Utah Mule Deer Survey Email -UDWR

G

gdog

Active Member
Messages
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LAST EDITED ON Jul-01-08 AT 06:25PM (MST)[p]Anyone else get this today...?

The survey is basically quality or quantity and atv or no atv...



Dear Utah mule deer hunter:

The Utah Division of Wildlife Resources needs your help in determining the future of mule deer management in Utah. We are using this survey to learn about your past and present mule deer hunting experiences, as well as your opinions on possible future mule deer management options.

You have been randomly selected to participate in this survey effort because you either applied for a 2008 mule deer hunting license or you purchased a mule deer license in 2007.

The survey is internet based and has a total of 26 questions

. It should take you approximately 15 minutes to complete. To access the survey, please click on the following link.
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=6oB22mD2hJZnyoSIsU0njg_3d_3d

Please act soon, as you will

If you have any questions regarding the survey or have problems accessing it, please contact

Thank you for taking the time to participate in this survey and for your interest in mule deer hunting in Utah.

Sincerely,

Utah Division of Wildlife Resources

only have until Monday, July 21 to access and complete this survey. (801) 538-4784
 
I got one. I had a feeling some changes were on the horizon. But with questions like "would you rather hunt a small buck every year or a big buck every TEN years" I just hope they dont go over board on this.I really dont want it to be like drawing an elk tag is now. Sure we have monster bulls in almost every unit but how often will we get to hunt them? once every ten years probably not? every twenty maybe.Never? (theres a good chance on some units)
 
I got it too.. Have they ever heard of micro manage? that seems to be the best solution that I can think of.
 
I voted for quality and no more ATV's anywhere! That alone would keep at least 50% of the hunters home. I would gladly hunt only every other year if it meant half the people in the hills.
 
Well here's MY reply to them Gdog-

"Sorry to not be able to participate in the survey due to not receiving a deer permit not only in 2007, but in 2008 as well!!"








48288e6577d023b6.jpg
 
Slam....I'll never pull another tag...so you better get that Henrys tag in 09' so I can come along!!!!!
 
Gdog-
That's EXACTLY what's happening man.....
"good things come to those who wait" ;-)

And your top man on my list to be there!!







48288e6577d023b6.jpg
 
I was surprised to see the 2 point and smaller option for the general hunt in conjunction with a limited amount of tags for "any deer." Never heard this idea on the table for deer. I guess its had its advantages with the elk though.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-01-08 AT 10:57PM (MST)[p]I agree with Utah needing to make some changes.

But I do not think Atvs should be banned in all areas. But it would help out in some areas.

Micro management is the key and they did not really ask that. I also thought no tag in 5 years for a Big buck or hunt every year for a small buck was strange. What about sale half the tags have half the hunters taking half as many deer and half as many atvs out there???

Everyone born on a odd year hunts odd years everyone that was born on a even year hunts even years??

Deer tags from $35 a year for res to $70 unless you can qualify for a reduction in price. that way they don't loose the all mighty dollar

Also I know it easy to say the hell with all the hunters that hunt on ATVs or all the Hunters that just go up and drive the roads, but keep in mind these are hunters and not non hunters and I do not think the fish and game is wanting less hunters but I think there trying to figure a way to make the majority gets what they want...

I think that if Utah could cut tags in half they would start seeing a big difference in just a couple years if the Winters don't kill the deer first.

Uthunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard Utah
 
It was a fairly decent and plain survey.

Didn't come across as being to negative towards any type of hunt opportunity.

Yeh-leave the ATV crowd at the parking lot......or on the vehicle legal dirt roads only....

I have not really been to discourage with the current deer hunt nor the quality seen while hunting.

Atleast there seems to be an effort to get more public input....not real sure why they had questions about membership in the Con Orgs in a mule deer survey?

