Why outside spread?

A

ASUCoues

Active Member
Messages
174
so my question is, why do mule deer hunters talk so much about outside spread when inside spread is what gets counted in scoring?

is it not possible for a buck to hit the coveted 30" mark for outside spread but be < 25" inside?

also, isn't the true number 180"? my dad has a buck my grandpa shot back in the 60's. It is right around 180" but only has an 18" inside spread. Wouldn't a mule deer hunter be happier with a 180" narrow buck than a 160" buck that is 30" outside?
 
That's the great thing about mule deer. There are so many different ways for a rack to look great.

Mark
 
Of course, you ask very good questions. One major reason is that it's simply easier (and more impressive) to measure the outside spread than to understand all of the B&C requirements and talk about inside.

In my own mind, mass is what matters. I've taken 3 typicals that net over 200 (love them all), but what I look for first is how heavy the antlers are. I look at the rest, but fork depth and tine length just aren't as exciting as mass! Family man is right, or whoever said, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".
 
Yep, seems like the average joe hunters all want to kill a 30" buck.
They wouldn't care less if it were crab clawed or not, as long as it was 30".

For me, it's mass and deep forks.

I wouldn't care if it's only 24"....give me depth amd mass.






Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"
 
I have seen some georgeous bucks that were narrow and tall. In fact the narrow and tall bucks are usually good looking.

I have seen some bucks that were super wide but look like someone smashed their antlers. Width just does not do it for me. Remember that 39 1/2 inch buck pulled out of the Henries a few years ago? I thought the rack was ugly compared to other bucks that were pulled out of that range that year. But which one do you hear about? That's right, the wide one.

The best bucks are those that pull off that classic Western look. Heighth, decent width, massssss, roman nose, nice crown of black hair on top of the noggin, sweet forks (which wide bucks often lack), thick 3" eye guards. You guys know the bucks I'm talking about.

Width? That's for the same guys that need tall trucks to justify or make up for something else.

"One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 
Why do guys talk about outside spread? Very simply because when you view a buck (in the wild or in your living room) your mind doesn't "see" the inside spread, it sees the outside spread.

All things being EQUAL (mass, height, etc), 99% of the hunters when viewing a deer on the hoof, will take the widest one.

However, I am also a mass kind of guy. Give me a spindly 30" buck and a massive 25 inch buck (both outside spread), and I will take the mass every time.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Personally I'd sooner shoot a 24" muley with good mass and tine depth than a 32" muley with crab claws.

Comes down to personal preference.

As far as why? Probably because its the largest measurement on the animal and sounds more impressive. Probably somthing the guiding industry has come up with.

Same with "squaring" blackbears, just trying to squeeze all the inches they can out of an animal.
 
I look at this way. Why inside spread? If the scoring system didn't exist you wouldn't give a rats about inside. But the system does exist. So it matters in terms of score. The system basically penelizes a buck for growing wide if he doesn't have super long main beams. But if he goes up he gets all the inches. Don't read me wrong but the system is not perfect but it is what we have. Gross vs Net I personally think nets are for fish. Heavy horned bucks hold a spot in my heart but a super wide one is just as unique. Trophy should always be measured by the shooter not someone else. If your looking at inside spread in the field then you are probably more interested in score than anything else on the hunt. I say shoot the one that floats your boat and enjoy your trophy. I think too much emphisis has been put on score and it hurts our herds.

Just an opinion since I just love deer.
 
I agree DMC. I like a nice mature buck with character. Like the white faced 22 in wide 3x3 I shot last year. 16 inch g-2's, nice eye guards and missing 1/3 of one ear. He was a big bodied buck and I was more than tickled to get him. Would he score worth beans? Nope, im sure there are lots of young 4x4's that would score better. I shot him the first 30 min of rifle season, he was only the second muley buck I had looked over and I never regretted it one bit.
ismith

45f82e4d30de4f30.jpg
 
I agree with all you guys.....I love a nice mature mule deer rack in all configurations. But for me, a nice wide typical buck with great forks and long main beams is the epitome of a trophy muley. Classic........those kind of deer take my breath away.
 
