huntexpo tags

[ridgerunner]

Is there somewhere I can see teh season dates on the tags that are going to be raffled off? I can find a list of tags but no season dates.

 

[Silentstalker]

Same dates as the normal LE hunts by weapon type. No special seasons. Hope that helps.

 

[inline]

You will have to research them on the division's website.

 

[ktc]

These guys are right, just look up your hunts on the DWR site. Same dates. For example; Beaver Late expo tag will fall on the same dates as the Beaver Late hunts you apply for.

Nice to see some guys will to get out and enjoy the expo. I am not so sure I would go out of state to go to it, but it IS worth it IMO.

 

[tuttut2001]

My name is Daren Tuttle and I am the Utah State Chair of the Mule Deer Foundation (MDF). As per the dates on each tag, they are exactly as the Proclamation states, except if it is a Season Choice - (You pick the season you want to hunt. Here is where the Conservation Tags we obtained will be at this year:


2008 Utah Banquets


National Convention Salt Lake City 2/6/08 ? 2/9/08
Species Unit Condition
State Deer Statewide Any Weapon
State Goat Statewide Any Weapon
Buck Deer Henry Mountain Any Weapon


Davis Layton 2/15/08
Species Unit Condition
Bull Elk Monroe Archery
Buck Deer South Slope, Diamond Season Choice
Buck Pronghorn Plateau, Early Any Weapon
Bear South Slope, Vernal/Diamond/Bonanza Open
Anterless Elk Northern Open
Turkey East Canyon Open
Turkey East Canyon Open


Bear River Logan 2/16/08
Species Unit Condition
Bull Elk Cache, South Any Weapon
Bull Elk Cache, North Any Weapon
Bull Moose Cache Open
Anterless Elk Northern Open
Turkey Cache Open
Turkey Cache Open


Cedar City Cedar City 2/23/08
Species Unit Condition
Bull Elk Beaver Any Weapon
Bull Elk Monroe Premium
Buck Deer Paunsaugant Muzzleloader
Buck Pronghorn Plateau, Late Any Weapon
Cougar Southern Open
Anterless Elk Southern Open
Turkey Zion Open
Turkey Zion Open
Turkey Pine Valley Open
Turkey Pine Valley Open
Turkey Pine Valley Open


Utah County Lehi TBA
Species Unit Condition
Bull Elk Wasatch Mountains Any Weapon
Bull Elk Central Mountains, Nebo Muzzlelaoder
Buck Deer Book Cliffs Archery
Buck Pronghorn Plateau, Late Open
Cougar Central Open
Anterless Elk Central Open


Sanpete Ephraim 4/026/08
Species Unit Condition
Bull Elk Central Mountains, Manti Any Weapon
Bull Elk Central Mountains, Manti Muzzleloader
Bull Elk Central Mountains, Manti Archery
Cougar Central Open
Cougar Southeastern Open
Cougar Southern Open
Bear Central Mountains, South Open
Bear Central Mountains, North Open
Anterless Elk Central Open
Anterless Elk Southeastern Open


Salt Lake Salt Lake City 3/29/08
Species Unit Condition
Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder Any Weapon
Bull Elk Wasatch Any Weapon
Buck Deer Filmore, Oak Creek Muzzleloader
Buck Pronghorn Plateau, Early Any Weapon
Bear South Slope, Yellowstone Open
Anterless Elk Northern Open
Anterless Elk Central Open


Wasatch Heber City TBA
Species Unit Condition
Bull Elk South Slope, Diamond Any Weapon
Bull Elk North Slope, 3 Corners Any Weapon
Buck Deer South Slope, Diamond Muzzleloader
Buck Pronghorn Plateau, Early Open
Anterless Elk Northeastern Open
Anterless Elk Central Open


Ogden Ogden 4/19/08
Species Unit Condition
Bull Elk Filmore, Pahvant Premium
Bull Elk Dutton Archery
Buck Deer Paunsaugunt Season Choice
Bull Moose Ogden Open
Rocky Mountain Goat Ogden, Willard Peak Female Only
Cougar Northern Open
Anterless Elk Northern Open


Box Elder Tremonton 5/10/08
Species Unit Condition
Bull Elk Oquirrh, Stansbury Premium
Buck Deer Book Cliffs Muzzleloader
Buck Pronghorn Box Elder, Promotory Any Weapon
Anterless Elk Northern Open


Uinta Basin Vernal 5/03/08
Species Unit Condition
Bull Elk North Slope, 3 Corners Premium
Bull Elk South Slope, Diamond Premium
Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek Muzzleloader
Buck Deer Book Cliffs Season Choice
Buck Deer South Slope, Diamond Season Choice
Buck Pronghorn South Slope, Bonanza-Diamond Any Weapon
Buck Pronghorn North Slope, West Daggett Any Weapon
Cougar Northeastern Open
Anterless Elk Northeastern Open
Anterless Elk Northeastern Open
Anterless Elk Northeastern Open


