

 

[HorseCreek]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-13 AT 07:20PM (MST)[p]If you didn't see or hear about a sh!t ton of big bulls you need to get off MM and out and about a bit more. I saw pics of more 380+ bulls this year than in a long time. The pics and stories are out there...just not on MM anymore.


Traditional >>>------->

 

[Cam@strawberry]

I'd be curious to know if guys can post up specific numbers from years of counting....or are they like the typical moron that pulls up their cut rate bushnell and calls every herd they see 30+....hard numbers are hard to come by...

that being said, in the last 3 years we have seen a 50-75% decrease in nursery cow #'s in the strawberry valley. herds that historically were 150-200 strong are now 50-100 and that's a stretch.

If you want specifics, this year I came up with 67 head in the coop creek nursery compared to 98 the year before and 5 yrs back the herd was 213 as best we could count.....its difficult to keep track of the elk when there are that many.....

French hollow/broad hollow has declined from 130-150 5 years ago to 40 this year and that's probably double counting a few....

Willow creek all I could turn up this year was 55-65 head, one herd of 30 and a smattering of smaller 5-15 head spread throughout.....

Currant creek had 40-50 head hunting the late hunt these had come off of Little Red Creek saw 5 head on the public side....

Cascade had 50 head or so, didn't spend much time there but close friends did and that's all they could turn up on public and private....

YOU GENTS DO THE MATH ON THOSE AND SEE IF NUMBERS LIKE THAT EVEN COME CLOSE TO 7700.....THATS AROUND A 1/3 OF THE ENTIRE UNIT....

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters

 

[goofyelk]

I can vouch for the Waters, 1st-6th, and Tie fork....

2008 just in 4th and 5th there was 35-40 bulls, 300+ cows.
NOW, that number has dropped around 85% .......

Same thing in Tie fork, Once AWESOME for BIG bulls...
Was a great place during the rutt and winter ground for elk.
1998 through about 2010....still a hand full..but 90% reduced.

Theres a late season Diamond fork cow hunt coming up,
Wouldn't be surprised to see a success number under 10%...
That pretty much will tell the story!

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-30-13 AT 03:23AM (MST)[p]I spent a few days this fall in some of the old places my Dad and I used to hang out and see bulls. Just hanging out and on solo hikes remembering the good times. I consider myself very fortunate to have been able to watch that herd grow from its infancy to what it was 8 or 9 years ago. I took my first branch antlered bull off the open unit when you could hunt all day and consider yourself extremely lucky if you saw a cow. My bull was a 4x4 and as I pulled into Heber I literally stopped traffic. As far as numbers go, it still holds a very solid number of elk. As far as trophy quality goes, there are not the number of 350+ bulls wandering around the unit that there was when I had a tag in 2006. I saw a fair number of bulls in the 330" range and an even bigger number of sub 300" bulls running around. What I didn't see were a lot of spikes. I've always said that you can't widdle away at both ends of the stick and maintain quality. But then again, quality is left up to the guy with the tag in his pocket. I will draw the Wasatch again and when I do, Dad will be watching over my shoulder as I, more than likely, take a very respectable 300" bull with my bow. That to me will be about as high quality of a hunt as I can ever expect.


It's always an adventure!!!

 

[elkassassin]

AWLB know's what's goin down!

Sure wish He was running the DWR!

I turned a 300" PISSCUTTER Bull loose on the General Rifle Elk Hunt this year!

I sure the Hell Ain't Wasting 18 Points on a DINK/PISSCUTTER!

Or will I?

I might Waste them!

But it won't be by Notching a Tag for a DINK Bull!

I suppose I'll be no different than several of my Friends that have Hunted LE Bulls the last few years,several of them have Helped other Hunters Take Great Bulls time & time again over the years & when their Turn rolled around they ended up Proudly Eating a 10 to 20 Year Tag due to it being basically a once in a lifetime Tag/Opportunity & they Held out for a 330"+ Bull!

Sad to see the Wasatch SMACKED like they've SMACKED it the last couple years!

If AWLB Ain't seeing the Spikes or Big Bulls,they ain't there,He's Damn sure a Great Hunter & knows his Stuff!

I Guess the DWR has never learned that it takes a lot of Small Bulls to eventually Have a Few Big Bulls?

Shootin the Breeding Stock & What could be Future Big Bulls is a GAWD-DAMNED JOKE!















I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

 

[wileywapati]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-13 AT 10:12PM (MST)[p]If ya want the truth not just CAT fantasy
It's all there in the last elk plan.

