Bull score...

cbstewart

Member
Messages
22
My brother finally drew a good Nevada bull tag for early rifle. Admittedly, I am completely new to the world of field judging elk. I am also completely new to the world of forums, so I hope I'm doing this right. We have found several nice bulls over the past couple of weeks of scouting (season isn't until November), but no matter how many articles and books I read, I've found this field judging crap is a little more difficult than it sounds. I judged him behind the scope around 360-370, but 'ground shrinkage' is starting to set in now that I've had some time to look at the pics, ha. Problem is, I've had "seasoned" guys score him at "No more than 340". What would you guys score this bull?

879bull2.jpg
 
my guess would be somewhere around 340 to 350 he looks like a older bull with the pot belly
 
Those 4ths and 5ths are huge...making the others look shorter. He's north of 350 all day everyday


Traditional >>>------->
 
I'd say 350. Good tine length and looks like average to long main beam. Wouldn't be surprised if went 360. I'd shot him!!
 
>
>
879bull2.jpg



Right
G1-17 1/2
g2-15
g3-12 1/2
g4-22
g5-15
beam-52
spread- 42 1/2???
left
g1-17 1/2
g2-15
g3-12 1/2
g4-23
g5-20
beam-52
total mass-55
371 gross is my total. This size of bull doesn't matter he is simply BIG, shoot first and care about the score later!




Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"


Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer?
 
Thanks for all of the feedback so far everyone. Mntman, your measurements are almost on par for what I was putting him at, except I was guessing the G1's are about 15, putting him a little under 370. I probably need a lot more practice. Thanks for your breakdown though, really helpful.
 
Here's another bull we're keeping an eye on. Real long tines but narrow and not as pretty as the other bull. I know, you're getting too damn picky when you look at that bull and say he's not pretty enough, but we'll see what happens when the adrenaline starts pumping anyways... (sorry for the crappy quality, we glassed him up about a mile away at first light).

6298img_3641.jpg
 
>Thanks for all of the feedback
>so far everyone. Mntman,
>your measurements are almost on
>par for what I was
>putting him at, except I
>was guessing the G1's are
>about 15, putting him a
>little under 370. I
>probably need a lot more
>practice. Thanks for your
>breakdown though, really helpful.

In my experience once they get that 3-5" curve at the ends they are past the 14-15" point.



Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"


Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer?
 
>Here's another bull we're keeping an
>eye on. Real long
>tines but narrow and not
>as pretty as the other
>bull. I know, you're
>getting too damn picky when
>you look at that bull
>and say he's not pretty
>enough, but we'll see what
>happens when the adrenaline starts
>pumping anyways... (sorry for the
>crappy quality, we glassed him
>up about a mile away
>at first light).
>
>
6298img_3641.jpg


He definitely has some score potential! can't see the fronts or his right G5 but other than that he is huge! Those long 3rd's will give a huge bump to final tally.



Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"


Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer?
 
>Here's another bull we're keeping an
>eye on. Real long
>tines but narrow and not
>as pretty as the other
>bull. I know, you're
>getting too damn picky when
>you look at that bull
>and say he's not pretty
>enough, but we'll see what
>happens when the adrenaline starts
>pumping anyways... (sorry for the
>crappy quality, we glassed him
>up about a mile away
>at first light).
>
>
6298img_3641.jpg



The bull on the right I would say probably around a total of 40 inches. Not bad! :]
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-14 AT 08:09AM (MST)[p]You guy are nuts IMHO. That first bull is over 340's and the second is huge, spread or no spread.

I'm with Mntman but the right g5 should be 20 -21
 
I would go 355-365 on that first bull.. He is solid maybe a little weak on the G2s... That second bull if he matches in the bottom what we can see in the top he is 370+
 
Thanks for posting the pictures. I would put the first bull at 360+ and the second bull at 370+! It should be a fun hunt for you and your brother!! Let us know how it ends up!
 