Tooele Tooele 5/17/08
Species Unit Condition
Bull Elk Oquirrh-Stansbury Any Weapon
Bull Elk Panguitch Lake Archery
Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon Any Weapon
Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon Archery
Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Riverbed Any Weapon
Anterless Elk Central Open
Anterless Elk Northern Open


St. George St. George 6/02/08
Species Unit Condition
Buck Deer Paunsaugunt Season Choice
Cougar Southern Open
Anterless Elk Southern Open


Kanab Kanab TBA
Species Unit Condition
Buck Deer Paunsaugunt Archery
Buck Pronghorn Mt. Dutton, Paunsaugunt Any Weapon
Anterless Elk Southern Open
Turkey Paunsaugunt Open


Call me at 801-643-5015 if you have any questions.

 

[cowslayer]

I guess I'll open the bidding on the Henry's Mountain Deer Tag. I will pay an even $ 5000.00. That's my best offer... going, going, gone to Cowslayer.

;-)

CS

www.VIPoptics.com

"When You Deserve The Very Best"

 

[bowhunt]

WOW!
Let's get all the LE tags bundled into this program.

 

[007]

Are all these tags taken away from the General Limited Draw Units or how did you MDF get these tags?

 

[tuttut2001]

Like any other Conservation Group, we bid and pay for these tags on a three year basis. We then take these tags to our local banquets and auction them off to the highest bidder. We are required to show what we made off of them and then take that money and use it for Conservation Projects in the state of Utah. These projects are things like guzzlers, reseeding after burns, improving critical winter habitat and such. These projects are choosen by working with the DWR conservation officers and biologist, input from our individual members and from the general public at our banquets. This year, the MDF will spend a minimum of $610,000 on these type of projects across the state of Utah.

In addiion to this money going toward projects, a certain percentage of the money raised at each of our banquets is returned to the individual chapters on select projects tht they feel are needed. For example, our Davis County chapter, who is having their 2008 banquet on February 15, has adopted the Henefer-Echo WMA and is planning on working and paying for reseeding that area this Spring because of a smaller fire on it and to improve other areas of it as it is a critical range for Mule Deer.

Please let me know if there are any other questions or if you wish to have more information on MDF or our banuqets. If you go to www.muledeer.org, you can see what others things we are doing to improve Mule Deer and other species.

Daren

 

[inline]

>Are all these tags taken away
>from the General Limited Draw
>Units or how did you
>MDF get these tags?


Yes, they are taken away from the general limited draw along with the hundreds of other tags!

 

[tuttut2001]

Here is how they are determined. If you want more information, please e-mail me at [email protected] and I will forward some information.

R657-41-3. Determining the Number of Conservation and Sportsman Permits.
(1) The number of conservation permits authorized by the Wildlife Board shall be based on:

(a) the species population trend, size, and distribution to protect the long-term health of the population;

(b) the hunting and viewing opportunity for the general public, both short and long term; and

(c) the potential revenue that will support protection and enhancement of the species.

(2) One statewide conservation permit may be authorized for each conservation permit species.

(3) A limited number of area conservation permits may be authorized as follows:

(a) a maximum of 10% of the total permits, assigned to a hunt area or combination of hunt areas, for Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep and desert bighorn sheep;

(b) a maximum of 5% of the permits or eight permits, whichever is less, for any unit or hunt area for the remaining conservation permit species.

(4) The number of conservation and sportsman permits available for use will be determined by the Wildlife Board.

(5) Area conservation permits shall be deducted from the number of public drawing permits.

(6) One sportsman permit shall be authorized for each statewide conservation permit authorized.

(7) All area conservation permits are eligible as multi-year permits except that the division may designate some area conservation permits as single year permits based on the applications received for single year permits.

(8) All statewide permits will be multi-year permits except for a second statewide permit issued for a special event.

 

[elkhunterUT]

That list of tags makes me sick and this is only ONE of the conservation groups auctioning Utah tags away that should go to the general public. (SFW's list will really make you nauseous) The conservation tag gig in Utah has spiraled completely out of control.

I have always felt a FEW conservation tags are good and needed because of the revenue they generate, but where we are at now is COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTROL!!!!

My .02 Cents worth.

Cory

 

[tuttut2001]

Cory,

I use to think the same way as you about these tags. then I spent time as the Sportsmen Advocate on the Forestry, Fire & State Lands board for a few years and saw how the money from General Tags works compared to Conservation Tags.