Fact is the age objective went UP in the
Last elk plan. What you see now is the age
Class coming DOWN to the mandated objective.

The permits will start drying up. BUT like I've
Always told your goofy ass CAT, you can only
Stockpile so many bulls, we are at that point now
And that's why herd numbers are coming down.

Lumpy will have you believe that just like buck
Mule deer, bull elk also give birth.

Think I started telling you this about 10 years ago
CAT. Right??

Ya can't have it both ways CAT.

It's called fecundity, acquaint yourself with
The theory.





"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012

 

[elkassassin]

JUDAS!

wiley CHIMES!

Let me Clue you in a little ww!

Seen the same kinda BS Management tried on a few other LE Units!

One Unit is JUNK,has been JUNK for years,gonna stay JUNK without some serious changes!

Couple others have slowly(And I mean Slowly!)came back a little!

Sure as Hell not at the Pace as they were destroyed!

Age Objectives went up?

Well You sure the HELL didn't wanna see them go lower did you?

And ww?

Tell me again the Wasatch Ain't in Trouble?

A couple more years of BS Management on the Wasatch you're gonna see major change you ain't gonna like!
















I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

 

[wileywapati]

Don't pass the buck CAT!!

This is THE plan all of the inch managers wanted.
Gotta keep wealth tag prices high, and everyone
That waits 20 years to draw is entitled to a 400"
Bull they can shoot from the truck.

This is every bit your management plan come
Home to roost.





"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012

 

[elkassassin]

> Don't pass the buck
>CAT!!
>
>This is THE plan all of
>the inch managers wanted.
>Gotta keep wealth tag prices high,
>and everyone
>That waits 20 years to draw
>is entitled to a 400"
>
>Bull they can shoot from the
>truck.
>
>This is every bit your management
>plan come
>Home to roost.
>
>
>
>
>
>"The future is large scale auction
>tags.
>The majority of the tags should
>go up
>for auction anually. It MIGHT even
>be
>good to allow second sales of
>auction
>tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
>
>and then re-selling them to the
>public."
>TRISTATE 8/17/2012

GOOD GAWD ww!

You mean I only have 2 more years to wait to get that Big Bull?

When I turn 40 I'm becoming a Road Hunter!

So it will have to be out the Truck Window!

This is My Management?

4-5 Year old Age Objectives? BULLSSHITT!

4,000 Cow Tags on the Wasatch?BULLSSHITT!

Who know's how GAWD Damned many Spike Tags!

100 Late Big Bull Tags?JFP!

Killing Calves was bad enough wiley!

Then We Kill the Cows too!

They are Destroying what once was a Damn Good Unit!

I Don't think any of this BULLSSHITT was my Management!

JUDAS!

F'N!

PRIEST!















I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

 

[wileywapati]

I think I'm cashing the points in on this unit next year.

I'll be calling.





"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012

 

[elkassassin]

You'd Best Cash em in Quick ww!


Don't worry though!

No matter how bad the Unit is F'D up you should be able to get a PISSCUTTER Bull!

Does 8-10 of your Points for a DINK Bull sound Good ww?

I'm still waitin for you & a few others ww to get your own LE Units started?

I've been waitin for years though!

What's up with that?

You could Hunt them as you Please!

Manage them as you Please!

Hunt them every year as you Please!

You could issue everybody in the State 2 Bull Tags & 3 Cow Tags each!

GAWD what a Hunt/Unit that would be!

We shoulda Cashed out 6 to 8 years ago ww!

But here I sit with 18 Points that soon won't be worth the paper they're wrote on!

I fought against the TARDville Points system,but nobody would listen & the DWR brainwashed everybody with how good of a system it would be!

I'll wait my turn!

Just wondering what the LE Elk Units will be like when that rolls around?

They're getting better,Right?
















I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

 

[8mmMag]

By the powers that be at the Utah DWR and those who influence them,.....the WASATCH L.E. Elk Unit, and the Manti, was sacraficed to issue alot of tags out to apease people. Just so other Elk L.E. Units like, Monroe, Boulder, San Juan, South West Desert. Pahvant, Beaver could have their Harvest age class raised to 7-8 years managed. This plan = more tags on the Wasatch, and Manti .....much fewer tags being issued on all others. This plan will help certain individuals get the highest possible Bid $$$ for auction tags, at Hunting Shows and Banquets!!

