TROPHY BUCKS THAT HAVE BEEN AGED BY THE G&F

feduptwo

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-08 AT 12:03PM (MST)[p]In our meeting Tuesday with the G&F it came to light that the biologist seems to think that deer quit getting bigger after about 4 years old and actually are regressing when they are 5. What I'm looking for is pictures of big deer that were offically aged by a G&F or other very reliable source to show the biologist that 3-4 year old deer are not the end of the road. I imagine you guys have some pics of Big deer that were much older than that
Thanks Guys,
Fed
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-08 AT 12:07PM (MST)[p]P.S. if i can email someone a photo and they'll post it I'll email a pic of my deer that was aged at 4.5
 
Aged @ 6 1/2 years by Utah G&F lab.

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B4B,
Nice mount there, congrats.

FEDUP,

Sent you an e-mail, just attach the pictur to it and send back.

Brian
 
You might try talk to some serious shed hunters that have multiple years worth of sheds from the same buck and they will tell you differently. True, a buck can be really nice at 4.5 years old, but to say that they have maxed out and won't get bigger after 4.5 yrs. is absolutely wrong.

Dax
 
ya the deer above are for sure on the down swing! im sure they were alot bigger back when they were 4. or even 3 1/2. NOT!!!!
 
Here's some sheds, all are off the same buck and he still may be alive! Who knows how old he is, all i know is he is old!

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Took me 5 years to match up this side to the buck!
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And lastly, here's 2 sheds off my 2004 muley. Both are considerably smaller than he was when i shot him...

The buck:
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The sheds:
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LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-08 AT 07:19PM (MST)[p]I have never actually had a tooth aged but I have watched several bucks for several years.

I was able to video this buck for 4 out of 5 summers.
Summer of 2000. Estimated age 3 years.
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Summer of 2002. Estimated age 5 years.
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Summer of 2003. Estimated age 6 years.
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Summer of 2004. Estimated age 7 years. 200 gross typical.
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Here's a buck I videod for 5 out of 6 years and then finally killed during the 2006 hunting season.
Winter of 2001-2002 Estimated age 3.5 years
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Didn't see this buck the winter of 2002-2003 but did see him again the winter of 2003-2004. The video footage is very poor so I don't have any clipped jpgs of him that year. He was trashed out with at least 8 or 9 points per side. Age estimated at 5.5 years.

Winter of 2004-2005 was his best year. Age estimated at 6.5 years. 225 gross NT.
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Winter of 2005-2006. Age estimated at 7.5 years. He dropped 20 inches this year. 205 gross NT.
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Dec 10th 2006. Age estimated at 8.5 years. 202 gross NT.
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You ought to know by now that you cant beleive any thing them jack asses have to say.
 
This buck was aged @ 6 years by the fish and game. IMO 4 years is not even close to max antler growth for most bucks. But what do I know. Is this biologist we are talking about from Utah!





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What state was this biologist from? I shot a huge buck in Wy. A few years back turns out it had been videod and the sheds picked up and scored for 2 years prior. The biologist pulled a tooth sent it to the lab and I have a certificate stating it at 6 and 1 third years old. the sheds from 4 and 5 years were almost the same score but he had regressed some at 6 still scored 206". the same year a buck taken in Ut. scored 211 and my dad and I had 3 years of sheds from him from 190 up to 207 he was estimated at 7 years old. I would say it is more likely that at 4 years you can get a better idea of what a bucks real potential is going to be like.
Dave
 
Yes, the biologist from Utah know everything. They said that last years winter was just as tuff as this year. The guy kept saying that there were more deer killed by the raod sides last year than there were this year. I don't think that some of the Fish N Game and the biologist do the right thing ALOT of the time.

With the hard winter, I think they should cut tags. I would sit out a year if that is what it takes to get the deer herd up and find more than 3 deer in the state with the age of atleast 4.5 years.
 
I shot this buck on the Vernon unit in 2002. It was aged at 5.5 years. I'm guessing it was the drought and poor range conditions that held this buck back, rather than age.

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Nice bucks! I kind of like seeing the ages with the horns like in the elk forum.

While the actual score (net) may go down when they get real old (maybe!) they seem to keep putting on stickers and/or mass. Nothing better than that!

People say the same thing about Utah elk. It just seems to me the more age they get the better the rack in terms of mass and the extra stuff.
 
Yes it was Chester, Eastmans last year Feb/March issue and resently Muley Crazy.

Thanks for the complement.