The money that comes in from General Tag sales (CWMU, LE, General) has to go into the DWR pool and pay for salaries, equipment, and other vital and important items before it goes to actual projects. I understand that and know that people need to be paid for their work. I have no problem with it at all.

The monies generated from the Conservation tags is required that a minimum of 60% go toward projects. I know that, and I can only speak for MDF, around 90% of the money we raise goes to actual "on-the-ground" projects to benefit Critical Winter Range for Mule Deer.

I keep that list of projects and with the Regional Director of this area, sit down with the Federal and State agencies and select the projects for each year.

Daren

 

[proutdoors]

Just to clarify, the convention tags are different than the conservation tags. The convention tags will be drawn next month at the Huntin Expo randomly. The conservation tags go to the highest bidder and are sold at conservation group banquets. The first I know of is UBA's banquet coming up Feb 2nd where two conservation elk tags will be auctioned.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.

 

[tuttut2001]

Here is the list of projects that the Mule Deer Foundation is funding for this year: Total Funding - Mule Deer Foundation 82051 acres & $601,106.73


Northern Wasatch Front Restoration Project $39,820.00
Ibapah Sagebrush Improvement - Year 1 $13,000.00
Sage Valley / Vernon Lop and Scatter Project $30,000.00
Black Hills WMA Lop and Scatter $23,250.00
Wasatch Front Guzzler Replacement $1,580.00
Salt Creek Wildfire Rehabilitation - DWR Lands $50,000.00
Salt Creek Wildfire Rehabilitation - BLM lands $50,000.00

South Beaver Vegetation Enhancment Project Year 3 $10,000.00
South Beaver SITLA Vegetation Enhancement $10,000.00
Four Mile/ Eight Mile Fuels Reduction $10,000.00
Alton/ Mill Creek Sagebrush Restoration - Year 3 $10,000.00
Lower Buckskin Telephone Wash Sagebrush Restoration Year 2 $65,516.87
Milford Flat Beaver County Wildlife Seed Augmentation $30,000.00
Paradise Fire Rehabilitation $25,000.00
Greenville Bench- Poor Man $10,000.00
Greenville Bench- Yardley $5,000.00


Pack Creek $9,000.00
West Coal Creek $15,000.00
Dugout Flat Chaining Maintenance Phase I $3,000.00
Bullfrog Creek Chaining Maintenance Phase I $3,000.00
Range Creek $2,250.00

Saddle Creek Aspen / Sagebrush Steppe Treatment 4000 $35,000.00
Grass Valley Ranch $13,000.00
Millville Face Wildlife Management Area $14,000.00
Bitterbrush Seedling Project FY08 $5,714.86
Millville WMA Fire Rehabilitation $5,900.00
Dairy Valley Fire Rehabilitation - Winecup $21,850.00


Blue Knoll Phase II $18,250.00
Goslin Mountain Phase II Lop and Scatter $21,975.00
Neola North Fire Rehabilitation Seed Supplement $50,000.00

 

[rock5150]

YOU SAID IT. THESE GROUPS DO A LOT OF GOOD I AGREE. BUT IS IT WOUTH ALL OF THIS? DOES ANY BODY KNOW HOW MANY TOTAL -CON- TAGS ARE GIVEN TO ALL THESES GROUPS?

ROCK5150

 

[elkhunterUT]

Daren,
I definitely appreciate your explanation and the work that you do with MDF, and I honestly do believe a FEW auction tags are a good thing to raise money, but I believe it has gotten severely out of hand with the total # of auction tags Utah allows to not just your conservation organization, but many others. By the way, I am a supporter of many of the conservation orgs.

I believe you can generate as more or as much money than the current system does by following simple "supply and demand" principles and possibly incorporating some other methods without taking the obscene # of tags away from the general public that currently goes on in Utah. With auction tags specifically, I believe if there were much fewer, highly valued auction tags offered, they would bring in a much higher price tag and offset losses suffered by reducing the total # of auction tags available. Utah could also go the raffle route similar to other states and offer a few tags to everyone, not just the extremely rich, and make a law change to allow that revenue to be used on actual "on-the-ground" projects.

I believe there are many creative ways to generate the same amount or more money than is currently generated through the current conservation/auction tag system in Utah without screwing over the general public as badly as they are today.

Thanks again for your work and your organization. I am not opposed to money being made on tags to further help our wildlife and preserve our sport, just opposed to the current system as it is implemented and the total # of tags.

Cory

 

[elkhunterUT]

Rock,
In 2007, there were 358 total conservation tags given to all of the orgs. I am not sure on the 2008 total # yet, but will look for it.

All of the other Western states don't even come close to the # of conservation/auction tags Utah gives out, yet they have found creative ways to raise money and fund programs necessary for wildlife conservation.