 

[elkassassin]

>By the powers that be at
>the Utah DWR and those
>who influence them,.....the WASATCH L.E.
>Elk Unit, and the Manti,
>was sacraficed to issue alot
>of tags out to apease
>people. Just so other Elk
>L.E. Units like, Monroe, Boulder,
>San Juan, South West Desert.
>Pahvant, Beaver could have their
>Harvest age class raised to
>7-8 years managed. This plan
>= more tags on the
>Wasatch, and Manti .....much fewer
>tags being issued on all
>others. This plan will help
>certain individuals get the highest
>possible Bid $$$ for auction
>tags, at Hunting Shows and
>Banquets!!


Well!

If that's the case?

I Hope they issue 200,000 LE Permits on the Wasatch from now on!

I'm sure there's at least 500,000 Big Bulls left on the Wasatch!

Draw Your Wasatch Tags Now Boys!
















I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

8mm is spot on with that. The Wasatch and the Manti have become the "oportunity" units, or as I call them, the sacrificial lambs. It's very evident if you've spent time on these units during the hunt. It's very difficult to find a place to camp or hunt that doesn't already have Trophy Rock and tree stands on every water hole in sight. I'm not saying that's good or bad. Everybody has their own oppinion but my theory is that these units were close to major populations and therefor they are the ones that people will apply for just to hunt more often because of the access. Look at the Nebo unit. I live in this unit. We used to see herds of elk and deer that winter down in our back yards. You would be hard pressed to see any now and there's not that many wintering places for them to go here. This unit is all but destroyed for elk AND deer. There are still some bucks and bulls on there but the quality (size) and numbers of these animals has been reduced dramatically. They gave out tags for this unit like they wanted to get rid of them. One of the DWR's success stories right there.


It's always an adventure!!!

 

[wileywapati]

How many 7 - 9 year old units do we need ??





"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012

 

[elkassassin]

ww?

How many Units do we need f'd Up?












I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

 

[nebo12000]

One of the problems on the Wasatch is the number of animals on the unit is over the population objective. That being said -- The DWR folks have to count the animals on the private ground as well as the public ground. The number of animals on the private- non-huntable ground is high. In order for the DWR to keep the population at the legislative mandate number they end up harvesting many more animals on the public grounds. The population is thriving on private grounds. So basically, hunters on the unit are really only hunting about 70-80% of the elk on the unit(my best guess). They are doing what they can to get some of the private lands open, but its not an easy thing to do. If you want to see better hunting and maybe more big bulls on the unit, the private land elk numbers have to be reduced and/or pushed out onto the public land again. Elk quickly realize where there is less predator pressure and they will stay there until they are moved by hunter pressure. Its not only/always about the $$$ when the DWR make permit number proposals.
How many of you have been to a RAC meeting and are willing to step up to the mike and ask these same questions ? You may also get information from the discussions that will help you understand the rationale behind permit numbers. I certainly do not always agree and there are many times after hearing from hunters, try to change the permit numbers the DWR wants. The more that show up and voice their concerns, the better the outcome for hunters in the long run. Usually the permit recommendations will be brought before the RACs in April. If you want a change on a particular unit- be there and voice your reasons. If you can convince the majority of the RAC members, you will get their support and vote. In my experience with the RACs and Wildlife Board-- there has not been a Wildlife Board that listens to the RACs more and follows their recommendations than the one that is currently in place. The RAC members have to have your input, they just don't know the situations and conditions that exist on every unit in their region. They get plenty of info from the DWR game managers and special interest groups but - They rely on information from the common sportsman who really know whats on the "ground". Be there and do your part to make hunting in our state the best it possibly can be.

 

[Cam@strawberry]

Nebo, that argument isn't gonna fly anymore. Where are the elk in the heber valley? Less than 200 have come off of 3c's, little pole, the church property, and wolf Creek ranches. Property owners in hobble creek aren't seeing them, willow creek hasn't produced much of a migration. Either there are 5000 head on tabby mountain alone or they just aren't there.

Think about that for a second there would have to be 40 FREAKING FOUR ZERO!! herds of 200 to get to just above population estimates. Every drainage would have to hold multiple herds that large....and you have guys saying they can't find and elk??? Think about it

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters

 

[elkassassin]

Well Nebo!

Shootin a Herd to Sshhitt Ain't gonna cut it!

What a Zoo out there this year!

Oh,Lets shoot the Breedin Stock Too!

If it moves,shoot it!












I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

 

[elkassassin]

Yup!