30" was all I used to care about, now it is mass and forks. You ask for width and you will get outside from me unless you specifically as for inside. I grew up measuring outside only. Way back what was 180? Now I know exactly what 180 is and how to get there. Just haven't done it....yet.;-)
 
Really when it boils down to it, the B&C scoring system falls short decribing really big deer. It is designed for some so-called perfection, and nature could care less about perfection. A doe doesn't look at a big mature buck and say, 'damn, if he just had a longer G2 on his weak side'. The fact is there are a ton of big monster muleys out there that don't score worth crap. Doesn't mean they weren't the king of the mountain because they had 'crab claw' fronts. The trophy should be in the eye of the beholder. If you like them wide, if you like them heavy, if you like them tall, then that is all that really matters don't it? Who cares what someone else likes. My biggest buck has an outside spread of 30 inches but his inside spread is just over 20. I killed a monster last year that had an outside spread of 18 but he was 24 inches tall and had huge forks. Sometimes, you've just got to throw the whole idea of score out the window and kill a buck for the simple reason that you like the looks of him.
 
B&C scoring really shortchanges heavy bucks. Volume is proportional to the square of the diameter integrated over the whole length. B&C just gives 8 circumfernce measureents. A heavy buck could have much more antler mass and score much less. Rewarding symmetry is a value call, but being cheated in mass is just wrong.
 
Beauty of a scoring system is that if it scores well it almost always has some redeeming quality.

I for one also like the heavy dark horns and deep forks, but, I wont pass up a wide spindly 180" buck either.
 
I too have a weak spot for dark mass, however a mature buck with any antler configuration is in serious trouble in my woods.
 
Elmer, thanks for the calculus lesson. Don't ya think that blew right through the ear holes of about 95% of the retards on this site? Funny....

I always wondered about this 30 inch buck stuff. Now I know why. Most were talking about outside spread. Reminds me of someone talking about an elk shed that had a 13 inch base (but was only 41 inches on the main beam).

Proof that honesty comes in many different shades of gray...
 
Well here is a buck from a few yrs ago that is a great example. He doesn't score for crap for obvious reasons. But I shot him with a muzzy real close and is my widest buck to date. I would shoot this buck everytime in the unit he came out of. To me a trophy but to the scoreing crowd a real disapointment. He is 32" wide at his g4 and has a 29" inside spread. If I said I had a 29" inside spread buck does that make him better than a 32" wide buck? Both ways of stating his width are true. I grew up talking outside width so thats what I say.

Officemuzzy.jpg


Now here is another example. This buck scores better than the 32" buck. He is only a 3pt. He has 27.5 width at his g3 and has a 20.5 inside spread. He scores well for just a 3 pt. But to me just a good buck. The largest 3 pt I have ever shot to date. I have shot lots of deer with a bow and some that score better than this one. So to me just another good buck.

IMG_0517.jpg


So the 27.5" 3pt scores better than the 32" 4x5 so to some I should always shoot the 3pt. I would most likely let the 27.5" 3 pt walk next time but I will not let the 32" 4x5 walk. Just examples from my small colection of why the scoring system doesn't mean that much to me other than a general referance point. My point is shoot what you want and who cares what anyone else thinks about it.
 
Personally if I see a worthy buck I pull the trigger. Sometimes it might be boxy and heavy or wide and willowy. Most of us will never have a buck in B&C or Pope & Young so whatever you like to look at on the wall everyday is a good buck. As far as outside spread goes those kickers give you bragging rights. Non-typical bucks make me happy.

Post script: It's been a few years since I pulled the trigger but that's Ok too!

RUS
 
How about saying it this way, a 41% increase in circumference across the board is like a 100% increase in length across the board for total anther material? Circumference measurements of a typical B&C buck only make up about 20% of the total score. Making thm 50% larger only adds 10% to the score.
 
that 3 pt has amazing main beams!my biggest buck to date is 23 1/2"inside, 26 outside.i get really excited over a buck with mass, deep forks, and symetry.for some reason it bothers me when a buck is measured from cheater to cheater outside.no disrespect meant maybe its cause i havent shot one to measure like that yet.trophies are definitely in the eye of the beholder.
 
goes for women too. . .


"If you like them wide, if you like them heavy, if you like them tall, then that is all that really matters don't it?"

BCBOY -
 
>goes for women too. . .
>
>"If you like them wide, if
>you like them heavy, if
>you like them tall, then
>that is all that really
>matters don't it?"

BCBOY


There's that, then again, it's nice if they fit through the camper door.lol. If i ever shot a buck with a rack of horns that couldn't fit through, i'll put her in back and it could ride up front with me.

joey
 
Sometimes it would be cool if you could their rack up front but their head in the back. . . LOL
 
This thread is getting outa hand and i'm partly responcible. LOL

I'm surprised nobody commented on the below statement. What's this all about?

AspenAdventures "RE: Why outside spread?"
"Width? That's for the same guys that need tall trucks to justify or make up for something else."


I admitt that there have been some great hunts where a 30" standard was at least, verbally expressed as the minimum acceptable buck. Also, my Chevy 3/4 ton 4x4 has a 2-3" lift. I like the looks of both 30"+ bucks and my truck.

So am i or others who do or feel the same, supposed to feel hidden repressions that we've have been short changed in the male gender parts department? LOL! That's pretty good one! LOL!

Wide, high, heavy, hopefully all three... doesn't really matter. If "you" like the buck, take em!
.
 
There is nothing more breath taking than seeing a WIDE muley buck(outside spread). Inside spread maybe what scores but if your hunting bucks for score than you already have lost it.
 
I like everyone's comments on this topic. It is a topic that prevails in all trophy talk. I'd like to say that it's not always about width, depth, lenght etc. I think it's about what you want, you as the hunter. Not what everyone else talks about.

My question along with this is why is it all about the score? I believe it's about what you want and like...

To each his own.... Heigth, Mass, Lenght, all are good, more importantly Are you going to be happy with that animal, that's what matters most.
 
What all you net score/gross score aficionados don't realize, is that way back when.. when the width measurment got started, out here in the west,
most of the ol'hunters were not hung up on all this B&C crap, In fact they could give a rats a$$ about that. They wanted meat & a bigger buck meant more grub.

I'd wager that if you asked gramps if that big'ol buck he shot, way back when, off the Kiabab was a 200" buck,
he'd look at you like you were queer.
It was only more recently that uncle Ted in California called
& wanted to know how wide the buck was that they put a quick tape on it in order to tell em a width.

Back then a "big 'ol buck"
said it all.

I'd guess many from that era would roll their eyes at the way fellers here throw numbers around. :7
 
i could be wrong but i think the wider the rack the more intimidating it is to other bucks,also better for fighting,and more impressive to the does
 
So can I tellthe chicks that I drive a little old stock Toyota PU because I am confident, not because I am too cheap to buy more gas and pay for a new truck?
 
E. Fudd, Yep, that's it. Once word gets around, the girls will take one look at your rig and be all over you! lol!

Actually i've heard of this type of typecasting before but i thought it was used by the police and such. I never dreamed that a dude was figuring the size of a guy's johnson by the width of the set of horns he brings in from deer camp. LOL!
 
>i could be wrong but i
>think the wider the rack
>the more intimidating it is
>to other bucks,also better for
>fighting,and more impressive to the
>does

Sometimes if it's to wide it can intimidate the does as well...:)


horsepoop.gif
 
Why outside spread? Well you wouldn't measure your johnson when you get out of a cold pool would you? Not a very representative number. :)

A friend used to say, "it may not be very big around but it's reeeaal short!".



"I was in the pool!"
 
One of the best looking
Mule Deer bucks I have
seen only had a 26 inch
outside spread, but netted
202 b&c, I like the narrow
tall and heavy bucks a little
more, Just like elk, I would
rather kill a 40 inch outside
350 bull than a 54 inch 350
bull.

Just my 2 cents!
 
Guys, i don't think anybody here is saying that a tall, heavy buck isn't a great trophy. I think we can all agree on that point. What i'm wondering about is that some of you seem to resent bucks that are wide. Use the below statement as an example

HNTBIGBULLS said,
" I like the narrow tall and heavy bucks a little
more."

Ok fine, My question; would you like a Wide, tall and heavy buck? i know i would, that's the kinda buck i'm always hoping would show himself when i'm in good country.

I myself have passed up 2 bucks that had a over 30" outside spread. They didn't push my button, i had time, and was seeing lots of bucks. Just because i passed, does not mean that i discount width of spread. My idea of a great hunt is where i get a chance to see lots of game, look over several mature bucks, and if one pushes my buttons, i'll take em. If not, i'll go home empty but happy.

I agree with those who have said that there is too much concern about what a deer scores. If a buck floats your boat, take em.

In my book, Trash points are always an extra, never a deduction.
 

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