Cory

 

[proutdoors]

Actually Cory, the other western states COMBINED don't equal the amount spent on conservation projects as Utah does. The other states are now looking at how they can get in the game like here in Utah. Utah has spent more in a year on habitat than Wyoming has in 5 years total. All while keeping the cost down for the 'working man' and letting a few, yes a FEW, rich hunters pay for several hundred thousand acres to be improved for the benefit of ALL wildlife/hunters in Utah.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.

 

[DallanC]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-14-08 AT 03:23PM (MST)[p]Congratulations to you rich SOB's that can buy tags and hunt ever year.


-DallanC

 

[tuttut2001]

The number of tags allowed to be bid on by the Conservation organizations is done in a three year cycle. the tags that all the organizations had last year is the same as what we have this year and the next. The will go back to a bidding process after that for another three years.

I have a list of all the tags that were awarded to each of the Conservation groups if you wish to see it or you can go to www.wildlife.utah.gov and look it up on the Big Game page under Conservation Program.

You can also see what groups are spending money and what projects they are spending it on.

I like to use the spreadsheet because it keeps each organization in check. a few groups like to spend a $1000 here and a $1000 there and then take the total money given to a certain project by all the other groups overall as their own. I

I don't do that. If I say that MDf is spending over $600,000 on Utah project on public ground, then that is what we are actually spending, not what the entire Conservation groups as a total are spending.

Take care and thanks for your desire to know more. I feel like this money going to these projects is hard earned by all of us and I make sure not one bit is wasted or abused.

Daren

 

[dkpeay]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-15-08 AT 06:45AM (MST)[p]A couple of points.

Two years ago, the Utah voters were asked to help fund wildlife conservation with a 1/16 of once cent sales tax. Inspite of a million dollar PR campaign to promote it, the Utah voters voted NO. So, if not us, then who ?

Colorado and Arizona have lottery tickets for conservation, Wyoming has tremendous Oil and Gas royalties, each state gets to try.

For anyone who wants, go up to the Legislature and try and get more money for wildlife, when kids dont' have food, schools are over crowded, highways are log jammed, and prisoners get let out of prison early becuase of lack of room.

Point Number Two, the auction tags are fixed at 5% of the total. So, over teh past 12 years, because of large investmetns, herds have grown, so the number of tags for auction 5% have grown, and so have the number of tags to the public 95%.

IN the state of Utah last year, over 300,000 acres of federal lands were treated and made a lot more productive for deer and elk. Idaho treated around 2,000 acres. Colorado about the same. Utah also leads the nation in transplanting bighorns, moose, mt. Goats, Bison, Wild Turkey and antelope, establishing new herds and thus more tags. These transplant programs are very expensive, and are funded almost exclusively via acution permit funds.

Don

 

[gdog]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-15-08 AT 07:37AM (MST)[p]>The monies generated from the Conservation
>tags is required that a
>minimum of 60% go toward
>projects. I know that,
>and I can only speak
>for MDF, around 90% of
>the money we raise goes
>to actual "on-the-ground" projects to
>benefit Critical Winter Range for
>Mule Deer.

Don...can SFW say the same? What % of total money raised went back into actual projects last year, including the costs for the Expo?

Be interesting to see how efficient each conservation group is with their fund raising. I don't mind the tags being used for fund raising, but each group should be striving to put as much back into the projects then just the 60% mark and should be required to post such data for public review.

 

[yak4fish]

Cory wrote:
>
>I believe you can generate as
>more or as much money
>than the current system does
>by following simple "supply and
>demand" principles and possibly incorporating
>some other methods without taking
>the obscene # of tags
>away from the general public
>that currently goes on in
>Utah. With auction tags
>specifically, I believe if there
>were much fewer, highly valued
>auction tags offered, they would
>bring in a much higher
>price tag and offset losses
>suffered by reducing the total
># of auction tags available.
> Utah could also go
>the raffle route similar to
>other states and offer a
>few tags to everyone, not
>just the extremely rich, and
>make a law change to
>allow that revenue to be
>used on actual "on-the-ground" projects.

>Cory

I for one like the raffle idea it gives
everyone a shot at one of these great tags.
I'm sure it would generate a lot of donations
from people who would not normally donate at
all. I would like to see half the auction tags
raffled.

Allen

 

[gdog]

++1

 

[tuttut2001]

I use to think that the raffle idea was the way to go. The problem with the raffling the tags is that even though you might be able to make the same amount of money in a raffle as the Conservation groups do through their individual banquets, the money would then be put into the General Fund. this General Fund can be used to fund anything the legislation wants adn we all know that Wildlife will take a back seat unfortunately to everything else. If it is put into a Resticted Fund, then a smaller portion of the money will actually go to "on the ground" wildlife funding and more will have to go to cover over-head, operations and other areas.