Here comes the giant discrepancies again. There's a HUGE difference between 340 and 360. I guess that's why everyone says to shoot first and tape later when it comes to elk, huh? Thanks for all of the input though guys. And I agree, the 2nd bull just gets bigger and bigger every time I look at him, but my brother says he wouldn't be happy with a narrow bull on his wall? so we'll keep hiking. Ha.
 
ive shot 3 bulls over 390. 2 bulls over 380. a few bulls over 370 and too many to count over 340.

i can assure u that the first bull is in the 370 to 375 range. that second bull could push the 380 range if his fronts are there. these mm self proclaimed scorers kill me lol. id love to show u guys an in line 8x7 i passed last year. i guarantee u guys would score him at 365 or so. he scored 401" on the ground.
 
I'm with you stomper. If most of the scores are correct on here I'll never reach my goal of tagging a 370+ bull because the only way I could pass that first bull is if I knew where the second was hanging out.
 
Hunting public land and passing either of those bulls is a mistake that first bull whoever says that bull is just 340 never has shot a 360+ bull. That bull is 360 all day. That second bull I won't put a number in because I can't see his bottoms but if they match his back end let your brother pass and then you drop him. If you were hunting a reservation in AZ or NM I'd say pass because there are bigger bulls out there just have to open the check book up a little more but a 390 res bull is a 330 public land bull in my book. But on public land.....DIY..... I think it would be crazy to pass on either of those bulls unless you've seen a bigger bull and know where he's at. Seen not heard of a bigger bull, we've all heard of the 400" ghost stories.
 
Well, this thread his been helpful in more ways than one. It has made me realize that I'm not the only uneducated guy out there, ha. No offense to anyone, but the bottom line in all of this is half of you are probably right and the other half have no idea what you're talking about. Which half is which? I have no flippin idea. But even with my limited bull field judging experience, I'd have to say that "340" is absolutely crazy. If he is, we all better be looking for the next spider bull just to have a shot at getting in the state books.

I definitely agree that he has to be around 360. Like I said, I judged him at 370 through the scope, but I'm not sure if his 2nds and even his 4ths would get him there. But if Mntman is correct, maybe he will (thanks again for that tip, that's the kind of experience I'm looking for). And no worries, if my brother sees the first bull during his hunt, I can guarantee it will be on the ground in 2 heartbeats? or however long it takes to hit it :) When we were looking at it, he said, "I want that one on my wall". To which I replied, "Good, cause if you passed him up I'd punch you in the mouth".

I'll keep you up to date if we find anymore shooters. I'm sure we will, it's a good area that we know fairly well and this was just our first scouting trip. Thanks again for the feedback everyone. At the very least, these conversations will keep my heart pumping until one is on the ground.

Fine Art and Photography
http://cbstewart.myshopify.com
 
Like others have said, I think the second bull is a stud assuming his fronts are there. Based on your pics, the second bull would be my #1. Both are great bulls, but just going off those pics, I like bull #2.
 
Both are shooters, I like the first the most.
He will tip the scales of being over that 370 mark IMHO.
Still holding out for a LO tag somewhere this year, Didn't draw crap.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
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>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
That first bull is 365 or bigger, easily. Easily.

And there really isn't that much difference between a 340 and 360 bull. On a 6x6 that is only one inch longer on each tine and a little more mass. Looking through a scope at 300 yards, you may not recognize the 20 inch difference all that easily.
 
>ive shot 3 bulls over 390.
>2 bulls over 380.
>a few bulls over 370
>and too many to count
>over 340.
>


Nice work! Two questions: How in the world do you draw so many tags? And, if you aren't drawing that many, what do you do for a living to be able to buy that many tags?

Just joking, of course. But that is an impressive resume.
 
I would be happy with either one, but that second one.... I would definitely like to get a closer look at him. I love the look of that bull.
 
So, that first bull has to be in the 365+ range and is just a beaut.

But that second bull really has me intrigued. He looks to be every inch as big as the first -- and like others have said, there is just something about him.

Either way, I'm jealous of your upcoming hunt. PLEASE post pics when you get back -- even if its tag soup.
 
I think the first bull is 360". :)

I think the second bull would actually outscore him, if he has pretty evenly matching points to those we can see.

But I'm with you, that first bull is about as perfect a specimen as you'll ever see in a trophy bull- Gorgeous bull..!!

Keep us updated on what you end up with...

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
Exactly what I was thinking! A guy is either really lucky or works as a guide on the San Carlos if he can, within an inch, judge the length of mains and each of the 12+ points (not to mention the mass) to arrive at the correct score while field-judging.

__________________________________
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2nd look has me rethinking my guess. I would say 360 is a pretty close guess. Made a habit of judging on the low side, its the pits field judging an animal and find out your guess was on the high side. I'm just not seeing 370. That's big, hell 360 is big. Seems to have to short of beams, 3rds are nothing special, brows look decent not crazy. Top ends good, maybe that makes his beams appear shorter. Pictures are tough. if I was guiding I would say 360 and if he happens to be better happy hunter.
 
I keep looking at the 2nd bull and I strongly recommend getting a better view of that guy. There is a lot of tines visible in that pic, you should really see what those fronts look like. Spread doesn't mean much when you are comparing a 39" to a 44" bull or something similar. It is only 4-8" difference.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"


Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer?
 
That's actually a really good point Vanilla. I haven't really thought of it that way. It just seems like saying a possible 360 bull looks like a 340 bull is a slap in the face, but maybe not. I keep thinking with a mule deer mind and to me, calling a 190 buck a 170 or 160 buck is getting way off track, but when I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And you're probably right there.

Trust me, I'm going to do everything in my power to get back in and see that 2nd bull. I've had many'a conversation about him. He just seems to get bigger and bigger each time I look at him, while the first bull is staying in the 360 range every time I look at him. Granted, the first is probably missing his 5th on the one side, but like you guys say, if his fronts are as great as the rest, he's a big bugger. I wish we would have been closer to him, but we were already 3 miles in by first light and he was already making his way over a peak about 2,500 ft. higher than us by the time I had a chance to grab a few pics of him.

There will be plenty more pics to come. I wish we could stay on these 2 bulls, but with a high-pressure Nevada unit with 2 seasons ahead of us, we figure we need to locate at least 3 more bulls like these by November so we don't get to opening day without at least 2 options. But that just means you guys will help me score a lot more nice bulls :)

Fine Art and Photography
http://cbstewart.myshopify.com
 
Pretty sure that's an all-time B&C contender. Well balanced, without weakness. Being conservative, I'd say 55 beam, 17, 16, 16, 20, 15 for tines, 30 for mass, if he's got a 40+ spread that'll put him in the 380 gross range. I can't see the 2nd one to know much more than he's XL. I hope you get that first one, there's no way he nets under 360 - he's a record book bull without a doubt.
 
I'm no expert at judging bulls but I would bet once you have him on the ground he'll be a lot better than 340! I've seen a bunch of guys on here call 390 bulls 330 in the past! Id say the bull's at least 360. In my opinion, without seeing him standing next to other elk, it's hard to say how big he really is. He could be a huge bodied bull (he looks it to me) and be 370+ easily. A friend of mine shot a bull he thought was 370 and when he got to him and seen how huge his body was, he knew his guess was way off. The bull scored over 400! Awesome bull regardless of what he scores. That second bull is sweet too. Good luck.
 
cbstewart-

20 inches on a deer is a lot more noticeable than on an elk. And people that are experienced and really good will notice clearly the 20 inch difference on the elk.

But if you saw a 345 inch elk at 300 yards on Monday, and then a 365 inch elk at 300 yards on Tuesday, I believe it would be tough for the vast majority of us to tell the difference.
 
Holding that tag and having to choose between those two bulls is a pretty nice problem to have. mtmuley
 

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