Robb
 
Your in Jim, i'd LOVE to get footage of my "once in a life time' deer.....not too mention i hear you have eyes better than a wolf for finding game!! ;-)










48288e6577d023b6.jpg
 
Boy have they got us fooled again. This is just another thing to make us think they are doing something. The state doesn't give a rat's butt about our mule deer herds. As long as their money is coming in they don't care whether we harvest a deer, or even that we see one. As long as they sell the tags, they don't have anything to worry about.
And now, they shouldn't have to worry about money either. I understand they made nearly $3.2 million just from nonresidents last year for having to purchase a hunting permit.
It doesn't matter what they do, the hunting will never change in Northern Utah as long as they are giving 19,000 deer tags. Oh wait, I guess it was 18,000 tags this year. 1,000 tags less...big whuppee! That should make a huge difference!!
I just had to vent for a minute.
Anyway, I did take the survey but, I will be extremely surprised if anything is changed.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-02-08 AT 12:21PM (MST)[p]They are in the process of revising the statewide mule deer management plan that will guide how the DWR manages deer hunting for the next 5 years. If you have an opinion and get the survey, that is your chance to provide your input. If you are pissed because you didn't get a tag, maybe you should take the survey and choose the "hunt every year for small bucks" option.

I think the questions about if you belong to a conservation org are to see if ideas proposed by the bosses of the cons orgs really represent their membership and the general public hunter in the state.

Only allowing people to hunt in odd and even years based on when they were born will not fly, what about the dads that want to hunt with their kids that were born in different years?

The cut tags in half and double the price idea to allow us to hunt every other year thing will not be popular. Right now in the Southern, and Central regions it is already a hunt every other year deal. SE is getting that way, and this year I know guys that didn't draw their NE region tag in the draw. With archery and N region tags selling out in June, I bet those tags will almost all go in the draw next year. When it comes to buck hunting in Utah the demand far exceeds the supply.

Micromanagement is overrated. In 1999 CO went to micromanagement, but they also cut tags by more than 50%. NV micromanages, but they also manage for a post season buck to doe ratio way higher than UT. UT manages for a postseason buck doe ratio of 15-20 per 100, and the way the UT micromanagement was proposed that wouldn't change. The way they proposed micromanagement when the DWR talked about it at the RAC meetings all it would do is limit hunters and create more administrative and enforcement hassles for the DWR with very very little benefit to hunters. As I heard Don Peay say "It's like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic".

We could cut tags by 50% and make smaller units and we would definitely produce some pigs, but you would be looking at hunting every 5-10+ years rather than almost every year. A handful of trophy hunters that hunt in multiple states (MM members) would be happy with that, but there are a lot of people in the state that would not. Probably why they are doing a survey to see what the majority of deer hunters really want.


Dax
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-02-08 AT 10:50AM (MST)[p]Interesting Dax....

As a UDWR biologist, you just added more proof to my theory that....we are more concerned with how we 'manage deer hunting for the next 5 years' rather then how to manage mule deer for the next five. You don't manage mule deer through hunting unless you above population objectives and buck objectives. Then and only then should you have hunting as a management tool. Then the number of permits issued for those areas that meet that criteria should be set with some sort of purpose and objective based on hunter success.

Really I mean come on, let's get serious. Don't you and everyone else think that managing mule deer should be our major concern. Population dynamics, DVCs, shrinking and fragmenting habitat, increasing elk herds, predation management all ought to be in the management plan--these are some of the issues. These should be what we are focusing shouldn't we? Once we address these then hunting is an added bonus isn't it?

I'm telling you and everyone else right now that if we don't change our focus (hunting to MANAGEMENT) we won't be hunting mule deer at all in 20 years.

Personally, I don't care if I ever hunt mule deer again (there i said it) but I sure as he11 would like to be able to see them 20 years down the road and at least have memories of an animal that I have loved and enjoyed for well over 30 years.



Todd Black
BTO
 
Dax--

You show me anything anywhere that has been published in peer reviewed literature for mule deer and that has been conducted on an experimental design that says...."Micromanagement is overrated" Good grief, you know you shouldn't be making statements like that...

Todd Black
BTO
 
Dax -

I find it really hard to believe that you are a wildlife biologist and making comments like this.

Dax - "They are in the process of revising the statewide mule deer management plan that will guide how the DWR manages deer hunting for the next 5 years."

5 years my arse!! You guys haven't stuck to any one of your plans for 2 years much less 5 (Good or Bad!!).

Dax - "I think the questions about if you belong to a conservation org are to see if ideas proposed by the bosses of the cons orgs really represent their membership."

Pretty brave/stupid to be checking up on organizations that put money on the ground for conservation. Now I know why they use their own biologists at times.

Dax - "Micromanagement is overrated. In 1999 CO went to micromanagement, but they also cut tags by more than 50%. NV micromanages, but they also manage for a post season buck to doe ratio way higher than UT. UT manages for a postseason buck doe ratio of 15-20 per 100, and the way the UT micromanagement was proposed that wouldn't change. The way they proposed micromanagement when the DWR talked about it at the RAC meetings all it would do is limit hunters and create more administrative and enforcement hassles for the DWR with very very little benefit to hunters. As I heard Don Peay say "It's like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic".

Wow! I can't even believe somebody in your position would make a statement like that. Please don't compare Utah to Colorado. You can't! You're not even on the same level with mule deer!! Look at their mule deer population. Colorado is known for their mule deer all over the country!! The reason.......MICRO MANAGEMENT!!!!!!! I'm breaking out the violin for your increased "administrative and enforcement hassles". I'm sorry that improving our deer herd is such a "hassle" for you DWR boys. I've heard that what we do for our wildlife is directly controlled by our biologists studies and surveys. Hell, I sure hope not or we are SCREWED!!!!

I'm glad you posted this Dax! People need to know what the DWR are thinking, and if your thought process is an accurate representation of the entire DWR then our deer herd doesn't have a chance in hell of ever recovering.

Answer me this question, apparently you think that "quality" hunting is seeing monster bucks in each unit. Whatever happened to quality being represented by the buck to doe ratios and deer quantity?

Mark my words, the DWR will be the sole destroyer of our deer herds. It won't be the hunter!











It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
It's all about the almighty dollar even if it means squandering our herds over the next "5 Years". It's time to do the "unpopular" thing and cut tags.

The 1000 tag cut this year is an insult to our deer herds. Hell, Colorado cut 1000 tags in 1 unit. Some of their "popular" units got tag cuts of 75%! What's wrong with with Colorado? Don't they realize that they just destroyed their budget this year? Don't they realize that they hurt the economy of most of the small towns in these units because of the cut in tags? What's the big deal? I'll tell you what the big deal is....Colorado realizes what a valuable resource their mule deer are and will do anything to keep the herds healthy. Colorado will bounce back in a couple of years. If this was Utah, it would take several "5 year plans" to recover and then it still would be questionable. The difference.......unlike Utah, Colorado has the balls to do the "unpopular" thing to ensure they have mule deer to hunt in the future. As it stands, I will continue to give my money to Colorado because they know what or what not to do with it!



It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
They should have NEVER put up the remaiming OTC northern deer tags up for sale after that bad winter....bad move IMO.







48288e6577d023b6.jpg
 
>It's all about the almighty dollar
>even if it means squandering
>our herds over the next
>"5 Years". It's time
>to do the "unpopular" thing
>and cut tags.
>
>The 1000 tag cut this year
>is an insult to our
>deer herds. Hell, Colorado
>cut 1000 tags in 1
>unit. Some of their
>"popular" units got tag cuts
>of 75%! What's wrong
>with with Colorado? Don't
>they realize that they just
>destroyed their budget this year?
> Don't they realize that
>they hurt the economy of
>most of the small towns
>in these units because of
>the cut in tags?
>What's the big deal?
>I'll tell you what the
>big deal is....Colorado realizes what
>a valuable resource their mule
>deer are and will do
>anything to keep the herds
>healthy. Colorado will bounce
>back in a couple of
>years. If this was
>Utah, it would take several
>"5 year plans" to recover
>and then it still would
>be questionable. The difference.......unlike
>Utah, Colorado has the balls
>to do the "unpopular" thing
>to ensure they have mule
>deer to hunt in the
>future. As it stands,
>I will continue to give
>my money to Colorado because
>they know what or what
>not to do with it!
>
>
>
>
>It's always an adventure!!!
>www.awholelottabull.com

+++++++++++1
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-02-08 AT 12:12PM (MST)[p]Everything I typed is my own personal opinion, and nothing more.

I appreciate that you have different opinions, and that you may not agree. That is fine.

The 5 year plan is about how the state will manage deer including populations, habitats, hunting etc. Hunting is just one part of the plan, but hunting is "overrated" when it comes to population management.

I absolutely agree with everything Todd says in post 17. That is exactly why I get frustrated with hunters thinking that micromanagement or unit by unit general season deer hunting is going to save our deer herd. It won't grow our deer populations. I cannot find anything in the scientific peer reviewed literature that says that micromanagement will increase deer populations. It will grow bigger bucks, and increase buck to doe ratios, but I absolutely think it is overrated when it comes to the perception that micromanagement of hunting will grow more deer. Look at NV deer numbers, they micromanage hunting and have super high buck to doe ratios but their populations continue to decline.

At this point cutting tags is not something that would be driven by deer biology, it is something that would be driven entirely by social and political desires. Buck to doe ratios and hunting pressure on bucks is not what is driving mule deer population dynamics in Utah. If you want more and bigger bucks and to hunt less often then micromanagement is the way to go. If pure trophy hunting is what you want, that is easy. We just manage the whole state like the Henry Mtns. for deer, or like we manage the LE elk units.

If you want more deer then you should focus your efforts on habitat projects, winter range easements and purchases, reducing deer vehicle collisions, predator issues, competition with elk, energy development, and other issues affecting survival, production, and recruitment. I applaud the efforts of the Sportsmen Orgs in UT for their contributions to those causes.

Todd, I think we are closer to being on the same page than you realize. If we have some differences of opinion, that is fine too.

Dax
 
Dax -

I guess my whole frustration with the micro managed deer units is that you really think you have to search for a scientific peer review article that tells you what to do. The evidence is right in front of you. You can't tell me that what Colorado does with their deer herds will not work in Utah. Granted it may not all work but some of it will work. I don't see Utah doing anything exept improving habitat. Habitat is all fine and dandy and I do realize that management involves more than just hunting but if we continue to hunt the way we hunt our deer numbers will never improve. I don't think anybody here wants the whole state to be like the Henry Mountains but like I said in my previous post, get rid of the dollar signs in your eyes and cut tags. The DWR needs to bite the bullet and let the deer recover. Utah has many sportsmans orgs that the DWR benefit from financially. Colorado doesn't get half of what Utah gets.

I love Utah. I wouldn't live anywhere else. The DWR has managed elk well but I don't buy the statement that we have to manage our elk like Colorado manages theirs in order to get the quality and quantity of deer that Colorado has. That right there is a cop-out.


It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
I am glad that Colorado is smart enough to preserve what they have taken 10 years to build by cutting deer tags after such a brutal winter for the deer and elk. I wish they would change the way they manage elk in trophy deer units.

In my opinion they should start cow and spike hunts a few days after the deer season kicks off for Units that take 4 points or more for deer.

A lot of people in Colorado have begged more more managed trophy elk units but the DOW has not budged. Imagine waiting 10 years for a deer tag that is in a OTC bull elk unit what a joke. They could at the very least give deer hunters a 3 or 4 day head start in trophy units. And it would not hurt to have a few more trophy elk units either.


I know more than a few of you guys have this problem in your state too. Such as with spike elk and cow hunters hunting same time as Trophy bull tags that took years to draw.


East of I-25 has a totally seperate format from that of West of I-25. We can not hunt deer in Colorado West of I-25 until 2nd season this of course is not including archery or ML and the few Early season High country hunts.

My point being You can hunt first Rifle season elk all over the state and not worry about deer hunters except for in ML and archery season. Does not make sense why they can't alter dates for trophy deer seasons.


Utah could always go to a season format like Colorado to break up the number of people in the field at one time. But they would still need a better managment plan for deer.

After making it mandatory to buy a hunting license to get points they should have the money now to cut some tags back. If not then find other ways to increase revenue so they can start to build a better overall herd.



THE LORD IS MY ROCK
COLORADO,USA
NRA LIFE MEMBER
HUNTING PASS IT ON
 
hay utah dwr pull your head out of you ars and act like colorado.......... 2 points are for the kids.......... Grow up............I have no problem with kids or first time hunters shooting 2 poins but come on lets get off the tit and grow up.............. ITS TIME TO BE A BIG BOY..............................
 
It seems to me we are forgetting that the DWR gets more than 90% of their budget from tag sales. Tell this issues is solved, can they manage the herd any other way?
I my self am for smaller units with less tags. I would gladly hunt ever other year or even every third year if there were more big bucks.
Still comes down to money.
Rock5150
 
I am another that thinks Colorado has their act together. They have something for everyone, with their micromanaged units. You can choose to wait 10+ years and hunt an exceptional area, hunt every year and hunt a fair area, or anything in between.

I am a Utah resident but for the past few years have started hunting Colorado every year, and will probably do so for a long time. I can apply for a great area knowing I wont draw, and get a point, then either draw a second through a fourth choice, or buy a leftover tag. From what I have seen these bad areas in Colorado, (under prescribed, or can draw on 2nd choice) are above and beyond what a general area in Utah is like(and they are to the point that you dont even have a guarantee if you put in for them, let alone buying a tag over the counter).

So the guy who only wants to hunt big bucks every 10 years can. The guy who wants to hunt an average buck every year, can draw those areas on a 1st choice every year and hunt. And if you want to hunt their bad areas every year you can build points, then hunt the under prescribed areas every year(what I do).

Now why cant Utah do some thing like that, and please everyone. If you want to hunt Colorado every year you can their are some areas that never run out of Tags. In the meantime you can build points for a good area. Everyone is Happy, the trophy hunter, the beginner, and everyone in between.
 
I am surprised that anyone thinks hunting every other year is so bad! I really think that people born on odd years should hunt odd years and even on even years. I can see that you will never make everyone happy.. As for paying twice the price for a tag how is that crazy in the whole picture there are very few people that can not afford a $70 tag every other year.. people can still go hunting with there kids if there not both born on even years but only one can be the hunter in fact most people that take a young one hunting would be better off not hunting at the same time and taking more time schooling a younger hunter..

Dax

Why be so toxic about this??? Changes need to be made and saying that micro management wont work is a joke. It Works for elk in Utah and it should work for deer better then what is going on now..

We have made Utah elk herds one of the BEST if not the Best in the west with micro management even on a smaller scale we have made the henry's one of the best mule deer units in the west! ya there are a lot of people that would like to hunt the henry's but the sad fact is you got to give to get. Not all Utah units need to be Trophy Quality in fact most just need to be managed better. The way it is a Hot spot today will be overkilled tomorrow..

UThunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard Utah
 
Why don't other states have money issues? Where do they get their funding from? Is Utah the only state that gets funding from license sales?
Like I said earlier, it can't be a money thing anymore. The DWR has implemented several new ideas the past couple of years to bring them at least an extra $3.2 million dollars. And that has nothing to do with the money generated from conservation tags.
I am going to scream if the DWR cries for more money. What a shame it would be if they didn't get a new truck every year to drive.
 
I'm with Dax 100% on this. He made the point that CO tag cutting is their method to growing big deer, not necessarily micromanagement. If CO would have left tags #'s the same and made a bunch of units it wouldn't have changed much. If CO would have cut tags in half and had one big state hunt, there still would have been a decrease in harvest and an increase in big deer. It's such a simple concept. Nothing to get angry about.
 
SMELLYBUCK

How many tags are given in Colorado and how many in Utah? Then how many tags are there in colorado in November vs Utah. I am sure that if colorado wanted to sell more tags and go away from the late Rut hunts they could give out a hell of a lot more tags. Yes they cut back tags but hell they was giving out a lot more then Utah in the first place. And yes I know Utah aint Colorado but someone should atleast look at what Co is doing with there deer herds as it works and what Utah is doing really aint working or is it and I can not see it?

UThunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard UT
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-03-08 AT 00:35AM (MST)[p]Colorado bases the 4th season tag numbers on a few things like buck to doe ratio and herd overall health


Colorado makes the bulk of there money on Non resident elk tags they make money on all NON resident tags but the OTC elk is the bread and butter.

It is a unlimited resource with the OTC tags and only a %20 success rate on elk. They can pretty much sell a ton of elk tags cows are limited and bulls OTC and can generally expect hunters to not kill more than %20-%25 of elk tags are issued for.

Colorado knows they are known for there deer herd. The demand for trophy deer is high and Colorado limits the tag supply so they were not about to let it go down hill beacuase of a bad winter.

They will allow the herds to rebound stock them up and the demand will always be high because they manage smart.




Utah needs to find a way to make up for revenue that would be lost if they were to strictly manage deer numbers.

Here are some ideas I am sure you all have your opinions too.

1. All deer tags would need to go to a draw.

But make more LE units and Mangae for age. Outlaw spikes and Limit doe tags but ONLY for 4-5 years to get the herd numbers and health up.

2. Make more units by shrinking units down. After a couple years combine a few units

3. Put out some serious predator control this alone will increse deer herd health and size especially on wintering grounds.

Ban shed hunting until late spring.


4. Cut tags numbers by minium %25 maybe even %40 for 4-5 years and then go over statistics make informed decision move forward. Mandatory harvest reporting helps pin point cwd and stays on top of deer numbers.

Rotate managment objectives in non trophy units for herd size and age

Give out unlimited Whitetail deer tags and get rid of them invasive whitetails interbreeding is no good.

5. Raise deer tag prices $10-$15 for Bucks and use the funds for deer managment.

6. Set up a season stucture like Colorado 1st deer season
2nd deer season 3rd deer season ect.

This will put less hunters in the field at one time but over time a large group of hunters still can hunt.

7. Have Utah Fish and game auction some tags off not sportsman groups use the ALL FUNDS from these tags for deer herd health/numbers and nothing else. Cut the number tags given to Sportsman groups

8. Start a access yes program to private lands (should be using tag raffle funds) paid for by hunters through either a stamp for access or donations like other states but require land owners to improve there lands habitat for deer and elk herd wintering

9. Make conservation Tax easements(tax credits) to prevent future development on critical wintering range

10. Reward hunters who volunteer for habitat projects and deer herd monitering and managment assistence with tags or some sort of incentive VOLUNTEERS = FREE LABOR also builds better hunter fish and game relations.




THE LORD IS MY ROCK
COLORADO,USA
NRA LIFE MEMBER
HUNTING PASS IT ON
 
YOU CAN NOT FORCE CHANGE WITH OUT PUBLIC PRESSURE

You Utah guys need to organize and put some serious pressure on the Fish and Game to bring about some change. Nothing will ever get done by just talking about it on Monster Muleys

They can ignore a bunch of you but they can't ignore ALL of you.

It may take a while but if a group or Foundation was to get involved to back your cause then you would be getting somewhere faster.

What about the Mule deer foundation?



THE LORD IS MY ROCK
COLORADO,USA
NRA LIFE MEMBER
HUNTING PASS IT ON
 
TheGreatWhiteHunter

I totally agree with you!!!

I am glad I am not with the Utah fish and Game I do think they would like to do the right thing but with so many utards like myself we cant make up are minds on what we want them to do.

Trophy hunters want BIG Bucks

Family Hunters want to hunt together

ATV hunters want there rights to use there bikes

Horse hunters want ATVers Shot on site

Meat Hunters want to bring home any legal game they can harvest

And PETA loves the fact that all hunters cant group together!!

But I do think Colorado has a very good thing going not just for the deer herds, but for the hunters. If a guy wants to hunt every year he can put in for the hunt unit with good odds but maybe smaller chances of finding that monster buck!
If a trophy hunter wants to hunt only trophy's he will need to skip a few years and get some points under his belt or buck up for a landowner voucher.. And in most cases you see guys that want Bigger deer but have a second choice so that they can hunt almost every year and still get points....

That to me sounds like a win win deal
 
Some observations, in no particular order.

1. It would seem logical that if large numbers of elk negatively impact deer populations, this would be easy to observe in Colorado, given their elk herd of 260,000+ animals. Instead, Colorado's deer herd grew from 475,000 to 610,000 between 1999 and 2006.

2. Mule deer populations are determined by recruitment. There can be little doubt, based on the Colorado experience, that high buck ratios (30+/100 does), increase recruitment. Forty years ago pregnancy rates and recruitment were fairly equivalent, except during harsh winters. In my opinion, statistics collected in Oregon and other over the past 15 years make it pretty clear that high pregnancy rates do not necessarily result in an increasing deer population.

3. Since 1999, Colorado has had the largest mule deer population, yet has issued fewer buck tags than Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming and Montana. Not sure about Washington, and don't pay any attention to California. As a percentage of the population, Colorado issues fewer buck tags than any other Western. Colorado also has the most productive deer herd, in terms of fawn ratios, than any other Western state. Most states continue to manage buck numbers at a level designed to achieve high pregnancy rates, without regard for the age class of bucks doing the breeding, average dates of conception, etc. Studies on elk show conclusively that having mature bulls doing the breeding results in conception occurring earlier, calves being born earlier, and thus surviving in higher numbers during their first year, resuulting in better recruitment and increses in populations. I believe the same principal applies to Mule Deet.

4. I believe, whether by accident or design, Colorado has stumbled onto what has become a key factor in increasing mule deer populations: having sufficient mature bucks (4+ years of age) to ensure does are impregnated during the first estrus cycle. In my view, this is now the single most important factor in growing a mule deer herd, although predation is a close second in many places. It will be interesting to watch how the various states compare over the next few years, given Colorad0's drastic reduction in tag numbers, while other states made relatively modest changes.

Scoutdog
 
Just another thought. How much of the DWR?s budget is being used on non-game species?

30%, 40% 50%. Many years ago I worked a summer job out of the Cedar City Office and more than half of the Biologists and way more than half of the summer higher worked non-game species. PARRIE DOGS AND TUTERLS.

We need to FORCE accurate data collection. As I have said on other posts they do it for the once in a lifetime and LE unit animals but not general session animals. This has to be fixed to have the knowledge to fix the deer herd. It seems at times they do not want to know!!! Looks way too much like politics.

Long live the beast
Rock5150
 
just change the opening day of the rifle to wendsday same with elk.let the weekend hunters hunt the weekend and let the real hunters have first crack that ought to spread out the over pop up a little bit
 
SMELLYBUCK

Yes but I dont think one thing will fix the problam I think micro managment will help as much as cutting tags or changing the dates around.

Here is what I see working for colorado

1 Tags are limited to small areas

2 Those smaller units can be managed for deer that are living there in the summer, fall or winter.

3 Also smaller units can be managed for differant managment goals Buck to doe ratios, Age class, trophy quality and number of deer.

4 Some units can be hunted by those that want to hunt every year but in trade give up Quality of experience or Trophy Quality.

5 Trophy hunters can hunt trophy units but will need to give up years or money to hunt those units.

6 Landowner can open there property to the public with landowner tags that they can sell keep or trade and they find that wildlife can be worth wild to keep on there property

UThunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard Utah
 
Scoutdog,

Your "observations" are SPOT ON (as usual).

Keep it up!!!:)

I took the survey. I can only imagine that the results will be something similar to what Idaho got....opportunity (along with $$$) trumps quality and concern for the "OVERALL" health of our mule deer herds.

Todd paints a pretty grim picture looking 20 years down the road. Sadly, I think there's a good chance he may be right if we don't make some major changes NOW!

Perhaps most concerning is going to be the HUGE (and likely needed) expansion of the oil and gas industry thoughout most of the West.
 
Clynt,

That is the first pro micro management post I've seen with some sense to it. Virtually every micro management post I've seen before is just code for cutting tags without any additional thought or reason.
 
I was probably a little hard on Dax with my previous post and extend my appologies. While I disagree with some of his post I do respect his oppinion as a sportsman and as a biologist. My disappointment of watching our deer herd dwindle over the years caused me to vent a little and probably on an undeserving person. I do however feel very strongly about the nescesity for immediate change with regards to Utah's deer herds. I hope good change is on the horizon.

It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
As far as ATVs are concerned, where is the happy medium?

Currently they are all over the place but how would the state benefit if they restricted or eliminated ATV use during the hunting seasons? Of course the horse guys are excited about this type of situation but what about the vast majority that use ATVs to get from home to your starting point and then hunt on foot?

And who is going to enforce these new restrictions? This is an age old problem we deal with every year. What happens to the yahoo that takes his ATV off the designated route?? Nothing, unless you are lucky enough to have an officer in that area and proof of it. How are new restrictions going to help without added enforcement muscle?

I personally would like to see fewer ATVs during the hunting seasons but I still want to be able to get from home to my hunting area using my ATV/Toyota. Maybe if we can limit traffic to major mountain roads we would realize the happy medium, we could drive to our general area and spend all day on foot without running into an ATV all day long!!
 

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