I got it solved for deer in Utah!

S

swbuckmaster

Long Time Member
Messages
5,004
Why don't we implement several spike units for deer in Utah just like we do for elk?
It seems to work for the elk!




Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
YOU'RE TALKING OUT YOU ASS,RIGHT???

THAT OR YOU WORK FOR THE DWR???

GOOD GAWD DON'T GET ME STARTED!!!



THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
I think you posted that just to get a rise out of BCB...baiting is illegal in Utah....

BCB..language!!!
 
For 95% of Utah's successful deer hunters that's exactly what the Utah general season hunt is-a spike and two point hunt...no changes needed.;-)
 
This way everybody every year can hunt and kill a big spike deer. The meat would be so tender.

The youth would be able to hunt from a 4-wheeler or the back of the truck and wouldn't have to work for it.

You would be able to fill your tag on the first day of the hunt therefore costing much less to hunt.

It wouldn't cost you as much to get a spike done at your local meat locker because there isn't as much meat on a spike!

All of this has a point and the point is why do we have spike hunts for elk?

Do you hang the spike horns in your garage or do you throw them in your flower beds as decorations.

Maybe some people make great knifes with them.

How about a tomato stake?

maybe a big dog bone.

Spike hunts suck! IMHO if you need the meat buy a cow tag save the bulls for the horn hunters!




Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
I agree the spike hunts suck, and if you need the meat why not do a wild pig hunt??? I did one in January this year and shot a great eating pig with my bow. Got way more meat than I would from any spike, and I didn't have to kill a cow that replenishes the herd either. Costs more I guess, about $500 to hunt and get it butchered. But I've got a freezer full of ribs, bacon, sausage etc....
 
"This way everybody every year can hunt and kill a big spike deer. The meat would be so tender.

The youth would be able to hunt from a 4-wheeler or the back of the truck and wouldn't have to work for it.

You would be able to fill your tag on the first day of the hunt therefore costing much less to hunt."

I am with Prism. Isn't that what it is already?

The problem we have is guys start crying if they cannot go every year. I will never understand why Utah gives more tags than bucks? By their numbers there should be about 50k total bucks and 97k tags? No wonder a spike and two point is a Utah herd buck.
 
Pretty dang funny there sw.......

I think prism's post is about as close to accurate as we can get...

Robb
 
A REALITY CHECK FOR sw!!!

IF YOU WERE IN CHARGE OF TRYING TO BRING A HERD BACK THATS ALREADY IN PISS POOR SHAPE,WOULD YOU REALLY WANT TO ELIMINATE THE FAWN CROP???

Prism HUNTS UTAH,I CAN TELL!!!

TOO MANY PROUD "TARDS" SAYING: I GOT MY LIL PISSCUTTER BUCK!!!

OR!!!

I FILLED MY LIL PISSCUTTER TAG!!!

OR!!!

LOOK AT MY LIL PISSCUTTER TROPHY DOE I TOOK WITH MY STICK FLIPPER!!!

THAT $HIT WOULD COME TO AN END REAL QUICK IF I HAD ANY SAY,KILL THE DOES THAT HAVE FAWNS THAT AIN'T EVEN 2 MONTHS OLD,WTF???



THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
47654abd5a8fd79a.jpg


469ff2b8110d7f4e.jpg


THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
Prism is correct in how the Utah general deer hunt is. That was one of my points. I hate to see these hunts taking all the bucks/bulls before they get the milk off their lips.

I would not issue one single doe tag in the state of Utah right now. Unless! The herd was at peak carrying capacity. These freaking farmers would have to put up with a little deer damage to their crops.

As for elk most of these units are either at or just under carrying capacity. So a few more bulls and cows need to be sold to other areas around the country or need to be culled.

I have seen the utard mentality on general deer hunts and it makes me sick. Maybe we need to put the guys that kill a small buck in the news paper like BESS said earlier. LOL
I don't know what it is about Utah and the general deer hunt but I have seen a glimmer of hope in their thinking.

I have never seen anyone take a spike, two point, or a doe on the Wasatch Front. It might happen but in my 8/9 years of hunting up their I have never seen it with my eyes. Every one you talk to on the trail says I passed a 22 or 23 inch 3 or 4 point this morning or I saw a 180? buck. Why do these hunters have trigger control and the rest of the general rifle hunters get the shakes when they see a Utah non typical 1x 2?



Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
Man scott now i am in the dog house with you. I happened to be a doe killer. as a matter of fact I have killed 2 of them on the front with my stick flipper. Looks like I will have to up my standards a little more to hang with you now I guess. ;-)

alpinebowman

>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->

National guard archery staff shooter
 
pro,

You and Anus have the elk thing figured out. Could you please give me your thoughts why Utah has approximately 30-40 thousand bucks give or take 10 thousand, and they offer up 97k tags? This just makes no sense to me. Why do people kill deer with their mom's tit in their mouth? Because they can. I think some improvement is happening, but very very slowly. Colorado does not even give out the tags Utard does and they have twice as many deer. I don't get it?

Could you talk to Anus pro?;-)
 
Maybe Utah has so many tags allotted for....oh....I don't know.... maybe MONEY!!! Just think if they sold all 97K tags!! Think of the management money they would mis-manage. It would be great!!

Steve
 
Well by golly Wiszard, if they would put a decent buck to tag ratio out there I would pay them the difference of my tag? Maybe you could apply for the vacant UDWR financial guru job?;-)

Correct me if I am wrong, but Nevada, Colorado, Idaho, Wyoming etc. gives out less tags than Utard and they have more bucks. I don't think it is any secret why just about every Utard trophy hunter I know either wants a Henry tag, or one in Nevada or Colorado, Wyoming if need be?

I personally think the herd should be strong enough to allow anyone who wants a spike or two point to shoot one, but let some grow for those who like something better.

I laugh every time I think about the AF Canyon buck. This buck was nice, but not that nice, yet the traffic jambs to see this Utah monster were unreal. There should be one of these bucks on every Utah winter range. Hell, 3 or 4 of them?
 
>Correct me if I am wrong,
>but Nevada,

>etc. gives out less tags
>than Utard and they have
>more bucks.

My brother in law lives in reno... they draw tags about every 5 years. When I was out there last and talked to them, their party had drawn, hunted... and not one of them where able to kill a buck of any kind.

I dont want a system like that personally.


-DallanC
 
I have to admit, I did not know that people would care if I shot a small deer. That is not why I hunt. Of course I have shot big deer and I would like to shoot more. But I just love being out and the excitment of making a good clean shot. I will continue to shoot small bucks, I am sure. Is there a problem with me shooting little bucks?

2Pointer
 
Nevada kicks our butt when it comes to buck to doe ratios, hunter success, 4 points killed, etc.... I think buck to doe ratios average around 30/100 in most units.

They also have good tags that can usually be drawn every year by residents. Sure, they have hard to draw units too, but if a resident wants to hunt in Nevada he can.

They also have a fraction of the good deer habitat we have.

Let's face it, Utah's general deer hunts and current management (soon to be changed-I hope) plans SUCK!

I've said it soooo many times I'm starting to get sick of hearing myself. I imagine a few of you are sick of hearing me too;-)

Is there anybody out there that hunts multiple states outside of Utah that doesn't agree?
 
Dallan and Prism,

I can totally understand both sides of this, but Dallan, you do not want a system like Nevada, but I do not want a system like Utah. So where is the compromise?

Prism you speak accurately. I do not get sick of hearing it. The problem is we have those who want to go every year and those who want trophy bucks. We have so many people here in Utah now and there is no way they can all chase Henry deer and Pahvant bulls every time they want. It cannot happen.

I do not see any difference in Nevada, Colorado, or Wyoming's system. They are all about the same minus the Wyoming resident part of it. From my experience, those other states are hands down better hunting. If you want a spike then go for it. If you want a trophy, they are there if you can find him. I know, I know, Utah produces a few 200 bucks also, but not like the other states and I don't think having some trophy deer around mean Utah has to be the Henry Mountain border to border.
 
I hate the spike hunts on one hand and the once in an lifetime aspect of a branch antlered bull on the other. I think there should be a middle ground in some of the units that are not trophy units.

The only advantage I see to the spike hunt is that it does select which bulls will be given a chance to mature. If the bull starts out as a 2 point it would more than likely have the genetics to be a trophy class bull. Age alone does not make a big bull or buck IMHO.