With the Conservation groups, it is legally governed and protected to ensure that a larger portion of the actual funding will go to actual wildlife projects.

The best thing is for everyone to join a Conservation group or two, of their choice and then assist in bring funding and "sweat equity" in to these projects and most importantly, make sure that the money from these tags is being used in the best manner to protect and improve wildlife by making sure that each group makes an accounting of the money trusted to them. From a MDF point of view, I take a project board to each banquet and tradeshow (it will be at the Western Hunting & Conservation Expo the week of February 6-9 a the Salt Palace)that shows the amount of money that we are spending on projects in Utah and I break it down by region with acres and money showing.

Most people are only interested in obtaining a permit and going hunting. That won't improve anything except their freezer and their walls. We can't look at this from a "now" point of view. We need to look ahead 5, 10, 20, & 50 years from now and say what am I doing now to ensure that those who come after will be better off and have opportunities as well.

Take care and thanks for making wildlife important enough to ask the questions and I hope to see you at a MDF banquet or expo in the near future.

Daren Tuttle

 

[Smokepole]

Thank you conservation groups such as MDF (Darren) and SFW (Don), etc. The funds you have raised through conservation/convention tags and then put those funds on the ground has increased the huntable LE and OIL tags significantly over the last 10+ years. Whithout your efforts, where would we be right now and how many fewer LE and OIL permits would we all be fighting over to draw. I belong too and support these groups as best I can. I may never buy or draw one of these permits but, it is the right thing to do right now (until there is a better way to get the needed funds) for Utahs Wildlife. Just think what could be done if every hunter belonged too and supported, instead of just expected and take.

Now let's get the general mule deer hunts to where it should be, which I know is high on the priority list with many groups.

Thanks,

Smokepole

 

[yak4fish]

What if the conservation groups raffled the tags? Would the money generated have to go into the general fund if this were done? It seems this would be a great way to get more hunters aware of these groups and what they do, maybe even join and donate time and money.

Allen

 

[tuttut2001]

We tried raffling them off at our banquets and we don't make enough money to pay for the actual tag value. We cna make more for wildlife by auctioning the off.

If more people would come to the banquets and "put their money" toward these type of things, we could do more of it.

As it is right now, we take most of the anterless tags and raffle them at our banquets for the youth. We feel that is a good way to get more of the youth on these type of hunts and have those type of experiences. We can usually get a guide and/or outfitter to step up and volunteer to have these youth hunt on their properies with their guides for free.

 

[llamapacker]

The whole conservation tag issue is one of good intention gone awry. First, let me say that I generally support the mission of the MDF, RMEF, etc. And by that I mean habitat improvement, research, and sound management of huntable wildlife populations.

I don't deny this takes money - lots of it. Auctioning conservation tags is a quick money fix, with long term ramifications that are mostly bad. Nearly every decision the DWR now makes on wildlife management is keyed to how to maximize return on conservation (auction) tags. Herd ratios are kept artificially skewed (elk) to drive tag prices higher, for example. Entire segments of the population are disenfranchised and develop little interest in the DWR and wildlife in general.

It was mentioned that there are different financial treatments of raffle tag proceeds than auction proceeds. Work with the state government to change the distribution of funds, don't just say we are stuck with it, and therefore have to have more auction tags "for the benefit of wildlife."
Again, I don't underestimate the political hurdles. Hence, my accusation that SFW and others have sold out most sportsmen for a quick and easy money fix. Good intentions are having unintended consequences. And the American hunting heritage will be irreparably harmed if this tag allocation spreads beyond Utah.

Bill

 

[elkhunterUT]

Excellent post Bill-I completely agree with you.

No one who knows anything would argue the fact that Utah has unique habitat and conservation needs that require money to handle appropriately. But I will argue that there are other ways to raise that necessary money that are more of a "win-win" for everyone involved. The way funds are distributed is a poor excuse to not change the current system. Those types of things can be changed and were changed to benefit the current conservation/auction system, so why can't they be changed again for a raffle type system or some other idea to ensure funds hit the ground on real projects for habitat, wildlife, etc?

 

[tuttut2001]

I wish more of the Hunters and Sportsmen in Utah were like you guys. If more people were willing to put their money where their mouths are and actually donate to Wildlife projects and organizations working on wildlife projects, then we wouldn't necessarily need a tag type program or at least not as it is today. Even if they just put some "sweat equity" into wildlife conservation instead of walking the hills and sweating on opening morning.

Unfortuneately, most people though try to get something for nothing and that is a big problem. Most people just want to gripe about "how it use to be" instead os working towards "how it could be".

I will continue to work at better projects, programs and ways to improve Mule Deer, and with it other wildlife as well. So will many others.

When an organization like MDF or RMEF or SFW asks for your help working on a project or to attend a banquet or even to donate money towards a worthwhile project or chapter, I would hope that we would handle it in a couple of ways:

1. Thank the person for what they are doing.
2. Give what you can, in the manner that won't hurt you or your family financially. (I know how it is, sometimes all you can do is say thanks)
3. Make sure you get an accounting as to where that money is going.
4. Better yet, become part of the group or project and see your money work as you do.

That is how we are going to make improvements!!!!

Take care.

Daren Tuttle

 

[proutdoors]

"When an organization like MDF or RMEF or SFW asks for your help working on a project or to attend a banquet or even to donate money towards a worthwhile project or chapter, I would hope that we would handle it in a couple of ways:

1. Thank the person for what they are doing.
2. Give what you can, in the manner that won't hurt you or your family financially. (I know how it is, sometimes all you can do is say thanks)
3. Make sure you get an accounting as to where that money is going.
4. Better yet, become part of the group or project and see your money work as you do.

That is how we are going to make improvements!!!!"

Amen! Well said and excellent advice.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.

 

[wileywapati]

RE: How come

OK Utah's subsidy tags are the model all other western states are looking at following. Great good for them. I certainly hope that the citizens in these states are prepared to give up 5% of their hunting opportunities. I also hope that the citizens in these states can get used to 5 day mule deer hunts in many area's of their states because that is how much improvement the subsidy tag system in Utah has provided. I also hope that the citizens of the other western states have the opportunity to hunt a mature bull elk because a 400 inch bull will bring more for a subsidy tag than a 320 bull surely will.
If I am very lucky my 12 year old son will eventually get to hunt one in Utah by the time he is 55 or 60.

While we are doing so well with the subsidy tags why don't we go ahead and issue 200 more for a convention that you must attend to apply for. Oh yeah best part is that several of our honorable brave and courageous Americans that happen to be overseas making sure a fanatic with a towel on his head doesns't fly an airplane through another high rise can't apply unless they can be there.

How does this sound to ya Montana?? How about it Nevada??
Idaho, Wyoming and New Mexico are already well on their way.
Just think Colorado after a few years under this type of management plan you could have mule deer and elk hunting opportunities like we do here in Utah.

 

[dieseldog]

RE: How come

Having that many tags taken out of the draw is a joke. What if the dwr had a mandatory $100 donation to a conservation group that was tax deductible when you submit your application. That would generate alot of money for these groups to and also put these tags back in the draw and improve draw odds dramatically. It is just plain sickening to see guys with big cash (ex: Skoronski) able to hunt every year. Get in the regular draw with the rest of us RICH BOY!! Just my .02

 

[JakeH]

RE: How come

What a bunch of CRY BABYS, it really isnt that bad, 5% isnt that much, compared to what we are getting back. And in the long run I bet you will see much improved habitat that will suport more animals witch means more tags will be given. I saw a great artical in Eastmans a month or two ago, I think it was the director of the wild sheep federation, he was exsplaining how in cali. that the state didnt have enough funding to explore alot of there habitat and find out how many sheep were in some of the areas. He said that with the money they rased on a couple of auction hunts they were able to do some fly overs and found out that they had a much larger herd than they previously thought, the resaults of this was they opened up a few new units and offered an addtinal 16 tags, I think it was 16 Im not sure but it was something like that. They had almost doubled the number of sheep tags in a few year period off of the auction tags that they had sold. Sounds to me like there are a bunch of guys that are selfish and only want to think of themselves. Wake Up people this is accually a good thing.

I want to Thank You Mr. Tuttle for the service you have done, and thank you for comeing on here and shareing your veiw of things.




Jake H. MM Member since 1999.

 

[hicountrymac]

RE: How come

First of all Conservation is great and thanks to all who participate and help the cause. However when you have so many tags taken from the public, when it's already so hard for a guy to draw a good tag and give them to the rich man it just does't seem right. I'm a non-res. and will only get to read about and look at pictures of Utahs awesome elk and I'm o.k. with that but it just doesn't seem right that the residents (or non-res) should have the massive odds stacked even more against them because the other guy is loaded. I would much rather see somebody win a raffle than buy at auction. I love reading the stories about somebody getting lucky drawing a tag and having a great DIY hunt. Some auction tags may be necessary but I believe and it's just my opinion that there are too many in Utah. If there were less tags available for auction, the rich guys who can afford them would pay more and more working guys or ladies would be inclined to donate via raffle. I'm not knocking conservation or you guys that are donating your time and effort for a great cause. I just think too much rich mans money is not the answer.