Looks like Beavis & the Berry Boys noticed!

They noticed the BS Long before now though!












I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

 

[nebo12000]

Why not talk to the 2 reps on the Central Region RAC that live in the Heber Valley. Get them on your side. Writing on MM isn't going to get the results you want. If you get those 2 reps to agree with the changes you want, the other RAC reps will most likely support them.

 

[goofyelk]

I agree with Nebo12000, We need to start with the RAC's....

Something desperatly needs to be done!,,, Starting with
elimanation of the unlimited control cow permits.

It's flat out craxy every Tom,#####, ans Harry has a cow permit,
THAT HE CAN FILL ON THE DEER HUNT!------------That's Gotta go.

 

[mFlirt]

As hunters are we more concerned about not seeing pictures of big bulls verses actually getting an opportunity to draw a tag? I think personally, I would rather harvest a 340 bull than look at pictures all day of 380+ bulls. The reality is more applicants than 380+ bulls plain and simple. It sucks, but can you do about it? Fortunately, when you issue less tags the elk numbers bounce back and I believe the cycle of bigger bulls will come back.

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

"Why not talk to the 2
reps on the Central Region
RAC that live in the
Heber Valley. Get them on
your side. Writing on MM
isn't going to get the
results you want. If you
get those 2 reps to
agree with the changes you
want, the other RAC reps
will most likely support them."

Nebo, you say that like nobody has ever stood up in a RAC and voiced these same oppinions. I hate to break this to you but it's been said over and over again. I spent the better part of 7 years hunting elk on the 3C. It isn't "flooded with elk" like you would have us believe. Sure, it's got a good population but in all honesty, I've hunted public areas on the Wasatch that had as good of a concentration of elk. Sure, thin them out a little. I support that. But you can't pound an area year after year and not see it affect the hunting in the long term. That's the problem with the DWR, they are so short sighted that they can't prevent a problem from happening down the road. You do realize that they have had some serious issues in the past with elk herd management don't you? Does Fish Lake ring a bell? And you can't possibly expect us to believe that last statement, " If you get those 2 reps to agree with the changes you want, the other RAC reps will most likely support them". I've been to too many RAC meetings to know that isn't true. The ranchers won't agree on anything unless it involves letting cattle graze and killing every other thing that competes with them.

Bottom line, it's a mistake to take that many elk (especially cows) off that unit and expect to maintain a stustainable long term hunting population.







It's always an adventure!!!

 

[elkassassin]

Once again AWLB knows what the HELL is going on!

I've tried getting AWLB & a few others around here to take the DWR over & Straighten this whole thing out!

They're POUNDING Cows out in most of the State this year!

UN-F'N-BELIEVABLE!

BULL is Right when He mentions FishLake!

This will Piss DAX off(And I'm Not trying to agitate you DAX,just stating the Truth!) but I'll add Anthro in there as Well!

PISS POOR Management at it's Best!















I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

 

[nebo12000]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-13 AT 09:52AM (MST)[p]I have to agree with you on the DWR being shortsighted on the number of permits of antlerless permits they give out on some units. I have also seen how it can decimate herd numbers when they don't pull antlerless tags off a unit. Sometimes, once they put a plan in place the biologists don't want to change it even though there is ample evidence that their needs to be a change. I saw it happen on the Nebo -- increased LE tags, doubled antlerless tags, extended antlerless hunts through Jan 31-- it effectively hammered the unit. It went from a very good elk unit to a terrible unit in about 3 years. The big game manager for the unit (no longer with the division) absolutely would not listen or change the plan. It wasn't until they flew the unit and did the counts that they finally realized the dire situation that the elk herd was in. They did pull back big time on permits. Yes, I can see that happening on the Wasatch, but the last count showed a lot more elk on the private unhuntable lands which affects how many must be taken off the public lands.
Its too bad you seem to never find anything positive to say about how the big game is managed in the state though. 30 years ago you could only hunt elk in this state every 5 years-- and you would be lucky to even see a branch antlered bull. Deer hunting in the state is a sad situation though. Its come down to managing the number of hunters instead of the number of deer. Nothing the DWR has done to try and increase deer numbers has proved very successful-- not habitat, not permit numbers, not season lengths etc.-- after sitting on the RAC for 7 years, it comes down to (and I will catch a lot of grief from the hounds guys for this statement) removing more predators-- cougars especially. If there are 2000 cougars in the state and they average killing 1 deer every 1 1/2 weeks that would be 68,000 deer killed every year. I believe that they are killing mostly does--. Look at deer populations pre- 1972 when Pres. Nixon signed the order to ban the use of 1080 poison on all Federal lands. Go find out what happened to deer numbers in the Western US after that. Yeah, you will find excuses like-- there was a extended drought etc. but the fact is that the numbers continue to shrink. We no longer see the big increases in deer numbers over a couple years after a bad winter kill-- I believe the major factor is that predators successfully help eliminate any increase in numbers that happens each spring. So, until we are willing to make drastic changes in the way we approach and deal with how many predators we have taking their piece of the deer pie , the deer numbers in this state will not get any better and the only thing that we can count on for sure is that deer hunting opportunities for us will only get less.