The DWR results of my buck a couple of years ago said he was 9 1/2 years old and, he was only 21" wide with no real tine length.

I am sure it will be different in 24 years when I have enough points for my Wasatch tag.
 
The chance to hunt I believe is what we all want, whether a trophy area or general unit. Those that want to take a little buck, for whatever reason, go ahead and take him. I don't have a problem with that. Hell I have taken some little bucks in my day. Those that want to take a big mature buck, probably not going to happen every year, but that is their choice. I for one only want to hunt big bucks, and even that is relative. A big buck for me is 170" and up. I don't have any desire to shoot anything smaller. Someone else may think 170" is still too small.

My yearly hunts take me to Idaho, Utah and Wyoming when I draw, 2 out of 4 years now. To tell you the truth I find alot of bucks in each state, Wyoming seems to have more mature, bigger bucks, so far. But last year I passed a 26" buck in Utah just because I wanted to see that no brainer buck. I think if you do some research, hunt hard and hold out you can take big bucks anywhere you go.

Having said all that, I do wish Utah would do something about the deer herd, it obviously needs help. I wonder if drastically reducing the number of tags for 3-5 years would help the herd rebound???? It can't hurt can it???
 
It is not about quality, number of bucks or even total deer numbers with the Utah DWR. It is hunter oppurtunity and that is it. And until people stop buying tags this attitude will not change.
At the March Central RAC I proposed they cut 2000 Central Gen. season tags this year the RAC voted to cut 1000 in adition to the 1000 cut 2 years ago. This went before the Wildlife board and they were on the verge of approving the cut when the DWR director spoke up during debate saying that the board has a hard time reinstating tags they cut and that if we cut tags it will only hurt the youth and we will lose hunters and they will not come back. In none of the debates did the DWR show any concern (accept in the North) about the possibility of a higher then normal winter kill. Even though according to them 2007 was one of the worst fawn crops ever due to the drought.
 
I hunt multiple states per year and I agree that colorado and wyoming are better opportunity for mature bucks, BUT I also believe that Utah offers a hunter a yearly opportunity to hunt for a big buck and that is a unique opportunity. Of course there are people that shoot the first buck they see but I have seen many guys especially archery hunters pass on buck after buck through out a season. I am definetly not saying that Utah doesn't need some changes because it does but why not hunt harder climb higher and enjoy what opportunities we do have. This state is full of over acheivers in my oppinion. What I mean by that is we have a bunch of guys willing to do what the average hunter is not willing to do. I have seen it more and more in recent years. That drive the people in Utah have makes the hunting tough and the competition thick in some areas, but I for one won't let a little competition and a few hard nosed hunters slow me down. I say good on them and I will see you at the top of the mountain. Although it is tough, there are still opportunites for those willing to work. Just my oppinion
 
If the DWR director is so worried about hurting the youth by not handing out enough tags, why don't he change the draw policy and ensure that each youth that turns of age gets first priority on the general tags.

If we really want to recruit and retain youth hunters we need to give them an opportunity to hunt.

Case in point; I've got a 12 year old that wants to hunt so bad it hurts. She didn't draw a general deer tag for Utah this year. I know several other kids that didn't draw either.
Something's wrong with this system when we hand out 94,000 tags, and the kids don't get them first.

Now just for the record, this kid will be hunting out of state, and will get plenty of chances this year to draw blood, but it won't be in her home state. We'll be in Az, and Co, and Idaho handing them our $ and bringing home the bigguns. But most of the youth that are truly impressionable and recruitable don't get to leave the county let alone the state if they don't draw a general tag.

Oh I just remembered, we can get her a spike tag and chase mossy horned spikes!
 
My first thought when I read this thread was. "go ahead give out all the spike tags you want" Looking back on my general hunt days in Utah, I don't remember seeing that many spikes.
Most yearling bucks are 2 points, unless the genetics are bad.
Then I thought what a catastophe it would be. All the 2 point bucks being shot and the hunters saying "I thought it was a spike when I shot".
In the shooting gallery mentality of how the general hunt used to be, I'm afraid this would happen.
Or has the attitude of the general hunter changed over the years?
 

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