Mike
 
This is timely topic. I sent the teeth from 17 of the bucks our hunters took this year to Matson's Lab in Montana. (Google them for a good website on this issue.) Just got the results back last week. The best buck taken scored 205 and he was 9 and 1/2 years old. We had several others that I thought were older bucks, but they turned out to be 4 or 5 year olds. One was a 9X8 that scored 189 and I was sure he was 6 or older. I'm likely going to do an article or write up because the results were intersting. I've got a power point of the bucks; now I just need to load the age data and get something written up.

I do know that I have visited with the biologist in NE Colorado and he says they take those big plains deer and he has seen them up to 13 years old and they are still going strong.

I'm not sure what your biologist is smoking, but it sure has affected his intelligence. I have NEVER heard anybody with a sound biological background say that bucks are peaked out at 4.5 years old.
 
Jim-what he actually said was that the big 3x4 and 2x3 bucks we see out there rutting are bucks past their prime.His claim was that they were the 30" 4x4's that seem to be fewer than they were years ago.I posed the question to him of why do have all these genetically inferior bucks nowdays compared to years past.Apparently he is not of the belief that these are just plain genetically inferior animals that no one will shoot,therefore leaving them to do lots of the breeding.They were the trophies when they were 4-5 yrs old.Once they hit 6,they regress into 3x4's,2x3's,and such.this is not bs to make him look bad.He actually said this.At least we won this battle for once.There is strength in numbers.Later,NT.
 
A big 2x2, 2x3, 3x3 and even 3x4 antler configuations on a mature buck is more likely a function of genetics than age. Nutrition can play a role, but when you have a mainframe missing points on a mature buck it is almost certainly genetics.

I would like to see some managment hunts for these type of bucks on trophy units that are managed for older age classes and high buck to doe ratios. That might help by not giving this type of buck the potential to breed more than his fair share. The key to making sure the managment hunts are effective is getting age data from harvested management bucks and ensuring that those bucks are 3.5 or older. If not decrease tag #'s, or discontinue the hunt. On a management hunt you don't want to be shooting 2.5 year old bucks, but I believe that by the time a buck hits 3.5 if he isn't a 4x4 or bigger it is highly unlikely that he ever will be.


Dax
 
Dax hit the nail square on the head!!! Genetics play a huge role in antler growth. There are plenty of bucks that could be harvested on limited entry units, Under a management or youth hunt opportunities. 2x3 3x3 3x4 all would be a great youth opportunities on more than one Utah limited entry hunt!
 
Thanks, Cliff. We do exactly what you describe on our best ranches. There are several HUGE 3x3 or even 3X2 bucks around and we bring in kids to whack them. It took a while to get the ranchers to "buy in" on taking these bucks, since we don't pay much for the management privilege. But it takes those big guys out of the breeding pool and in the long run helps our genetics.

It's a tough deal on public lands, though. It is even hard on private to go in and have a kid take a big 4-6 year old buck because they are not dumb.

I've not seen much in the way of progressive management from Wyo G&F, and really don't have high expectations. Nice guys, but for the most part, they do what thay have always done. The Greys is a prime example. With just a LITTLE management, it could be a crown jewel. Not likely in my lifetime, even though there are many issues that jeopardize the future of those bucks.
 
I second Justins' suggestion to contact Ken Klegg if you need data. I would love to see Ken write an article for a hunting magazine on the correlation between percent harvest, age, buck/doe ratios, and B&C score. The bottom line is that while there is some correlation, the only variable that can be accuratly used to predict average B&C score for a unit is percent harvest. Age is not necessarily a good predictor of B&C score, neither are Buck/Doe or Bull/Cow ratios. He has also tied all that data into the economics end of things, and knows how to manage bucks and bulls to maximize economic value. I think it would be interesting if a state wildlife agency tried using his formula on some trophy units to manage for providing the maximum value to the public.

Dax
 
Stupid me.I actually suggested youth management hunts to take out some of these inferior bucks.The response from G&F was pretty typical of the usual response."Well,we feel like the regulations are already confusing enough,so adding something like that would make them even MORE confusing."Pretty lame response,IMO.I even proposed if they wanted to raise tag numbers by 50,make half of them doe tags;the other half youth(ages 12-16)tags,good only for antlered deer that must be 3 pts or less on one antler.But,I guess that's too confusing.Much like Jim is doing,taking out the inferior genetic is good,sound management.I assume Justin also has management hunts on some of his leases.Kudos to you guys.Problem with Wyo G&F is they never look outside the box.Like the local biologist,it's all about the data,no matter how skewed that can sometimes be.
 
That's interesting the responce you got from the Utah G&F Dept on Youth management hunts. "Well,we feel like the regulations are already confusing enough", In other words what they are saying is that they are to lazy to do there job, or to inhance the hunting opertunity for the youth in the state of Utah.

Some one should start a post on this subject to see what the responce would be from sportsman.
 

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