 

[elkassassin]

JFP!

You've done your arithmetic on the Lions,GEEZUS!

Now add it up for the Coyotes!

Guess More TARDS meaning More RoadKills is never added up?

I could Post 30 Reasons why Deer Ain't coming back in TARDville!












I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

"Its too bad you seem to never find anything positive to say about how the big game is managed in the state though." Nebo

I've always said that I thought our elk herds have come along way. THat being said, they always seem to find a way to ruin their successful efforts. For the most part the DWR has done a good job on the elk herds. Not by themselves however. Had big game management been left solely up to the DWR we would be hunting ghosts right now.

I hunted elk with my dad as a young hunter during that very time you speak of. However, we hunted every year not every 5 years and took a bull about every other year. I have never hunted a cow. My choice. We've come a long way with elk. I fully expect those that sit on the RAC's to uphold that success not go so far down the opportunists path that we ruin a good thing.

Some of the successful efforts of the DWR:
* Pheasant populations???
* Parker Mountain antelope herd - a very successful
transplanting job. Almost transplanted it out of a hunting
population.
* Fish Lake cow hunt in early 2000's. An absolute massacre.
Almost repeated history a couple of years ago had it not been
for sportsmans outcry.
* Mule deer populations - do I really need to go down this road?

You know what they say about history?!



It's always an adventure!!!

 

[elkassassin]

I agree with AWLB!

Always Have & Always will!

What do they say about History?

Well,History should be a Learning Lesson,in this State I'm not sure they Learn from it!

I'll add another what could have been successful efforts of the UDWR:

Some of you may not even know or remember this one:

PHU's!(Mighta been Pre-Mature CWMU's in the making?)

They closed some small areas down,was suppose to be closed for 5 years/5 year plan for resurrection of the Mule Deer/Bucks with a little Age!

By year 4 the Bucks were getting there,We seen several 24"-26" Bucks with a few 28" Bucks!

People started SCREAMING to KILL them Bucks on year 4(One year earlier than the Plan to Open back up,they(People!) couldn't stand it!)

So they opened it up a year early!

Between people Poaching/Shooting/Wounding them the Night before Season and a Complete Slaughter opening morning,they were decimated by opening night,completely Gone,ZERO Left,4 Years totally Shot in the Ass!

Ya,I know this is the Elk Forum,just telling you I did see the DWR do something good!

What took 4 years to Accomplish was completely Knocked the FRICK out within Hours due to GREED!

DWR shoulda manned up & told the People,there's gonna be limited Permits,It will stay as a 5 year plan,We will Manage like it's suppose to be managed & You're not going to kill all the GAWD-DAMNED Bucks within the first 24 Hours that took 4 years to achieve!

But that didn't happen!











From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!

 

[Cam@strawberry]

More so than the screw ups of past, I think its incredibly irresponsible to allow a public asset to be run by a state agency that has no checks or controls at the bottom level.

There is no one checking the numbers that the biologists are submitting, we simply accept it as the God given truth and then pick apart the proposal that was submitted and prepared by the biologists and given to the region reps to put together into the state plan.

Fishlake happened because the numbers weren't accurate, no one checked and everyone screamed we are over objective have to kill some elk. The deer decline happens because at some level we have a failure to crunch numbers correctly, whether its predator management, harvest, road kill estimates, whatever, its a faulty numbers game.

At the very bottom of these issues is the validity of the submitted numbers, and we as sportsmen, rac members, board members, and so forth are fed a proposal that is based off of a few peoples observations. Those people are for the most part from one organization. Which presents a huge problem in my mind when a RAC or wildlife board has reps from multiple facets of life. IMHO its a massive flaw in the system and one that must be dealt with before we can move forward effectively.

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters