Archery hunting by the moon?

T

Trad Bow 1979

Active Member
Messages
649
This is my first archery elk hunt. I got the whole month of september for my season. I noticed that the first half of the season has the moon out,the last half of the season not so much. I know for rifle hunting I always tried to hunt when there was the least amount of moon. What do you guys think?
 
Don't worry about the moon, just hunt. They don't need the moon to see at night, they can see just fine with no moon and cloudy. Never affected my hunts.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"


Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer?
 
I've been Elk hunting for over 40 years and don't see a difference. I hunt as much of the season as I can regardless of the moon.
 
There are gobs of web posts in regard to this subject. Everyone seems to have their own opinion. A lot depends on the particular area you will be hunting (elevation, latitude, daytime temps, cloudy vs rainy, open sage vs thick timber country, etc). If you are hunting lower elevation in Southern UT where daytime temps can get up into the 90's you can pretty much bank on elk not being too terribly active during daylight hours when there is a full moon. They will likely spend most of their time during daylight on the coolest north facing slopes available in fairly dense trees. You aren't doing yourself a favor hunting in those conditions! If it's rainy during the day at the same spot you can almost count on elk being more active than those 90 degree days even with a full moon! If you are hunting 10=11,000 elevation in Colo with afternoon rain showers the full moon might not matter as much because daytime temps will likely be cooler. All I can say is you may have LONG BORING days if it's sunny, 90 degrees, and full moon.

Another consideration is hunting pressure. If you are hunting an OTC elk unit in Colo you can bet the elk will likely be a little more active at night especially with a full moon.

If I wait 10-20 years to draw a limited tag you can bet I look at the moon phase each particular year before making my decision to apply! My decision isn't totally based on moon phase but it certainly can make life easy or rougher! I would expect the elk to be fairly active during the no-moon weeks in Sept this year...especially if it's cool and cloudy.
 
One of the first things I looked up was the moon phases when I got my LE muzzy elk tag. I can't change the moon but I was stoked to see there will be no moon the first night of the hunt!
The bow hunters are starting their hunt next weekend and they are dealing with the brightest new moon of the year. I didn't need a flashlight in camp when I was scouting this weekend.
 
Photoperiodism guides wildlife more than anything else. Weather and moon phases may intensify things a bit but their biological actions are triggered by photoperiodism. IMHO
 
Sorry but I strongly disagree with your photoperiodism statement above. What about photoperiodism in the low elevations in Southern Utah when there is a full moon and 90 degree day temps? Day length may be prime but what about the other factors that trigger rut activity? I would venture a guess that not much activity would happen during daylight hours even if the photoperiod says it's perfect timing for the rut. I don't know how many times I've seen it when a sudden cold snap triggered elk rut activity.

I would also venture a guess that perfect photoperiod in Colo during the 3rd rifle season wouldn't really matter too much in high pressured OTC elk units when daytime temps are in the 70's, no snow, full moon, and the deer haven't started wandering down to their rutting grounds. I don't know how many times I've hunted in Colo when the photoperiod was perfect for muledeer but they weren't rutting what-so-ever..or possibly a little night activity. I would say that hunting pressure, weather, and other factors are just as important and sometimes more important for guiding wildlife actions than photoperiodism. Obviously when all the stars align with photoperiodism, weather, hunting pressure, etc...the rut is on!
 
>Sorry but I strongly disagree with
>your photoperiodism statement above.
>What about photoperiodism in the
>low elevations in Southern Utah
>when there is a full
>moon and 90 degree day
>temps? Day length may
>be prime but what about
>the other factors that trigger
>rut activity? I would
>venture a guess that not
>much activity would happen during
>daylight hours even if the
>photoperiod says it's perfect timing
>for the rut. I
>don't know how many times
>I've seen it when a
>sudden cold snap triggered elk
>rut activity.
>
>I would also venture a guess
>that perfect photoperiod in Colo
>during the 3rd rifle season
>wouldn't really matter too much
>in high pressured OTC elk
>units when daytime temps are
>in the 70's, no snow,
>full moon, and the deer
>haven't started wandering down to
>their rutting grounds. I
>don't know how many times
>I've hunted in Colo when
>the photoperiod was perfect for
>muledeer but they weren't rutting
>what-so-ever..or possibly a little night
>activity. I would say
>that hunting pressure, weather, and
>other factors are just as
>important and sometimes more important
>for guiding wildlife actions than
>photoperiodism. Obviously when all
>the stars align with photoperiodism,
>weather, hunting pressure, etc...the rut
>is on!


The majority of calves are born the same week every year. The gestation period of an elk hasn't changed in my lifetime. How does this happen?
 
>>Sorry but I strongly disagree with
>>your photoperiodism statement above.
>>What about photoperiodism in the
>>low elevations in Southern Utah
>>when there is a full
>>moon and 90 degree day
>>temps? Day length may
>>be prime but what about
>>the other factors that trigger
>>rut activity? I would
>>venture a guess that not
>>much activity would happen during
>>daylight hours even if the
>>photoperiod says it's perfect timing
>>for the rut. I
>>don't know how many times
>>I've seen it when a
>>sudden cold snap triggered elk
>>rut activity.
>>
>>I would also venture a guess
>>that perfect photoperiod in Colo
>>during the 3rd rifle season
>>wouldn't really matter too much
>>in high pressured OTC elk
>>units when daytime temps are
>>in the 70's, no snow,
>>full moon, and the deer
>>haven't started wandering down to
>>their rutting grounds. I
>>don't know how many times
>>I've hunted in Colo when
>>the photoperiod was perfect for
>>muledeer but they weren't rutting
>>what-so-ever..or possibly a little night
>>activity. I would say
>>that hunting pressure, weather, and
>>other factors are just as
>>important and sometimes more important
>>for guiding wildlife actions than
>>photoperiodism. Obviously when all
>>the stars align with photoperiodism,
>>weather, hunting pressure, etc...the rut
>>is on!
>
>
>The majority of calves are born
>the same week every year.
>The gestation period of an
>elk hasn't changed in my
>lifetime. How does this happen?
>

+1
plus jims we are talking about moon phase and you relate activity to weather (which I agree) if its hot doesn't matter if there is a moon or not most activity is at night. If its cool, doesn't matter on moon, rut activity carries more over into day time...
Moon phase does not affect animals (they can see in the dark no matter how dark it is, if they couldn't the species would be extinct). Weather helps determine how "active" they are during the day.



Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"


Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer?
 
Here's a simple hypothetical: if the moon was full the entire month of September which 2 wks would u hunt? If there was no moon the entire month of September which 2 wks would u hunt? My answer would be the same in both scenarios.
 
DW, In both cases I would stay flexible with my hunting dates and wait to see what was going on with the weather, moon, and rut before making my decision on which 2 weeks to hunt!
 
>DW, In both cases I would
>stay flexible with my hunting
>dates and wait to see
>what was going on with
>the weather, moon, and rut
>before making my decision on
>which 2 weeks to hunt!
>


I'm just a workin stiff so I hunt every chance I get like alotta folks I spect. But if I had my choice I'd hunt the last half of the month. The weather will b cooler (as u said). The rookies will have weakened and gone home (pressure as u said). But most importantly it will be closer to the peak of the rut which generally makes them more vocal and visible and less cautious. And this phenomenon happens the same time every year due to photoperiodism. Now if the moon is dark and the mornings frosty, or better still an early shot of snow, well all the better. But IMHO my chances for success are best during the rut. Full moon, no moon, hot or cold those cows come into heat the same time every year enabling them to give birth in the most advantages time, as the grass greens so she produces the most milk and far enough from the next winter for her calf to grow strong enough to survive. It's perfect.
 
That make sense, Give or take a few days the rut happens every year.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
Thanks for the info guys, really interesting. I think I am gonna go ahead and hit the first half of the hunt and not sweat the moon. I am thinking that most of the pressure is going to show up towards the end in order to hit the rut. I am going to just try out silent or cold calling. I checked the weather for the whole month. Rainy days are going to be moving in and out throughout the entire season. On sunny days the temp ranges are forecasted to vary by 3-5 degrees. Thanks guys!
 
Utah hates Bowhunters! Lol...Not much to do, but work with what we have, adapt and get it done...


'Ike'

Bowhunter...
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-14 AT 01:47AM (MST)[p]I would tend to think that cows have their calves within approximately 3 week window each spring..just like they come into estrous within a 3 week period each year. A hot, dry fall will likely delay the rut (estrus) one year and a cool, wet fall may hasten the rut another year. Each unit throughout the west likely has different hunting season lengths, dates, weather, elevations, moon, hunting pressure, etc. If you hunt many states throughout the West you will quickly notice that things can change dramatically from area to area, unit to unit....and year to year!

I'll use Wyo as another example. If you hunt the later 2 to 3 weeks of Sept in unit 38 you might miss out totally on the rut...and elk in the unit. They are highly migratory that time of year. Last year and a few years ago are great examples of when most elk moved out of the unit due to snow and hunting pressure in Sept.

Timing is pretty much everything for elk. If you hit it right pre-rut when bulls are gathering cows and a cold snap moves through you might do incredible. If you hunt the same time the following year with a full moon and 90 degrees you could be screwed! If it's hot, full moon, and 90 degrees in late Sept things could get tough even though the calendar might say the photoperiod is just right! With that said, if limited with hunting days I recommend staying as flexible with hunting dates as possible...see how things are shaping up and head to the hills when conditions are best! I will stick with my first comment that weather and other factors are just as important as photoperiod! If you hunt by photoperiod alone you may be sorely disappointed especially if you hunt several Western US states.
 
Good luck 82nd! Hope u stick a toad! I got buddies that say no better time to call 1 than that 1st week! Shoot us some pics!
 
don't forget sitting wallows if you are hunting the first part of season, that cow calling can be good but so can stand hunting.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"


>wah wah wah......
Zigger?s response on 8/12/2014 to anyone that commits suicide.
zigger is a great example of a low life pos, that doesn't deserve any help. There are many things that would be nice to wish for or say but then I would be just like him.
 
Well said Mntman!

There are tons of articles out there supporting the fact that rut activity is photoperiodic and activity wil vary during daytime hours based on other factors, as you mentioned.

Best of luck to you OP, hope you stick a big ol stinky so we can all admire him :)


>>The majority of calves are born
>>the same week every year.
>>The gestation period of an
>>elk hasn't changed in my
>>lifetime. How does this happen?
>>
>
>+1
>plus jims we are talking about
>moon phase and you relate
>activity to weather (which I
>agree) if its hot doesn't
>matter if there is a
>moon or not most activity
>is at night. If its
>cool, doesn't matter on moon,
>rut activity carries more over
>into day time...
>Moon phase does not affect animals
>(they can see in the
>dark no matter how dark
>it is, if they couldn't
>the species would be extinct).
>Weather helps determine how "active"
>they are during the day.
>
>
>
>
>Mntman
>
>"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
>
>
>
>Let me guess, you drive a
>1 ton with oak trees
>for smoke stacks, 12" lift
>kit and 40" tires to
>pull a single place lawn
>mower trailer?


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-20-14 AT 07:24PM (MST)[p]Seems like we just got through with the 'Super Moon' and head right back into another Full with in a week or two...WTH! Lol


'Ike'

Bowhunter...
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-21-14 AT 10:33AM (MST)[p]

Photoperiodism triggers the testosterone level changes in bulls and the resultant dropping of their antlers, new growth, and their rutting behavior. The moon, stars, and wishfully thinking have nothing to do with it. Age class of the bulls in the heard as well as overall health of the cows will swing the conception period by about 1 week. The conception dates also varied by a week or two depending on geographical location in another study I read this morning. In that study the cows conceived the last week of sept and the 1st week of oct if my short memory is correct. I'll link to that paper when I get home late tonight.

Breeding was one of the first experiments conducted in the Starkey Experimental forest under controlled conditions. Other papers have been written and published as well, easily found on the Internet.

http://www.muledeerworkinggroup.com...Workshop/Breeding Season of Elk in Oregon.pdf
 
>LAST EDITED ON Aug-20-14
>AT 07:18?PM (MST)
>
>Photoperiodism triggers the testosterone level changes
>in bulls and the resultant
>dropping of their antlers, new
>growth, and their rutting behavior.
>The moon, stars, and wishfully
>thinking have nothing to do
>with it. Age class of
>the bulls in the heard
>as well as overall health
>of the cows will swing
>the conception period by about
>1 week. The conception dates
>also varied by a week
>or two depending on geographical
>location in another study I
>read this morning. In that
>study the cows conceived the
>last week of sept and
>the 1st week of oct
>if my short memory is
>correct. I'll link to that
>paper when I get home
>late tonight.
>
>Breeding was one of the first
>experiments conducted in the Starkey
>Experimental forest under controlled conditions.
>Other papers have been written
>and published as well, easily
>found on the Internet.


I wouldn't steer ya wrong bob!
 
So what some of you are saying is that the last couple weeks of Sept is the best timing for an elk hunt? It sounds like some live and die by photoperiod?

If it were me and I only had a week to hunt I would stay flexible with dates...and watch the weather! If it was rainy and cool the first 2 weeks of Sept with no moon and there was a full moon and 90 degrees with no rain during the last 2 weeks of Sept you can guess which date I would hunt! However, if I had to pick a week to hunt and couldn't be flexible I would likely pick dates that match prime rut in the particular area I'm hunting....which may be a little different in the PJ low country in Southern UT vs 10,000 elevation in Colo.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-22-14 AT 06:25PM (MST)[p]Under your scenario I would still hunt the last 2 weeks. The bigger bulls will be trolling for estrus cows, and the mid size bulls will be tending herds and bugling their heads off thinking they're king of the mtn. The drier conditions will enable me to hear raking bulls easier and should one come in silent, increase the odds I can hear him coming. I see no downside.
If you see an advantage under your scenario to hunt earlier, and you must have, having confidence in your tactics is probably the most important factor in success.
 
>So what some of you are
>saying is that the last
>couple weeks of Sept is
>the best timing for an
>elk hunt? It sounds like
>some live and die by
>photoperiod?
>
>If it were me and I
>only had a week to
>hunt I would stay flexible
>with dates...and watch the weather!
> If it was rainy
>and cool the first 2
>weeks of Sept with no
>moon and there was a
>full moon and 90 degrees
>with no rain during the
>last 2 weeks of Sept
>you can guess which date
>I would hunt! However,
>if I had to pick
>a week to hunt and
>couldn't be flexible I would
>likely pick dates that match
>prime rut in the particular
>area I'm hunting....which may be
>a little different in the
>PJ low country in Southern
>UT vs 10,000 elevation in
>Colo.

I live and die by the rut which is triggered by photoperiodism the same time every year and I pray to the elk gods to give me favorable weather. I've only killed 30 or so but it's almost always been the last couple wks of sept or the first couple wks of oct. Sometimes the weather was hot and sunny, sometimes it was cold and snowy. Sometimes it was during a full moon, sometimes there was no moon. But it's always the same time of year! And Bob's point about confidence in yer tactics is money. If u don't believe in what yer doin and how yer doin it you probably won't b successful. No different than the old "what's the best gun for elk huntin?" The one u shoot the best!
 
DW, sounds like you hunt OTC elk in Colo's high alpine country every year? You are probably right on the mark with that particular senerio at high elevation where temperatures likely drop considerably in late Sept. You may find out the hard way that things are a bit different elsewhere in the country...especially if you are talking about low elevation, full moon, and 90 degree temperatures during prime photoperiod! Your reference to first 2 weeks in Sept or first couple weeks of Oct is a month long period and is a little different than your tried and true 2 week photoperiod window in late Sept. Congrats on your 30 or so bulls!
 
I hunt at about 8500ft. Our muzzy season is late sept. Our first rifle is early oct. That 4 wk window is a by product of the season structure here. There's a wk comin in and a wk goin out that they're actin the same, but the majority of conceptions is the last wk in Sept and the first wk in Oct. There are studies on whitetails in areas of poor buck/doe ratios that document a second and third rut 30 days and 60 days after the peak rut, where unbreed does come back into heat as well as young (6 month old) does. I suspect elk are similar in this respect. We all know when it's hot it's a tough row to hoe, you won't get an arguement from me on that! I've got plenty of empty tags to prove that 1! But I wanna b out amongst em when they're doin their thing. It gives me my best chance IMHO. And those 30 weren't all bulls.....I like the way they eat! Truth b told the very best eatin elk I ever had was a spike still in velvet! With a spike u know exactly what yer gettin....an 18 month old elk. I've only killed 2 spikes and they eat alot better than those rutted up 5's and 6's, or an 8 yr old cow! Good luck this fall jim sounds like u got a strategy u have confidence in and has worked for u in the past! As Bob said that's a huge factor in a successful hunt!
 
82ndreddevil, so to sum it up, leaving everything else out and JUST the MOON phase, no it doesn't matter when hunting elk.:D

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"


>wah wah wah......
a certain individuals response on 8/12/2014 to anyone that commits suicide.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID11/19864.html
There are many things that would be nice to wish for or say but then I would be just like him.
 
And I suspect that even at low elevation, on aveerage,the temp the last 2 wks of sept are cooler than the first 2.
 
>82ndreddevil, so to sum it up,
>leaving everything else out and
>JUST the MOON phase, no
>it doesn't matter when hunting
>elk.:D
>
>Mntman
>
>"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
>
>
>
>>wah wah wah......
>a certain individuals response on 8/12/2014
>to anyone that commits suicide.
>
>http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID11/19864.html
>There are many things that would
>be nice to wish for
>or say but then I
>would be just like him.
>


Tired of this 1 mtnmn? Lmao!
 
Great article! He mentions that: The timing of the elk rut for different areas is triggered by photoperiod, and may differ in different areas. If you breeze through the different contributers to the article I don't see many that state that there is a fixed, same 1 to 2 week prime bugling and rutting time each year that is set in stone across the US. Almost all authors mention that the peak of the rut is around the 3rd week in Sept but most mention that this can vary. I would tend to agree.
 