 

[tuttut2001]

RE: How come

I want to thank everyone who has weighed in on this subject. The more people get talking and sharing ideas the better off we are. We begin to understand how others feel and what issues and concerns there are out there. As long as it doesn't get person (and I don't feel it has) the type of communication is good.

There isn't one program, idea or policy that is going to fix everything, in every state. That balance of harmony is almost an impossible thing to achieve. The best we can do is keep trying to make things better for wildlife and when a mistake is made, go on and don't make it again.

I spend alot of time in meetings about wildife, listening to the general public express their concerns and comments, read alot of articles and reports on the state of wildife (especially Mule Deer) and the conclusion I have come up with is that:

There are alot of ideas on how to fix the problems and we aren't going to please everyone.

One thing I wanted to bring up that might be incorrectly stated is I went back and checked on those individuals who bid and won tags from the Mule Deer Foundation last year at our local banquets. I know pretty much each of these individuals because of how long I have been doing this and my relationships with them or their families. Of these individuals, 86% of them are like you and me. They saved up for a time period or took a bonus or a tax return and then used that money to bid on a tag. They weren't rich or even close. I know, I am in the same boat. I am still saving up for a chance at a tag as well. I also know that the majority of these people did not use an outfitter with their tag. They did a DIY hunt with family and friends.

I also know a couple of these "rich" boys who actually donated their winning tags back to a youth or challenged individuals to use.

Does it make me upset to see someone save up a few years and then take a nice tag or even one of the "rich" boys come in and take a tag?? Not at all. I get excited to see them have that opportunity but, most importantly, I see that for that one tag, I can use the monies and positively affect many more animals in their habitat, population and genetics.

I look at it as that one tag and its associated price, no matter who got it, made it possible for many more people to view, hunt, harvest, research, and enjoy many more animals and for many more years.

Just my opinion.

Daren Tuttle

 

[thebuckstopshere]

RE: How come

If I read the rule you posted right Darren, its says that there will never be more than 10% of any species' tags given to the conservation groups, and more realistically never more than 5% on most species.

Ive never seen Utahns get so riled up about giving 10%!

I for one appreciate what these groups do. I enjoy hunting, and I also enjoy seeing big deer. Keep up the good work.

 

[ktc]

RE: How come

tut,

I have a question for you. On another thread several individuals gave what they could to help feed Colorado mule deer. Colorado mule deer seems it is where it could be and now is where it used to be. Gunnison Basin is on my must do list. I have some mule deer goals to reach. Feeding the mule deer during a hard and cold winter in the best mule deer state is important to me and many others.

Anyway, here is the question, you have taken time to summons the help of sportsman to yours and other causes. Why have there been no posts from you or fishon on the Help Save Colorado Mule Deer thread letting people know that MDF has supported the feeding efforts?

I belong to SFW. My contributions are small, but I try to be active in at least one group because I do not feel it is my right to take away all the time, but rather give something back.

 

[tuttut2001]

RE: How come

I appreciate your question about why myself and/or "Fishon" have not spoken about or posted to the Colorado Deer thread. I can answer that in a couple of statements.

1. Did not see the thread.
2. Fishon is only a Consultant with MDF now and only deals with the Conservation Tags.
3. Unfortunately, I have my hands full enough with Utah Mule Deer issues and let the Colorado State Chairman and the local Regional Director and membership deal with with Colorado. My employer and family would kill me if I took on any more work.

there are some good articles in the past few months of the MDF magazine on projects going on in all the Western United States in improving the habitat, restoring burned or destroyed areas and assisting Mule Deer when needed. You can read them at www.muledeer.org or by becoming a member and having your magazine delivered to your mail box every other month.

Daren

 

[Deerlove]

RE: How come

KTC I too would like to see some additional help with funds to Co. I DONT want to see are convention monies got out of state. Were giving up the tags we (state of Utah) should reap the rewards.

 

[tuttut2001]

RE: How come

Deerlove,

I can tell you that from a MDF standpoint, if the money is made in Utah it stays in Utah. If it is made in Colorado, it stays in Colorado.

I would have a hard time looking someone in the eyes and tell them that their hard-earned money was going somewhere else to improve conditions for an area that is not near them, especially another state. We make sure that does not happen.

Daren

 

[ktc]

RE: How come

Deerlove,

I understand your concerns and your point is well taken.

tut,

I asked the question, not from a convention standpoint, rather a MDF standpoint. Is the MDF convention a national one or a local one at the Salt Palace? I guess I seen a MDF guy posting here, and wondered about the other thread. I guess I was looking at MDF as a national type org rather than a Utah specific one? I do not understand how MDF works, so I asked the question. I hate to see a deer/wildlife problem in Colorado, Utah, or anywhere else.

On a different subject, I hear ramblings of Utah deer changes. Can you shed any light on what is taking place with Utah deer? Not specific habitat projects, but anything major from a management standpoint?

 

[thebuckstopshere]

RE: How come

Ramblings is the right term. Usually if something were likely to happen you hear rumblings, but in this case, it may just be ramblings (i.e. windbags sounding off).

I understand it was proposed at one (maybe more) RAC for the general rifle deer hunt to move towards smaller units than the five units currently utilized. i also understand from reading on here, that the current deer management plan in Utah expires soon - 2008 - and a new deer management plan would be the likely source of any major changes to the Utah deer hunts.

If any of this is incorrect, let me know. I am as interested as any.

 

[tuttut2001]

RE: How come

MDF is a National Organization with our corporate offices here in Salt Lake City, Utah. We have Regional Directors who cover the United States, inlcuding Alaska. We have local chpaters spread through most Western states and into the Midwest (mostly where Mule Deer and Blacktail Deer live. We also have State Chairs who oversee the local chapters and assist the Regional Directors in their work.

For more information, go to www.muledeer.org and review the different goals, missions and projects.

To find out what is going on with Utah Deer, I would recommend contacting our Regional Director - Mike Laughter. His contact information is on the website. He is an active participant on the Utah Mule Deer Working Group, especially in Northern Utah.

Daren

 

[dkpeay]

guys,

Those opposed, you have lots of ideas to get this money. what are they, and when are you going to get them done? Talk is cheap.

Point Number Two. 90% of the auction tag money hits the Ground. And, the conservation groups put a whole bunch more than the 10% taken for administrtation and marketing fees.

So, in reality, about 150% of the tag money hits the ground, and with 3 or 4 to one match that SFW has been able to obtain from the Utah Legislature and other sources, 500% of the tag money hits the ground, funds transplants, acquires winter range instead of being sold.

For the opponents of the Utah CP program, when you can find $15 Million cold hard cash to hit the ground every year to replace the program, give me a call 801-635-5576 and i will lead the charge to change the program. till then money talks and BS walks

Don Peay

 

[ktc]

To make another point. Can anyone complaining say that there are not more turkeys, elk, goats, sheep, bison, and moose than 20 years ago? I remember debating if hunting was worth it 20 years ago. It sucked bad. I guess my point is, if giving up the tags will make the hunting better then why not? I was old enough to hunt when it was that bad. Seems like now we argue about things being too good. I would rather argue about that than how bad it sucks.

I did leave deer off the list on purpose. My hope is that this convention money can make the deer hunting something worth arguing about in the future. Not how bad it is, but why the deer are too big just like the elk! My advice is go to the show, buy some stuff, apply for the tags and enjoy it. It is a good show.

Don, your efforts have made a difference in my eyes.

 

[UTodd]

I found this thread pretty interesting and thought I would chime in on some ways you might utilize some of your most valuable ?natural resources?- hunters themselves. Darren has mentioned several times the need to donate our sweat equity to improve the cause. While I am not the worlds greatest volunteer I have organized work groups for Habitat for Humanity, MS Walks, Christmas Box House to name a few and have seen the power of volunteerism first hand. For wildlife, my volunteer efforts have come through 8 years as a Dedicated Hunter. I have enjoyed all of the projects for the most part and felt like I was giving back to the sport I love- and getting a sweet tag to boot.

Why do we not utilize this resource more effectively? All of the projects that Darren listed are perfect for a group like Dedicated Hunters and that labor is FREE. My humble suggestion is this:

? Double the amount of Dedicated Hunters to 20,000. You then double your work force and save on labor costs for your projects.
? Increase Dedicated Hunter Fees. I for one would still pay more for a DH tag so there is more $ from the sale of licenses.
? In exchange for this extra work and extra money- throw a few of those conservation tags into a Dedicated Hunter only draw and increase each DH?s odds by 1 point for each additional 10 documented hours of volunteer time donated.

To me groups like the Dedicated Hunter group are part of the solution to Utah?s deer rebound. I wish there were 96,000 Dedicated Hunters not just 10,000. The group is more serious than your average hunter- they work harder and contribute more. The power of the masses could far outweigh the power of a handful of rich guys.

Just some of my ideas but you asked for them- so you got em.

 

[ZR1]

What day do you have to put in for the hunts by?

 

[dkpeay]

YOu can apply for the 200 Expo tags anytime between now and Feb. 9. Then, you must validate in person at the Expo before Sat. at 5 pm.

Expo runs Weds, thurs, friday and saturday.

check out exact times at wwww.huntexpo.com

 

[elkhunterUT]

Don,
I assume the drawing is held Saturday evening then? When will the results be posted-Sunday or Monday?