>>82ndreddevil, so to sum it up,
>>leaving everything else out and
>>JUST the MOON phase, no
>>it doesn't matter when hunting
>>elk.:D
>>
>>Mntman
>>
>>"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
>>
>>
>>
>>>wah wah wah......
>>a certain individuals response on 8/12/2014
>>to anyone that commits suicide.
>>
>>http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID11/19864.html
>>There are many things that would
>>be nice to wish for
>>or say but then I
>>would be just like him.
>>
>
>
>Tired of this 1 mtnmn? Lmao!
>

yep :)
Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"


>wah wah wah......
a certain individuals response on 8/12/2014 to anyone that commits suicide.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID11/19864.html
There are many things that would be nice to wish for or say but then I would be just like him.
 
Whew, glad we got that all straightened out boys!

Hey OP, just go kill a big bull and show us pics :)


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
 
Hey 82 yer a week in, give us an update, how goes the battle? Whatcha seein? Talkin?
 
Well, that was a tough hunt! We were in CO unit 81 just North of Chama NM off of HWY 17. Day 1 saw about 6 muley bucks which was nice. Day 2, had two 8 point bucks broadside at 29 yards. Made me wish I had a deer tag! As for elk, I could not even find sign that was less than a day old. The sign was very sparadic, no real concentrations of sign in any area. I talked to some of the locals and they said that the elk were everywhere until the last week of August and then they seemed to dissapear. I talked to some people in Elk Creak and Fox Creak that said they heard some people are pulling them out of the third and fourth meadows off of the Elk Creak Trail. Unfortunately that is an 8 mile walk. I then talked to the guy that works at the archery shop in Pagosa Springs, he said some people are going in deep at the West Fork and pulling out some cows. Every now and then I would run across someone that said they saw a small 5x5 or something like that. But nobody hunting on foot seemed to be able to know where the elk were. All those areas I saw elk at in early August were dry holes. One morning I heard a bugle, it sounded like either a young bull or another hunter. I threw back a non agressive response. But nothing came of it. If I was on my own I would have gone ahead and pushed in deep but I had my dad with me and for safety reasons I elected not to do it. I did however really question the whole moon thing out there. Everyday I saw deer, nearly all day. The deer were moving from dawn until about 11:00 am, then they would be up again moving around 3:00 pm. Even with the full moon, those deer spent a lot of time moving and feeding. But the elk were just not in the area. I did come back an arrow short though. One evening I was working my way back to camp and it was starting to get dark. All of the sudden I caught a scent of something gamey in the air. I thought I was about to kick up an elk so I got an arrow ready. All of a sudden a Cinnemon bear spun up from behind a log at 10 yards away. I guess he was catching a nap. I yelled at him, then kicked a rock towards him but he held his ground. Everything I have read about bear encounters said that you must hold your ground, so i did.
I absolutely did not want to shoot that bear, afterall its not like he came into my living room, I stepped into his. But it was getting dark and he started rustling the ground and pushing on some deadfall, he then started to crouch and I thought he was about to charge. So I put my 30 yard pin right under his chin and let it fly. The arrow smacked him in the head and skiped off into a pine tree. The bear turned and ran like hell. I saw right where the arrow hit, he did not lose an eye or anything like that. So the silverlining in the encounter is that they bear did not have to be killed. I know when your in bear country you are supposed to make noise so that your not on top of them when you startle them but I was looking for elk :) Like I said, it was a tough hunt, but I still learned a thing or two that I can take with me to next season.
 
Been hearing a lot of folks having bear encounters this year. Scary situation for sure! Glad it worked out for ya.

Too bad on the elk though but it sounds like you have the right attitude about it.

We saw the same thing with the moon and it's lack of impact on the critters movement. The animals we were chasing were out and about till well after sunrise (around 10-11 AM) and would be up again feeding and moving around 4 PM everyday, even with the full moon. Interesting!


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
 
I think I would stick to the first two weeks for a few reasons. I felt the hunter saturation was low while I was there, not too many hunters at all. I think more people are going to show up for the rut. Then at that point every time you hear a bugle you are not sure if its a bull or another hunter. And as I mentioned before, the amount of deer activity I saw convinced me that the moon had no effect on them. My issue on the hunt was that the elk moved in deeper before the hunt started and I was unable to get in that deep with my dad. So if I was to do anything different I would say that I would have made another scouting trip a week out from my hunt to confirm weather or not the elk are still where I found them a month before. A week is not much time to change plans but maybe I could have arranged something to help us get in deeper. From what I have been told by locals and what I experienced in my 2010 rifle hunt in that same area is that once the elk go high and deep they do not show up again until the snow pushes them down.
 

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